New training dummy

Jagdkommando

Can you please add 3-6m version of trial dummy, cuz killing 20m+ hp dummy with trial group is one thing, but this...

Will be much better to test, anyway after 30 seconds of dps pars its clear how much is your approx dps

Jagdkommando

Ah forgot @ZOS_GinaBruno

BattleAxe

FYI hit the buff dummy then do ur parse on the 3 or 6 mil you get the buffs just not the debuffs

highkingnm

It really isn’t clear on classes with an execute or builds running bloodthirsty what your DPS is. On the trial dummy my stamcro will sit at 70k then jump to 79k after execute. I have to kill the whole dummy. You also even out proc skills (important for proc sets and fragsorcs), monster helms and ultimate usage. If you think 30 seconds will give you a good idea of DPS then you are mistaken. Not to mention there would be no sustain, as many would carve through a 3 or 6 mil in a ridiculously short time.

Kill the dummy and accept that it is high health to make up for high buffs. If you are hitting the levels of DPS where it is actually useful to you to practice on it over a 3/6 mil, it shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes.

Evito

You don't know anything about your build in 30 seconds...

Dummy takes around 4 mins to kill (less/more depending on class) and that's about the right amount of time. If it's taking you over 5 mins to kill you shouldn't be using it.

Fischblut

There will be new mysterious training dummy (no idea how will we get it):



But nothing else is known about it - neither how much health it will have nor if it will give any buffs I would love if it was same as Iron dummy, but with some less health.

Elwendryll

I'd like a smaller version with like 12M health just because of PTS.

On live, no problem, if you have 70k dps it takes exactly 5 minutes. So usually it takes between 4 and 5 minutes to kill.

But on PTS, there is ALWAYS something going wrong during these 4-5 minutes.

And yes, you can't find your dps with just 30 seconds. You need a sustained fight with a full execute phase to get a clear idea. Personally my dps is higher during the first 20 seconds then drop before going up again during execute (Amplitude sorc passive and ult dropped at the beginning...)

Jagdkommando

Did i get you right guys?? So you dont wanna 3-6m prototypes of trial dummy??

John_Falstaff

Fischblut wrote: »

There will be new mysterious training dummy (no idea how will we get it):



But nothing else is known about it - neither how much health it will have nor if it will give any buffs I would love if it was same as Iron dummy, but with some less health.

My best guess is, it will have same health as iron atro, no debuffs, and it will repeatedly bash the player during the parse. ^^

...sorry, I simply could not help it. ^^ But really, I suspect it'll be more like Precursor. And 4-5 minutes for a parse is a sweet spot, I think, new iron atro is way more representative and less affected by fluctuations of crit, less than perfect transitions into execute phase and so on and so forth. Anything less than that, and it's useless again.

SodanTok

Neithe 3M nor 6M dummy with all the buffs or debuffs would ever be good representation of DPS. And 30sec of parsing is not enough aprox of DPS. 15M would probably be minimum to get any useful results from parse.

UrbanMonk

There was a time when 3 mil Blood spawn was DPS standard, and then came 6 mil DUmmy and eventually 12 and 25 mil.
It's called progression. But not everyone makes a build for Trials DPS. Some of the people just want to see their DPS for dungeon and such and their Bosses as well have the same resistances and such. SO I don't see why not to have an option of lower health dummy with same features as the Iron Attro dummy.

John_Falstaff

@ToxicPAWS , thing is, I'm not sure there's a point. Iron atro allows you to extrapolate your damage onto dungeon bosses too, while low-health dummy with same debuffs won't allow you to extraplate results onto a trial boss. So why even bother.

kojou

I would like a 6 M dummy that has Breach, Fracture, and gives me synergies.

Full trial buffs would be too much.

Evito

kojou wrote: »

I would like a 6 M dummy that has Breach, Fracture, and gives me synergies.

Full trial buffs would be too much.

This is a reasonable request.

BeefyMrTips

I believe raid parses are to test dps with the idea of beating main bosses in trials, not little adds. The 3 mil does a great job representing a little add since you won’t get the debuffs on them. I would recommend hitting raid dummy once to get buffs and go straight to a 3 mil to simulate your dps on small adds.

There are different dps standards for different fights. If you are not ready to finish a 21mil in under 5min you are not ready for quite a few vet trials.

Side note don’t believe all the parses you seen on YouTube. A lot of them playing with 11k health lol

UrbanMonk

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ToxicPAWS , thing is, I'm not sure there's a point. Iron atro allows you to extrapolate your damage onto dungeon bosses too, while low-health dummy with same debuffs won't allow you to extraplate results onto a trial boss. So why even bother.

@John_Falstaff - I agree with what you say but my point is what's the harm in having the option? plus I don't want to spend 6k crowns to get that thing but rather be available for writ vouchers or something craftable.

Jagdkommando

SodanTok wrote: »

Neithe 3M nor 6M dummy with all the buffs or debuffs would ever be good representation of DPS. And 30sec of parsing is not enough aprox of DPS. 15M would probably be minimum to get any useful results from parse.

U are wrong man, just believe me as good dps parser, yes when you have very new build its almost impossible to feel real dps, but when you trying do higher dps than your own standards with okd well known build, you feel even on tenth second is everything good or ban, and thus every second just looking on numbers you can feel your character doing ok or no, also dont give me *** here pls about trial boss dummy, nobody ever stands in trial as my .... and parsing 25m+ Dps on boss, so what we have is between boss mechanics you do 3-6m parses with full buffs, also many people will try that for dungeon bosses

Royaji

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

There was a time when 3 mil Blood spawn was DPS standard, and then came 6 mil DUmmy and eventually 12 and 25 mil.
It's called progression. But not everyone makes a build for Trials DPS. Some of the people just want to see their DPS for dungeon and such and their Bosses as well have the same resistances and such. SO I don't see why not to have an option of lower health dummy with same features as the Iron Attro dummy.

snip

You will never have all of the buffs/debuffs that the Iron Atro provides in a dungeon though. So it's not a good option for estimating dungeon DPS in general.

John_Falstaff

kojou wrote: »

I would like a 6 M dummy that has Breach, Fracture, and gives me synergies.

Full trial buffs would be too much.

Again, wonder why? For dungeon bosses? If you're running with a decent tank and healer and have synergies in the group, you'll also have Alkosh, Minor and Major Courage (major from healer who'll probably be running SPC/Olorime, minor from tank - I recently tend to wear Yolnahkriin more than Ebon in dungeons), warhorn (from both, though with less uptime of course), likely decent Minor Vulnerability uptime (even if healer doesn't run IA in favor of Torug's or Jorvuld's, they probably have shock glyph on back bar with blockade), Minor Berserk from prayer. It's all achievable in a decent dungeon group. And testing dps for a poor pug group with minimal debuffs, don't see the point, you won't see that dps because, chances are, you'll be doing endless mechanics cycles with some resurrections in-between.

21mil parse is to work out nuances and fine points in rotation in a controlled environment with most sources of variance excluded. It's not to show you how you'll perform on this dungeon boss or that, or on the trash pack over yonder, no dummy will allow you to simulate that precisely. If you want to optimize that, get good consistent damage on 21mil, and then move on to running the dungeon you're interested in and analyzing combat logs. Chances are, your damage on a dungeon boss will correlate way less with your damage on raid-buffed 6mil, and way more with for how long you'd let your dots drop while doing some mechanics or dealing with adds.

@ToxicPAWS , agreed, that's true. But 6k crowns is exactly the reason why I don't think that, say, goliath dummy from screenshot above will be anything resembling Iron Atro. ZOS knows how to count money. ^^ So I wouldn't hold any hope. Now, I would enjoy having tunable atro with several (named and standardized) presets that would switch health and set of buffs, even for crowns, but I doubt we'll see that.

redlink1979

My thoughts regarding this: players don't really need a "trial dummy" since the dps dealt will be just increased by the buffs and debuffs provided. So, if you have a good parse at a 3/6 million dummy you will be fine in any situation.
Besides that, it's dps against a standing still enemy that doesn't attack you...

Royaji

redlink1979 wrote: »

My thoughts regarding this: players don't really need a "trial dummy" since the dps dealt will be just increased by the buffs and debuffs provided. So, if you have a good parse at a 3/6 million dummy you will be fine in any situation.
Besides that, it's dps against a standing still enemy that doesn't attack you...

The purpose of a trial dummy is creating an even field for all classes. Under such conditions you can perform objective comparisons with minimal outside influence like buffs, provided sustain and so on.

SidraWillowsky

BattleAxe wrote: »

FYI hit the buff dummy then do ur parse on the 3 or 6 mil you get the buffs just not the debuffs

What?!?!? How long does it give you the buffs for?