Trader swap issue - EU server

Gandrhulf_Harbard

SirAndy wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ZOS did it on a Sunday when there was likely nobody around to act if necessary

We have an unwritten rule in the industry:
"Never ever release any software and/or updates on or right before a weekend"

That means your patch/update release window should really only be Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
Might squeeze in Thursday if your are *very* confident about the release.

Friday, Saturday and Sunday are a huge NO, Just don't do it ...

And every industry professional knows that rule while unwritten is pretty much set in stone.

What does that say about the level of professionalism at ESO?

All The Best

DragonRacer

The walnuts are rolling around in here again, I see.

Kosbert

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

@ZOS_GinaBruno when do we got "details" ? The Economy is dead, a rollback would be a punch into the face of everyone who played in the last 24h. I know, you are just the Speaker for ZOS, but we want atleast an update.

SteveCampsOut

Kosbert wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

@ZOS_GinaBruno when do we got "details" ? The Economy is dead, a rollback would be a punch into the face of everyone who played in the last 24h. I know, you are just the Speaker for ZOS, but we want atleast an update.

People who spent billions in gold that they weren't supposed to get need to be "Punched In The Face". IMNSHO.

silvereyes

So, to sum up:

• The "quality of life" feature for kiosk bidding - that most feedback on PTS said they didn't want and urged ZOS to not release without major changes - ended up completely breaking the entire system and feeding billions of extra gold into the economy, per week, ex nihilo.
• The longer-term fix for the guild roster and history performance problems ended up bringing down EU yet again - even with the same throttles in place from last patch. So not only did it not improve the addon sales history situation, but it made server performance worse!

I wish I could say that I was surprised, but at this point, I'm honestly not.

I really don't know how many times the system has to catastrophically fail before ZOS realizes that the way they are handling the QA side of things isn't working at all. It's like, even after five years, they still don't realize that they need to load test a "massively multiplayer" game.

MLGProPlayer

idk wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

I agree. It is sad so few players take seriously testing updates on the PTS which is the only way a change like this can be tested properly. The lack of interest is a serious flaw in testing such changes and you are right to call out the player base for the poor testing that was done. Maybe next time we will get more interest and more will be tested.

This was something that was hard to test. You needed GMs to log onto the PTS (which is a very small group of players), and it could only be tested once a week (using that very tiny sample, since only a small portion of the already small GM population was on the PTS). Having said that, the bug didn't arise on the PTS for those that did test it. Even now, it only showed up on PC/EU (PC/NA was fine).

silvereyes

@ZOS_GinaBruno, to be clear, when people talk about "load testing", we don't mean announcing on the forums a few hours ahead of time "hey, everybody come join PTS to help us load test". We don't mean rolling out new code and waiting to see what breaks.

We mean something your QA team can run on their own using automated tools to stress the system: things like jmeter, gatling.io, selenium, redline13.com, etc.

I'm sure there are technical issues with making that happen. I'm sure there are tons of engineering reasons why it would be hard to do because of technical debt.

In the end, though, no technical reasons for why it hasn't happened before really matter. Five years, three chapters, eleven Crown Crate seasons and seventeen Crown Store exclusive houses later, there's no excuse for lacking such basic infrastructure.

marius_buys

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

I agree. It is sad so few players take seriously testing updates on the PTS which is the only way a change like this can be tested properly. The lack of interest is a serious flaw in testing such changes and you are right to call out the player base for the poor testing that was done. Maybe next time we will get more interest and more will be tested.

This was something that was hard to test. You needed GMs to log onto the PTS (which is a very small group of players), and it could only be tested once a week (using that very tiny sample, since only a small portion of the already small GM population was on the PTS). Having said that, the bug didn't arise on the PTS for those that did test it. Even now, it only showed up on PC/EU (PC/NA was fine).

Ever heard of software simulation? Quite commonly used to stress test a programme.

marius_buys

Thorvarg wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

Sorry, there is no rule or insurance against mistakes, or even incompetence, by Zenimax, but there are clear rules against exploits.

An exploit? I would accept a token of apology, yes.

KappaKid83

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

This is turning into a "stay tuned until we get back from our trip and hope you guys have forgotten about this failure" type of stay tuned...

SammiSakura

KappaKid83 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

This is turning into a "stay tuned until we get back from our trip and hope you guys have forgotten about this failure" type of stay tuned...

Yep I agree. Too busy off at Gamescon...

VaranisArano

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

Sorry, there is no rule or insurance against mistakes, or even incompetence, by Zenimax, but there are clear rules against exploits.

An exploit? I would accept a token of apology, yes.

Given that the exploiters were the ones spending the excessive refunds that they totally know were extra gold they shouldn't have gotten, I think they've gotten more than enough.

Daedric_NB_187

KappaKid83 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

This is turning into a "stay tuned until we get back from our trip and hope you guys have forgotten about this failure" type of stay tuned...

I'm not surprised considering we haven't even gotten the answers from their Q&A that they said would have been released last week.

But oh well. Business as usual for Zo$.

shaielzafine

So still no communication about the guild traders?

Mizael

For sure they won't do a rollback,It's too late... idk what they can even do at this point

therift

shaielzafine wrote: »

So still no communication about the guild traders?

You could ask the Game Director in person in Cologne on Saturday:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56631

"Join us on Saturday, August 24, to celebrate the Season of the Dragon, meet your fellow gamers, and discuss the state of ESO and its future with our developers."


That should be a very interesting discussion.

Rake

reoskit wrote: »

And we're back to blaming addons. Fabulous.

Allow me to remind you: the last time the guild history went insane and borked the game, ZOS blamed addons.

And the exact same issues happened on consoles... which do not have addons.

The reminder is required since ZOS unpinned their own thread, despite us requesting that the thread remained pinned as the issues had not been resolved.

But sure. Addons/players did this.

Edit: missing word.

I blame CP. We need non CP trading

The_Saint

therift wrote: »

shaielzafine wrote: »

So still no communication about the guild traders?

You could ask the Game Director in person in Cologne on Saturday:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56631

"Join us on Saturday, August 24, to celebrate the Season of the Dragon, meet your fellow gamers, and discuss the state of ESO and its future with our developers."


That should be a very interesting discussion.

I will be there and yes i will talk to them not only about sunday Guild trader also the complete EU server issue and communication...

tahol10069

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Like I didn't hate this trading system already. I can't frieking sell my little possessions because this game doesn't want me to. And no, I don't change to other guild because they all want even more money from me and have other conditions on top of that. It was hard to find a guild that didn't have mandatory donation OR sell requirement. I have still donated, even though I haven't been able to sell a thing in two weeks. I did because it is a decent thing to do, I think.

I seriously wonder why I bother. Oh, and not a single penny from me anymore. I cancelled my sub a minute ago. I don't normally even mention stuff like that, but now I'm REALLY pissed. Like I would pay for this disaster. But everything is peachy on NA, so who cares, right?

SWTOR will get an update next month. Maybe we will see again, maybe not. We will see if ZOS begins to value EU players too.

Cously

Are these prices accurate?

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade

SantieClaws

It is morning and still no further information?

Most unexpected yes and of significant concern.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

StabbityDoom

SantieClaws wrote: »

It is morning and still no further information?

Most unexpected yes and of significant concern.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

SantieClaws wrote: »

It is morning and still no further information?

Most unexpected yes and of significant concern.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Most expected. Don’t hold your breath for info until at least after their Germany trip.

Iluvrien

Cously wrote: »

Are these prices accurate?

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade

I just checked the traders around Vivec. Mostly for gold mats. It seems to be a mixed bag at the moment.

Looking at the bids placed in the last 2 days (29-30 days to go) there seem to be some people listing at the old prices... but also quite a few new ones that have marked up. Usually by about 2k/unit on the previous price (based on my own sales and MM last week). This works out to an (attempted) increase of 30-40%.

Caveats: This was a quick sampling of 5 traders in a single location across gold mats. So small sample. selection bias, etc.

fboostb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

Translation:
We'll look into the financial impact. If too many will cancel ESO+ we will do an emergency patch. Otherwise we wait out the negative reactions till after next weeks bidding. If next week ractions are still negative the next scheduled patch will have some minor fix. After that more wait and see.

Arrodisia

A nice patch that prevents this from happening in the future, and some love for our server performance would be warmly welcomed:

Arrodisia

Cously wrote: »

Are these prices accurate?

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade

Yes. It seems so. There is a nice mixture of low and high prices. We still have some guilds selling at low prices. Now, if we can just get that vendor swap this weekend to work out, we'll be flying high in our original spots. Keep hope alive.

Arrodisia

Have fun in game all. Cheers.

Titansteele

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

Mathius_Mordred

Kosbert wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

@ZOS_GinaBruno when do we got "details" ? The Economy is dead, a rollback would be a punch into the face of everyone who played in the last 24h. I know, you are just the Speaker for ZOS, but we want atleast an update.

If they roll back now after I spent 5 hours getting Zaan helmet I'm leaving and never coming back! They fooked it up, they need to compensate guilds who lost money. The guilds who made money so what, it gives the smaller guilds a chance to get into the trading action for a change in a good spot, next week the big boys will once again have grabbed the city centres and us part time traders will be relegated to the dark depths of Tamriel or with no trader at all (that assumes they fix it, my guess is the same thing will happen again).

In a game which provides and encourages theft and money laundering nobody should be surprised if it actually happens, just as long as it's only in the game, because that's all it is folks, a freaking game, don't get yer pixels in a twist over a mistake due to poor performance. In any case, lots more folk can now afford to buy crowns, you think ZOS are going to stop that?

agegarton

Wow. Just when I thought the game and communication with the player base was going in the right direction, we hit an all time low.

The guild trader bid process was Sunday. It’s now Tuesday. And all we’ve had is a “soon” post.

And once again it’s the EU server. NA was, surprise surprise, not effected.