PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

LeHarrt91

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

IF there is one skill/morph that is really "open" in the Warden kit it would be the Frozen Retreat Morph of Frozen Gate. The base concept of laying out a series of area "traps" is nice and underutilized in ESO PVP. And it could be reworked in some manner to grant a "keep at distance" or "back off away from me" option for Magdens lack and other classes have.

Could be a Time Stop like stun upon area entry. It could be increasing snare as they try and run through the area culminating in a stun. Could be stun/knockback on entering the area. Lots of things here. Mix in some kind of Frost related motif for damage.

Somehow, someway we can't let the Magden lose their remote stun from Arctic Blast. Having an effective Class Stun is required.

Hmm interesting idea with Frozen Gate, maybe it could be a target based skill that sets the rune/gate under the target and stuns them and deals damage.
So one morph is bring target to you and the other is keep them where they are.

But i still feel Arctic Blast would be better as a ranged stun.

ESO_Nightingale

Today I changed the rework idea based on feedback I received. Take a look.

Canned_Apples

That sounds like a fun ability. But most community created ones do.

However.... setting the other enemies hit Off Balance is oped and redundant.
Wardens already have access to Off Balance.

ESO_Nightingale

Canned_Apples wrote: »

That sounds like a fun ability. But most community created ones do.

However.... setting the other enemies hit Off Balance is oped and redundant.
Wardens already have access to Off Balance.

Read it again. It stuns off balance enemies.

Muskrap

Alternatively you could just add the stuns offbalance targets to shalks and you can keep artic blast the same instead of adding multiple conditions to have a somewhat reliable stun

Muskrap

Because how it is and their conditional stuns isnt good game design. When you're in pvp and you need a stun you need a stun now. Magden right now on the pts cant use lightning staff because we need to use flame clench to get any amount of distance off. Flame clench being the ONLY RELIABLE STUN is terrible for everything in the magden toolkit. Meaning our abilities are all working against themselves. Artic blast adopting the full quality of Permafrosts stun was a dumb idea as far as that being our only class stun. If we had multiple options and artic blast happened to be one of those options. it wouldnt be a bad thing. But right now, you cant stay close enough to ranged classes. Stam classes that can dodge can easily kite you so you cant stun them, and overall its just a bad stun design. Its one of those things that you look at and say "oh thats pretty cool" and then go back to what actually works.

Rhaegar75

Right guys...you’ve got to help me out here.

My main PvP chars are Templars but lately I’ve been giving Stamdens a go. Due to being a noob for this class, I’ve relied on Dizzy for stuns and damage.

Obviously this is now history!!!

Can any of you suggest any build that doesn’t involve using dizzy? Checked online and most builds include it!
Thanks

Arjuna1696

Winter's Revenge -was- an excellent skill! It created class identity and had a great visual effect (especially paired with unstable wall w/ flame destro staff!). It's really sad that it's now too expensive and weak to deserve a slot on my bar.

LeHarrt91

Arjuna1696 wrote: »

Winter's Revenge -was- an excellent skill! It created class identity and had a great visual effect (especially paired with unstable wall w/ flame destro staff!). It's really sad that it's now too expensive and weak to deserve a slot on my bar.

Yep nerfed 2 patches in a row. Mystic Orb is better.

ExistingRug61

I do like the concept of warden being the "combo" class with in class synergy between abilities. I would prefer to see the class have multiple conditional CC conditions rather than one simple unconditional one as this would keep a bit of uniqueness to the class. Especially if the conditional nature is based around something like the chilled status as that is already in the warden theme. But there would definitely need to be more than one that work in best in different scenarios to make up for the fact that they are conditional.

Something like:
For close range/defense: While active, Artic blast stuns anyone who hits you with a melee attack if they are chilled.
For ranged/offense: Winters revenge stuns on the initial hit if the target was already chilled, or birds stuns on hit if the target is already chilled.

Now, these would be primarily useful to Magden as it makes the most use of chilled, so there would need to be other options for Stamden if it needs it (not sure if it does though).

ESO_Nightingale

Muskrap wrote: »

Because how it is and their conditional stuns isnt good game design. When you're in pvp and you need a stun you need a stun now. Magden right now on the pts cant use lightning staff because we need to use flame clench to get any amount of distance off. Flame clench being the ONLY RELIABLE STUN is terrible for everything in the magden toolkit. Meaning our abilities are all working against themselves. Artic blast adopting the full quality of Permafrosts stun was a dumb idea as far as that being our only class stun. If we had multiple options and artic blast happened to be one of those options. it wouldnt be a bad thing. But right now, you cant stay close enough to ranged classes. Stam classes that can dodge can easily kite you so you cant stun them, and overall its just a bad stun design. Its one of those things that you look at and say "oh thats pretty cool" and then go back to what actually works.

i removed the conditional stun idea. additional stuns are conditional however. this was the updated version:


We need more damage skills and this idea fixes many of our pain points. They could just make fissure stun off balance targets. but this idea shows what is possible and that we could have a new damage skill that synergises with existing skills.

However i did try to read between the lines with the new pts patch and noticed some odd wording concerning what might happen with stacking both major breach and fracture together. they could already have "stuns off balance targets" planned for deep fissure. we don't know.

LeHarrt91

So with the change to Permafrost, 70% snare and 100% chilled. The effects of Winters Revenge are pointless (30% snare, and increased chance to apply chilled) and you nerfed damage and cost twice in a row.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

So with the change to Permafrost, 70% snare and 100% chilled. The effects of Winters Revenge are pointless (30% snare, and increased chance to apply chilled) and you nerfed damage and cost twice in a row.

yeah actually it's just a better version of winter's revenge lmao you're right

ESO_Nightingale

Arjuna1696 wrote: »

Winter's Revenge -was- an excellent skill! It created class identity and had a great visual effect (especially paired with unstable wall w/ flame destro staff!). It's really sad that it's now too expensive and weak to deserve a slot on my bar.

i don't see how it created class identity when it was the most boring ground aoe. It's special effect isn't unique because of glacial presence. and adding it to the AoE legit defeats the purpose of the passive. it also had a 30% snare when eruption retains the 70% snare. and we don't even gain any unique benefit from chilled anyway. just increased proc chances. The only thing it did was look cool.

Lughlongarm

Potential issues with "Artic Blast"

1. Scales with "Master At Arms" other than "Thaumaturge"
2. Chill proc chance seems a bit low(with Glacial Presence and Elemental Force)

x48rph

Omg, so your nerfing permafrost to only half the damage after already removing the stun from it. So like why not just remove it because it's pretty much useless now. And on top of it, your removing the passive max magicka from the other morph as well. Like WTF? Why do you hate magicka wardens so much. They were already pretty much bottom of the bucket in dps since inception and now that will just make it worse.

xWarbrain

Can anyone justify the change to Northern Storm?

I can't.

Not gonna get mad about the ridiculous & unnecessary nerfs this patch promises so far. Probably just gonna shelf the Magden for a while.

At least you guys got the DPS added to Arctic Blast you had to have. Good job. Way to improve the class.

SpiderKnight

casparian

x48rph wrote: »

Omg, so your nerfing permafrost to only half the damage after already removing the stun from it. So like why not just remove it because it's pretty much useless now.

Name another ult that is more useful for pushing into an enemy group that outnumbers you in PVP. Name anything else in the game that give your entire group 12 seconds of Major Protection and a PBAOE Minor Maim on enemies.

cheifsoap

It seems like this change is really limiting the use of an ulti. The only scenario where this ulti is useful is pvp as a "support" skill. Holistically, it seems like a real weak ulti compared to other ulti's now.

Kolzki

Northern Storm (morph):

• The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate.
• Increased the amount of Magicka granted to 9% from 8%.
• This morph now ranks up in 2% Max Magicka granted per rank, up to 15% at Rank I, rather than 1.1% damage done per rank.

So northern storm will now add max magicka while your current magicka won't increase, meaning that you get extra damage but effectively no longer get an increased resource pool? That's a bit weird.

xWarbrain

You get the increased resource pool for 30 seconds after (and during) the use of Northern Storm.

casparian

Kolzki wrote: »

Northern Storm (morph):

• The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate.
• Increased the amount of Magicka granted to 9% from 8%.
• This morph now ranks up in 2% Max Magicka granted per rank, up to 15% at Rank I, rather than 1.1% damage done per rank.

So northern storm will now add max magicka while your current magicka won't increase, meaning that you get extra damage but effectively no longer get an increased resource pool? That's a bit weird.

It's a bigger damage bonus with a longer duration and it now applies to both bars. Seems like a buff.

jypcy

casparian wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Northern Storm (morph):

• The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate.
• Increased the amount of Magicka granted to 9% from 8%.
• This morph now ranks up in 2% Max Magicka granted per rank, up to 15% at Rank I, rather than 1.1% damage done per rank.

So northern storm will now add max magicka while your current magicka won't increase, meaning that you get extra damage but effectively no longer get an increased resource pool? That's a bit weird.

It's a bigger damage bonus with a longer duration and it now applies to both bars. Seems like a buff.

Idk, did people actually cast this skill before? As a pve magden it was better to front bar it for the passive damage boost and use meteor/destro on the backbar, assuming you chose to forgo the bear. For pvp I thought permafrost was the de facto morph choice. You’re right that it’s a buff to the skill’s power when cast, but I’m not convinced yet that it’s worth casting as opposed to other ults.

xWarbrain

30 seconds is not a longer duration than always.

Kolzki

jypcy wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Northern Storm (morph):

• The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate.
• Increased the amount of Magicka granted to 9% from 8%.
• This morph now ranks up in 2% Max Magicka granted per rank, up to 15% at Rank I, rather than 1.1% damage done per rank.

So northern storm will now add max magicka while your current magicka won't increase, meaning that you get extra damage but effectively no longer get an increased resource pool? That's a bit weird.

It's a bigger damage bonus with a longer duration and it now applies to both bars. Seems like a buff.

Idk, did people actually cast this skill before? As a pve magden it was better to front bar it for the passive damage boost and use meteor/destro on the backbar, assuming you chose to forgo the bear. For pvp I thought permafrost was the de facto morph choice. You’re right that it’s a buff to the skill’s power when cast, but I’m not convinced yet that it’s worth casting as opposed to other ults.

For PVE this does at least clearly answer the question of which ult to place front bar to go with a destro ult back bar.

Casul

After reviewing the changes for permafrost and northern storm on 5.2.2 I really wish there was some stamina utility for northern storm if it is intended to be the damage morph. Currently there was no point in using it over permafrost on live as a stamden, now with permafrost getting a 50% damage cut I will likely be forced to use the other, weaker in my case, morph.

rothtwinsdad

jypcy wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Northern Storm (morph):

• The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate.
• Increased the amount of Magicka granted to 9% from 8%.
• This morph now ranks up in 2% Max Magicka granted per rank, up to 15% at Rank I, rather than 1.1% damage done per rank.

So northern storm will now add max magicka while your current magicka won't increase, meaning that you get extra damage but effectively no longer get an increased resource pool? That's a bit weird.

It's a bigger damage bonus with a longer duration and it now applies to both bars. Seems like a buff.

Idk, did people actually cast this skill before? As a pve magden it was better to front bar it for the passive damage boost and use meteor/destro on the backbar, assuming you chose to forgo the bear. For pvp I thought permafrost was the de facto morph choice. You’re right that it’s a buff to the skill’s power when cast, but I’m not convinced yet that it’s worth casting as opposed to other ults.

I use Northern on live for the 8% passive but also cast it for major protection, not sure if I like the change or not. Haven't used Permafrost since the stun was removed.

Skjaldbjorn

And Wardens continue to get shafted. I really, really don't grasp these changes. In PVE, Wardens will continue to struggle because Zos just really doesn't seem to care lol. Everything to help Wardens is always "in a future patch" and tags along with nerfs that equalize or crush whatever benefit we're getting.

None of the concerns have been addressed. Everything meaningful a Warden can give in PVE is provided by supports. Warden DPS are still substandard.

At least give us back the 3% from the AC passive until you fix this garbage. This is absolutely unacceptable.

LeHarrt91

Im ok with the Perma nerf, it was a bit overloaded, and as they said its intended to be the defensive/ tank morph.

The Northern change has me intrigued, 30s of 15% max magicka and 17% if you frontbar Ice Comet... thats a lot of magicka, sure its not passive 8% but unless you double barred it, it was never up 100% as you have to bar swap anyway.