MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

ScruffyWhiskers

Iskiab wrote: »

I don’t think this is true. There are still some specs that are mathematically better, but it’s mostly about synergy between sets.

Without testing and trying out new things you can get caught behind the meta. Usually with how specs work you tweak and tweak until you take a setup as strong as it can get down a logical progression, but if you tried a different strategy at the beginning you’ll arrive somewhere else. Does that make sense? I think that’s where some people get hung up, they confuse the class with a playstyle, but there are more options out there.

Oh, I agree about testing out new things and you are 100% correct about the importance of playstyle. That right there sets what you need for stats from your build and you skill selection. The thing that I keep coming back to is that some new set comes out and you go oh, look at that. I'll try that out. It gives me more of this but to compensate I'm going to need to change my mundus or enchants around so my regen is close to the same or my spell pen is close to the same. It just seems like it's the case of rearranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic to get the same result. You need to really change your playstyle to experiment with different sets, enchants, skills and mundus. That's tough. Often you end up going, oh, that won't work very well. Can I get my 500k in gold back?

Iskiab

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I don’t think this is true. There are still some specs that are mathematically better, but it’s mostly about synergy between sets.

Without testing and trying out new things you can get caught behind the meta. Usually with how specs work you tweak and tweak until you take a setup as strong as it can get down a logical progression, but if you tried a different strategy at the beginning you’ll arrive somewhere else. Does that make sense? I think that’s where some people get hung up, they confuse the class with a playstyle, but there are more options out there.

Oh, I agree about testing out new things and you are 100% correct about the importance of playstyle. That right there sets what you need for stats from your build and you skill selection. The thing that I keep coming back to is that some new set comes out and you go oh, look at that. I'll try that out. It gives me more of this but to compensate I'm going to need to change my mundus or enchants around so my regen is close to the same or my spell pen is close to the same. It just seems like it's the case of rearranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic to get the same result. You need to really change your playstyle to experiment with different sets, enchants, skills and mundus. That's tough. Often you end up going, oh, that won't work very well. Can I get my 500k in gold back?

Oh yea for sure. Testing sets and specs is expensive, but moreso I find the transmutation price expensive.

Some sets are crazy expensive though, when I wanted to setup my stamwarden healer with powerful assault DW daggers... forget about it. One dagger listed for 400k and nothing else on the vendor. I don’t think there are even any left on PC-NA anymore.

I usually try to buy cheap armour pieces and transmute them, but even then that limits me to a spec per month when I get loaded up with transmutation stones from the end of campaign rewards. Thank god for crafted sets, but for proc sets you sorta need weapons to combine them with a weapon set on one bar. I’m also close to a 9 trait crafter and flush with mats to test stuff out, I just don’t gold jewellery unless it’s my main set.

Only saving grace is by trying out sets it’s a learning exercise. When something doesn’t work I try to figure out why which helps your understanding of sets. It does give you an advantage for specs too, like for example fortified brass is more popular now than when it was a better set without nerfed protective and onslaught.

fred4

In terms of going all spell damage, my problem has always been that I play with shields. Thus, I have always considered BTB, Alfiq and Necro the better sets. I think high spell damage makes more sense on templar, cause they get Minor Sorcery and are often played without shields. NB has that easily accessible +8% magicka passive instead.

For the melee playstyle, I consider Auroran's Thunder marginally better than Spinner's, because it can flush other NBs out of cloak. You might wear Overwhelming Surge for the same reason. Both of those sets can proc Minor Vulnerability in case you don't already use Lotus Fan.

There is one thing I want to try, but I again think it will work better on templar, which is combining Onslaught with Mechanical Acuity in a heavy armor build. The idea is to be tanky, but negate heavy armor's weakness that way. Swwps / Jabs procs Acuity. It gives you a good chance of proccing that as part of your opening combo, e.g. gap closer -> Onslaught -> Sweeps / Jabs.

GhostofDatthaw

Does the brp buff your pass hp Regen? Or is it only cp.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

In terms of going all spell damage, my problem has always been that I play with shields. Thus, I have always considered BTB, Alfiq and Necro the better sets. I think high spell damage makes more sense on templar, cause they get Minor Sorcery and are often played without shields. NB has that easily accessible +8% magicka passive instead.

For the melee playstyle, I consider Auroran's Thunder marginally better than Spinner's, because it can flush other NBs out of cloak. You might wear Overwhelming Surge for the same reason. Both of those sets can proc Minor Vulnerability in case you don't already use Lotus Fan.

There is one thing I want to try, but I again think it will work better on templar, which is combining Onslaught with Mechanical Acuity in a heavy armor build. The idea is to be tanky, but negate heavy armor's weakness that way. Swwps / Jabs procs Acuity. It gives you a good chance of proccing that as part of your opening combo, e.g. gap closer -> Onslaught -> Sweeps / Jabs.

This might work on a templar, never thought of trying it, but it definitely works on a NB. MA makes sense on heavy, but you can get really good crit numbers with 5x light anyways (close to 50%) so I haven’t figured out what’s best.

Vicious death is a must so really it’s about what set to pair it with. Bombers say war maiden (the mag damage one) but I think it depends what you want to do in your back bar waiting for onslaught. Healing for Ult gen makes sense in a group, IDK. I’ve been meaning to try shalk exoskeleton but haven’t transmuted it yet. If you plan on doing much on your back bar I was thinking of trying BT too.

fred4

The reasons why I think Acuity + Onslaught will work well on templar are:

(1) Acuity is a random proc. Sweeps / Jabs procs it and, uniquely, that yields 4 proc chances in one GCD while staying on the 2H bar. The only other skills you can say that of are Flurry and Force Shock, but those would constrain your weapon choices and would involve an awkward bar swap after Onslaught.

(2) Templar, like NB, has a crit damage passive. Other classes don't.

(3) I've tested Solar Barrage and Radiant Destruction. Both are buffed by Onslaught! In Solar Barrage you have a pseudo DOT that you can pre-buff before gap closing.

While I'm sure Acuity works on other classes, I was thinking about how to control the proc to coincide with the Onslaught window and what skills Onslaught would buff, bearing in mind we lose some light attack damage by running 2H. What might be absolutely crazy is combining that with Caluurion, as Toppling Charge is a CC and would proc that. In reality, however, I found that running heavy on magplar badly ate into my sustain, so I ended up running heavy Acuity + Lich. I use Restoring Focus on magplar by the way, as I prefer sustaining my stamina that way and get the regen while sprinting or blocking.

This is mostly theory - I only tested briefly - but I can't think how the Acuity + Onslaught idea would fit in as well with magblade. Templar works well in heavy without shields. Cloak is better sustained in light armor and you probably want shields. This makes me feel Acuity would be wasted on magblade, at least a cloaking magblade. Like you say, you probably have high crit already.

Iskiab

Hum, IDK maybe Templar would work. Only issue would be getting onslaught off because you're lacking cloak but you can just sneak as a vampire, lacking the speed of a NB might be an issue, IDK. Mist form would be handy for escape for both classes so I don't see a big downside with vampire.

Btw, I didn't mention it but I like Balorg's and the shadow mundus the best. There's always a new player around who underestimates how much crit resists you need to blow up a group. I use my alt who's a khajit even though the race isn't the best for it, a 113% or so crit modifier is still a 68% crit mod against someone with 3k crit resists.

So if I'm set on Balorgs, Shadow and Vicious death then the other set comes down to how tanky you want to be, and the setting you want to play in. The more glassy you are the more specialized in ganking you'll be and it limits how versatile you are. Shalks does guarantee 500 ult for your onslaught, but the other stats on the set are so so and sustain will be an issue if you want to be versatile. Right now I'm mechanical acuity in 5L-1M-1H but thinking about it there's room to improve.

fred4

Getting Onslaught off is no problem. Toppling Charge -> Onslaught. Toppling Charge stuns in many real world situations.

I can see you're working on a bomb build. Well, yeah, different thing altogether.

Since this is a magblade thread and for the benefit of anyone not currently working on a bomb build, I ran into a strong magblade build recently. At least it was nasty in a duel. All the DOTs, then Invigorating Drain. I think he was using bats as well. Makes sense when you think about it. All buffed by Thaum and addresses one of the issues magblade has gotten weak at: How to heal while attacking.

ScruffyWhiskers

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

Iskiab

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

GhostofDatthaw

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

When they want to change a unique skill not because it's overperforming but because it "needs" to be standardized, they are not in tune with the game.

GhostofDatthaw

brandonv516 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

When they want to change a unique skill not because it's overperforming but because it "needs" to be standardized, they are not in tune with the game.

But it will ruin the feng shui of the homogeneous blending.. jeez lay off will ya xD

fred4

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

I’d give it a go. I usually plan sets and then switch around skills depending on how I find it performs.

Some things to consider:
- Onslaught is great but buggy and won’t fire in high pop area. I’d try to keep fighting away from zergs
- Against small/large scalers with a good healer they’ll cleanse those dots faster than you can apply them. You’ll have to adjust the spec if you go to this setting
- The snare on ritual is awesome and one of the best defenses against melee. I assume it being on your front bar means you intend to use it offensively?
- Weapon swoping can get interrupted by things like leap, add lag and you can’t count on swoping bars easily
- Aoes hard counter NBs, having one to negate a whole class can be worth it
- Dots are great against sorcs, strip out too many dots for other abilities and they might give you problems

What I’d suggest:

Try it as is, if melee are giving you problems try ritual on your back bar instead and drop a dot.

If you’re having kiting issues try vampire and adding mist form, the extra sustain will help too.

fred4

Well, this should be the most toxic OP build ever, right? It is not. I have never fully gotten the DOT meta. I still think too much is made of it. Yeah, this isn't a super high DOT pressure build, but it combines that with some other nasty stuff, e.g. Caluurion and Onslaught.

I ran into a well known stam DK 1vXer / YouTuber on PC EU. He tends to wear Fury and, based on combat logs, I believe he did. He killed me, once, as I was running to where NPCs would not negate me. He could not kill me again, but I had to play very defensively. When I successfully bursted him, DOTs applied, I hardly made a dent. He didn't even block. This just confirms something to me, namely that stam DK and the old Fury / stack weapon damage meta is flying under the radar. My templar feels good, but my own stam DK feels even better, if I'm honest.

As my burst did not work against this guy, I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of killing me again and eventually made my way from the resource tower back to the keep, with him in pursuit. I then found out he is one of the most toxic people I've encountered in a long while, as I was greeted by a tirade of abuse in chat. Why is it that so many of the best players become that way? It's depressing. It does not inspire one to improve.

From a nightblade point of view, I feel templar - Sweeps in particular - is way overtuned. My, now CP500 on PC NA, magblade has been hit with almost 3K Jabs crits. That's from a single hit of which Jabs has 4. At CP810 I rarely see hits crit over 2K, but even that is too much. When you're a melee magblade and they have Living Dark on as well, I feel you can't play against such templars. Furthermore, Mirage / Phantasmal Escape does not appear to help. I think I even had that up, when the stamplar hit me for 3K.

It's a completely different story when you pit templar against stam DK. Overall game balance seems so far off, it makes me question why the community clamours for it. Even if you obtained it, most open world encounters will remain heavily stacked in favor of one side by virtue of numbers.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

I’d give it a go. I usually plan sets and then switch around skills depending on how I find it performs.

Some things to consider:
- Onslaught is great but buggy and won’t fire in high pop area. I’d try to keep fighting away from zergs
- Against small/large scalers with a good healer they’ll cleanse those dots faster than you can apply them. You’ll have to adjust the spec if you go to this setting
- The snare on ritual is awesome and one of the best defenses against melee. I assume it being on your front bar means you intend to use it offensively?
- Weapon swoping can get interrupted by things like leap, add lag and you can’t count on swoping bars easily
- Aoes hard counter NBs, having one to negate a whole class can be worth it
- Dots are great against sorcs, strip out too many dots for other abilities and they might give you problems

What I’d suggest:

Try it as is, if melee are giving you problems try ritual on your back bar instead and drop a dot.

If you’re having kiting issues try vampire and adding mist form, the extra sustain will help too.

I played it this morning. Onlaught really only buffs Radiant. Caluurion landing after Onslaught is a bit hit and miss. I was compensating for the lack of AOE with detect potions, but I think Solar Barrage may be in order, as well as switching from Radiant to Sweeps.

The skill layout is mostly determined by wanting to control the Caluurion proc. The 2H bar is not really the main bar you spend your time on. It's the burst bar only.

I tend to instinctively block, when under pressure. Honor the Dead had to be on the ice-staff bar for block casting and Living Dark needs to be refreshed every 6 seconds. The DOTs had to be on the ranged bar. The reason Ritual (and Rune and RAT) is on the 2H bar is that they won't activate Caluurion (although ticking DOTs will), so you withhold the Caluurion proc until you're ready to burst.

Ideally you should wait for the Acuity proc to guarantee Caluurion. In practice it often goes off at the wrong times or you get CCs or people LoS.

GhostofDatthaw

If you want a good magplar the build im running has been working well, and has tons of aoe burst. Fun solo and great in group

btb body, innate lightning/snb, 2arcane 1infused all spell damage, grothdar

Bars are splitting, reflective, ele drain, jabs, topple, cresent.
Honor, channel focus, mist, extended ritual, living dark, devour swarm.

I have had alot of success with this setup

brandonv516

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

fred4

Thanks, but I don't play vampires. That said, I might modify it. Light armor? Food? Mundus? You got any stam sustain? I assume you get away without any by using Mist?

Not like my build wasn't successful this morning in IC. I killed a nightblade, a DK. Then I won a 3-way 1v1v1 fight. Then I was the last of my faction to die in a larger fight. I didn't mention it, because success against random players doesn't mean much, especially those that play early in the morning. How do you define success?

That 1vXer was a known quantity. Someone who didn't just play well, but had their build sorted out. The damage from the DOTs, Caluurion and Onslaught was shockingly low. DOTs at or below 1K. Onslaught 2.5K. Caluurion 5K (hit before Onslaught). Now he didn't hit me that hard either on average, but his Dizzying ramped up quite a lot, up to over 6K. He clearly had more pressure and ate less damage than I did. He used Corrosive. Neither Corrosive nor Onslaught buff DOTs, so I think the upshot is to use more direct damage skills or forget Onslaught and run a more conventional build, like you.

Something stuck in my mind is a long video of a duelling tournament, organised by Khyleo some time ago. He had ruled out a whole bunch of sets and skills, but the game seemed as unbalanced as I've ever seen. A magblade dominated other players until it ran into the mag DK who won the tournament. You could see the sheer amount of pressure the magblade had applied to other players and, when it faced the DK, the tables turned completely and the magblade seemed out of options. I refuse to believe that was due to much of a skill difference in that case. I saw it as imbalance.

fred4

brandonv516 wrote: »

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

Sorry. Magblade is and remains my main too.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

I probably will too until the patch, then planning on a MagDK or Magsorc, I’m not sure yet.

GhostofDatthaw

fred4 wrote: »

Thanks, but I don't play vampires. That said, I might modify it. Light armor? Food? Mundus? You got any stam sustain? I assume you get away without any by using Mist?

Not like my build wasn't successful this morning in IC. I killed a nightblade, a DK. Then I won a 3-way 1v1v1 fight. Then I was the last of my faction to die in a larger fight. I didn't mention it, because success against random players doesn't mean much, especially those that play early in the morning. How do you define success?

That 1vXer was a known quantity. Someone who didn't just play well, but had their build sorted out. The damage from the DOTs, Caluurion and Onslaught was shockingly low. DOTs at or below 1K. Onslaught 2.5K. Caluurion 5K (hit before Onslaught). Now he didn't hit me that hard either on average, but his Dizzying ramped up quite a lot, up to over 6K. He clearly had more pressure and ate less damage than I did. He used Corrosive. Neither Corrosive nor Onslaught buff DOTs, so I think the upshot is to use more direct damage skills or forget Onslaught and run a more conventional build, like you.

Something stuck in my mind is a long video of a duelling tournament, organised by Khyleo some time ago. He had ruled out a whole bunch of sets and skills, but the game seemed as unbalanced as I've ever seen. A magblade dominated other players until it ran into the mag DK who won the tournament. You could see the sheer amount of pressure the magblade had applied to other players and, when it faced the DK, the tables turned completely and the magblade seemed out of options. I refuse to believe that was due to much of a skill difference in that case. I saw it as imbalance.

I run atro mundus with a lizard, all my buddies joke I'm the lizard wizard. With btb I'm running spring loaded and have Stam back glyph on my shield, I have like 18k Stam and I can restore ok with just a heavy. I'm a little less mobile that they took the ani cancel from mist, but yeah thats the mobility and it's still effective. FYI if you're in mist and overwhelming is procing it's restore mag to you, I discovered this in IC. But I can really just block cast get my bubble up, barswap cresent then go to work. If things are hairy hopefully I have some bats.

Next patch I will go back to overwhelming and skoria since it's a great way to get off that back bar block bol death sentence.

I play alot of magplar also, it and magnb. But I do really love my templar

GhostofDatthaw

I'm trying to think of a dps build in bgs that can brawler. I have my magdk setup for it, but I was the versitility to run it on magnb also. I ran a bunch and my setup works but I feel bad during team fights. I have nothing to do so I'm gonna try some theory crafting

fred4

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

...it's a great way to get off that back bar block bol death sentence.

THIS! This is why I ran Pirate + Protective last patch and why I am playing around with a heavy armor option now. I think Living Dark is an incredible new defense, though. It's hard to appreciate, unless you have to play against it. Between that, heavy armor, blocking, BoL and the occasional cleanse, I was able to come back from the brink of death back to full health numerous times, this morning.

I know people duel in light armor and can manage their defenses by pressuring the other guy, but I'm not quite that good and at any rate in open-world, without vamp, I think you need to be tankier.

Last patch I used a vMA resto for the extra HOT. I hated a blocking weapon on the backbar. It locked me into BoL spamming when I started with templar. This patch Living Dark has replaced Regeneration and I can happily run a block-enhancing weapon (ice staff). It's a win win. Does anyone else feel ZOS are so clueless? They nerf Pirate. They nerf Protective. That was, foremost, a magplar build pattern. Then they intended to nerf or move Total Dark sideways, but they completely buffed the crap out of that skill instead. They certainly made it much more overbearing than it was before.

GhostofDatthaw

I'm a light armor magplar believer more bols, and bigger bols

fred4

Coming back to NB, as soon as I saw someone mention this combo in another thread:

Shadowy -> Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Lotus Fan -> LA -> Fear (Caluurion) -> LA -> Soul Harvest -> LA -> Spam or Execute

I knew that would work and, OMG, it does. I just ganked an Imperial Physique guy in basically 2 GCDs with this.

This is a very elaborate combo, which involves a bar swap after cloak in my build. However, in terms of when these abilities hit, it's only after Lotus Fan. NB has the leisure to pull something like this off. I never looked into something this elaborate before, because I quite enjoy a more brawly playstyle, but I almost feel a little foolish now. Got to see how it holds up long term, though.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Coming back to NB, as soon as I saw someone mention this combo in another thread:

Shadowy -> Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Lotus Fan -> LA -> Fear (Caluurion) -> LA -> Soul Harvest -> LA -> Spam or Execute

I knew that would work and, OMG, it does. I just ganked an Imperial Physique guy in basically 2 GCDs with this.

This is a very elaborate combo, which involves a bar swap after cloak in my build. However, in terms of when these abilities hit, it's only after Lotus Fan. NB has the leisure to pull something like this off. I never looked into something this elaborate before, because I quite enjoy a more brawly playstyle, but I almost feel a little foolish now. Got to see how it holds up long term, though.

Isn’t it better to drop the light attack before Lotus?

Cloak - Ele - Lotus - LA - etc...

Ele weapon gives bonus damage on a light attack done within a couple seconds so you can skip a LA for a bit of burst. I think it was Brandon who uses this is his ranged build, and I’ve tried using it too but still figuring out how best to use it with Onslaught. It’s harder in melee because you can miss a melee LA with movement and the bonus damage can expire.

Or is it that you’re trying to hit with the buffed ranged LA at the same timeish as lotus?

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I'm a light armor magplar believer more bols, and bigger bols

Same, I’ve been trying to fit LA and more crit into all my builds, especially in CP pvp. It feels like I get more bang from LA and crit than heavy, especially when someone can negate all your resistances when they onslaught.

It’s tough to balance with defensive nerfs; I’ve been stacking sustain, healing % modifiers with Nord and bloodspawn. I’m still not satisfied and think I can improve my build by adding more speed.