Make all pvp non cp?

Durham

No - Give reason please.

No no no massive amounts of people will quit..

NuarBlack

Yes - Give reason please.

Bhelen wrote: »

Thinking people are "too tanky" in CP is a l2p issue. Learn to kill people in both campaigns. The tank and damage CP trees are pretty much a 1 to 1 ratio it's likely people are not building their CP correctly if you find you cant kill anyone. That being said the cost reduction and sustain is definitely better and just more convenient that's why many people prefer it.

This isn't true. Can't remember who but someone ran the tests and did the math and proved the red stars are more potent than the blue. Also the green cost reduction stars for breakfree, dodge rolln and block cost are more potent as well since they behave the same as the old cost reduction stars did before the sustain nerf with the last CP rebalance.

LeHarrt91

No - Give reason please.

I am ok with both, but i feel that the CP bonuses shouldnt be as impactful and we should have to spread them out more. Like maybe they should remove the % increases and add more passives that gain X effect when you have X CP allocated.

Defilted

No - Give reason please.

I prefer cp pvp.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Yes - Give reason please.

VaranisArano wrote: »

No thanks.

I've tried No CP PVP and didnt really care for it. I prefer CP PVP.

Can we maybe accept that other people have other preferences and not try to remove game modes they like in the name of "balance"?

The op dont claim that nobody anjoy CP pvp. But zos try to balance pve, no cp pvp and cp pvp using the same rules. Its just impossible to do and a lot of nerf come from 1 side and *** of the 2 other sides.

TheBonesXXX

No - Give reason please.

Make cyro an ow pvp zone and get rid of campaigns

Alienoutlaw

No - Give reason please.

there is an option if you want non CP PvP use that!

Alienoutlaw

No - Give reason please.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I understand a lot of people really crutch on cp in pvp so they can run unkillable builds in large groups, some ppl really need the advantage max cp gives them because despite having 1k hours in pvp they have only zerged and are potatoes.

Resources management, building enough so you aren't melted while scaling some dmg is so much harder in non cp.

In cp you can run any potato build and basically be unkillable 1v1.

what about the low level CP ppl that melt through zergs and destroy ball groups or 1vX? they dont have max CP but manage just fine

TheBonesXXX

No - Give reason please.

Turelus wrote: »

I am in the "make the whole game no CP" crowd. The game was better before it (IMO).

The game should have been Morrowind-Oblivion-,Skyrim online.

ThePedge

Yes - Give reason please.

With the addition of Roleplay Lock, yes. CP PvP is a joke and I don't want to play it, but I have to in order to play half my toons.

Get rid of Roleplay Lock and no, because each to their own. Let the CP masochists be.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I understand a lot of people really crutch on cp in pvp so they can run unkillable builds in large groups, some ppl really need the advantage max cp gives them because despite having 1k hours in pvp they have only zerged and are potatoes.

Resources management, building enough so you aren't melted while scaling some dmg is so much harder in non cp.

In cp you can run any potato build and basically be unkillable 1v1.

what about the low level CP ppl that melt through zergs and destroy ball groups or 1vX? they dont have max CP but manage just fine

You can give rare examples all you want.

Doesn't change the fact that if you have max cp over someone who is missing several hundreds you straight up just have a big advantage. More dmg, more sustain, healing etc...

What would you say to any console new players? There is 1 active campaign on my server, the 30 day cp one. Everything else is dead. Sorry you need to go farm cp for 6 months then come back?

One of the reasons its dead is because of cp, when the pop is so low (mainly because console performance is so bad the games unplayable) it's not going to increase when theres a big looming cp grind for them to even start becoming competitive.

UndeniablyAVG

No - Give reason please.

The option to play no CP is already there and people don't use it. If the majority of people wanted this change, the 30 day no CP campaign would be busy.

My main gripe with no CP is the siege and guard damage, siege does so much damage it seems no one wants to have a proper fight.

Also, the 7 day on PS4 EU is pretty decent sometimes, It's a bit hit and miss but I usually stay in there to escape the lag in the 30 day.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

UndeniablyAVG wrote: »

The option to play no CP is already there and people don't use it. If the majority of people wanted this change, the 30 day no CP campaign would be busy.

My main gripe with no CP is the siege and guard damage, siege does so much damage it seems no one wants to have a proper fight.

Also, the 7 day on PS4 EU is pretty decent sometimes, It's a bit hit and miss but I usually stay in there to escape the lag in the 30 day.

I think one of the issues is just a lot of the long timers crutch on cp and stay in there, this means new people flock to there as its the only/ most active and the cycle just continues.

The 7 day is dead like 90% of the time, sometimes there is 1 bar there usually on peak hours or peak hours on the weekend and its a 24 man emp farm group.

UndeniablyAVG

No - Give reason please.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The 7 day is dead like 90% of the time, sometimes there is 1 bar there usually on peak hours or peak hours on the weekend and its a 24 man emp farm group.

I'm in there almost every night and usually get pretty good PVP, but you do have to enjoy fighting outnumbered against reds.

Beats not being able to bar swap in the 30 day IMO.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

UndeniablyAVG wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The 7 day is dead like 90% of the time, sometimes there is 1 bar there usually on peak hours or peak hours on the weekend and its a 24 man emp farm group.

I'm in there almost every night and usually get pretty good PVP, but you do have to enjoy fighting outnumbered against reds.

Beats not being able to bar swap in the 30 day IMO.

The reds i run into are all ball group zergs with heavy armour and 30k hp.

BNOC

Yes - Give reason please.

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

jcm2606

Either one or the other, but if we want actual balance in PVP, it needs to be unified. CP and non-CP are operating at two distinct extremes, to the extent where it's pretty much pointless talking about the general PVP meta, because it's vastly different between the two.

I personally would prefer starting from non-CP and slowly working towards CP to quickly find a more balanced approach to PVP, but starting from CP and working towards non-CP works, too.

Emma_Overload

No - Give reason please.

BNOC wrote: »

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

Nah, that's not it. They could give everyone 810 CP for free, and I wouldn't care. Allocating CP is a fun part of the game for me, because doing it cleverly makes my toons stronger, even against players with the exact same number of CP.

You mention resource management. Well, the problem with No-CP is that it makes class weaknesses regarding resource management more severe, which is bad for balance and fairness. No-CP also widens the yawning gap between Magicka and Stamina builds. Magicka builds really need the extra Max Magicka (and Health) from CP to maximize their shields (and pet damage for Sorcs), whereas Stamina builds can stack Weapon Power on No-CP just as well as on CP.

You can go on believing No-CP is "balanced" or whatever, but the truth is that it is simply better for some builds and worse for others.

LoreToo

No - Give reason please.

I played couple of weeks on sotha pc/eu last patch(it was less laggy then now). It was absolutly same lag as in vivec. So in terms of lags its absolutly same(i'm talking about primetime ofc).

It was absolutly same cancer builds with slightly different meta. Shorter fights-its bad. Cp grants you diversity in building and playstyle so you can try way more combos with sets/skills. In terms of gameplay non-cp doesnt forgive your mistakes, while on cp you usualy has 2nd chance in fights(it is + and - on both sides).

So, if there is no difference in lag, why do i need only non-cp?
Lag comes from poor zos hardware, not from cp. It just cannot handle your outfit

bigelle.x3_ESO

Yes - Give reason please.

Cp is a blight on this game. Completely ruins the experience for newer players, poorly balanced, makes balance harder because you're balancing for 3 game modes instead of the usual 2 (cp pvp, no cp pvp, pve) and honestly should be removed. However cp pvp is by far the more popular campaign and so many people crutch on having cp to fight low cp players because mUh ChArAcTER pROgRessIoN that removing it would incite a revolt. The process needs to be gradual.

I'd be content with a much lower cp cap and not splitting up the points between the 3 trees. Say for example the cap is 250 but you could put all 250 points into the red and green trees for your defense and sustain while gearing for pure offense.

BNOC

Yes - Give reason please.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

Nah, that's not it. They could give everyone 810 CP for free, and I wouldn't care. Allocating CP is a fun part of the game for me, because doing it cleverly makes my toons stronger, even against players with the exact same number of CP.

You mention resource management. Well, the problem with No-CP is that it makes class weaknesses regarding resource management more severe, which is bad for balance and fairness. No-CP also widens the yawning gap between Magicka and Stamina builds. Magicka builds really need the extra Max Magicka (and Health) from CP to maximize their shields (and pet damage for Sorcs), whereas Stamina builds can stack Weapon Power on No-CP just as well as on CP.

You can go on believing No-CP is "balanced" or whatever, but the truth is that it is simply better for some builds and worse for others.

Yeah I worded that poorly, I'm not saying there isn't balance issues in no-CP, but it's my impression that there's less to begin with and that It's surely easier and smarter to balance classes and sets at their base in No-CP.

No-CP is better for some builds but equally, so is CP. Also, whilst there's slight variations in CP allocation, we are all following the same general patterns right? Magicka? Oh so you've got Elemental Expert etc; nobody strays away from the obvious, so we're talking about minor differences of what, 20 points here and there at a stretch, sometimes you're talking 2% or whatever? With frontloading I just don't think builds are as diverse and unique as people make out (Though they are more diverse than no-CP builds would be)

I've got 34k mag with 1700 unbuffed recov and 21k HP in no-Cp on a Magplar and I'm not slacking on damage - It'd be just as easy for me to drop stats and replicate a stam glass cannon with Necro and rend (or other combos) on for 40k Magicka.

This is what I'm saying, people don't even want to think about builds or sacrifices when they're already not much different than what we already have.

It might not be balanced, but it's a hell of a lot closer and that's coming from someone who doesn't struggle in either.

SodanTok

No - Give reason please.

I voted no even tho I think it isnt bad idea. There is no doubt CP PVP is mess and lots of people literally depend on having their 810 CP points to be able to play, but noCP isnt that much better either. Years of balancing around CP created lots of imbalances in no CP environment. Some people's preferred builds get variably weaker or stronger as they enter noCP relatively to others so there are also good reasons to play CP PVP.

My point is, its better to give people choice than force one or second until ZoS (if ever) finally reworks CP (if even for better)

NuarBlack

Yes - Give reason please.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

Nah, that's not it. They could give everyone 810 CP for free, and I wouldn't care. Allocating CP is a fun part of the game for me, because doing it cleverly makes my toons stronger, even against players with the exact same number of CP.

You mention resource management. Well, the problem with No-CP is that it makes class weaknesses regarding resource management more severe, which is bad for balance and fairness. No-CP also widens the yawning gap between Magicka and Stamina builds. Magicka builds really need the extra Max Magicka (and Health) from CP to maximize their shields (and pet damage for Sorcs), whereas Stamina builds can stack Weapon Power on No-CP just as well as on CP.

You can go on believing No-CP is "balanced" or whatever, but the truth is that it is simply better for some builds and worse for others.

Well first screw pet damage in pvp. Keep that *** in pve. Pet damage on live is honestly worse than the viper and red mountain proc-ocolypse. At least you had to actively attack someone with those.

Last the way CP is designed it does nothing to round out or shorten the gap between builds at all. Front loaded stars or soft caps mean you can dump 50 cp for only a 3% difference over a cookie cutter build. All those percentage increases just widens the imbalance actually. It means classes with good sustain run full damage enchants and mundus. So sure you have the same sustain viability at first glance but the reality is that it gets worse. Just cause you are living longer doesn't mean you are doing better.

leepalmer95

Yes - Give reason please.

BNOC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

Nah, that's not it. They could give everyone 810 CP for free, and I wouldn't care. Allocating CP is a fun part of the game for me, because doing it cleverly makes my toons stronger, even against players with the exact same number of CP.

You mention resource management. Well, the problem with No-CP is that it makes class weaknesses regarding resource management more severe, which is bad for balance and fairness. No-CP also widens the yawning gap between Magicka and Stamina builds. Magicka builds really need the extra Max Magicka (and Health) from CP to maximize their shields (and pet damage for Sorcs), whereas Stamina builds can stack Weapon Power on No-CP just as well as on CP.

You can go on believing No-CP is "balanced" or whatever, but the truth is that it is simply better for some builds and worse for others.

Yeah I worded that poorly, I'm not saying there isn't balance issues in no-CP, but it's my impression that there's less to begin with and that It's surely easier and smarter to balance classes and sets at their base in No-CP.

No-CP is better for some builds but equally, so is CP. Also, whilst there's slight variations in CP allocation, we are all following the same general patterns right? Magicka? Oh so you've got Elemental Expert etc; nobody strays away from the obvious, so we're talking about minor differences of what, 20 points here and there at a stretch, sometimes you're talking 2% or whatever? With frontloading I just don't think builds are as diverse and unique as people make out (Though they are more diverse than no-CP builds would be)

I've got 34k mag with 1700 unbuffed recov and 21k HP in no-Cp on a Magplar and I'm not slacking on damage - It'd be just as easy for me to drop stats and replicate a stam glass cannon with Necro and rend (or other combos) on for 40k Magicka.

This is what I'm saying, people don't even want to think about builds or sacrifices when they're already not much different than what we already have.

It might not be balanced, but it's a hell of a lot closer and that's coming from someone who doesn't struggle in either.

Emma, the only thimg you care about is buffing your carry sorc pet build, anyone who been on this forums knows you a just pure bias in regards to everything and like everyone else I should just ignore you.

1. You don't 'fine tune your cp', you dump it into the generic ones and get a bit of everything until the scaling differes, the difference of 1-2% between builds is nothing. There is no unique secret cp setups.

Why are you always trying to get magicka buffed, like all the time. Stamina has its own issues in non cp, you know how expensive rolling is for stamina there? + they lose undaunted which is a mega sustain loss.

Everyone has to be careful about sustain in non cp and thats how it should be. Stamina cant just stack weapon power? They have to sort hp out, get a decent max stamina if they don't want to be out in 10s. Have you ever played stamina?

Can you just not comment on my threads, i'm sick of seeing your annoying bias comments everywhere exaggerating and whining about everything to get magicka but mainly magicka sorc buffed. You act like other people don't play the class and it's so obvious when you straight up lie about things.

Emma_Overload

No - Give reason please.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

No-Cp PVP is much better.

I think it's one of those where bad players don't want balance - With CP enabled, there's always going to be someone who is lower than them giving them an 'on paper' advantage - They like that.

I think most players hate the thought of actually having to fight everyone fairly or think about their builds, including the tough decisions and sacrifices along the way. Also, I think a bit part of the fear is resource management.

Nah, that's not it. They could give everyone 810 CP for free, and I wouldn't care. Allocating CP is a fun part of the game for me, because doing it cleverly makes my toons stronger, even against players with the exact same number of CP.

You mention resource management. Well, the problem with No-CP is that it makes class weaknesses regarding resource management more severe, which is bad for balance and fairness. No-CP also widens the yawning gap between Magicka and Stamina builds. Magicka builds really need the extra Max Magicka (and Health) from CP to maximize their shields (and pet damage for Sorcs), whereas Stamina builds can stack Weapon Power on No-CP just as well as on CP.

You can go on believing No-CP is "balanced" or whatever, but the truth is that it is simply better for some builds and worse for others.

Yeah I worded that poorly, I'm not saying there isn't balance issues in no-CP, but it's my impression that there's less to begin with and that It's surely easier and smarter to balance classes and sets at their base in No-CP.

No-CP is better for some builds but equally, so is CP. Also, whilst there's slight variations in CP allocation, we are all following the same general patterns right? Magicka? Oh so you've got Elemental Expert etc; nobody strays away from the obvious, so we're talking about minor differences of what, 20 points here and there at a stretch, sometimes you're talking 2% or whatever? With frontloading I just don't think builds are as diverse and unique as people make out (Though they are more diverse than no-CP builds would be)

I've got 34k mag with 1700 unbuffed recov and 21k HP in no-Cp on a Magplar and I'm not slacking on damage - It'd be just as easy for me to drop stats and replicate a stam glass cannon with Necro and rend (or other combos) on for 40k Magicka.

This is what I'm saying, people don't even want to think about builds or sacrifices when they're already not much different than what we already have.

It might not be balanced, but it's a hell of a lot closer and that's coming from someone who doesn't struggle in either.

Emma, the only thimg you care about is buffing your carry sorc pet build, anyone who been on this forums knows you a just pure bias in regards to everything and like everyone else I should just ignore you.

1. You don't 'fine tune your cp', you dump it into the generic ones and get a bit of everything until the scaling differes, the difference of 1-2% between builds is nothing. There is no unique secret cp setups.

Why are you always trying to get magicka buffed, like all the time. Stamina has its own issues in non cp, you know how expensive rolling is for stamina there? + they lose undaunted which is a mega sustain loss.

Everyone has to be careful about sustain in non cp and thats how it should be. Stamina cant just stack weapon power? They have to sort hp out, get a decent max stamina if they don't want to be out in 10s. Have you ever played stamina?

Can you just not comment on my threads, i'm sick of seeing your annoying bias comments everywhere exaggerating and whining about everything to get magicka but mainly magicka sorc buffed. You act like other people don't play the class and it's so obvious when you straight up lie about things.

Nobody is going to be running a pet build in Update 23, including me. Pets got nerfed and DOTs got buffed, so everyone will be running DOTs now. Having said that, there is no disputing that they are even WEAKER in No-CP than in CP. No reason to kick them while they're down by forcing No-CP on everybody.

Vapirko

Yes - Give reason please.

There’s no question that no CP has better performance and that CP PvP is just bogging down the whole server. Plus there are too many campaigns. There should be a 30 day, 7 day and the IC campaign all no CP. Performance would up, pops would be up and it’s a win win. People don’t like no CP because they die faster but they’ll adapt.

grannas211

No - Give reason please.

Vapirko wrote: »

There’s no question that no CP has better performance and that CP PvP is just bogging down the whole server. Plus there are too many campaigns. There should be a 30 day, 7 day and the IC campaign all no CP. Performance would up, pops would be up and it’s a win win. People don’t like no CP because they die faster but they’ll adapt.

Better perfomance because no one is in it

They did that test a while back and came to the conclusion it had no effect.

Why is it always the No-CP people trying to force their way onto to the masses?

oxygen_thief

No - Give reason please.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Most of the problems in pvp come from Cp just breaking the game.

zos is trying to balance three game modes at once: pve, cp pvp, nocp pvp. thats our problem. its clear that they will never separate pvp and pve beсause they have some fad in their heads but its possible for them to bring pvp to a single standard at least. i think cp system should be completely reworked and every player should have max cp lvl in pvp zones.

personally i prefer no cp. i like to play in battlegrounds and nocp ic on my sorc but i dont like to be nerfed because some guys in cp pvp have few huge thick shields while my can barely save me from one hit

Rhaegar75

No - Give reason please.

terrible idea...no pint removing a game mode. Chose the modality you fancy and learn to play if you struggle.
I think that CP can offer build variety

MisterBigglesworth

Yes - Give reason please.

Also remove CP from PVE. Or at the very least convert Champion System into a horizontal progression system, not vertical, not just increases to various stats. If they did that then I'd say it would actually be fine for the whole game and all PvP modes to be CP-only (the new horizontal CP system).