Stop making a New Tutorial for Every Chapter

Iccotak

I keep running into players both in the game and in the forums who ask what the best order to do the story in or have No direction and No idea where to go and what to do.
Let's face it; if you don't play the Story in release order then it doesn't make sense.
Elsweyr especially doesn't work if you haven't played the base game first, since you reunite with important characters from the base game's story.

I think it's its bad game design and bad storytelling that new players trying to figure out the real Main Quest have to "Google it", or even, "ask more experienced players in zone chat." It works but its band aid solutions. New Players should have a clear guide, or Rail, of a story to follow with the option to do what they want. That is how ESO One Tamriel worked before Chapters were released.

The issue is that the current chapter set up leaves players a little directionless and confused because they are dropped into the latest content, which is a fraction of the game, as opposed to the Base Game - where most of the game is.
Important things like;
-Guild skill lines (Undaunted, Mages, Fighters)
-World skill lines (Werewolf, Vampirism)
-PvP
All of these things which have storylines that revolve around the base game - this begs the question; why don't new players just start there?

This isn't about telling players how they should play - This is about providing clear Directions so that players know their Choices.


SOLUTIONS

1. ZOS should refine the Zone Guide. Specifically, the Main Quest metric. It should indicate the sequence of the quests, Chronologically. From the Base Game to the DLCs.
This is especially needed now that Dungeon DLCs & Prologue Quests are added to the 'Year Long Storytelling Format'
The Prologue Quests shouldn't be in the Crown store. sorry - not sorry
Just like the build advisor, Players should have a clear guide for the Storyline that they can choose to follow.

Example:
It should tell you the story order of AD:
Khanarthi's Roost > Auridon > Grahtwood > Greenshade > Malabal Tor > Reapers March > Coldharbour

2. Fix the Original Tutorial, make it proper and Not Rushed. Here's how it should go.

1. Opening Cutscene
2. Create the character
3. A vision of the Prophet talks to you in your cell
4. Lyris breaks you out of your cell and you tell her about the prophet
5. You team up to break him out
6. Lyris hands you a weapon to use for now
7. You fight some enemies, get a basic idea of controls
8. Fight mini-boss
9. Head to armory and find some gear, a couple pieces of armor, and varying choices of weapons to try out
10. Sneak and Take out the Eyes
12. Meet Cadwell
13. Lockpick tutorial
14. break into Prophet's cell and get him out
15. Fight Boss
16. Take Skyshard & Esape Coldharbor
17. Start in the Starter island of your faction

Players who have already completed the tutorial have the option to skip it so then they can get right to doing whatever they want and going wherever they want. However, the Tutorial should always be the Coldharbour Wailing Prison.
It was the most EPIC introduction to the game (imo) and it also does a FAR better job of giving the players direction, which is important for new players that want to get into the game and not be overwhelmed.
Also the major Guild Storylines & Skill lines revolve around the base game so it is important to make sure players have some immediate access to those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fle96EAHlDg&t=1s

3. In the Collections menu - give players the option to activate DLCs and Chapters if they want to start one
This way when a new player is starting they are not bombarded by DLC and Chapter characters clamoring for their attention - like Abnur Tharn talking about Dragons when the player is in the middle of the Plane Meld storyline - or "Do You Know How Long I've Been Looking For You?"
Otherwise DLC storylines will activate in order of release upon completion.
Here's an idea of what happens when a player activates add-on content

The prologue quests and "tutorials" that ZOS made for the chapters will instead be "expansion intros".
-The first time your character goes to Vvardenfell, they take the boat that shipwrecks on firemoth isle
-The first time your character follows queen Ayrenns invitation to summerset, they get intercepted by sea-sload magic and end up in the mind trap
-The first time your character goes to Elsweyr, they get caught in a dragon attack and end up rescued by some friendly Khajiit

Here is a post for anyone curious how to play the story in the best order:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413807/what-order-should-i-do-esos-story-arcs-a-guide/p1

Also the official Website timeline release of content
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates

Here's what I do:

- Coldharbor/Tamriel
- Imperial City (optional)
- Craglorn (optional)
- Orsinium
- Morrowind
- Clockwork City
- Summerset
- Murkmire
- Wrathstone Prologue
- Elsweyr

If I am doing a sneaking character then I do Thieves Guild + Dark Brotherhood in between Orsinium and Morrowind

As @VaranisArano , the OP in that post put it;
Its entirely possible to have a great and fulfilling questing experience running around doing everything in whatever order you want. It's an Elder Scrolls game in that regard. If, on the other hand, you want to experience the coherent, cohesive, immersive storyline of the Elder Scrolls Online that spans the entire continent for the first time since TES: Arena, following the chronology of the original pre-One Tamriel ESO through the threat of the Planemeld, into the rising threat of the Daedric Wars, and now facing the rage of dragons is one of the best ways to do so.

Berserkerkitten

Glad I'm not the only one bothered by this. I remember taking a brand new character to Summerset and Raz greeted me like an old friend. Bit awkward.

Iccotak

Berserkerkitten wrote: »

Glad I'm not the only one bothered by this. I remember taking a brand new character to Summerset and Raz greeted me like an old friend. Bit awkward.

Exactly! Its not rewarding interacting with certain characters in the Add-on content if you haven't played the base game

Berserkerkitten

Iccotak wrote: »

Exactly! Its not rewarding interacting with certain characters in the Add-on content if you haven't played the base game

Funny thing is, the first time I tried this, I fully expected Raz to treat me like a stranger. I just assumed they'd change the dialogue for new characters, what with this being an AAA big budget game and everything. I thought it was a bug when he acted like we were old friends. Guess it's working as intended. Seems a bit lazy. :-/

Kalante

Iccotak wrote: »

Berserkerkitten wrote: »

Glad I'm not the only one bothered by this. I remember taking a brand new character to Summerset and Raz greeted me like an old friend. Bit awkward.

Exactly! Its not rewarding interacting with certain characters in the Add-on content if you haven't played the base game

What a huge overlook and immersion destruction by zos, thats simply amazingly POG. I am not even surprised by them at this point. But honestly new players won't even know the **** Raz is and changing dialogue accordingly to a character that hasn't done certain main story quests sounds way too challenging for zos to do. The game can barely even run on console as it is.

jircris11

Iccotak wrote: »

I keep running into players both in the game and in the forums who ask what the best order to do the story in and let's face it; if you don't play the Story in release order it doesn't make sense.
Elsweyr especially doesn't work if you haven't played the base game first, since you reunite with important characters from the base game's story.

I think it's its bad game design and bad storytelling that new players trying to figure out the real Main Quest have to "Google it", or even, "ask more experienced players in zone chat." It works but its band aid solutions.

ZOS should refine the Zone Guide. Specifically, the Main Quest metric. It should indicate the sequence of the quests, Chronologically. From the Base Game to the DLCs.
This is especially needed now that Dungeon DLCs & Prologue Quests are added to the 'Year Long Storytelling Format'
The Prologue Quests shouldn't be in the Crown store. sorry - not sorry

Fix the Original Tutorial, make it proper and Not Rushed. Here's how it should go.

1. Opening Cutscene
2. Create the character
3. A vision of the Prophet talks to you in your cell
4. Lyris breaks you out of your cell and you tell her about the prophet
5. You team up to break him out
6. Lyris hands you a weapon to use for now
7. You fight some enemies, get a basic idea of controls
8. You head to armory and find some gear, a couple pieces of armor, and varying choices of weapons if you want
9. Fight mini-boss
9. Sneak and Take out the Eyes
10. Meet Cadwell
11. break into Prophet's cell and get him out
12. Fight Boss
13. Take Skyshard & Esape Coldharbor
14. Start in the Starter island of your faction

Players have the option to skip the Tutorial so then they can get right to doing whatever they want and going wherever they want but the Tutorial should always be the Coldharbour Wailing Prison.
It was the most EPIC introduction to the game (imo) and it also does a FAR better job of giving the players direction, which is important for new players that want to get into the game and not be overwhelmed.
Also the major Guild Storylines & Skill lines are part of the base game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fle96EAHlDg&t=1s

Here is a post for anyone curious how to play the story in the best order:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413807/what-order-should-i-do-esos-story-arcs-a-guide/p1

Here's what I do:
Coldharbor/Tamriel -> Orsinium -> Morrowind -> Clockwork City -> Summerset -> Murkmire -> Wrathstone Prologue -> Elsweyr

As @VaranisArano , the OP in that post put it;
Its entirely possible to have a great and fulfilling questing experience running around doing everything in whatever order you want. It's an Elder Scrolls game in that regard. If, on the other hand, you want to experience the coherent, cohesive, immersive storyline of the Elder Scrolls Online that spans the entire continent for the first time since TES: Arena, following the chronology of the original pre-One Tamriel ESO through the threat of the Planemeld, into the rising threat of the Daedric Wars, and now facing the rage of dragons is one of the best ways to do so.

I always tell them to start with the hooded figure, I agree they are getting story MASSIVELY out if context

Hluill

Agree completely, start with Coldharbor! It explains everything!

The newer tutorials are becoming weaker and weaker in describing and demonstrating game mechanics.

Is it my imagination or is less thought being placed in immersion? For those that don't care: great, play on. But I am feeling like my playstyle is being ignored as content becomes less immersive...

~shrugs~

redlink1979

Change the future tutorials, everyone knows Coldharbour's Wailing Prison is the right way to start the game.

KerinKor

Iccotak wrote: »

As @VaranisArano , the OP in that post put it;
Its entirely possible to have a great and fulfilling questing experience running around doing everything in whatever order you want. It's an Elder Scrolls game in that regard.

I disagree with that assertion, insofar as the base game consists of three 5-zone story arcs which can only really be appreciated if done sequentially .. the order of doing the three stories is of course arbitrary .. and there's a large disconnect if you don't progress the Mage and Fighter guild stories along with the first of the faction stories as originally existed.

The whole notion the 'Unlimited' allows you to level anywhere you like is a fallacy IMO unless you're only concerned with your character's level, you still need to follow the tramlines of the original three faction stories with the Main Quest interleaved as designed.

If you try to progress a character from one faction in the zones of another, every time you reach a point in the Main Quest you're wrenched back to your base faction to deal with the Mage and Fighter guild NPCs .. it's totally jarring and at times bewildering.

I've played since B14 and so did the original game with Cadwell's Silver and Gold so I knew well how the original content was presented .. obviously Silver and Gold were jarring story-wise, let alone from the perspective of faction identity, but it was the only way ZOS could allow players to have one character do everything.

Unitl recently I'd not played since a couple of weeks into Morrowind's release, I started a couple of new characters and like the poster in the thread this OP links to I had no idea how the various expansions connected, if indeed they did, and only some time after restarting did I even learn that there was an overarching story from Morrowind->Clockwork->Summerset, I'd assumed they'd be self-contained and I still don't really know how Elswyr fits in .. and know nothing of Mirkmire!

I agree with this thread, ZOS has made a pig's ear of creating a coherent set of stories and sign-posting the 'correct' order in which to do them, because there IS a correct order and if you don't follow it, as noted above, confusion reigns!

Starlight_Knight

Every time i make a new char now i just put my fingers in my ears and go "la la la la la" and quickly run out of whatever FOTM starting zone they plonked me in. and my game officially starts when i meet my benefactor, or wherever i chose.

Iccotak

If players just want to go right to the DLC with a new character, or go fast level a character, then just let them go there after they skip the tutorial.
Simpler and more straightforward than having players start in the DLC and having to go back to start in the base game.

RogueShade

Anyone else notice the main questline is no longer only accessible every 5 levels?

Nemesis7884

i would just make it optional anf have you choose when you start a new character if you want to go original, or newest chapter or skipp (to newest chapter)

Iccotak

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i would just make it optional anf have you choose when you start a new character if you want to go original, or newest chapter or skipp (to newest chapter)

Sounds like unnecessary options at the start when players can already travel wherever they want after the Tutorial, which they can skip if they want.
For new players and immersion focused players just have one tutorial that starts at the base game - then let them be free if they so choose.

LadyHeloise

For once I agree with people - Coldharbour should be the default tutorial, which you can skip if you want but you are dumped on the starter islands. If you want to then play the latest expansions you can go there then. The zone guides for the started islands could be updated to explain this, or some other mechanic could be added to help new players. Experienced players will know what to do, but new players should be guided a bit more in their choice of where they could go next.

I am very glad that when I started playing there was none of this confusion so I know the order the stories, expensions, quest lines etc should be played in, but new players must be often confused - this game is so huge and such a steep learning curve and not everyone automatically has friends to play with or explain things.

Slimebrow

yeah I agree. It doesn't make much sense anyways IMO just leave the tutorial areas alone

AcadianPaladin

All I've been asking for since they came up with the first 'not Coldharbour' tutorial is to simply give us the option to start in the original tutorial.

Ri_Khan

Yeah there's this thing called "continuity" which is an important story-telling concept taught in just about every basic Writing 101 course, ever. Apparently none of that matters here because marketing hype is much more important than a new players first impression. Just look at how convoluted the purchase options are for the base game and each chapter. Half the posts on the /r sub are people trying to figure out what they need to buy to even start playing. It's a mess and seems like it's done on purpose to maximize profits. Pathetic.

Michae

I agree. I started playing before any chapter was released so luckily I got to experience the story in correct order but I missed the tutorial for Morrowind, as I wasn't keen on making new characters back then. The completionist in me really doesn't like the Idea of replacing stuff and making the older versions inaccessible.

TheUndeadAmulet

RogueShade wrote: »

Anyone else notice the main questline is no longer only accessible every 5 levels?

It's been like that for ages. Probably pretty jarring for a new player to have an old man in a grey cloak start shouting at you every time you enter a town...

wait a second...

TheShadowScout

Iccotak wrote: »

I keep running into players both in the game and in the forums who ask what the best order to do the story in and let's face it; if you don't play the Story in release order it doesn't make sense.

And that is the sad truth!

All those respawns make no sense without vestige status. All those characters you meen torn from their storyline... how does it make sense to "rescue Abnur Tharn" when he is standing right in your starting city talking about dragons???

And it gets worse, like if you were to do summerset first and morrowind second... something that clearly screws with the story progression of a very important NPC... or do summerset before the mainstory, and mess up another important NPCs backstory sequence...

I mean, I get it, they wanted to give people the option to jump into the new stuff right away. But still... that should have been an -option- and not the new default!

Iccotak wrote: »

I think it's its bad game design and bad storytelling that new players trying to figure out the real Main Quest have to "Google it", or even, "ask more experienced players in zone chat." It works but its band aid solutions...

Yeah, and it would be -much- better if they had gone a different route... one that puts people on the rails for the mainstory, but gives them the -option- to skip ahead if they really want to. Things make so much morse sense that way!

I myself always think it would have been so much better of they had not made the new "tutorials" as -tutorials-, but... added them as "expansion intro".
Like... the first time your character goes to Vvardenfell, they cannot just wayshrine, but need to take the boat, which shipwrecks on firemoth isle... the first time your character follows queen Ayrenns invitation to summerset, they get intercepted by sea-sload magic and end up in the mind trap... the first time your character goes to elsweyr, they get caught in a dragon attack and end up rescued by some friendly khajhiit... etc.

Iccotak wrote: »

The Prologue Quests shouldn't be in the Crown store. sorry - not sorry

...they should be locked until the character gets there in story progression (unless someone specifically clicks some "open all stories right away" option!)

Actually, I wish ALL questings were by default "locked until you get there". Meaning no sturga looking for you until you finished at least the mainstory, possibly cadwells or craglorn even. No prequel quests cluttering up the starter cities, neither people worrying about the missing prophecy, not order of the eye dispatches or messages from vanus galerion... all those should come in sequence as the proper content is completed. (unless someone -specifically- enables an "all open" mode!)

Iccotak wrote: »

Fix the Original Tutorial, make it proper and Not Rushed. Here's how it should go.

1. Opening Cutscene
2. Create the character
3. A vision of the Prophet talks to you in your cell
4. Lyris breaks you out of your cell and you tell her about the prophet
5. You team up to break him out
6. Lyris hands you a weapon to use for now
7. You fight some enemies, get a basic idea of controls
8. You head to armory and find some gear, a couple pieces of armor, and varying choices of weapons if you want
9. Fight mini-boss
9. Sneak and Take out the Eyes
10. Meet Cadwell
11. break into Prophet's cell and get him out
12. Fight Boss
13. Take Skyshard & Esape Coldharbor
14. Start in the Starter island of your faction

I'd switch #8 towards and addition to #6 - let lyris point out some defeated guards you can loot for the weapon of your choice, so you start with whatever skill line you actually want.

Heck, personally I would have wished we would start classless, and pick up our class the same way... during the tutorial, getting a "pick one of the choices" moment... like looting pre-deceased former prisoners in your cell; grab the dunmer mages spellbook, become a sorceror, grab the breton priests holy symbol, become a templar, grab the nord guards dragon amulet, become a DK, grab the argonian assassins cloak... uhhh... hood... and become a nightblade... with later addition of the bosmers wooden totem for warden and the altmers skull for necromancy...

...even better would have been to make each of those "power source" choices two skill lines only, and let people select "elemental affinity" of fire, ice, shock, earth, spirit (heals) and shadow (stealth) seperately for more combination fun!

Alas. Paths not taken.

Imryll

And award a skill point for completing chapter prequels (unless a character has already done a tutorial for that chapter).

necr0o

This has annoyed me since Morrowind was released.. and should be changed ASAP.
It's pretty impossible for a new player to pick ESO up and start the Base Games - Main Quest
without doing a lot of digging around and asking in zones on where to start.

Not beginning in the Wailing Prison - was an awful decision on ZOS behalf
least give us an option to start from Wailing Prison, or the newest zone Tutorial.. options are always nice right??

Iccotak

@TheShadowScout

I myself always think it would have been so much better of they had not made the new "tutorials" as -tutorials-, but... added them as "expansion intro".
Like... the first time your character goes to Vvardenfell, they cannot just wayshrine, but need to take the boat, which shipwrecks on firemoth isle... the first time your character follows queen Ayrenns invitation to summerset, they get intercepted by sea-sload magic and end up in the mind trap... the first time your character goes to elsweyr, they get caught in a dragon attack and end up rescued by some friendly khajhiit... etc.

I Could Not Agree More.

Iccotak

Let's put this as an option (added to the OP)

In the Collections menu give players the option to activate DLCs and Chapters if they want to start one
This way when a new player is starting they are not bombarded by DLC and Chapter characters clamoring for their attention - like Abnur Tharn talking about Dragons when the player is in the middle of the Plane Meld storyline

Tipsy

I don't think they should stop making new tutorials for each area
But,as far as I can remember,in each tutorial the player had to pick up a greatsword
and the tutorial feels a little too pre-chewed.
So I think adding more flexability to the tutorial might be better,allowing a new player to choose any weapon.Providing a tutorial depnding on the type of weapon the new player chooses.
This would probably mean expanding the current tutorial.

I think eventually they can give all players the option to start in any of the starting areas ever made.
While we have the option to skip the intro area,we don't have the option to skip the tutorial,so in the question to play/skip the intro area,
there could also be a tiny check box to include or skip the tutorial

Tyrobag

I don't mind having alternate tutorials, but we need to be able to choose the one we want, not be automatically forced into the latest one.

ChunkyCat

Alcast is the only real Tutor.

DMBCML

Agreed. Let the new player's first character experience the best game, start in Coldharbour. New players don't really get the full and best experience when they are dumped into expansion zones. They miss the most awesome story (and whole point of the beginning game). The Coldharbour tutorial should be the only tutorial, that can be skipped by players who have played it already. When they start in other regions the tutorials feel like an after thought and leaves the player confused about what the game is about.

zaria

Hluill wrote: »

Agree completely, start with Coldharbor! It explains everything!

The newer tutorials are becoming weaker and weaker in describing and demonstrating game mechanics.

Is it my imagination or is less thought being placed in immersion? For those that don't care: great, play on. But I am feeling like my playstyle is being ignored as content becomes less immersive...

~shrugs~

This, rater improve on the original tutorial and make the next starter an extension of the prologue quest,

However I have an feeling they make the tutorials so we makes new alts however people would roll wardens and necromancers anyway

Shawn_PT

I've been saying this for a long long time. I was lucky enough to have started playing the game when there was only the IC and freshly released Orsinium available. And even then I was confused enough to 'waste' my first purchase on the IC DLC when all I wanted to buy was the imperial race.

So many people I've come across that have no idea what the ESO story is. A few months ago I had to guide a player I found in Khenarthi's Roost. They had spent weeks completely lost. Had no idea where they were, apparently had been running quests in Rivenspire, and didn't even know how to properly travel between zones. I had to help them figure which alliance they belonged to, where to go to start the main quest, and in which order to play through the maps/Fighters/Mages/Main Quest.

Another example with a guildy, who had been in the game for a while and also had no idea there was something like a main quest. I explained them that 'Summerset' and the nonsensical sequence with disembodied voices in that tutorial area filled with floating brain cells was NOT the beginning of the game. I had to explain them that there was actually a reason for our character to be 'unique' and different from the regular mortals around, and that it served as an explanation for the whole 'you have no soul' reaction we get on some quests. I showed them the proper game intro, the whole 40 minutes or so of proper cinematics where we see the three alliance heroes, how the chains fell, how the world was ravaged. And their reaction was 'OMG this is so amazing!!! Why have they removed this from the game?? Why don't they point us in the right direction?? Thank you so so much for showing this to me, for the first time the game makes sense!'

Indeed. Why have they removed the actual proper game intro just to showcase some footage of the newest map which makes zero sense in the grand scheme of things? Why have those beautiful cutscenes been thrown to YouTube for only a few to ever stumble upon? I feel this is a huge injustice towards the game. I understand that it's all about playing how you want where you want when you want. But even those players who actually want to start in the beginning and follow the storyline in the proper way are thrown into a whirlwind of messy quests and maps with no proper way of knowing where they are supposed to start. Give us an option. 'Where do you want to start? Beginning? Expansion A? Expansion B? And please.... bring back the Three Banners cutscenes. They were breathtaking. They made sense . They were the perfect beginning to an epic game with a wonderful story and such an incredible and rich world. This is an MMO, fine. We get it. But this is also an Elder Scrolls game where the story is one of, if not THE most important part. And the current system completely destroys the narrative.