Make all pvp non cp?

leepalmer95

Most of the problems in pvp come from Cp just breaking the game. And cp isn't needed in pvp at all, there is nothing to progress. May even revitalise pvp a bit as new players would be more inclined to try pvp without a big cp wall in front of them, especially true on console where non cp is dead and there is only really 1 active campaign.

I know non cp has its own problems but it's generally better for pvp balance and if there is only non cp it will be easier for zos to balance it, rather that balance both.

VaranisArano

No thanks.

I've tried No CP PVP and didnt really care for it. I prefer CP PVP.

Can we maybe accept that other people have other preferences and not try to remove game modes they like in the name of "balance"?

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

VaranisArano wrote: »

No thanks.

I've tried No CP PVP and didnt really care for it. I prefer CP PVP.

Can we maybe accept that other people have other preferences and not try to remove game modes they like in the name of "balance"?

What didn't you like about it compared to cp pvp?

frostz417

No - Give reason please.

Both have their pro’s and con’s.
That being said just because you don’t like the other doesn’t mean you should force it down peoples throats.

VaranisArano

leepalmer95 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

No thanks.

I've tried No CP PVP and didnt really care for it. I prefer CP PVP.

Can we maybe accept that other people have other preferences and not try to remove game modes they like in the name of "balance"?

What didn't you like about it compared to cp pvp?

I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, you know? I've tried it. You aren't going to convince to like something I don't prefer from experience...that's the whole problem with you wanting to remove the option I do like.


Having done Both CP and No CP in BGs, I'd agree that for small scale play, the fast pace of No CP due to lack of sustain, less tankiness, and the effectiveness of proc sets in the correct choice. BGs are better with No CP.

But I primarily play Cyrodiil, and there I prefer to play Cyrodiil like an AvAvA game. I was not impressed with No CP Cyrodiil after playing on PC/NA Trueflame and Vivec. If anything, a good, organized group is even stronger compared to their opponents than on the CP campaigns because they can better compensate as a group for the weakness of No CP than their disorganized opponents can.


So no thanks. Please, try to come up with a solution for getting more players in your No CP campaign that isnt "let's remove the other game mode that players like so they have to play the way I want."

(Because the only lasting solution is for ZOS to fix the performance issues - that's what will actually bring many new players.)

Davadin

No - Give reason please.

if i've built and spend and practice for hours and hours and hours on my CP build, like damn, i want to use it. I enjoyed no CP when i was CP1 to around CP300~400, but after that? no way.

idk

No - Give reason please.

First off OP has clearly and consciously chosen to bias the poll by complaining about CP to begin with.

Second, you have a choice. Zos provides a no-CP campaign. With that available it makes you want to take things away from everyone else unless this is just to get a heated response.

And yes, I have done no-cp. Why I choose CP Cyrodiil over non-cp is irrelevant.

Rake

No - Give reason please.

non CP is for kids

Crixus8000

No - Give reason please.

While I hate cp pvp and never play it anymore, it would not be fair for all those that do.

Joy_Division

No - Give reason please.

Reason: Stop telling me what is good/skillful/"real" PvP and let me decide for myself.

Waffennacht

As much as I want to say yes, I know the majority wants CP, so I must say no

NuarBlack

Yes - Give reason please.

Everyone is going to say no cause of sunk cost fallacy and wanting to cling to a mistake because of their time investment but you are right the game would be easier to balance for the dev team if pvp used a different system and CP was left for pve.

Vermethys

No - Give reason please.

I play mostly BGs, but recently started playing IC and Cyrodiil. No-CP feels great in BGs, because the groups are theoretically even, the time is limited, and the area is constrained. You've got teammates to retreat to if you get outnumbered and 1vX doesn't truly exist (which is only good in this case because of time and objective constraints) -- things are fast paced, mistakes are less forgiving, but classes are generally less balanced.

In my brutally honest opinion, No-CP in Cyro and IC feels like voluntary self-torture -- except if you are playing a StamNB or MagSorc (which are currently the least balanced subclasses in open-world no-CP). Could be because I enjoy playing solo rather than in a duo or group. I prefer CP activated in Cyro and IC because (assuming similar skill level and CP level) classes feel more balanced. And if you happen to come across 2-3 players at once (which is very often) you at least have a fighting chance instead of outright exploding and respawning at a keep.

Emma_Overload

No - Give reason please.

No.

1) Imperial City and some other PvP areas contain PvE content that is clearly balanced for CP. Being perma-negated and chain-eclipsed by guards is especially hard on Magicka builds.

2) Stamina builds, which are already overpowered, suffer much less from the loss of max stats than Magicka builds, which depend on Max Magicka for shield size.

3) CP was supposed to be a progression system for long term players. Our progression should not be STOLEN from half the game without something given in return.

The ONLY circumstances under which I would support the removal of CP are:

1) CP is removed from the WHOLE GAME, not just PvP.

2) The whole game is balanced for No-CP.

3) Damage shields are re-balanced (i.e. buffed) to make up for the lost stats.

4) Players are given a SUBSTITUTE PROGRESSION SYSTEM to make up for the CP that we earned and lost!

Alucardo

No - Give reason please.

I only play on no cp because I find it more balanced, but I had to select "No" because I believe in giving people options. Some like CP, some don't. Let them choose.
Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep if they deleted the CP campaigns. While some people say "The game is designed around CP", I would argue it's not. People either get one shot, or simply don't die on CP campaigns. That doesn't sound like very good design, but that's just me.

Turelus

Yes - Give reason please.

I am in the "make the whole game no CP" crowd. The game was better before it (IMO).

baronzilch

No - Give reason please.

CP offers a way to 'round out' your spec and compensate for shortcomings. Without it the class system is pretty stagnant and boring. CP may add some complexity to the dev's workload, but, for most players being well-rounded in PvP is better than being min/maxed for a niche. That adds balance, not takes it away.

CP is easy to max out: just play the game for fun and you'll get there sooner then later. I found it easy to max, because I never tried; I just played the game and didn't worry about my 'level'. And I never had the benefit of a bajillion free xp scrolls that are now given to players to help either.

CP doesn't break the game. Cheaping out on server hardware and poor internal class/skill testing breaks the game. CP or not, those issues will persist, because it's a fundamental flaw in the developer mindset (and not just in this game) - no system, or lack of system, can compensate for that.

Waffennacht

baronzilch wrote: »

CP offers a way to 'round out' your spec and compensate for shortcomings. Without it the class system is pretty stagnant and boring. CP may add some complexity to the dev's workload, but, for most players being well-rounded in PvP is better than being min/maxed for a niche. That adds balance, not takes it away.

CP is easy to max out: just play the game for fun and you'll get there sooner then later. I found it easy to max, because I never tried; I just played the game and didn't worry about my 'level'. And I never had the benefit of a bajillion free xp scrolls that are now given to players to help either.

CP doesn't break the game. Cheaping out on server hardware and poor internal class/skill testing breaks the game. CP or not, those issues will persist, because it's a fundamental flaw in the developer mindset (and not just in this game) - no system, or lack of system, can compensate for that.

Imo, even server issues aside, a big problem is trying to balance both massive scale and small scale PvP with PvE

It's a three way split that's a pia to balance.

NuarBlack

Yes - Give reason please.

baronzilch wrote: »

CP offers a way to 'round out' your spec and compensate for shortcomings. Without it the class system is pretty stagnant and boring. CP may add some complexity to the dev's workload, but, for most players being well-rounded in PvP is better than being min/maxed for a niche. That adds balance, not takes it away.

CP is easy to max out: just play the game for fun and you'll get there sooner then later. I found it easy to max, because I never tried; I just played the game and didn't worry about my 'level'. And I never had the benefit of a bajillion free xp scrolls that are now given to players to help either.

CP doesn't break the game. Cheaping out on server hardware and poor internal class/skill testing breaks the game. CP or not, those issues will persist, because it's a fundamental flaw in the developer mindset (and not just in this game) - no system, or lack of system, can compensate for that.

With the way CP is designed this isn't true. CP is just a catch all improvement to your character. If it had real tradeoffs then that would be true but with the way the trees are designed you don't have to choose say defensive at the loss of offense and sustain. No you have trees for each of the 3 key balance points. Sure maybe you decide to take more dot damage at the expense of direct damage. Or more crit damage instead of penetration but that is usually a no brainer based on your build and is usually more of a doubling down than it is a rounding out.

The way CP is currently designed it is awful for pvp balance because there are no tradeoffs. At least in no cp sometimes you pick your mundus to round out what your 3 sets don't give you or you double down on something at the cost of not being able to get more of something you are lacking. CP could be like that if it were redesigned but the pve crowd would hate it.

Nevasca

No - Give reason please.

I think it's better to change and balance CP instead. For example: Remove healing (and reduce healing as well) from CP nodes. Also remove flat regen, and nerf block and roll dodge reduction since people would just put their points there. Then make the green CP more about the perks instead of stats by buffing/changing them.

CP is OP because you get so much healing and sustain, making the fights last forever which is boring. When I go to CP pvp and I find a good player, I will usually take 1-5 minutes to just kill him or die, considering I will not get bored and leave, or one of us get zerged. In non-cp it's rare for a fight (at least 1v1) to take more than 2 minutes, usually one of us will get out of resources or bursted, maybe both. If you block and cast <insert healing skill> until full health in non-CP, you will get punished for it instead of just recovering like nothing happened.

You know how I usually kill or die in CP? You drop into execute range and let them overextend without buffing themselves trying to execute you, and then you try a stun+burst combo. It gets boring realy quickly. You don't even need to spec into tanky sets in CP to be really tanky. Imagine speccing for regen and survival in CP LUL.

Marginis

No - Give reason please.

I would never advocate for less options unless it explicitly worsened players' experiences. As it is there are both CP and non-CP campaigns, so people who dislike CP can join a non-CP campaign. I'd maybe offer more options for non-CP campaigns, but I see no reason to take away campaigns. Same thing with BG. Why take away all CP when we could instead have a CP and a non-CP BG option?

Shanehere

No - Give reason please.

Although I prefer No-CP even at 810, I still think keeping both options open are better for the community. They warrant different styles of play and therefore align with a variety of preferences.

Also, having a massive grind to max CP only to find that there is no use for it in a major area of the game is silly and unfair.

Iskiab

No - Give reason please.

Why? It’s better to have options. People who want problems/broken builds go to CP. People who like more balance go to no-CP. People who like getting farmed go to CP under 810 CP.

Options are good.

katorga

No - Give reason please.

If you remove CP you have to replace with either new level -based progression, or new gear-based progression, or a replacement alternative advancement system. If the game becomes static, with progression revolving around what meta is getting nerfed this patch, you might as well shut it down.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

katorga wrote: »

If you remove CP you have to replace with either new level -based progression, or new gear-based progression, or a replacement alternative advancement system. If the game becomes static, with progression revolving around what meta is getting nerfed this patch, you might as well shut it down.

I didn't say remove it from pve, just pvp.

Progression in this game is pve based not pvp based.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

baronzilch wrote: »

CP offers a way to 'round out' your spec and compensate for shortcomings. Without it the class system is pretty stagnant and boring. CP may add some complexity to the dev's workload, but, for most players being well-rounded in PvP is better than being min/maxed for a niche. That adds balance, not takes it away.

CP is easy to max out: just play the game for fun and you'll get there sooner then later. I found it easy to max, because I never tried; I just played the game and didn't worry about my 'level'. And I never had the benefit of a bajillion free xp scrolls that are now given to players to help either.

CP doesn't break the game. Cheaping out on server hardware and poor internal class/skill testing breaks the game. CP or not, those issues will persist, because it's a fundamental flaw in the developer mindset (and not just in this game) - no system, or lack of system, can compensate for that.

Cp isn't something you fine tune though, you just dump X into the same stars on all your characters basically, it just gives better sustain, dmg, heals etc.. with 0 drawback.

Its why ppl run around and sustain perfect with 30k armour and lots of dmg, it's why when you run into people now like 50% of the time you can't even kill eachother, 40% is a 5m fight and 10% is you flatten them because they have no idea what they're doing.

NuarBlack

Yes - Give reason please.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

If you remove CP you have to replace with either new level -based progression, or new gear-based progression, or a replacement alternative advancement system. If the game becomes static, with progression revolving around what meta is getting nerfed this patch, you might as well shut it down.

I didn't say remove it from pve, just pvp.

Progression in this game is pve based not pvp based.

Not gonna gain much traction among this community. Sure they will *** that warden was pay to win or poisons were, then will turn around say they are entitled to wins in pvp because they grinded through the play wall and should be rewarded with power for their time investment. They really don't want an even playing field or balanced competition. It's why 1vXing is such a thing here cause they feel entitled to farm potatoes.

Good pvp is normalized as far as possible without ruining build and play style variety. Gear quality shouldn't matter and all rewards should be cosmetic if you truly want balanced and good pvp. Or at least the best gear for pvp should be earned through pvp. ZoS is doing this now with trial sets being only optimal for pve but pve Arenas still contain some of the best pvp gear.

Inb4 I have max cp and can gold out gear.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

I understand a lot of people really crutch on cp in pvp so they can run unkillable builds in large groups, some ppl really need the advantage max cp gives them because despite having 1k hours in pvp they have only zerged and are potatoes.

Resources management, building enough so you aren't melted while scaling some dmg is so much harder in non cp.

In cp you can run any potato build and basically be unkillable 1v1.

Bhelen

No - Give reason please.

Thinking people are "too tanky" in CP is a l2p issue. Learn to kill people in both campaigns. The tank and damage CP trees are pretty much a 1 to 1 ratio it's likely people are not building their CP correctly if you find you cant kill anyone. That being said the cost reduction and sustain is definitely better and just more convenient that's why many people prefer it.

AMeanOne

I wouldn't mind if they took cp away, I would just really prefer to keep the 20% max stats if they do.

Vlad9425

No - Give reason please.

Taking away people's CP is taking away their progress. What they should really do is have a separate CP system for PVP and PVE.