People without Elsweyr are creating and playing with Necromancers

valeriiya · August 2019

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

@ZOS_GinaBruno so people who didn't pay for it get to keep it? That makes about as much sense as the people you "perma banned" for the vAS exploit being able to come back in 3 months.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · August 2019

Dear ZoS,
Please lock the accounts with the freebie necros or refund people that actually payed for it without an exploit.
Sincerely, someone who actually payed for kitty litter box + necro

Waffennacht · August 2019

Whelp, not spending any more real money. Especially when I can just get it for free

Runs · August 2019

I was sleeping while this happened. Had I been awake and known about it I wouldn't have done it out of fear of the consequences. I mean this really seems like a possible banning offence. I can understand the decision not to take action on the players who did it, it would be bad to pick and sort who gets banned and who doesn't out of ignorance of it being an exploit/glitch. But keeping the characters doesn't seem right either, unless they decide to lock the characters till/if the content is purchased.

jircris11 · August 2019

Azorean wrote: »

Didn't see any news about Necromancers becoming free and I think is weird.
People on guild chat are reporting being able to create and play with Necromancers but can't go to Elsweyr.

And I had a guild member trying in a second account without Elsweyr and succeeded. Is it a bug or a feature?

It will lock that character once the free trial is over iirc from warden bug that happened

Samadhi · August 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't "accidentally" create a necromancer when you know you don't own Elsweyr.

Actually, you can. If you're a new player, just purchased the base game, and created a character. If nothing in the character selection screen stops you from choosing a necromancer, how are you supposed to know you're not supposed to ?

Not saying all non-Elsweyr necros are created "genuinely", but they can. Fixing this is going to be touchy, like some people already mentioned...

TequilaFire wrote: »

Actually the thread has run it's course. lol

I gave up around the time we started playing the "any analogy pushed hard enough breaks down eventually" game and now that we've derailed over weed, I have to agree.

hey now
maybe all this cannabis talk is just analogy

given how it is something that used to be illegal for everyone, but was then allowed into the hands of a select few of us, and finally given access to all adult members of society

overturning previous cannabis convictions = equivalent to refunding players who paid for Necro
legal medicinal access while recreational was illegal = equivalent to having a handful of players authorized to play the class for free
legal access for adults = ZOS refunds players who paid and lets all players have access to Necromancer

ChunkyCat · August 2019

BAN ALL NECROMANCERS.

evil scum

Waffennacht · August 2019

Not much gets to me, but elys wasn't cheap. I just unsubscribed

Wolfpaw · August 2019

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

Right. So you are happy for people to spend hundreds of pounds or dollars for a slim chance to get a mount they really want, and on the other hand you are handing out for free a class some of us paid £60 for a few months ago.

Who makes these decisions? I wouldn't suggest banning or deleting characters, but those who did take advantage should have to buy the new chapter to CONTINUE to play with said character. How else is it going to be fair for everybody?

Life is not fair, & doesn't need to be.

zParallaxz · August 2019

Samadhi wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't "accidentally" create a necromancer when you know you don't own Elsweyr.

Actually, you can. If you're a new player, just purchased the base game, and created a character. If nothing in the character selection screen stops you from choosing a necromancer, how are you supposed to know you're not supposed to ?

Not saying all non-Elsweyr necros are created "genuinely", but they can. Fixing this is going to be touchy, like some people already mentioned...

TequilaFire wrote: »

Actually the thread has run it's course. lol

I gave up around the time we started playing the "any analogy pushed hard enough breaks down eventually" game and now that we've derailed over weed, I have to agree.

hey now
maybe all this cannabis talk is just analogy

given how it is something that used to be illegal for everyone, but was then allowed into the hands of a select few of us, and finally given access to all adult members of society

overturning previous cannabis convictions = equivalent to refunding players who paid for Necro
legal medicinal access while recreational was illegal = equivalent to having a handful of players authorized to play the class for free
legal access for adults = ZOS refunds players who paid and lets all players have access to Necromancer

..... chill with the dabs

Cookie_Bunny · August 2019

Wow you guys are so toxic. Lock da Necros up! They shall pay like we did if they want to play da Necro!

Seriously, be happy, don't complain. It won't affect you.

PS: I got a free necro too, still can use it, will buy Elsweyr anyway. Until that: happy to have a Necro (but still can't use the Elsweyr Region)!

Before I forget to mention: I first thought its part of the ESO+ Days. I got ESO+ but the Customer Service told me that I can make Necros because it's included in those above mentioned days. So you really can't hit the players for it, who didn't knew this in the first place. it's just a weird coincidence. And to punish people for that would be much more weird.

So keep your subscriptions ladys, ZOS are humans like you and me, and humans do make mistakes. But this toxicity here is about his is ridiculous, as if no one of you guys ever made one, or took advantage of one (like getting a free coffee in your favourite coffee shop because the lady on the other side of the counter thought you paid for it already. Do other people start to scream "I want my money back, LOCK THIS COFFEE UNTIL HE PAID FOR!" No, nobody screams that.

Cookie_Bunny

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2019

January1171 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Oh, fixing this is going to be ugly. If they delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then those people are going to be pissed. If they don't delete necromancer characters that were created by people who don't own Elsweyr then people who bought Elsweyr primarily for the necromancer class are going to be pissed.

I mean, it really doesn't matter what the people who created necromancers without owning Elsweyr think. It's in the TOS to not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax; "

ZOS is 100% within their legal rights to delete those characters

No not really if you were making a new character and seen Necro unlocked doesn’t mean you knew it was a bug. You have to keep your in mind the vast majority of players don’t read the forums or read any updates so they may have guessed that they missed something.

It’s not unreasonable for people that don’t read updates to guess that this was just a new feature. If ZoS just deletes there toon, suspend their account or outright ban the account they will hit tons of innocent players. That will end very badly. ZoS can refund crowns but not time. This is ultimately their fault and cracking down on the innocent will backfire hard.

Daedric_NB_187 · August 2019

Saelent wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

Lol. Good show Zo$. You handled this correctly despite what the lynch mob wants you to believe.

Now this is annoying me...
I like how ‘Lynch mob’ is now the term people use to shame those who don’t want them to have what they don’t deserve. Yes, it is a game, but I and many people bought it with real money because we wanted access, you lot got it anyway. I will proudly stand as one of the ‘Lynch mob’ and say that if you didn’t pay for it in one form or another, you shouldn’t damn well have it.
Cheaters get banned, exploiters get items removed, accidental exploiters (you lot) shouldn’t have access to the characters your created until you buy the content you skipped out on.

Hate to burst your bubble. But I bought Elsweyr pre-order. So how am I an exploiter? Just because I think you all are blowing this way out of proportion doesn't mean I'm exploiting. Zo$ recognized the issue and made a decision. Deal with it.

Cookie_Bunny · August 2019

UrQuan wrote: »

It’s not unreasonable for people that don’t read updates to guess that this was just a new feature. If ZoS just deletes there toon, suspend their account or outright ban the account they will hit tons of innocent players. That will end very badly. ZoS can refund crowns but not time. This is ultimately their fault and cracking down on the innocent will backfire hard.

Exactly. it will backfire harder than losing small amounts of p****d players who are angry that some players got something for free. This can cause thousands of people leaving the game, if they are being punished, banned or whatever ZOS can do for creating a Necromancer. I did not knew that this was a bug, I thought it's in the ESO+ days. So, ban me now, and thousands of others, and the game will die in one or two years. Because THAT would be not only unreasonable, but also a knife in the back of the game and really bad publicity.

SydneyGrey · August 2019

They said they won't delete the characters, but I suspect they're coming up with a way to lock just that one character on an account without locking the entire account. Then the people who made the necromancers will be silently encouraged to buy Elsweyr every time they look at their character screen and see a locked necro there that they can't access any more.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2019

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They said they won't delete the characters, but I suspect they're coming up with a way to lock just that one character on an account without locking the entire account. Then the people who made the necromancers will be silently encouraged to buy Elsweyr every time they look at their character screen and see a locked necro there that they can't access any more.

That would be a PR nightmare if you moved gear to that toon cause it was new and you can’t log into that toon then ZoS will be the company that held players items hostage all because of a bug ZoS didn’t patch in time. Not only that but the idea that you shouldn’t play the game for a few days after any updates would quickly return not a good look for ZoS.

To their credit updates used to take hours they have gotten better with that. But holding items hostage will kill any good will they have managed to recover.

TheTwistedRune · August 2019

Wolfpaw wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

Right. So you are happy for people to spend hundreds of pounds or dollars for a slim chance to get a mount they really want, and on the other hand you are handing out for free a class some of us paid £60 for a few months ago.

Who makes these decisions? I wouldn't suggest banning or deleting characters, but those who did take advantage should have to buy the new chapter to CONTINUE to play with said character. How else is it going to be fair for everybody?

Life is not fair, & doesn't need to be.

Yes, and mores the pity. Just because life as a whole isn’t fair doesn’t mean we should accept unjust agendas in areas where it can be made fair.

Also , don’t patronise me. There is nothing you can tell me about life. Spare me your regurgitated “wisdom” and save it for those who you know are interested.

Skorro · August 2019

I have to be careful with this thread, some salt might spill into my coffee

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

bluebird wrote: »

Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.

If I visit a store that mistakenly says "this item is free", and I take the item, and I walk out of the store, several things can happen :

1 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, calls the police and files a legal complaint against me for attempted robbery.
2 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, and kindly asks me to give it back (or pay for it)
3 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, but lets me keep the item out of courtesy because, after all, it was their fault.

In cases 1 and 2 I'm sure I will never ever go back to such an unprofessional store.
In case 3 I am pretty sure to visit it again - not because I might get "free" stuff again, but simply because they behaved nicely and responsibly.

TL/DR : there are commercial consequences beyond the bare legal aspects of things.

hamgatan · August 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't "accidentally" create a necromancer when you know you don't own Elsweyr.

That's intentional abuse of a bug. No excuses.

no it isn't. what if my 7yo kid logs on tonight and thinks he can now play a necro. he would be excited and not know any better. sure i'd eventually catch him and say err, i didn't buy you Elsweyr? but is he exploiting? christ no. he doesn't even know the meaning of the word..

SKYICE01 · August 2019

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what ZOS does...

Delete the toons and temp ban the accounts. Might seem severe but I'm not a fan of the "my exploiting is ZOS's fault" attitude.

Yes temp banning players who are returning and havent played the game for awhile and don't know that necromancers are part of paid content. Smart.

Just to confirm, we won't be deleting the characters or banning accounts for this.

So can I get refunded??? I dont play story I only play pvp and Got elswyre for necro PVP since people get that free its fair I get refunded

MLGProPlayer · August 2019

hamgatan wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't "accidentally" create a necromancer when you know you don't own Elsweyr.

That's intentional abuse of a bug. No excuses.

no it isn't. what if my 7yo kid logs on tonight and thinks he can now play a necro. he would be excited and not know any better. sure i'd eventually catch him and say err, i didn't buy you Elsweyr? but is he exploiting? christ no. he doesn't even know the meaning of the word..

Your 7 year-old kid shouldn't be playing an 18+ game, especially a multiplayer one.

MLGProPlayer · August 2019

Necromancers will be available in the crown store next year. You'll be able to buy them with in-game gold. Who cares if some people got them for free now?

I bought Elsweyr and I don't care.

StormChaser3000 · August 2019

Whoa, unlike indrik this time that's a pretty bad mistake on ZOS side. Character lock would be the best option for both those who own Elsweyr and for ZOS.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

SKYICE01 wrote: »

So can I get refunded??? I dont play story I only play pvp and Got elswyre for necro PVP since people get that free its fair I get refunded

Do you also ask for a refund when you bought something and your friend buys the exact same thing later on sale at half the price ?

Cookie_Bunny · August 2019

SKYICE01 wrote: »

So can I get refunded??? I dont play story I only play pvp and Got elswyre for necro PVP since people get that free its fair I get refunded

I bought Elsweyr (Collectors Edition for under £35, new price over £70) for a fraction of it's normal Price some minutes ago. So I assume you go and scream "REFUND ME NOW, I paid WAAAAY TOO MUCH. This should not be possible! Bad BAD ZOS for letting this happen."

And please make a video of it, so we have something to laugh about.

As I said, even the fact I got the Necro for free, I bought the Chapter, because I like the way the Necro works. So, it's kind of a good thing for ZOS. Because I guess it's not only me that now has a reason to buy the Elsweyr Chapter after we were able to kind of "test" it.

bluebird · August 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Even if this is the first time you ever been to that store, and you aren't aware of the usual price of the 'premium access' and that the item is exclusive to that, you still exploited it. And the store gently taking it out of your hands ('oh no, we're sorry but there was a mistake with the labeling, that wasn't for free') when you try to leave with it forever isn't a punishment.

If I visit a store that mistakenly says "this item is free", and I take the item, and I walk out of the store, several things can happen :

1 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, calls the police and files a legal complaint against me for attempted robbery.
2 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, and kindly asks me to give it back (or pay for it)
3 - The staff stops me on my way out, tells me that item wasn't free and was mislabeled, but lets me keep the item out of courtesy because, after all, it was their fault.

In cases 1 and 2 I'm sure I will never ever go back to such an unprofessional store.
In case 3 I am pretty sure to visit it again - not because I might get "free" stuff again, but simply because they behaved nicely and responsibly.

TL/DR : there are commercial consequences beyond the bare legal aspects of things.

Number 1 would be a ban, that's not what we're discussing. That's a punitive measure.
Number 2 isn't a punishment, and while you're entitled to 'never shop here again' or whatever, that is a reflection of your character and ultimately not a big loss.

And again, that excuse 'well it was their mistake I should be allowed to keep anything' doesn't work to justify an exploit - if it was okay to exploit what's 'their mistake' all exploits would be endorsed. That is not 'behaving nicely and responsibly'. That is rewarding exploiters, and undermining people who chose not to exploit because they knew it was wrong, and trivializes the purchase decisions of people who obtain the items through legitimate means.

It's also probably best if we let go of the shop analogy. When I wrote it I meant it to draw a parallel between getting unintended access, people being aware of that or not being aware of that being irrelevant, and to point out that locking down the Necros until you buy Elsweyr (like locking down the Craft Bag until you buy ESO+ even if you tried it temporarily with a trial) isn't a punishment as people were bemoaning, because the punishment would be to ban people (and to take legal action irl) which isn't what's being discussed.

I wrote it in reply to someone who claimed that not allowing non-Elsweyr users to keep playing Necromancers they didn't pay for is calling for players to be punished. Which isn't the case. It's also funny that people are using that analogy in two ways - on the one hand to argue that it's not fully accurate so it doesn't matter and on the other hand they make points about real life store situations to somehow make a point about our current situation. So as I said, it's better if people just let that go because it's just missing its original point.

And honestly, the Necromancer isn't an item but access to a service. So if people want to draw a parallel with the item (instead of the punishment side of things which was the point of my analogy) then they should use a service example. Like being at a club with 4 bars, a Premium bar, and a VIP bar. One day the red cordon is missing from the VIP bar for a couple of hours so you go and serve yourself (out of ignorance or knowingly it doesn't matter). However, after the owners restore the red cordon and confirm that it was an accident, it wouldn't be a punishment to you if you weren't allowed to come back every day and access the same VIP bar when you never paid 30 bucks for the membership. That would just allow continued exploitation. You got away with access for a couple of hours, but that way your exploit wouldn't be continuously endorsed for future access. Which is why this ingame exploit is particularly problematic.

Unij · August 2019

I've seen yesterday people asking in zone chat, if elsweyr and necros are now part of eso+.

Unij · August 2019

Cookie_Bunny wrote: »

As I said, even the fact I got the Necro for free, I bought the Chapter, because I like the way the Necro works. So, it's kind of a good thing for ZOS. Because I guess it's not only me that now has a reason to buy the Elsweyr Chapter after we were able to kind of "test" it.

You could have tested it on pts...

D0PAMINE · August 2019

Fix the bug, let them keep their necros.