Class Rep Program Update

No_Division

CAB_Life wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

We should just give the new reps a chance to prove their worth. ZOS has already made its choices. What good is nitpicking going to do?

Pretty much this. If we see in the rep meeting notes a discussion like "Players feel impenetrable needs to be nerfed or changed to something useful for both PvE and PvP" we know who to go after.

I guess this impenetrable thing is going to become a running gag, and we’re going to ignore any logic, explanation or the seven other videos or so that all feature proper PvP and mitigation setups. So I might as well embrace it!

Now that I’m inspired, I’m also going to advocate for increased lag to compensate for my, and others, trash PvP skills, more particle effects to blind and bedazzle the ninja-like elite who are a potato’s natural enemy, and just suggest that ZOS throw out collision detection and weaving ALTOGETHER—cause why not? Skill is hard, and life is hard enough, right? Let’s give ourselves a break.

That way all matches are like a figure skating competition where we just float and twirl and casually brush up against one another with no damage to our fragile egos.

I guess I should add the /s

Btw: I’ll be duelling tomorrow on PS4 NA for a new segment called “Dumpster Duels”, so swing on by Deeshan in the afternoon or hit me up on PSN if you want to play against my garbage builds! It’s a free win, according to the forums! (Not a joke, unlike the above, I will be duelling from 1-2:30pm EST.)

if you can get the devs to add additional sources of crit resists, you have my support lol. Taking 1.90 modifiers hurts lol.

There's no castable answer to minor force off RAT, they just added basically major crit resist buff to war horn but no 120 ult answer to lights champion's major force and there's no mundas answer for 13% shadow.

pattyLtd

Congrats to the new class reps and best of luck

It might not be officially dead but imho i cant really see how this system can ever have much value with everything being under some NDA but I hope i am wrong, it happened before

It also doesnt feel like zos wants any feedback so far but nothing against the class reps, its zos thats the problem here.

Hashtag_

Console

Masel

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Not sure what the point of this program is because so far what you've done is remove many classes' identities and nerfed them to the point where they're no longer fun to play. Magplar and Stam Warden are stronger then ever though...

Read this, then come back and repeat what you just said.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-class-rep-meeting-notes/

But I guess it's just easier to blame us.

No_Division

Masel wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Not sure what the point of this program is because so far what you've done is remove many classes' identities and nerfed them to the point where they're no longer fun to play. Magplar and Stam Warden are stronger then ever though...

Read this, then come back and repeat what you just said.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-class-rep-meeting-notes/

But I guess it's just easier to blame us.

we haven't had a proper meeting note in over a year? Or is that just Alcast hasn't updated since then?

Onefrkncrzypope

No_Division wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Not sure what the point of this program is because so far what you've done is remove many classes' identities and nerfed them to the point where they're no longer fun to play. Magplar and Stam Warden are stronger then ever though...

Read this, then come back and repeat what you just said.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-class-rep-meeting-notes/

But I guess it's just easier to blame us.

we haven't had a proper meeting note in over a year? Or is that just Alcast hasn't updated since then?

Uh.. ye

Kuratius

No_Division wrote: »

Lord_Zele wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Lord_Zele wrote: »

BIG YIKES

These forums are savage. At the end of the day people's intentions are positive. If you feel like someone isn't knowledgeable, then help them out. These are just the voices, help them have meaning.

Well I can agree with you here. These people dont need flack from both sides. I mean assuming they represent the community, it's clear our opinions often clash with the devs direction

100 Percent agreed. I don't agree with a lot of the changes in ESO myself, but I'm not going to really give our only voices (of some kind) feedback that won't help. It's all we really have, even if we feel like ZOS doesn't listen.

“Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.”
– Aristotle

AMeanOne wrote: »

Where'd all the other class reps go damn

From what o heard, one got banned for leaking the patch notes for this patch, two left for real life reasons, and joy got banned for letting people know why ZoS designed the necro after necro official realised.

Doesn't sound promising.

What was the reason necro was designed?

Dark_Lord_Kuro

All hail our new console evoy!

Zorgon_The_Revenged

No_Division wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Not sure what the point of this program is because so far what you've done is remove many classes' identities and nerfed them to the point where they're no longer fun to play. Magplar and Stam Warden are stronger then ever though...

Read this, then come back and repeat what you just said.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-class-rep-meeting-notes/

But I guess it's just easier to blame us.

we haven't had a proper meeting note in over a year? Or is that just Alcast hasn't updated since then?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427006/class-reps-meeting-notes-july-20/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431189/class-reps-meeting-notes-august-16/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/449203/class-reps-update-amp-meeting-notes-dec-7/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1

That's a years worth of notes, not including any non-meeting posts.

lefler90

Ulfgarde wrote: »

So ZOS had to get yesmen who don't know what they're talking about because some of the former reps actually had an opinion.

Very nice publicity stunt

Which ones don’t know what they’re talking about?

lefler90

SirAndy wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Nefas wrote: »

I'm the new Werewolf class rep you've wanted

@Nefas
You do realize that a raid dummy parse means absolutely nothing outside of a, wait for it, raid?
If that's your definition of "very viable" then we are doomed.
But yeah, class rep away, it can't get any worse, right? RIGHT?

@SirAndy You do realize that raids have highest requirement for DPS standard? If something is viable in a raid, it is viable everywhere else in PvE. 70k in raid dummy translates to around 40k in standard dummy. Which is more than enough for any content and I don't know why you would expect more with a single bar light attack rotation.

Parsing on a raid dummy says little about how a build/rotation is going to perform outside of an organized top level raid group.

Try that In a 4 player (or solo) vet dungeon where you won't have all the buffs/debuffs and you constantly need to move out of red, dodge, block, interrupt, heal, sustain, shield and generally pay attention to mechanics, and then report back here.
Then do the same in vMA. Then take that build to PvP.

A "Class" rep should understand that a class is used for more than just the top 1% of the game.

Blanket statements like the one above touting that a build is "very viable" solely based on a raid dummy parse shows just how out of touch with this game some people are.

I mean, I still pull 60-70k DPS in 4 man content with the exact same builds. Sooooooo.......

Tommy_The_Gun

lefler90 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Nefas wrote: »

I'm the new Werewolf class rep you've wanted

@Nefas
You do realize that a raid dummy parse means absolutely nothing outside of a, wait for it, raid?
If that's your definition of "very viable" then we are doomed.
But yeah, class rep away, it can't get any worse, right? RIGHT?

@SirAndy You do realize that raids have highest requirement for DPS standard? If something is viable in a raid, it is viable everywhere else in PvE. 70k in raid dummy translates to around 40k in standard dummy. Which is more than enough for any content and I don't know why you would expect more with a single bar light attack rotation.

Parsing on a raid dummy says little about how a build/rotation is going to perform outside of an organized top level raid group.

Try that In a 4 player (or solo) vet dungeon where you won't have all the buffs/debuffs and you constantly need to move out of red, dodge, block, interrupt, heal, sustain, shield and generally pay attention to mechanics, and then report back here.
Then do the same in vMA. Then take that build to PvP.

A "Class" rep should understand that a class is used for more than just the top 1% of the game.

Blanket statements like the one above touting that a build is "very viable" solely based on a raid dummy parse shows just how out of touch with this game some people are.

I mean, I still pull 60-70k DPS in 4 man content with the exact same builds. Sooooooo.......

Is ANY class solely about DPS ?

FenrisWolf1136

Nefas wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I have my doubts. Nefas seemed super happy about WW nerfs in one of his videos.
Idk about you, but a class rep being happy about sledge - hammer over-nerfs is kinda dangerous to this game...

If saying Werewolf isn't dead in PvE contrary to what people bemoaned and that the nerfs/adjustments were fine or necessary is me celebrating/being super happy, I guess I am?

Out of curiosity, from a pve only sort of standpoint, what of the last changes for werewolf did you feel were necessary and why? For pvp the changes make sense to me, but id like to see the standpoint from someone saying the changes for Justified for PVE. What content have you personally run and cleared with a werewolf?

JumpmanLane

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Nefas

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, from a pve only sort of standpoint, what of the last changes for werewolf did you feel were necessary and why? For pvp the changes make sense to me, but id like to see the standpoint from someone saying the changes for Justified for PVE. What content have you personally run and cleared with a werewolf?

In terms of the bigger picture, what’s strong in PvE can affect PvP adversely and vice versa. Also if you would like my actual perspective on it, then yes the overall damage nerfs (which weren’t even crippling nor that much as we confirmed in multiple threads and not just in my own video but Asian’s as well) were fine for what they were especially in comparison to the other nerfs. As for “justified” that’d be a wrong word to use in this case.

Certain components of the WW skills beyond the general nerfs were trade-offs, slight buffs or simple adjustments in line with what the devs seem to have in mind for now.

As an example of such trade offs here we have Infectious Claws:

Increased the damage of the initial hit by 25%.

Reduced the Damage over Time of these abilities by approximately 11% per tick.

Cost increases weren’t also detrimental for PVE, let’s take yet another look at one of the two PvE skills (Infectious Claws) that Werewolves has to achieve high numbers:

Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3442 from 3240

Not much of a sustain impact at all considering the mostly pure light attack rotation WWs do.

As the dev comment says:

“With our ongoing ability standard audit, we’ve taken Werewolf and set their abilities to be 25% “more” per cast, meaning when compared to a similar ability category, the Werewolf version should deal 25% more damage but cost 25% more. Note this value is subject to change. We're also aware of some Werewolf abilities feeling "bare" in nature (such as Pounce) and are currently investigating some additional variation to help spice up their combat approach.”

In addition I think there is a weird standard amongst some players with doing too high of a DPS without much effort at all in comparison to the more complicated rotations. Yes, 80k+ DPS single target on a raid dummy is a lot for simply light attacking. In comparison top DPS can get 90-100k DPS on raid dummies. The gap is not that far off and this leads us to two arguments that I see pop up a lot:

1) Well isn’t that what WWs do? We’re restricted in that we only do light attacks/two or so skills for PvE. Why would we use such an expensive ultimate to do less DPS than others at all?

The main point is that the damage is enough for what it is despite the high ult cost in addition to the duration buff WWs received at this point in time. A counter to this argument can also be found on the other end of the spectrum as well: Magblade DPS is hard to pull off for little reward compared to the more static rotation of other classes atm. Why invest so much time into something that does less DPS than most other classes? I think the devs did a great job of making WWs finally viable for PvE DPS with Wolfhunter and a great job of making damage adjustments as time went by much like how they want to do with the Necro class.

I think the devs definitely wanted WW to be strong enough to do vMA and still be fun/strong to bring to raids while at the same time being enjoyable after zero presence in PvE. And they accomplished this on the Scalebreaker PTS with reasonable adjustments. The things you can do on Live you can still do on PTS.

Werewolf DPS is far from dead and is more than viable though it seems the people who have been attacking me or my position didn’t bother testing this or are too caught up in reacting to the overall nerfs much like how so many people reacted negatively on reflex to most of the Scalebreaker patch notes that weren’t actually all that bad.

2) Why does any of this matter? Werewolves aren’t wanted in high end content anyway. Why would you want us to get nerfed?

The first point is debatable, I know other endgame colleagues of mine who used it for clears/progression raids. As for why people in top endgame guilds don’t bring WWs to raids, it is because they want to min-max as much damage as they can. I can assure you if WWs were pulling the highest numbers they’d be bringing WWs. But again we run into both PvP balancing/ZOS’ vision for combat play. And for some reason some people have accused me of hating WWs or being a threat to WW players which is amusing. But from a logical perspective, as for why it matters, PvP and PVE are balanced together in ESO (unfortunately) so if that were not the case and everything was balanced around PvE making everything close to one another without risk of upsetting PvP balance I could care less what anyone pulls on whatever but that’s certainly not our reality. So every time I say “necessary” it is from a holistic view not just one perspective.

I think perhaps instead of being obsessed with just the damage numbers...which again for some reason is strange to me as the same people who vehemently told me I’m an idiot that they used it for overland or content that was easily done even with the nerfs in the first place?.... we should be more concerned with seeing the pain points of the Pack Leader morph and if there would be an interesting or even an option for people to somehow incorporate werewolves in actual raid compositions as has been expressed. I’ve already stated my interested opinion on the latter in the WW feedback thread.

As for what content I’ve done with werewolves, a loooong time ago I would PvP as a Werewolf (even fought LeftyLucy as a werewolf while he was one) and even prowl IC. For PVE, my first dungeon clear was as a werewolf a long time ago and I continued to use it for some time until I moved on. And I’m sure as AndyS has demonstrated far too easily, I can probably get Flawless Conqueror in vMA as a werewolf right now or on the PTS if I set aside time for it.

John_Falstaff

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

Onefrkncrzypope

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

Quantum is hands off but he still is decent at PvP feedback. Though dk thread is dead. I just don't think too many forum goers are dks or at least have meaningful feedback. Heck every other post is about werewolf or ranged lol I jump in if there is any good conversations. As do you John. Bare the torch until my summer classes finish and I will return to double the players in there. lmao

NBrookus

DKs are being quiet because DKs are in a good spot and it's been a long trek to get there.

Sanguinor2

NBrookus wrote: »

DKs are being quiet because DKs are in a good spot and it's been a long trek to get there.

PvE dks (dps ones) would talk if, there were any left that is.

JumpmanLane

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

I saw @Quantum_V TODAY! On an EP! I’m pretty sure I creeped him out. I just stood looking at him and he broke camp! Lol.

He MUST be testing something!

John_Falstaff

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

Quantum is hands off but he still is decent at PvP feedback. Though dk thread is dead. I just don't think too many forum goers are dks or at least have meaningful feedback. Heck every other post is about werewolf or ranged lol I jump in if there is any good conversations. As do you John. Bare the torch until my summer classes finish and I will return to double the players in there. lmao

True, that. It's a shame people keep trickling away from DKs, and I don't have that much to contribute since I'm doing more tanking nowadays than damage. Maybe with Scalebreaker I'll shake up and try if refresher to vMA DW finally feels organic on DK. Though we may put a "brb" sign on the thread's door in the meantime, I'll be on vacation and traveling abroad whole August myself. ^^

And @JumpmanLane , that's inspiring - you see him there, poke him with something and tell that we need him. ^^

JumpmanLane

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

Quantum is hands off but he still is decent at PvP feedback. Though dk thread is dead. I just don't think too many forum goers are dks or at least have meaningful feedback. Heck every other post is about werewolf or ranged lol I jump in if there is any good conversations. As do you John. Bare the torch until my summer classes finish and I will return to double the players in there. lmao

True, that. It's a shame people keep trickling away from DKs, and I don't have that much to contribute since I'm doing more tanking nowadays than damage. Maybe with Scalebreaker I'll shake up and try if refresher to vMA DW finally feels organic on DK. Though we may put a "brb" sign on the thread's door in the meantime, I'll be on vacation and traveling abroad whole August myself. ^^

And @JumpmanLane , that's inspiring - you see him there, poke him with something and tell that we need him. ^^

You have fun on your trip. If I see him again I’ll give him an earful! I dueled him once long ago when I was first learning MagDk (I got mopped lol). I fought him once or twice on his DC long ago. He was tanky af even for then.

I was glad to see him on an EP. Quantum is the only one of the reps I’ve seen in action. The only one I KNOW can brawl. If he can’t save DK (Stam or Mag), no one can.

No dev plays the class at a high level, certainly not as well as Quantum.

Glory

JumpmanLane wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

I saw @Quantum_V TODAY! On an EP! I’m pretty sure I creeped him out. I just stood looking at him and he broke camp! Lol.

He MUST be testing something!

I see Quantum on his DK all the time

I also test extensively on mine too, although right now I'm more focused on magcro!

JumpmanLane

Glory wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

I saw @Quantum_V TODAY! On an EP! I’m pretty sure I creeped him out. I just stood looking at him and he broke camp! Lol.

He MUST be testing something!

I see Quantum on his DK all the time

I also test extensively on mine too, although right now I'm more focused on magcro!

I hadn’t seen him in a while. Yesterday was 1st time in a long time. Oddly enough I felt pretty good about it. Like SOMEONE with some measure of input is actually playing the game.

ccmedaddy

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FoolishOptimist wrote: »

I’m living for the responses left by @CAB_Life already. Seems level-headed and tempered. I look forward to seeing you represent your community!

I’d have loved to see @ESO_Nightingale on this list; they’ve championed for Wardens tirelessly on these forums.

Eitherway, congratulations and good luck to our new reps.

Thank you! I already knew i wasn't going to be accepted. I didn't include my documents and i still need some more experience. I will probably sign up next time!

- Magwarden players

(we still love you ❤️ )

Quantum_V

John_Falstaff wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

At least Quantum is still around...SAVE DK!

Is he? Last message is from January 23rd. The DK feedback thread have grown a little desolate in the meantime.

I've been lurking haha

ESO_Nightingale

ccmedaddy wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FoolishOptimist wrote: »

I’m living for the responses left by @CAB_Life already. Seems level-headed and tempered. I look forward to seeing you represent your community!

I’d have loved to see @ESO_Nightingale on this list; they’ve championed for Wardens tirelessly on these forums.

Eitherway, congratulations and good luck to our new reps.

Thank you! I already knew i wasn't going to be accepted. I didn't include my documents and i still need some more experience. I will probably sign up next time!

- Magwarden players

(we still love you ❤️ )

Thanks! I'm still fighting for magicka warden.

Sedare

How does one become a class rep? What is the process, to whom do I need to speak with?

Tommy_The_Gun

Xvorg

Anhedonie wrote: »

Please, don't use the reps as meat shields for your PR stunt and treat them well.
After all, you have reps to thank for the fact that necro has more than 2 stamina skills.

Pretty much this. Since day one I considered it the Scapegoat's program