Returning Magblade...

ScruffyWhiskers

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

kaithuzar

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

GhostofDatthaw

thankyourat wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is NBs who build to be tankier are doing really well, those who aren’t are getting frustrated.

It’s creating a dichotomy in the class where some people are happy with things (tankier ones) and some people are frustrated (glass canon ones) so when they see the nerfs they get even more discouraged.

It’s always hard to tell how things will pan out after a patch, but I think more damage focused NBs will be happy after the patch. Dot from ranged in cloak and finish off in melee I think will be strong.

I don’t think it’s the tankier ones that are happy I think it’s the magblades that play in large groups are happy and the 1vX magblades are frustrated. I have also been one of the biggest supporters of tanky magblade over the years but when Summerset came out tanky magblade basically died. You just don’t have the damage to kill anyone if you use defensive sets on magblade which is why most of the best magblades have switched to all damage. The only thing you can beat on a defensive magblade is new players who don’t understand the game yet. I was a brawler magblade from dark brotherhood to basically until almost Summerset and back then it was good.

Currently to be threatening on a magblade you need a bow tooltip of around 24k fully buffed if it’s any lower your are going to have trouble killing elite level players. Take for instance my build I run BTB/spinner/2 max mag pieces and all arcane jewelry I sit at 54k mag and 2k sd unbuffed and this build is considered on the low end of damage but since I play solo so I have to give up some damage for sustain. Building tanky on a magblade currently is too much of a damage and sustain loss.

I feel married to spinners in PvP and it's an abusive relationship. I really don't want to like the set, it's so bland, but ffs it's the best option for damage. Nothing even seems to come close and you can 1 bar it. I run a little different setup that you though, I do 2 protective with SD, 1 infused with recovery, and apprentice mundus. Im not at my computer but I think I'm around 1.6 Regen, 38k mag, 28k hp, 17k Stam and 2.2 spell damage. Defense is like 17-18k all unbuffed

I use spinner on all my builds too. It’s the best magicka based damage set in the game. There is also no reason for me to use Necro because my damage shield is at the cap with my current build. So it wouldn’t make since to stack magicka any further because at this point either adding more penn or more sd would give me more damage than actually stacking more magicka. I like to play with at least 47k magicka because that will give you a 9k damage shield. My build is at 54k mag 24k health 18k stam 2k sd 2k mag recovery and base light armor resist. These are my unbuffed stats.

I'm still a lizard which I feel just hurts me at this point. But I used my race changes, and I refuse to give zos more money. Wish I was a Breton or high elf but what ever.

I like lizard magblade though. I myself play dark elf. It’s not as good as high elf but I just like dark elf more. I think lizard has some strengths, the race has natural sustain and survivability built into the race which allows you to build more for damage. I think it’s still very viable for solo play. I actually like it better than Breton because of the off stat sustain and healing passive. What other sets are you combining with spinner.

kaithuzar wrote: »

I’m not disagreeing that the “value” spinner brings to the table is top notch, I’m saying that it’s possible to get that value Elsweyr (see what I did there ;p )
Lover mundus, sharpened weapon, cp, Mark target, light armor passives; they’re all viable sources of penetration!

The difficult thing that people seem to be turned off by is the spending 300k gold to gold out jewelry. Or, if you have gold jewelry, then wanting to try infused spell damage.
Every little bit helps, that’s why it’s called “min-maxing”.

Willpower is a viable set to gold out jewelry on; I’m doing this for PVE.
Julianos wouldn’t be bad to gold out jewelry, rattle cage isn’t bad either; pick something & try it.

The only problem with that is when you try to make up for the lose of spinner. You have to give up your nirn staff for sharpened which means you lose over 200 sd and then you have to give up 2k mag for switching the mage Mundus to the lover. So in the end you miss out on a lot of extra damage trying to make up for the loss of spinner.

Most the time with spinners it's btb body and vma resto with pirate. Pretty meta build but it's the ole reliable.

I have like 4 build I am playing ATM and can't decide what I like most.... Then I have a gank stlye... Anyway it's all kinda pointless anyway I don't think I'm going to play anymore. Lag is just too much for me.

Iskiab

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

kaithuzar

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

brandonv516

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

I'm not sure either of those proc sets come close to the lethality that Caluurions is on a Magblade.

kaithuzar

brandonv516 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

I'm not sure either of those proc sets come close to the lethality that Caluurions is on a Magblade.

Yea, I thought the cooldowns were different but I guess they’re the same & cal does do ~4K extra dmg + random status effect

I guess the other sets are only decent as a 4 piece sp pen addition; but not sure if I would invest there

Vermintide

I've been trying back and forth between Spinners and War Maiden over the last few days. As far as non-CP is concerned I think the extra penetration is wasted (assuming you already run light & sharpened- It's great on heavy, but I need a few more gear pieces to make a really worthwhile heavy build). Much like with crit chance, you're looking at diminishing returns the higher you push one stat; whereas pure spell damage stays at a reasonably linear increase. Or at least that's what it feels like.

I think the best way to run a magblade right now is definitely with a sustain set and a damage set. We don't have the built-in damage to make defensive sets really worthwhile- They don't seem to offer enough protection to make up for the lack of pressure and burst. Meanwhile full damage isn't flexible enough to get itself out of a bad situation. We have to really make the most of those shadow defenses and be very strategic with the Merciless proc. You gotta hold onto that thing like you're balls deep in a Khajit and trying your best not to nut...

One thing is for sure- Coming back this patch has forced me to really up my game in terms of playing an unforgiving, squishy glass cannon. I think ZOS just wants us to git gud

ScruffyWhiskers

Oh, I'm keeping Cal. I just was thinking of putting together a mega proc set build with Cal, Icy and Skoria. With soul harvest getting ganked this patch I thought this might be fun. Running Frostvault for a fire stiff though is going to suck. I could just bomb here and there but lets face it, if you want to be a good bomber you have to be patient and not just set yourself off every time you see a group of three or more people.

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

Iskiab

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

Flame blossom is a slow moving projectile that’s easy to dodge if it procs at range. I’ve never seen Icy Conj in action, but the description sounds like it will target a player so can’t be dodged.

I have the set in my bank, it’s just not usable yet because I haven’t transmuted it. It might be decent for a ranged playstyle magblade post patch, like a free dot for a ranged cloakblade.

kaithuzar

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

Flame blossom is a slow moving projectile that’s easy to dodge if it procs at range. I’ve never seen Icy Conj in action, but the description sounds like it will target a player so can’t be dodged.

I have the set in my bank, it’s just not usable yet because I haven’t transmuted it. It might be decent for a ranged playstyle magblade post patch, like a free dot for a ranged cloakblade.

The point with flame blossom & the like was to lotus fan in & try to hit at point blank range

kaithuzar

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

I get it now, you use damage shields, I don’t.
That’s why a loss of 1-2k magic kills your defenses. Play how you want man, but I stopped being a 2nd tier sorc a while ago.

Iskiab

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

Flame blossom is a slow moving projectile that’s easy to dodge if it procs at range. I’ve never seen Icy Conj in action, but the description sounds like it will target a player so can’t be dodged.

I have the set in my bank, it’s just not usable yet because I haven’t transmuted it. It might be decent for a ranged playstyle magblade post patch, like a free dot for a ranged cloakblade.

The point with flame blossom & the like was to lotus fan in & try to hit at point blank range

Yea, I’m going to try that playstyle: Lotus in - kill - shade out.

I’m crazy worried about burst in this upcoming patch, especially stampede. The weapon that buffs stampede’s aoe along with onslaught will be a hard NB counter. As a healer I’m thinking I might have to drop everything melee based and stick to disguise.

Nevasca

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

Flame blossom is a slow moving projectile that’s easy to dodge if it procs at range. I’ve never seen Icy Conj in action, but the description sounds like it will target a player so can’t be dodged.

I have the set in my bank, it’s just not usable yet because I haven’t transmuted it. It might be decent for a ranged playstyle magblade post patch, like a free dot for a ranged cloakblade.

The point with flame blossom & the like was to lotus fan in & try to hit at point blank range

You can't really control the proc (10% chance on any damage). Even if you Lotus as the proc starts (since it has 1s delay), on my testing the proc went off before I gapclosed. I think it's due to being really clunky since you can't animation cancel it, but I play with 250ms+ so maybe someone with low ping could time it perfectly?

kaithuzar

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Icy Conjuror gives you 1400 spell pen and is pretty close to Spinner. Anybody give it a try with Lotus Fan to get the sure thing proc?

I thought about it but never tried it. Spinners is actually a little under budget for penetration, it’s less then 2.5 times a 2-4 piece pen bonus so I wanted to try some other sets.

Everyone says the Icy Conj set is weak but I’m not sure, maybe they tried it with low pen. It will also proc from debilitate’s minor magic steal.

Pen is probably the best dps stat there is so the set bonus’ look good, I’m just not sure if the 5 piece is good.

Im not really one for proc sets or long cooldowns, but I would imagine flame blossom is the same if not better; you could always go just for the 4 piece.

https://eso-sets.com/set/flame-blossom

Flame blossom is a slow moving projectile that’s easy to dodge if it procs at range. I’ve never seen Icy Conj in action, but the description sounds like it will target a player so can’t be dodged.

I have the set in my bank, it’s just not usable yet because I haven’t transmuted it. It might be decent for a ranged playstyle magblade post patch, like a free dot for a ranged cloakblade.

The point with flame blossom & the like was to lotus fan in & try to hit at point blank range

You can't really control the proc (10% chance on any damage). Even if you Lotus as the proc starts (since it has 1s delay), on my testing the proc went off before I gapclosed. I think it's due to being really clunky since you can't animation cancel it, but I play with 250ms+ so maybe someone with low ping could time it perfectly?

Yea I hadn’t tested it but I figured it was clunky b/c ZOS

I wonder if your archer shade can proc it?
Maybe it could proc off grothdar if you’re breaking up close?

ScruffyWhiskers

kaithuzar wrote: »

The point with flame blossom & the like was to lotus fan in & try to hit at point blank range

This is why Icy might be worth using. You get a sure thing proc with Lotus Fan, and if you get them down into execute range you've got a dot on them that will keep up the pressure. If you start out with cripple then you have two 20k + dots on them and combined with a well placed fear you put more pressure. Might have to take inner light off to fit in impale on the front bar. I run it now on the back bar but i've missed out on countless kills because weapon swap is so unreliable.

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

I get it now, you use damage shields, I don’t.
That’s why a loss of 1-2k magic kills your defenses. Play how you want man, but I stopped being a 2nd tier sorc a while ago.

I would love to play magblade like I use to before the dark brotherhood patch and just use cloak and healing ward and conceal. The problem is the game doesn’t really allow you to play that way and be competitive. ZoS is forcing magblades to use damage shields. I still use cloak, shade, Phantasmal escape, and fear from the Nightblade toolkit for defense. The resto heals are flat out horrible on live though so without a damage shield if you take a huge burst and survive your only option would be to run away for long periods of time to try to regain your health. Nightblades self healing is also horrible now so a damage shield is the only way to apply pressure without being counter bursted.

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

Jeezye

thankyourat wrote: »

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

you forgot "or dont play at all". Been unsubribed for 2 months now and just casually log in for friends/guild, but magblade really aint no fun atm.

Other chars are still fine, but you know, there's only one real love per life time

kaithuzar

Jeezye wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

you forgot "or dont play at all". Been unsubribed for 2 months now and just casually log in for friends/guild, but magblade really aint no fun atm.

Other chars are still fine, but you know, there's only one real love per life time

Lol I don’t believe that at all, I fall in love every 15 mins

kaithuzar

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

I get it now, you use damage shields, I don’t.
That’s why a loss of 1-2k magic kills your defenses. Play how you want man, but I stopped being a 2nd tier sorc a while ago.

I would love to play magblade like I use to before the dark brotherhood patch and just use cloak and healing ward and conceal. The problem is the game doesn’t really allow you to play that way and be competitive. ZoS is forcing magblades to use damage shields. I still use cloak, shade, Phantasmal escape, and fear from the Nightblade toolkit for defense. The resto heals are flat out horrible on live though so without a damage shield if you take a huge burst and survive your only option would be to run away for long periods of time to try to regain your health. Nightblades self healing is also horrible now so a damage shield is the only way to apply pressure without being counter bursted.

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

Phantasmal escape cost SOooooOo much compared to RaT!
If you wanna use healing ward with Brp resto next patch fine, but right now it’s d00kie; get on that blessing of restoration & have a half way decent reliable heal!

There are 2-3 reliable defensive sets up for grabs if you don’t wanna use shields (& since I don’t I use any 1 of these):
Buffer of the swift
Fortified brass
Pariah

And if you really don’t want to use 1 of those sets, then do 1 chudan & 1 pirate skeleton or lord warden.

Blessing of restoration gives you a bigger heal than combat prayer you shouldn’t need to buff your damage because you can do that elsewhere. This skill works well with nightblade because it gives you minor ward and minor resolve and your nightblade passives already give you major ward and major resolve.

And if you don’t like any of these options you can still run willows path with Alessian, swallow soul, refreshing path, etc.. & have around 2k health regen & then stack lingering health pots on that; granted it’s at a substantial sacrifice to your damage but you’ll still have over 2K unbuffed spell damage.

Can we play like we used to? NO
Are we weaker than other classes? Somewhat

I think the big deal here as a lot of people have been scorned for so long and they’re just not willing to adapt because it’s easier to jump on a stamina warden or stamina DK and wreck face without trying.

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

I get it now, you use damage shields, I don’t.
That’s why a loss of 1-2k magic kills your defenses. Play how you want man, but I stopped being a 2nd tier sorc a while ago.

I would love to play magblade like I use to before the dark brotherhood patch and just use cloak and healing ward and conceal. The problem is the game doesn’t really allow you to play that way and be competitive. ZoS is forcing magblades to use damage shields. I still use cloak, shade, Phantasmal escape, and fear from the Nightblade toolkit for defense. The resto heals are flat out horrible on live though so without a damage shield if you take a huge burst and survive your only option would be to run away for long periods of time to try to regain your health. Nightblades self healing is also horrible now so a damage shield is the only way to apply pressure without being counter bursted.

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

Phantasmal escape cost SOooooOo much compared to RaT!
If you wanna use healing ward with Brp resto next patch fine, but right now it’s d00kie; get on that blessing of restoration & have a half way decent reliable heal!

There are 2-3 reliable defensive sets up for grabs if you don’t wanna use shields (& since I don’t I use any 1 of these):
Buffer of the swift
Fortified brass
Pariah

And if you really don’t want to use 1 of those sets, then do 1 chudan & 1 pirate skeleton or lord warden.

Blessing of restoration gives you a bigger heal than combat prayer you shouldn’t need to buff your damage because you can do that elsewhere. This skill works well with nightblade because it gives you minor ward and minor resolve and your nightblade passives already give you major ward and major resolve.

And if you don’t like any of these options you can still run willows path with Alessian, swallow soul, refreshing path, etc.. & have around 2k health regen & then stack lingering health pots on that; granted it’s at a substantial sacrifice to your damage but you’ll still have over 2K unbuffed spell damage.

Can we play like we used to? NO
Are we weaker than other classes? Somewhat

I think the big deal here as a lot of people have been scorned for so long and they’re just not willing to adapt because it’s easier to jump on a stamina warden or stamina DK and wreck face without trying.

What phantismal does is the aoe mitigation which is nice and pairs well with path and dark cloak. If you're using shadow cloak then rat all the way but I do like phantismal when I'm using dark cloak

kaithuzar

@GhostofDatthaw
Yea I know about aoe mitigation but if thankyourat is using “shields”, I’m making an assumption that’s a “ranged playstyle” & not a melee playstyle.

I wouldn’t want to be trying to use Phantasmal & spam shields in melee range

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

@GhostofDatthaw
Yea I know about aoe mitigation but if thankyourat is using “shields”, I’m making an assumption that’s a “ranged playstyle” & not a melee playstyle.

I wouldn’t want to be trying to use Phantasmal & spam shields in melee range

No, not at all, spamming shields is delaying the inevitable imo. You never want to be stuck in that cycle. I use it with brp resto sometimes,and my bar will be something like healing ward, dark cloak, phantismal, mutagen, path, soul siphon.

Iskiab

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@GhostofDatthaw
Yea I know about aoe mitigation but if thankyourat is using “shields”, I’m making an assumption that’s a “ranged playstyle” & not a melee playstyle.

I wouldn’t want to be trying to use Phantasmal & spam shields in melee range

No, not at all, spamming shields is delaying the inevitable imo. You never want to be stuck in that cycle. I use it with brp resto sometimes,and my bar will be something like healing ward, dark cloak, phantismal, mutagen, path, soul siphon.

I’ve been playing with healing ward on live instead of harness magicka. I have to say I’m starting to dislike it.

In BGs guaranteed there’s a glass canon noob who thinks healing abilities are for ‘healers’ soaking up all the healing. If you’re solo it’s probably good, but around other players the squishy guy’s bringing everyone down with him.

I agree about shields too. It’s best to mix hots and healing, especially with bleeds how they are on live.

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat

Dude, you have to compare what you’re giving up & what you’re getting; add up the stats!
Then look at which stats are more important.
I opt for high recovery + reduce cost (Breton, but I would race change for perfected false god) + pots + siphoning attacks so I can run with a low 30k mag pool.

I’m getting more than 200 spell dmg either using rattle cage or by using 1 infused spell dmg glyph

But with such a low mag pool you are still missing a lot of damage and have a very small damage shield. That’s generally what I do when building as well . The most important stat for me is finding a level of regen that I’m comfortable with. Once I do that I stack magicka until I can at least get a 9k harness. Then I build to where I can get 18k spell pen which will be covered by just adding spinner and slotting major breach. The rest I stack into spell damage to get it to around at least 2k unbuffed. When I tested using lover and sharpened over spinners it comes out to a net damage loss as well as a net defensive loss because my damage shield gets smaller.

I get it now, you use damage shields, I don’t.
That’s why a loss of 1-2k magic kills your defenses. Play how you want man, but I stopped being a 2nd tier sorc a while ago.

I would love to play magblade like I use to before the dark brotherhood patch and just use cloak and healing ward and conceal. The problem is the game doesn’t really allow you to play that way and be competitive. ZoS is forcing magblades to use damage shields. I still use cloak, shade, Phantasmal escape, and fear from the Nightblade toolkit for defense. The resto heals are flat out horrible on live though so without a damage shield if you take a huge burst and survive your only option would be to run away for long periods of time to try to regain your health. Nightblades self healing is also horrible now so a damage shield is the only way to apply pressure without being counter bursted.

I’ve made the argument that ZoS is turning us into a second tier magsorc 3 years ago and it’s only gotten worse since then. It’s to the point now though that you either use a damage shield or you don’t be competitive.

Phantasmal escape cost SOooooOo much compared to RaT!
If you wanna use healing ward with Brp resto next patch fine, but right now it’s d00kie; get on that blessing of restoration & have a half way decent reliable heal!

There are 2-3 reliable defensive sets up for grabs if you don’t wanna use shields (& since I don’t I use any 1 of these):
Buffer of the swift
Fortified brass
Pariah

And if you really don’t want to use 1 of those sets, then do 1 chudan & 1 pirate skeleton or lord warden.

Blessing of restoration gives you a bigger heal than combat prayer you shouldn’t need to buff your damage because you can do that elsewhere. This skill works well with nightblade because it gives you minor word and minor resolve and your nightblade passives already give you major ward and major resolve.

And if you don’t like any of these options you can still run willows path with Alessian, swallow soul, refreshing path, etc.. & have around 2k health regen & then stack lingering health pots on that; granted it’s at a substantial sacrifice to your damage but you’ll still have over 2K unbuffed spell damage.

Can we play like we used to? NO
Are we weaker than other classes? Somewhat

I think the big deal here as a lot of people have been scorned for so long and they’re just not willing to adapt because it’s easier to jump on a stamina warden or stamina DK and wreck face without trying.

The thing is all of those defensive sets are weaker than building for strong shields because shields scale with magicka meaning you can stack offense and defense at the same time. I use to play with sets like armor master and swift sometimes in murkmire the problem is those sets make it to where you can’t kill anyone good. I actually have an Alessian health regen build as well. that’s a very niche set with very little damage too but it is very fun to troll with.

Blessing of restoration is also a very weak heal I was playing with that for awhile after the healing ward nerf and the heal is really weak. We are getting some strong heals next patch though finally. I’ve stop gimping my build by running subpar abilities and skills until magblade is in a better position for open world Cyrodil. I actually think most magblades have adapted though. We are basically all using shields because it’s by far the strongest way to build rather we like it or not.

As for Phantasmal escape I actually like it more than RaT because of the extra 2 seconds of immunity. You can cast race and then basically be instantly snared again. I also like the tankiness that it provides since I play solo.

kaithuzar

@thankyourat ,

I believe this depends on what you call competitive. Shields work great against a single player or for 1 on 1’s.
The minute multiple damage sources become involved i believe it’s vastly less efficient & your survivability decreases more than with flat resistances, often due to limited resources.

If you have to go into a defensive mode/stance/backbar then do you want to:
A ) just spam cloak
B ) cloak + shields

This whole argument probably won’t matter next patch as healing ward should be buffed, but it just seems it’s very easy to get stunned, cc’d, etc.. when fighting multiple opponents & end up with shields down; at least if I end up in that situation with high resistances I can mitigate some of that damage & possible recover.

If you want to sit in stealth for 60% of the time you’re in a fight or just attack from ranged, that’s fine, but if you try and walk into a brawl I’m going to mark you hit you with major vulnerability from Lotus fan, you will probably take some beetles or a dawnbreaker from my buddy, & get hit with onslaught from me. If you try to cloak/run I will lotus fan to you, my warden buddy pulls himself to me so that we keep pressure until you die.
Point is unless you stay ranged, to which playing a sorc would be better, or stay in stealth, you’re probably going to die a lot in any fight that involves more than 1 opponent.
We don’t have the sustain to just spam shields defensively and even if you do, it’s not 100% uptime, sorcs can’t even do that.

In the end it’s all a matter of playstyle, but you’re build will be better next patch.

Iskiab

kaithuzar wrote: »

@thankyourat ,

I believe this depends on what you call competitive. Shields work great against a single player or for 1 on 1’s.
The minute multiple damage sources become involved i believe it’s vastly less efficient & your survivability decreases more than with flat resistances, often due to limited resources.

If you have to go into a defensive mode/stance/backbar then do you want to:
A ) just spam cloak
B ) cloak + shields

This whole argument probably won’t matter next patch as healing ward should be buffed, but it just seems it’s very easy to get stunned, cc’d, etc.. when fighting multiple opponents & end up with shields down; at least if I end up in that situation with high resistances I can mitigate some of that damage & possible recover.

If you want to sit in stealth for 60% of the time you’re in a fight or just attack from ranged, that’s fine, but if you try and walk into a brawl I’m going to mark you hit you with major vulnerability from Lotus fan, you will probably take some beetles or a dawnbreaker from my buddy, & get hit with onslaught from me. If you try to cloak/run I will lotus fan to you, my warden buddy pulls himself to me so that we keep pressure until you die.
Point is unless you stay ranged, to which playing a sorc would be better, or stay in stealth, you’re probably going to die a lot in any fight that involves more than 1 opponent.
We don’t have the sustain to just spam shields defensively and even if you do, it’s not 100% uptime, sorcs can’t even do that.

In the end it’s all a matter of playstyle, but you’re build will be better next patch.

Agreed! Plus one thing people never talk about is shields are effected by mitigation. My 3k no-CP shield is just as strong as a 6k no-CP shield on a glass canon.

12k unmitigated damage

6k shield with base 50% mitigation to destroy it
=
3k shield with base 75% mitigation to destroy it

It’s like stacking sp with no pen. The tooltip is only part of the equation. Designing your stats to buff your shields makes sense if you use them a lot, but it doesn’t make sense to go overboard.

DrevesniiDospeh

Hello there! i return to teso and need help with build.. now i am running schakle+spinner+ skoria\bloodspawn..
can u tell me some builds for destro\restro solo play?
what sets use? thanks alot!

Iskiab

DrevesniiDospeh wrote: »

Hello there! i return to teso and need help with build.. now i am running schakle+spinner+ skoria\bloodspawn..
can u tell me some builds for destro\restro solo play?
what sets use? thanks alot!

That’s actually a nice setup. Do you have the Black Rose Prison resto staff? If you do use it on your resto bar and only have 5 piece spinners on your front bar.

I prefer dark cloak and holding my merciless stacks to burst someone down, so run around with 15% mitigation until I want to drop someone.

Helm - medium bloodspawn
Chest - heavy shackle
Rest light, all impen, all tri-stat glyphs