Class Rep Program Update

Glory

Odovacar wrote: »

This is outside of the current topic right now but @CAB_Life (consoles) seems pretty cool...he was going to join one of my groups a few weeks ago but I had to log off unexpectedly. True to his word..."when I'm on hit me up for questions or if you need a role".

That's great to hear

Unparagoned1994

Fix the balance in pve! 8 stamina necromancers for dps is so dull but no other classes even compare class reps shoulda been on this almost 2 patches ago... and a buff to other sets or debuff to lok would be nice to see some diversity.. the magick side if the game has some I guess..

Artorias24

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

While the last couple updates have largely focused on the ongoing ability audits, we’ll be moving back to having regular calls with the Class Reps and posting public meeting notes very soon.

Any Updates on this? Its 2020 now.....

Seraphayel

Artorias24 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

While the last couple updates have largely focused on the ongoing ability audits, we’ll be moving back to having regular calls with the Class Reps and posting public meeting notes very soon.

Any Updates on this? Its 2020 now.....

Well, they stated that they’ve finished the ability audits. Guess we’ll get that info as soon as they announce the new annual DLC plan and the new Chapter.

One of the main features this year might be reworked classes instead of getting a new class / skill line.

Ragnarock41

Seraphayel wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

While the last couple updates have largely focused on the ongoing ability audits, we’ll be moving back to having regular calls with the Class Reps and posting public meeting notes very soon.

Any Updates on this? Its 2020 now.....

Well, they stated that they’ve finished the ability audits. Guess we’ll get that info as soon as they announce the new annual DLC plan and the new Chapter.

One of the main features this year might be reworked classes instead of getting a new class / skill line.

More importantly I would appreciate if they looked back on some of the abilities and mechanics they left in a questionable state.

What all these changes did was changing the meta rather than achieving balance or accomplishing any kind of vision. While some of the changes are positive (attention to guild/weapon abilities was nice at first but turned into a nerfing fest really quick) the end result was the biggest disappointment since morrowind.

AMeanOne

I had completely forgot the class reps were even a thing

Dylanlucas

Any love for Magicka DK from the reps or dev's even?

Wotan537

Dear Dev,
infinite lag in cyro, every event always full of bugs.
Is Eso suppose to be playable ?
Wanna talk about class balance ? Class skills ? 90% templar in pvp ("hi i'm a noob, which class should i play, using only 3skills?")
We dont need dlc, we need a playable game.
dont waste your time answerin me, try to fix this mess. 5 years have passed.

stamcro

Agreed. Console or pc can we please just get this game working properly before adding more content !

Stoltverd

I really do hope that the PvE representatives talk about the stupid magic shield when you block in PvE.
It was on PvP, was and is not needed in PvE.
It has been asked to be removed since it was introduced 3 years ago for PvE and ZOS hasn't even said a thing...
The ability to turn it off AT LEAST only for you, would be AMAZING.

Expert

The Class Rep Program has been discontinued awhile ago, they were rephrased as Combat Reps, which then lead further down the road to termination. We'll just have to embrace what ZOS gives us, community feedback can be done without Combat Reps if they just took notes and considered what the majority of players want via forums, in-game reports, etc.

Don't get heated up over balance changes, being nonconstructive divides the point you want to get across to ZOS.

Thicclady

Is there open application system as class rep? Because it feels it is inside circle thing, and I don't think that is fair.

John_Falstaff

I'm not even sure if it's still a thing. Apparently ZOS doesn't value class reps any longer. The silly HA/LA changes rolled out, and reps were sitting quiet, every single one of them (under NDA? or just weren't informed at all?), this decision with vMA weapons also was surely was made against them advising not to (at least I hope). I don't think the program is in fact alive.

Onefrkncrzypope

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm not even sure if it's still a thing. Apparently ZOS doesn't value class reps any longer. The silly HA/LA changes rolled out, and reps were sitting quiet, every single one of them (under NDA? or just weren't informed at all?), this decision with vMA weapons also was surely was made against them advising not to (at least I hope). I don't think the program is in fact alive.

They didn't know.

John_Falstaff

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm not even sure if it's still a thing. Apparently ZOS doesn't value class reps any longer. The silly HA/LA changes rolled out, and reps were sitting quiet, every single one of them (under NDA? or just weren't informed at all?), this decision with vMA weapons also was surely was made against them advising not to (at least I hope). I don't think the program is in fact alive.

They didn't know.

That'd explain, yes - though it doesn't make things any better, because it means reps aren't even trusted anymore with anything. Even when meetings were held, before, reps basically were used to stream information from us to devs, but don't think much of it was going in the opposite direction, towards reps.

Schattenfluegel

Well they do know and argument against it. Problem is...ZOS doesnt really listen to their feedback ^^

Beardimus

Is the Class Rep program still running?

Sanguinor2

Beardimus wrote: »

Is the Class Rep program still running?

Technically it is I guess. I feel it is Pretty pointless tho if our reps are not allowed to talk to us because of NDA.

Onefrkncrzypope

They are are a sounding board for more sensitive ideas. Probably like vampire changes. The point of the program is to have only ten ppl freak instead of the whole community.

John_Falstaff

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

They are are a sounding board for more sensitive ideas. Probably like vampire changes. The point of the program is to have only ten ppl freak instead of the whole community.

Judging by their current silence, they're in permanently freaked out state over the course of the last updates.

Masel

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

They are are a sounding board for more sensitive ideas. Probably like vampire changes. The point of the program is to have only ten ppl freak instead of the whole community.

Judging by their current silence, they're in permanently freaked out state over the course of the last updates.

We're still very active, we are just not operating as "public" these days. Due to to the fact that we gravitated more and more towards talking about prospective, NDA-protected stuff with the devs, we cannot publish the notes of meetings. At some point, most of the retrospective feedback we could provide on existing content was delivered, so providing it again would be redundant. We still provide early feedback on lots of ideas and concepts they present, we still anticipate a lot of backlash that changes might bring (such as the non-upgrading of arena weapons). Some of the balance changes we see in advance and the Devs consider our feeedback early on, some things we only see at the same time as other players do. Especially the latter is frustrating because we're often in situations where we think "if we'd known that earlier, we could've told you it wouldn't be a good thing to do".


What the Devs do with the feedback we provide is totally up to them.We could provide the public with a diary of all the feedback we give them, but most of that is under NDA, so it would only be the stuff that refers to existing content and it is quite tedious work to do (we are still volunteers).

John_Falstaff

@Masel , don't take it close to heart, but I feel that the whole affair severely lacks transparency. LA/HA changes hit the PTS, and we're left to guess whether you all were informed and whether you warned ZOS just how much resonance that failed experiment would bring. Arena weapons aren't upgradable - and we're again guessing what kind of back-and-forth is going between you and ZOS; whether they never even told you, whether you told them it's a bad idea but they didn't say anything back, told them it's a bad idea but they provided some reasoning, or maybe even told them it's okay and we'll swallow that. At some point you were preprocessing information from other players to feed to ZOS; then, things changed and under NDA, you got involved deeper... but at the same time the players lost the feeling that program works. Changes come. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Bad changes more often than good, and nobody's sure if we - through reps - had any say in it, and if they were made because of, or despite, or without knowledge of. The only feedback for us is the end result ZOS dumps on us.

furiouslog

Masel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

They are are a sounding board for more sensitive ideas. Probably like vampire changes. The point of the program is to have only ten ppl freak instead of the whole community.

Judging by their current silence, they're in permanently freaked out state over the course of the last updates.

We're still very active, we are just not operating as "public" these days. Due to to the fact that we gravitated more and more towards talking about prospective, NDA-protected stuff with the devs, we cannot publish the notes of meetings. At some point, most of the retrospective feedback we could provide on existing content was delivered, so providing it again would be redundant. We still provide early feedback on lots of ideas and concepts they present, we still anticipate a lot of backlash that changes might bring (such as the non-upgrading of arena weapons). Some of the balance changes we see in advance and the Devs consider our feeedback early on, some things we only see at the same time as other players do. Especially the latter is frustrating because we're often in situations where we think "if we'd known that earlier, we could've told you it wouldn't be a good thing to do".


What the Devs do with the feedback we provide is totally up to them.We could provide the public with a diary of all the feedback we give them, but most of that is under NDA, so it would only be the stuff that refers to existing content and it is quite tedious work to do (we are still volunteers).

So can you share any insight on the plan to not upgrade the arena weapons? Because I seriously don't understand the rationale.

John_Falstaff

I've an urge of adding to it, I can't stand. What I want to say is... Mind, it's my personal thing, not sure if others muse about such things, but I'm a simple thing, I do. Sometimes I wonder - just one mental picture out of many - if somewhere deep in the bowels of Zenimax there happens a talk between a rep and some dude (well, it may be a gal, but let's say dude for simplicity), where rep is given early glimpse on the upcoming sets, and he looks at the dude, looks at the sets, looks at the dude again, and says: I want to assure you that this Roaring Opportunist set will not be used by magicka DDs, for any number of reasons, because nobody runs HA builds and moreover people loathe HA rotations and won't be doing them, because tracking off-balance without addons is hard, because it'll be personal damage nerf, because DDs aren't in best position to use it, because this set will shine on heals/tanks, so hear me out, make it a support set and make some actual other set magDDs will enjoy. And then... then I wonder as to what happens next. Does dude just ignore the rep? Or does dude say, thank you for your feedback, and then walks away and nothing changes and the set gets released as magDD set? Or even, maybe, the dude looks into rep's eyes, and I muse what kind of facial expression the dude has then, and says: no-no, I am sure that this set will be ran by mag DDs, it is most obvious choice for a mag DD, they will love it; and then I wonder what kind of thoughts are going in that dude's head when he says that.

Those small insights seem insignificant, but they matter. Because by now, for me - and I'm pretty sure for many, many others too - Zenimax have turned into an ancient chthonic beast with many heads, beast nobody can fathom. Sometimes that beast makes decisions; sometimes understandable and dictated by simple mercantile desires, because the beast is ever-hungry and constantly wants to feed; sometimes completely alien and otherwordly. And to enjoy the game at least a bit, one needs to understand that beast and learn the rules it's playing by, because without understanding rules and managing to predict the next move, the game becomes too volatile. You start playing a class, and next patch the silent, lurking beast bites your head off. You decide to farm a set, and next patch the beast bites your head off. You invest your time in some content, and the beast bites your head off. The beast does not talk; it does not offer dialogue. It's malicious, because it always hurts and offers no explanations as to why (and when it occasionally does, they're obvious lies, the beast can't lie really well). And at the end, you realize that you can't understand the beast's motives and will never be safe from it, it will not talk, it will not reason, it will just watch you and as soon as you'll feel too comfortable and start enjoying your time, it will bite your head off, and you also realize that you have to move on, find another game where local beast is smaller and maybe even more humane. That's how it is.

asalemi

Professors of a video game. Lol. Dear oh Dear

idk

Masel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

They are are a sounding board for more sensitive ideas. Probably like vampire changes. The point of the program is to have only ten ppl freak instead of the whole community.

Judging by their current silence, they're in permanently freaked out state over the course of the last updates.

We're still very active, we are just not operating as "public" these days. Due to to the fact that we gravitated more and more towards talking about prospective, NDA-protected stuff with the devs, we cannot publish the notes of meetings. At some point, most of the retrospective feedback we could provide on existing content was delivered, so providing it again would be redundant. We still provide early feedback on lots of ideas and concepts they present, we still anticipate a lot of backlash that changes might bring (such as the non-upgrading of arena weapons). Some of the balance changes we see in advance and the Devs consider our feeedback early on, some things we only see at the same time as other players do. Especially the latter is frustrating because we're often in situations where we think "if we'd known that earlier, we could've told you it wouldn't be a good thing to do".


What the Devs do with the feedback we provide is totally up to them.We could provide the public with a diary of all the feedback we give them, but most of that is under NDA, so it would only be the stuff that refers to existing content and it is quite tedious work to do (we are still volunteers).

@Masel

That is all great. However, I suggest you read what Gina actually stated in the second to last paragraph.

First, she says the group is to ensure our voice is being heard. Second, she clearly indicates we will see some sort of notes being posted. I fully expect that even with the NDA there is something Zos can say yet they have chosen not to. As a result, we have little to no reason to believe your group is ensuring our voices are being heard.

Understand, this is not about those that are class reps. This is about the choice Zos has made to not communicate with us. With this blackout, we are right to question if the class rep program is still active and our voices are being heard. We are right to question if this group still has value for us.

Altyrann

Ignoring upcoming changes and NDA issues, I'd settle for some mechanism of seeing which known bugs are acknowledged and being worked on. There are still plenty to choose from!

Universe

Class Reps or not, the imbalance between the Classes is so severe right now that any attempt to fix it will take a considerable effort.

Vaoh

It’s not much of a Class Rep program when the community doesn’t even know if the program still exists.

There should be updates at the top of the forums minimum 2-3 times per patch regarding major changes being worked on.... if the vast majority of your community says NO DO NOT NERF LIGHT ATTACKS BY 78%, well that’s a clear indication to not waste so much time and resources on changes which will be scrapped for sure. We felt like we were being trolled when we first read the off-cycle PTS patch notes.... it even caused conspiracy threads to pop up claiming you were planning to scrap the changes but wanted to make an example from this on how you “listened to the community”. This was the same when adding the infamous AoE Caps way long ago, or shield cast times, or Scalebreaker to Dragonhold massive DoT adjustments.

We know you’re trying to do better for the game (obviously) but you need to seriously listen to all of the feedback from your Class Reps and *implement it*. Likely all of it. It clearly isn’t enough to ask for pain points and then come up with all of the solutions yourselves. Allow the Class Reps to have a bigger presence in balance changes and run absolutely everything balance-wise through them. That would be a good start.

Everyone talks badly about these Devs which is so sad to see for a great game. There is a disconnect between the Devs and their community. I always hope ESO will take a turn for the better since every patch for over a year has degraded in both gameplay and performance, especially on console. Get it together ZOS It’s shocking to watch gameplay from Imperial City, Orsinium, Dark Brotherhood, Homestead, etc and see just how awesomely fluid and reactive the gameplay used to be. Murkmire was the final patch where Dungeon content performed perfectly flawless on my PS4 Pro. It’s not even close to how it used to be, and as much as Id like to Sub+buy crowns for a game I like so much, I haven’t been able to justify it for a really long time.

reiverx

Vaoh wrote: »

It’s not much of a Class Rep program when the community doesn’t even know if the program still exists.

There should be updates at the top of the forums minimum 2-3 times per patch regarding major changes being worked on.... if the vast majority of your community says NO DO NOT NERF LIGHT ATTACKS BY 78%, well that’s a clear indication to not waste so much time and resources on changes which will be scrapped for sure. We felt like we were being trolled when we first read the off-cycle PTS patch notes.... it even caused conspiracy threads to pop up claiming you were planning to scrap the changes but wanted to make an example from this on how you “listened to the community”. This was the same when adding the infamous AoE Caps way long ago, or shield cast times, or Scalebreaker to Dragonhold massive DoT adjustments.

We know you’re trying to do better for the game (obviously) but you need to seriously listen to all of the feedback from your Class Reps and *implement it*. Likely all of it. It clearly isn’t enough to ask for pain points and then come up with all of the solutions yourselves. Allow the Class Reps to have a bigger presence in balance changes and run absolutely everything balance-wise through them. That would be a good start.

Everyone talks badly about these Devs which is so sad to see for a great game. There is a disconnect between the Devs and their community. I always hope ESO will take a turn for the better since every patch for over a year has degraded in both gameplay and performance, especially on console. Get it together ZOS It’s shocking to watch gameplay from Imperial City, Orsinium, Dark Brotherhood, Homestead, etc and see just how awesomely fluid and reactive the gameplay used to be. Murkmire was the final patch where Dungeon content performed perfectly flawless on my PS4 Pro. It’s not even close to how it used to be, and as much as Id like to Sub+buy crowns for a game I like so much, I haven’t been able to justify it for a really long time.

As someone who has worked as a dev since the mid 80s, I hate to see this. But.... I feel they are in way over their heads. There is hardly an area in the game that doesn't have some major or minor issue.

There was a point in time where the game was still in a state where it could be repaired if given they time and attention it needed.