Does anyone actually buy into the AddOn blame game?

Browiseth

No, that's just silly

i don't believe that add ons that only affect the UI can have a significant effect on performance, no.

this is a scapegoat and a half

todokete

Yes, curse them AddOns and their game breaking thingamajiggers

This game going to be shutting down their servers before 2020

code65536

Browiseth wrote: »

i don't believe that add ons that only affect the UI can have a significant effect on performance, no.

Of course not. But not all addons are like that.

The vast majority addons that people are familiar with run entirely locally and generate no server load. UI addons, combat addons, etc.

And it seems like people in this thread are thinking of those types of addons when they evaluate Gina's statement. But those aren't the kinds of addons that ZOS is referring to.

But addons that request data from the server do generate server load. These can range from well-known high-usage addons like MM, which builds its data by periodically requesting sales history from the server, to niche addons like those used by trade guild GMs to track bank deposits.

psypanda

No, that's just silly

Vapirko wrote: »

I mean for the most part no. But I’ve youve got master merchant sending queries every few seconds in Cyrodiil and a bunch of out of date addons then yes you’re going to see a performance drop. If you’re smart about minimizing your use of addons and research/test the best ones then it’s probably having minimal to no impact.

pls elaborate how an "outdated addon" impacts performance
you seem to have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
what you call an outdated addon is simply an addon that didnt increase the api version number in the manifest file for the current patch. IF there are changes to the functions provided by the API the addon uses will just break and/or throw an error.

Browiseth

No, that's just silly

code65536 wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

i don't believe that add ons that only affect the UI can have a significant effect on performance, no.

Of course not. But not all addons are like that.

The vast majority addons that people are familiar with run entirely locally and generate no server load. UI addons, combat addons, etc.

And it seems like people in this thread are thinking of those types of addons when they evaluate Gina's statement. But those aren't the kinds of addons that ZOS is referring to.

But addons that request data from the server do generate server load. These can range from well-known high-usage addons like MM, which builds its data by periodically requesting sales history from the server, to niche addons like those used by trade guild GMs to track bank deposits.

@code65536 i have my doubts that even add ons like MM can realistically be blamed for significant performance issues is the thing

i don't think it's unreasonable to think that after 5+ years of changes the game's coding has gotten bloated and inefficient; makes sense, since zos have said they plan to reduce the game's file size to address this as i understand

vonScuzzman

It's easy enough to test; just turn off all the API feeds for a week.

GhostofDatthaw

No, that's just silly

I play with only 2 add-ons now, inventory insight and dressing room. Still haz probZ

Jayman1000

No, that's just silly

It's silly to blame addons; it's the eso framework/api or what you call it, that is the culprit if there is problems with server performance seemingly stemming from addons.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No, that's just silly

vonScuzzman wrote: »

It's easy enough to test; just turn off all the API feeds for a week.

No need to, we can look at X-Box and PS4 to see if Add-Ons are the cause, because they don't have Add-Ons.

Now, as consoles are having such great performance... ...oh, wait...

Yeah, Add-Ons NOT THE CAUSE.


All The Best

Haenk

Other, you see what happened was ...

I honestly believe Guild Trader addons put Incredible stress onto their database, probably way more than they expected.
But - they didn't implement anything the like (which might reduce stress due to direct database access), so it's eventually their fault.

Elsonso

No, that's just silly

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm curious, how many actually believe the official explanation of putting the blame for Sundays mayhem squarely on the back of community provided AddOns?

Not only is it silly, but ZOS would agree. They are not blaming add-ons. If you read what they say, disabling the sales history was the easiest way to get things working but it is not a permanent thing.

Vandril

No, that's just silly

Preface: This is coming from someone who hasn't even felt the effects of any of these problems in the past week. This isn't based on some sort of personal bias due to my being annoyed at ZOS for the problems, because I'm not at all. This is just basic logic.

______________

ZOS is in charge of both the servers and the addon API. It wouldn't matter even if addons alone induced enough server load to cause problems. ZOS can very well:

1) Get better servers. Problem solved.

or

2) Limit addon requests to the server. Problem solved.

Blaming addons for overworking the servers when they fully control the addon API and are fully capable of affording better servers is silly. That would be like blaming the players for causing server stress by playing your game if your servers are suffering overpopulation. It's your fault, game company, not the players'. It's on you to fix it, game company, not the players.

Bottom line: Yes, addons definitely do have a dramatic effect on server performance. No, it's certainly not the players'/addon authors' responsibility to avoid this. The ultimate cause is ZOS not handling their own responsibilities as well as they should.

GarnetFire17

Other, you see what happened was ...

I am sure the addons are AN issue, but I don't think its THE ISSUE. So many bugs have been made over the years that have nothing to so with addons. At this point I am sure everyone knows that addons are the convenient excuse.

MornaBaine

No, that's just silly

I'm just trying to figure out why my Lost Treasure add-on isn't working when I'm not seeing any dependency issues.

StabbityDoom

No, that's just silly

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm curious, how many actually believe the official explanation of putting the blame for Sundays mayhem squarely on the back of community provided AddOns?

Dude. Thank you for doing this poll. Hopefully the right people see it.

idk

No, that's just silly

Technically they do not place the blame squarely on addons but essentially everything that puts a load on the PC.

What their comment really speaks to is their own incompetence with the design and management of this game. They poorly designed this game from the start leading to the pathetic state of this game at launch. While they have made some fixes since then Zos has also increased the load on the servers in other area which has brought us to where we are now. Matt Firor is the architect of this mess as he not only creates the vision of what Zos designs he also signs off on significant changes. I have hoped that some day he would rise to the requirements of his job but that day has not come yet.

Edit: BTW, Addons are part of the design Zos implemented. They ditched the full feature UI they originally designed to allow players to build their own addons. They even asked for the player base to build these addons. So to partially blame the issue in addons directly supports my comments above.

Casterial

Other, you see what happened was ...

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm curious, how many actually believe the official explanation of putting the blame for Sundays mayhem squarely on the back of community provided AddOns?

So some addons actually do cause lag, MM and TTC both cause latency issues I've tested it

Ragnork

No, that's just silly

Both servers flip traders at peak time.
If addon load is contributing to the issue then I would expect to see similar issues in both servers.

PC NA - no issue
PC EU - falls over

I suspect there is something deeper behind the issue, related to server load and performance; this has in a round about way be acknowledged by ZOS in that they are looking to "optimise" their coding.
I hope they succeed. This is a great game that deserves to thrive.
Meanwhile, let us not forget, they are killing it (I believe that is a quote from one of their twitch love-ins)

MornaBaine

No, that's just silly

It would be nice if ZOS didn't depend on outside unpaid help to make their game remotely enjoyable, you know? Let's talk about housing permissions and travel. For starters. Let's talk about the MESS that is their guild trader system. Both things that, to be at all enjoyable, REQUIRE add-ons. If not for add-ons I wouldn't be playing this game at all. And I still resent that I need them to begin with.

driosketch

No, that's just silly

Bidding cuts off is an hour before hand, and the flip itself takes like 1-5 mintues. It doesn't mean there aren't ever any bugs, looking at you Outlaw Refuge traders, but that should be enough time for the bid tallies to resolve.

Inklings

No, that's just silly

First thing highlighted in the monthly Community Spot light after being told they crashed the EU server is.... You guessed it! ADDONS! So laughable you couldnt make this stuff up.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56847?utm_content=01 Zenimax Online Studios&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Community&sf107540035=1

StabbityDoom

No, that's just silly

Inklings wrote: »

First thing highlighted in the monthly Community Spot light after being told they crashed the EU server is.... You guessed it! ADDONS! So laughable you couldnt make this stuff up.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56847?utm_content=01 Zenimax Online Studios&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Community&sf107540035=1

Right hand, please meet left hand. You should coordinate.

merevie

No, that's just silly

Everyone's addon on the whole faction crashed at the exact same moment over 10 times per hour, for several days?
When half the server cannot play with any and even try offline mode?

Jaimeh

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS is in charge of the AddOn API.
Couldn't they measure AddOn generated traffic?
Have a detailed analysis of what AddOns do, when and how?
Have predictions on what kind of traffic to expect by looking at historical usage?
Throttle AddOn traffic if it starts to impact the game server performance?

Are you asking in earnest...

ArchMikem

Yes, curse them AddOns and their game breaking thingamajiggers

3rd party programs that ZOS doesn't officially develop the game to be compatible with, yeah I can see the logic. The Addon creators need to make sure their stuff works with the game, not the other way around.

Ragnork

No, that's just silly

ArchMikem wrote: »

3rd party programs that ZOS doesn't officially develop the game to be compatible with, yeah I can see the logic. The Addon creators need to make sure their stuff works with the game, not the other way around.

PC EU vs PC NA - why not both servers together?

Marcus684

ArchMikem wrote: »

3rd party programs that ZOS doesn't officially develop the game to be compatible with, yeah I can see the logic. The Addon creators need to make sure their stuff works with the game, not the other way around.

They’re not blaming the addons. They’re blaming the server traffic, including that from addons.

Aurie

No, that's just silly

Do addons not affect performance client-side?

If so, ZOS must know this and are just looking to pass the buck.

NeillMcAttack

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'm just trying to figure out why my Lost Treasure add-on isn't working when I'm not seeing any dependency issues.

@MornaBaine this is happening a lot of people. Just check your filters on the right of your map screen. Maps are likely turned off.

wavingblue

No, that's just silly

Marcus684 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

3rd party programs that ZOS doesn't officially develop the game to be compatible with, yeah I can see the logic. The Addon creators need to make sure their stuff works with the game, not the other way around.

They’re not blaming the addons. They’re blaming the server traffic, including that from addons.

If that's true and soooooooooo bad.. So bad that it completely trashes their new trader flip code and descends the EU server farm into chaos why not disable BEFORE doing the flip? Disabling right now makes no change to the chaos that is EU. It has not fixed anything. All it does is further hamper all PC players. Add-ons didn't magically add a metric *** ton at peak from Saturday evening 24 hours before trader flip until Sunday evening at the trader flip time. They knew the issue was present and it could be a problem but charged ahead anyways.