Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?

dvonpm

Reverb wrote: »

On PC NA we saw a bit of shakeup the first week of multibidding but we were spared the chaos that zeni inflicted on our EU brethren. Week 2 saw things pretty much return to normal at he highest end of the spectrum and the majority of well known guilds are in their typical spots. One high end trader usually in an Undaunted town is without a trader for the second consecutive week and is rumored to be hemorrhaging members, and understandably so with their leadership having failed to bid appropriately for their normal spot or for backups in the initial weeks of the new system.

Fair points, but just to put your comments in perspective - by bid appropriately, you mean bid the 300% or more overnight increase instead of the anticipated 200% increase.

Things will settle and prices will increase - they always do and it's expected and even necessary. But right now I'm trying and failing to convince myself that this runway train is really a fun ride that I want to pay to go on. Reasons about why the runaway train is just great are just not super compelling to me right now.

OsManiaC

jazsper77 wrote: »

Founding GM on 2 platforms and 2 servers, never charged a FEE for any of my Guilds EVER. Since the system went live way back when the combined total of weeks with no Trader 16. That includes both servers. I spend less then 2hrs a week on GM duties and my officers 1hr a week. All guilds at 480-500 members. The problem is on bad GM’s on EGO trips .

GM’s who complain about the new system are just wanting their cake and eat it too. But let’s see why these GM’s ave so-called no lives.

1. Bidding where you can’t afford to bid. ( that’s not ZOS fault) That’s a GM’s EGO wanting to hang with the big boys.

2. Time- If your spending so much time with Raffles,50/50,Auctions,etc. Again it goes back to trying to raise funds for bids you can’t sustain. Again not ZOS Fault.

3. Type of Guild- Don’t promote your Guild as a Social,Trails,Vampire,WW,etc and try to Bleed your members dry for a Trader. They didn’t join for the Trader. If your promoted your Guild as a Top 10 trading Guild then anyone joining knows the cost of business up front.

4. Keeping up with the Joneses- you see this is really a big issue for a lot of GM’s and Officers of large Guilds. They think they have this special status that all these people rely on them for everything ESO. Get over yourselves! It’s a fake world with fake money.

In conclusion it’s the GM’s and officers who put a lot of the crap on themselves. As a Gm/officer you should be focusing on the Guild itself. Do lorebook runs,Skyshard runs, Guild member house contests, Naked Cyrodiil Zergs, Drunk Dungeon/Trial runs, Guild Fashion contests, World Boss Zone runs. Hence if you make your guild fun and not a job the funds will come.

If you keep pounding your members with Doom and Gloom then it’s shame on you.

I read all of your text, twice. Best of luck. there is no chance we can meet in any point. Hope ZOS will not think same as you.

Dont_do_drugs

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I'm already having my plan b. I just wait till most guilds went rip and bankrupt due to brain dead bids, wait till a lot of cash left the game and make a comeback in 2 years with my backups from pre-u23. If that doesnt happen then an inflation still went on I will continue to stay away from the game. Win-win

Miss your stuff on disc xxx

woot. me? nobody misses me. keep ur libido calm my friend.

StabbityDoom

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

I'm an officer in a large trading guild in a Capital City, and I had to talk myself of quitting being an officer in a very well run and stable guild after 4+ years.

This is untenable. It already takes several people doing part time jobs (and loads of donations from generous guildies) and this system has just made it worse. Why am I working for a game I pay for? Why am I paying for this exactly? Why do I need this kind of stress for a hobby?

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

I don't know. I'm normally a person with a good attitude and bidding wars have never bothered me like this, but we had some control over it in the past. This is just - I don't even know what it is but I have never had to walk away from the game from anger before.

I don't have high blood pressure, but this is going to give it to me, and life is already too short for this kind of stress in what should be fun. That's where I am at. I can deal with this for another week or two but after that, I'm probably out.

I honestly think that this will settle down in a couple of weeks. In time, there will be less "fake" or "weak" guilds able to sustain bigger bids and get up the food chain with their meagre offerings. They will run out of funds.

In the end your best bet would be to borrow some funds from your whales (such as they are) to cover making ten bids, then return the funds when you get those 9 bids back. It'll sustain you to do that.

I hope things settle, and they normally do, which is why I don't usually sweat changes that much. In 4+ years we've weathered a lot of changes and a lot of bidding wars - this is definitely not our first rodeo. It's not that I don't think we can survive, it's that it increasingly just feels like being jerked around. It's not about a specific guild, it's about an unmanageable system that is wearing on my considerable good will.

I'm just very close to my breaking point with the lack of tools to manage guilds and the expectation that paying customers also must work part time jobs spending hours doing things computers can do in seconds. Now with even more free stress and opportunities for interpersonal conflict, yay

That's always irked me about this game, but I have never actually been to the point where I just want to quit because of it. And I am almost there.

And I am not even remotely on board with asking for loans. Or with calling people whales like a used car salesman The people in my guild are people I mostly like and respect. I'm not interested in thinking of them as payday lenders. This is a game and a hobby, why on earth would I want to add "getting loans from people" to the list of things to worry about and make spreadsheets for? Hard pass.

I consider myself a whale - and offered my money as loans to carry my guild or two through. I don't think of it as demeaning or insulting a term. There's just some people with a lot of money who are usually willing and able to help, and that's a possible option (although I understand, not for you.) Please don't take it like I'm a used car salesman or don't think of them (me) as people.

Kidgangster101

dvonpm wrote: »

I'm an officer in a large trading guild in a Capital City, and I had to talk myself of quitting being an officer in a very well run and stable guild after 4+ years.

This is untenable. It already takes several people doing part time jobs (and loads of donations from generous guildies) and this system has just made it worse. Why am I working for a game I pay for? Why am I paying for this exactly? Why do I need this kind of stress for a hobby?

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

I don't know. I'm normally a person with a good attitude and bidding wars have never bothered me like this, but we had some control over it in the past. This is just - I don't even know what it is but I have never had to walk away from the game from anger before.

I don't have high blood pressure, but this is going to give it to me, and life is already too short for this kind of stress in what should be fun. That's where I am at. I can deal with this for another week or two but after that, I'm probably out.

And to your points of this game is a hobby I fully agree. Many others do not though...... I have recommended a global AH for a very very long time. You don't need bidding wars, you don't need to have a trading guild, every guild is just social and everyone can enjoy the AH not just a select percent of the game. Most people don't trade because the time it takes to farm items to meet quotas like again it is a part time/full time job to play a game you should have fun on. Idk why we are using a primitative system in the year 2019....... We have the technology to make life easier but yet a lot of people don't want it lol.

dvonpm

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

I'm an officer in a large trading guild in a Capital City, and I had to talk myself of quitting being an officer in a very well run and stable guild after 4+ years.

This is untenable. It already takes several people doing part time jobs (and loads of donations from generous guildies) and this system has just made it worse. Why am I working for a game I pay for? Why am I paying for this exactly? Why do I need this kind of stress for a hobby?

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

I don't know. I'm normally a person with a good attitude and bidding wars have never bothered me like this, but we had some control over it in the past. This is just - I don't even know what it is but I have never had to walk away from the game from anger before.

I don't have high blood pressure, but this is going to give it to me, and life is already too short for this kind of stress in what should be fun. That's where I am at. I can deal with this for another week or two but after that, I'm probably out.

I honestly think that this will settle down in a couple of weeks. In time, there will be less "fake" or "weak" guilds able to sustain bigger bids and get up the food chain with their meagre offerings. They will run out of funds.

In the end your best bet would be to borrow some funds from your whales (such as they are) to cover making ten bids, then return the funds when you get those 9 bids back. It'll sustain you to do that.

I hope things settle, and they normally do, which is why I don't usually sweat changes that much. In 4+ years we've weathered a lot of changes and a lot of bidding wars - this is definitely not our first rodeo. It's not that I don't think we can survive, it's that it increasingly just feels like being jerked around. It's not about a specific guild, it's about an unmanageable system that is wearing on my considerable good will.

I'm just very close to my breaking point with the lack of tools to manage guilds and the expectation that paying customers also must work part time jobs spending hours doing things computers can do in seconds. Now with even more free stress and opportunities for interpersonal conflict, yay

That's always irked me about this game, but I have never actually been to the point where I just want to quit because of it. And I am almost there.

And I am not even remotely on board with asking for loans. Or with calling people whales like a used car salesman The people in my guild are people I mostly like and respect. I'm not interested in thinking of them as payday lenders. This is a game and a hobby, why on earth would I want to add "getting loans from people" to the list of things to worry about and make spreadsheets for? Hard pass.

I consider myself a whale - and offered my money as loans to carry my guild or two through. I don't think of it as demeaning or insulting a term. There's just some people with a lot of money who are usually willing and able to help, and that's a possible option (although I understand, not for you.) Please don't take it like I'm a used car salesman or don't think of them (me) as people.

Sure thing I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just frustrated right now, it will pass. We definitely have super generous members. They are how we can keep our mins well below the actual cost per member and not have to lay down the law about meeting them.

We aren't anywhere near that point financially, we've prepared for this. It's just stressful and annoying.

marius_buys

The bid amount has tripled, we are lucky to have deep'ish pockets but it's completely unsustainable. Mid level traders are hit hard and new ir small guilds dont have any chance. We need an auction house, ghere are simply not enough trader kiosks.

daemonios

What I see is a lot of people reacting negatively to actual competition for traders. Everything was fine as long as the same guilds got the same spots week in, week out. But isn't the current state of affairs what weekly trader auctions were supposed to be all about? Then again what do I know, I've always favoured a global AH (with some measures in place to mitigate market cornering/speculative sales) and I haven't joined a trading guild since coming back from a long break.

Katahdin

I'm not a GM but one of my guilds lost its spot that it's had since traders started both of the last 2 weeks

Now the officers have to deal with unhappy and/or worried members asking if the guild is dying, if there is a plan, blah blah

This has created unnecessary chaos for no good reason whatsoever.

Jayman1000

dvonpm wrote: »

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

Isn't this simply competition? The competition did better than you. How annoying it may be is it not simply a case of they won, you lost?

dvonpm

Jayman1000 wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

Isn't this simply competition? The competition did better than you. How annoying it may be is it not simply a case of they won, you lost?

No.

As I said, I've been doing this for 4+ years (probably 5 now, actually) and have weathered all manner of changes and fierce competition. As I also said, I don't normally sweat changes and I don't normally sweat bidding wars because at this point we are well-prepared for them. Further, do you honestly think guilds that maintain their spots through thick and thin for YEARS aren't being competitive?

What is frustrating me now is the increase in competition (and inevitable conflict) not being coupled with any real tools for guild management. And also the random breaking the ones we we could use.

I am frustrated at the expectation that their paying customers do their work for them and that the problem isn't getting better, as I hoped it would with this new system. Because every time there's an increase in bids like this it means more more work, more gold, more time, less actual gaming for guild management, etc.

For the first time since I have been an officer in these nearly 5 years, I am just actually getting seriously worn down by it.

And you don't know me, but please believe me when I say I am not a cynical person. I have an extremely high bs tolerance. I normally dislike whining. I love this game and community, warts and all. But I also am kind of at the end of my rope, that is all.

dvonpm

daemonios wrote: »

What I see is a lot of people reacting negatively to actual competition for traders. Everything was fine as long as the same guilds got the same spots week in, week out. But isn't the current state of affairs what weekly trader auctions were supposed to be all about? Then again what do I know, I've always favoured a global AH (with some measures in place to mitigate market cornering/speculative sales) and I haven't joined a trading guild since coming back from a long break.

Something to consider - that fact that traders keep their kiosks every week *is* a direct result of them being competitive. No one is handing them the kiosk. They earn it by doing what they need to keep it and it isn't an accident that guilds are where they are. There has always been *actual* competition.

Maybe that's hard to see from the outside and it just looks like guilds are entrenched or something, but we kind of need to be in order to provide reliable income to our members.

I would favor a global AH too, but I don't think that is going to be an option. At least not any time soon.

daemonios

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

What I see is a lot of people reacting negatively to actual competition for traders. Everything was fine as long as the same guilds got the same spots week in, week out. But isn't the current state of affairs what weekly trader auctions were supposed to be all about? Then again what do I know, I've always favoured a global AH (with some measures in place to mitigate market cornering/speculative sales) and I haven't joined a trading guild since coming back from a long break.

Something to consider - that fact that traders keep their kiosks every week *is* a direct result of them being competitive. No one is handing them the kiosk. They earn it by doing what they need to keep it and it isn't an accident that guilds are where they are. There has always been *actual* competition.

Maybe that's hard to see from the outside and it just looks like guilds are entrenched or something, but we kind of need to be in order to provide reliable income to our members.

I would favor a global AH too, but I don't think that is going to be an option. At least not any time soon.

That's not entirely right. Currently there are a number of guilds controlled by the same people, and alliances between different guilds, which agree on where each guild should have its trader and have an understanding that they won't try to poach each others' traders. That is the definition of a market failure. When the market actually starts working, the whining starts.

It's another case of art - or game, in this case - imitating life. For all the people singing the free market's praises, it's always better if you can have it work your way, isn't it?

The entire ESO trading system is a market failure, in fact. With a 500-person limit per guild, limited traders, potentially very high bids requiring large volumes of sales or fees, and the fact that some are far more sought after than others, many players either don't bother with trading, or do trade under vastly different conditions than others. Add to that the players who like to buy up all of certain fast-selling items and flip them for huge profit, and add-ons that - at least on PC - crawl the listings and post them publicly on a website, and you have yourself a trading system with all the flaws of a global AH and the additional flaws of a system that is limited and has unequal access.

But I suppose having the guild trader mini-game is more important for the ESO community as a whole than an actually functioning trading system.

Bam_Bam

ZoS preparing to clear the board of the cartel system and introduce the new Auction House and Market system.

anitajoneb17_ESO

dvonpm wrote: »

Something to consider - that fact that traders keep their kiosks every week *is* a direct result of them being competitive.

dvonpm wrote: »

Further, do you honestly think guilds that maintain their spots through thick and thin for YEARS aren't being competitive?

Guilds that have been holding the same premium spot for years now aren't being competitive. They're being coopted.
Market failure, as @daemonios pointed out.

martinhpb16_ESO

Any B and C tier GMs

daemonios wrote: »

What I see is a lot of people reacting negatively to actual competition for traders. Everything was fine as long as the same guilds got the same spots week in, week out. But isn't the current state of affairs what weekly trader auctions were supposed to be all about? Then again what do I know, I've always favoured a global AH (with some measures in place to mitigate market cornering/speculative sales) and I haven't joined a trading guild since coming back from a long break.

People aren't necessarily reacting they are reporting their experience and the very real things that are happening

martinhpb16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Something to consider - that fact that traders keep their kiosks every week *is* a direct result of them being competitive.

dvonpm wrote: »

Further, do you honestly think guilds that maintain their spots through thick and thin for YEARS aren't being competitive?

Guilds that have been holding the same premium spot for years now aren't being competitive. They're being coopted.
Market failure, as @daemonios pointed out.

Yes and as predicted the un-cooped mid and lower tiers are seeing the most impact.

agelonestar

One thing I will add: as @Luthid said elsewhere in this thread, the real killer for me as a guild manager and trader / member is the instability around trade and guild history.

That was a major factor in the retirement of some of the guilds that ceased trading (mentioned earlier). I also know several big traders (players) who have stopped because they simply can't be bothered with manually updating history, trying to fix gaps in history, and playing Russian roulette with prices.

From a GM's perspective, higher prices and history gaps is a flippin' nightmare on steroids.

martinhpb16_ESO

Jayman1000 wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

Isn't this simply competition? The competition did better than you. How annoying it may be is it not simply a case of they won, you lost?

No it is simply competition x 10, which is a bad thing. We had simply competition x 1 before multi-bidding when you could bid on one spot

Now with multi-bidding, especially mid to low tiers have more competition coming at them from above, below and sideways - which is a bad thing.

Multi-bidding has meant that guilds have to pay more, bid more, work more etc.

Its not simple competition like pvp its real people experiencing more admin, more work and stress with the same crappy tools.

daemonios

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Any B and C tier GMs

daemonios wrote: »

What I see is a lot of people reacting negatively to actual competition for traders. Everything was fine as long as the same guilds got the same spots week in, week out. But isn't the current state of affairs what weekly trader auctions were supposed to be all about? Then again what do I know, I've always favoured a global AH (with some measures in place to mitigate market cornering/speculative sales) and I haven't joined a trading guild since coming back from a long break.

People aren't necessarily reacting they are reporting their experience and the very real things that are happening

Reporting their experience is a form of reaction. And the reports have been mostly negative, though that's to be expected, as disgruntled players will tend to be more outspoken than ones who are happy. So what I said doesn't seem wrong to me, is it? What I was pointing out was the disconnect between reality and what supporters of the guild trader system usually say, i.e. that this system provides more competition, and is therefore better. Yet when the competition hits them in the behind, along come the "experience reports".

The fact is that the increased competition heavily weighs in favour of large trading guilds, affects smaller guilds without the budget to multi-bid to the same extent, and does nothing for buyers except possibly raise prices due to the increase in bids. At the same time, ZOS have been making life harder for trading guilds, turning guild history on and off, without actually addressing the performance issues. Anecdotally, I still often have to close the trader window and redo a search because the previous one times out with no results.

Vahrokh

Fiktius wrote: »

I still hate this multi-bidding system with my full heart.

And why is that so?

1) I've been aware how bids have already been at these playgrounds we call guild trader hubs.
Bids have been already nuts on PC EU platform for very long time before multi-bidding was even heard about first time.
Some tier B and tier C zones already had guilds fighting about locations, which bids can't be sustained with taxes only and guilds which had best donators/wealthiest GMs funding the bids weekly basis were able to secure their spots every time.
It's not unheard thing that several guild GMs were opening wallet over and over again in order to sustain bids and use crown store gifting system in order to win a week at their desired trader location, when they had no other option to fight against massive bids which were already unreasonably high compared to the zone value.
And now when multi-bidding even increased bid values, situation went only towards worse direction.

2) And since multi-bidding increased bid prices, guilds of course had to adapt or die.
A friend of mine chose that she will not sacrifice any smaller guilds with back up system and two major guilds were disbanded because of this system. Thousand people lost a guild and had to search new one.
Another friend of mine decided that he got enough for this madness and he's done fighting against multi-bidding.
Guilds were handed over to another owner and this is sad, because another great person gave up and saw 0 sense to continue fighting against unfair system.
Personally I chose adapting option instead and we had to change requirements in all of my guilds in order to try to sustain massive bids. For two weeks we were successful, but with what kind of cost?
I lost several members for this change, but at the end I couldn't blame them. Guild finder provides excellent tool for them to find a new guild, jumping is easy like that. Guild loyalty doesn't mean much for several people in the game these days.
At the end they always knew at which direction is the door.

3)



Domino chain in full action. This has been very visible on our platform. Several guilds did get hit during last two weeks from the very same zone where I'm bidding too and they got knocked over to alternative back up spots they happened to have.
(If they were able to fund several bids at first place.)
Familiar guilds got entirely knocked out of the map from lowest tier locations, because of this very simple thing:
Having a spot is still better than having none. Guilds truly make sure that they try to estimate a value of the spot, which they can outbid in case they really have to fall down at lower tier locations. And this has been crystal clear in locations like Murkmire and Clock Work City. And this is disgusting to see, but it is what it is.
Apparently devs thought this is healthy thing for the game. Several smaller guilds gets knocked out every week because of the system which benefits wealthy guilds most.
Bigger guilds are more or less fine with their own spots at top tier locations, but smaller tier guilds have to take the bullet.

4) Guild managing is more stressful than ever. Since making sure that guild really can reach expected results, I'm using several hours with my co-lead at Friday - Saturday afternoon, when we just go through all our guilds member rosters and check how members performed during the week, who failed to do so and which of them deserves a reminder mail weekly basis.
This is ultimately frustrating, because we lack proper admin tools. We have to rely on manual noting and manually digging guild store sales from history in order to make sure we have updated sale numbers due ATT/MM scanning is not as smooth as it used to be before all these guild history changes. All of this takes us several hours, but it's a must thing to do if we want to have a chance to sustain our bids. And if this is painful for PC GMs, I truly feel sorry for console guilds which do not have addons at first place. You guys are true MVPs.

5)

My man, I really feel you!

JPS

So far for me this is going as I expected. I can make bids on traders I normally wouldn't risk because I do want to be sure of having a trader. The result is having a much better spot. Yes, at a much higher price but since I pay for the trader myself basicly, who cares…

I don't do alliances or cartels, I don't try to squeeze more gold out of my members with this new system as an excuse, I just do my thing. And that works out well for me and my guild.

FrancisCrawford

Obviously, there can be a lot more work for guildmasters because:

• Winning bids are up.
• Total amounts committed to make bids (winning and losing alike) are up a LOT.
• Guild members may need the confusing new reality explained to them.

Is anything ELSE in all this a big problem for GMs, or is that the essence of the pain?

martinhpb16_ESO

daemonios wrote: »

The fact is that the increased competition heavily weighs in favour of large trading guilds, affects smaller guilds without the budget to multi-bid to the same extent, and does nothing for buyers except possibly raise prices due to the increase in bids. At the same time, ZOS have been making life harder for trading guilds, turning guild history on and off, without actually addressing the performance issues. Anecdotally, I still often have to close the trader window and redo a search because the previous one times out with no results.

Agree with you absolutely

anitajoneb17_ESO

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes and as predicted the un-cooped mid and lower tiers are seeing the most impact.

Not necessarily...

JPS wrote: »

So far for me this is going as I expected. I can make bids on traders I normally wouldn't risk because I do want to be sure of having a trader. The result is having a much better spot. Yes, at a much higher price but since I pay for the trader myself basicly, who cares…

I don't do alliances or cartels, I don't try to squeeze more gold out of my members with this new system as an excuse, I just do my thing. And that works out well for me and my guild.

This^^

In any case it's far too early to make a definite statement on the general outcome of multibidding. We have to wait until things settle a bit. I'd say around Christmas.

@martinhpb16_ESO : I support your claims regarding the lacking/broken management tools, though.

Dont_do_drugs

JPS wrote: »

So far for me this is going as I expected. I can make bids on traders I normally wouldn't risk because I do want to be sure of having a trader. The result is having a much better spot. Yes, at a much higher price but since I pay for the trader myself basicly, who cares…

I don't do alliances or cartels, I don't try to squeeze more gold out of my members with this new system as an excuse, I just do my thing. And that works out well for me and my guild.

It works as long as ure having the gold in ur private pocket and are willing to earn it each week over and over again. It's the worst way to manage a guild. I saw, a lot of gm working like that, but it will break their guilds at some point. Their members expect a better spot without beeing aware what that better spot costed and what they need to bring to keep that spot in an economic way. Once the gm bleed out he has only the chance to downgrade back on a lower spot and risking to pss his members off with some leaving bcs they were used to a better location or to accept he is bankrupt or accept that its not making u happy Ingame working ur butt off for the bids of ur guild. After all I saw a lot of guilds come and go with that concept. Most of them ended in the middle of nowhere with exhausted, bankrupt and frustrated gm. Pc EU had a couple of such guilds, only one survived, but only by the gm buying gold with real money.

generalmyrick

OsManiaC wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

You don't need fees, the EU guys sound like they want their piece of the pie finally!

Gratz mate, you successed then. but I dont think you represent majority. Not think, sure of it.

I was bidding 5m+ before u23 taxes was max 1m+

after u23, I bid 9m+ with same spots and same sales, second week I bid same and lost one

I know majority increased bids. tell me mate how can it go if you cannot increase taxes???

please don't tell me to change spots.

Sorry, sir, it appears my guild is super small. We don't share the same problems.

Best of luck to you.

Buuuut, I have always wanted more gold to go to guilds from sales...

generalmyrick

LMar wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

I'm an officer in a large trading guild in a Capital City, and I had to talk myself of quitting being an officer in a very well run and stable guild after 4+ years.

This is untenable. It already takes several people doing part time jobs (and loads of donations from generous guildies) and this system has just made it worse. Why am I working for a game I pay for? Why am I paying for this exactly? Why do I need this kind of stress for a hobby?

I don't, and I hate it. I can't even use the words to describe how frustrated I am. We are getting it from those trying to move up and those getting pushed out of their usual spots.

I don't know. I'm normally a person with a good attitude and bidding wars have never bothered me like this, but we had some control over it in the past. This is just - I don't even know what it is but I have never had to walk away from the game from anger before.

I don't have high blood pressure, but this is going to give it to me, and life is already too short for this kind of stress in what should be fun. That's where I am at. I can deal with this for another week or two but after that, I'm probably out.

This.

THIS is the system zos loves and many defend to the point of absurdity.

Dont_do_drugs

generalmyrick wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

You don't need fees, the EU guys sound like they want their piece of the pie finally!

Gratz mate, you successed then. but I dont think you represent majority. Not think, sure of it.

I was bidding 5m+ before u23 taxes was max 1m+

after u23, I bid 9m+ with same spots and same sales, second week I bid same and lost one

I know majority increased bids. tell me mate how can it go if you cannot increase taxes???

please don't tell me to change spots.

Sorry, sir, it appears my guild is super small. We don't share the same problems.

Best of luck to you.

Buuuut, I have always wanted more gold to go to guilds from sales...

U need to add to that things osman said, that the spots he had been outbid weren't top tier spots and that he wasnt overdoing the spot in relation to the guilds performance. He was already bidding more than the spot was worth with a guild which fit that spot.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

He was already bidding more than the spot was worth with a guild which fit that spot.

What do you mean by "more than the spot was worth" ?
Any spot is "worth" what a guild is ready to pay for it (supply and demand).
If you'd rather go by "the tax income the spot can achieve to self-sustain itself", then all spots are being paid "more than they're worth", since most guilds don't self-sustain on taxes alone, with or without multibidding.

What a "trader spot is worth" is mostly an image constructed by the current leading conglomerates of trading guilds to serve their own purposes, like "if you wanna shop efficiently, come to us in Belkarth/Mournhold/Wayrest/Rawl". Hopefully with the multibidding system things will spread out more and people will realize it's just as good to shop in Evermore, Sentinel or Coldharbour.