Returning Magblade...

Vermintide

Hey all.

Been away from the game for a few months. I come back to find my beloved magblade, the only class I ever actually liked and truly mastered, in ruins. Since this play style took me so long to learn and perform well with, going from a free kill noob to truly fearsome opponent; I feel like the subtle changes of this new update have really punched me in the gut. It was such an uphill struggle to get good at this, and now I feel like I've been hamstrung!

Anyway. I don't want to just QQ. Here is my build- I hope fellow magblade enthusiasts can suggest ways I can adapt to make the class fun again. I mainly play BG and non-CP Cyrodil.

-Dark Elf
-Destro/Restro
-Shaklebreaker
-Wizard's Riposte
-Zaan (5L/1M/1H)

Skill bars:

Destro- Swallow, Flame Reach, Merciless, Hysteria, Inner Light, Soul Harvest
Restro- Grasp, Degeneration, Cloak, Double Take, Healing Ward, Light's Champion

The main thing that's causing me pain is the loss of expedition on Double Take. I feel like this setup used to have options for every situation, but now it is sorely lacking. I have no way of escaping something like a stamsorc now, and slotting path or shade always felt really cumbersome to me, I just never liked it. I also feel like they nerfed healing ward quite considerably, but I can't remember how it used to be.

Help much appreciated!

ThePedge

Race Against Time is good for Expedition.

brandonv516

I will touch on a few points:

Inner Light - I know many Magblades who run this skill but I find the slot more valuable towards something else. I slot an Inferno Willpower front bar and proc my second 5 piece on my back bar. This makes up for some of the magicka I would have gained from this skill.

Flame Reach - While it probably fits your play style, it doesn't really fit the use of Zaan. Lotus Fan received a really nice buff with Elsweyr, and Zaan fits well with that skill. Also it appears as if Flame Reach is going to undergo some changes in Scalebreaker, so look into that to see if it's still worth it for you.

Double Take - If you run a more tanky Magblade (i.e. you run Dark Cloak), by all means use this skill. If you run Shadowy Disguise, I suggest Race Against Time. The snare removal, Major Expedition, and Minor Force it provides are all valuable to a stealthy play style.

Rapid Regeneration - Try to find room for this on your Resto bar next patch but don't just trade up Healing Ward for it - use both. If the healing changes go forward in Scalebreaker, these two skills will be very effective when used together.

I know my play style is likely different but just for reference, I use:

1 Willpower Inferno
5 Bright Throat Roast
5 Lich (Resto back bar)
2 Engine Guardian or Zaan

Front bar:
Swallow soul
Shadowy disguise
Lotus fan
Mass hysteria
Merciless resolve
ULT: Soul harvest

Back bar:
Race against time
Healing ward
Rapid regeneration
Shadow image
Siphoning attacks
ULT: Light's champion

Best of luck to you.

Vermintide

Some good points to consider guys, thanks.

Swapping Flame Reach out for Lotus Fan and Double Take out for Race Against Time sounds like a solid place to start- It's the mobility I was sorely missing. I had to wonder why on earth they would take away sources of mobility from a class where mobility was our main strength.

As a secondary option I've tinkered around with a heavy Shackle, Spinners and Skoria loadout. Takes me back a long time to my very beginner days to try that one out, but it seems like it may have come back around to being not just viable but actually quite strong. If only the resource management on heavy wasn't such a pain.

Iskiab

Spinners is good but I was looking at it the other day. The 5 piece bonus looks under budgeted to me, it’s only a little over 2x a 2-4 piece penetration set bonus.

I’d play around with skills but must say I much prefer light armour to heavy. Sustain’s better, but really it’s the penetration that makes the difference. You get more pen from 5x light then from the spinners set, so might as well run a defensive set and go 5x light. Just run Heavy chest shackle, medium helm monster, then rest light.

a1i3nz

wut we lost expedition -_-

a1i3nz

Haven’t played my main magblade since I started my stamcro. That sucks.

kaithuzar

@Vermintide
Shacklebreaker & wizards riposte are trash IMO, riposte was nerfed & shacklebreaker gives poor sustain compared to other sets.
You’ll want to level psijic skill line & get some jewelry crafting done.
You want gold jewelry infused trait w/spell dmg glyphs.

I would remove degeneration unless trying to use a skoria dot build which will be meta next patch.

Zaan doesn’t fit with ranged playstyle so if you’re going melee, you should use lotus fan & fear. If staying at range, use skoria or defensive monster like 1 pirate & 1 chudan or 1 lord warden (they all have the same 1 piece).

Good sustain sets:
Bright throat
Amberplasm
Willows path

Also, you can make your willpower neck gold & weapon gold & have 3 piece willpower.

Many people are running bleeds, right now your only real counters are:
Alessian set
Buffer of the swift

Next patch, bleeds are mitigated by physical resistance, so sets like the following become viable;
Pariah
Armor master
Fortified brass

GLHF

Vermintide

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Vermintide
Shacklebreaker & wizards riposte are trash IMO, riposte was nerfed & shacklebreaker gives poor sustain compared to other sets.
You’ll want to level psijic skill line & get some jewelry crafting done.
You want gold jewelry infused trait w/spell dmg glyphs.

I would remove degeneration unless trying to use a skoria dot build which will be meta next patch.

Zaan doesn’t fit with ranged playstyle so if you’re going melee, you should use lotus fan & fear. If staying at range, use skoria or defensive monster like 1 pirate & 1 chudan or 1 lord warden (they all have the same 1 piece).

Good sustain sets:
Bright throat
Amberplasm
Willows path

Also, you can make your willpower neck gold & weapon gold & have 3 piece willpower.

Many people are running bleeds, right now your only real counters are:
Alessian set
Buffer of the swift

Next patch, bleeds are mitigated by physical resistance, so sets like the following become viable;
Pariah
Armor master
Fortified brass

GLHF

Thanks for the advice. However, with those suggestions, where am I getting stamina sustain from? That's the thing I always feel like I'm missing when I try sets beside Shackle, that bit of extra freedom to break free etc, it was a game changer when I first started using it (and used to run with domihaus 1pc before we got set bonuses for 2h).

I did have a feeling Riposte had been nerfed though. That one was probably a long time coming considering how ridiculously tanks you could be with it. You think it's worth biting the bullet and just equipping an offensive set instead?

GhostofDatthaw

Vermintide wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Vermintide
Shacklebreaker & wizards riposte are trash IMO, riposte was nerfed & shacklebreaker gives poor sustain compared to other sets.
You’ll want to level psijic skill line & get some jewelry crafting done.
You want gold jewelry infused trait w/spell dmg glyphs.

I would remove degeneration unless trying to use a skoria dot build which will be meta next patch.

Zaan doesn’t fit with ranged playstyle so if you’re going melee, you should use lotus fan & fear. If staying at range, use skoria or defensive monster like 1 pirate & 1 chudan or 1 lord warden (they all have the same 1 piece).

Good sustain sets:
Bright throat
Amberplasm
Willows path

Also, you can make your willpower neck gold & weapon gold & have 3 piece willpower.

Many people are running bleeds, right now your only real counters are:
Alessian set
Buffer of the swift

Next patch, bleeds are mitigated by physical resistance, so sets like the following become viable;
Pariah
Armor master
Fortified brass

GLHF

Thanks for the advice. However, with those suggestions, where am I getting stamina sustain from? That's the thing I always feel like I'm missing when I try sets beside Shackle, that bit of extra freedom to break free etc, it was a game changer when I first started using it (and used to run with domihaus 1pc before we got set bonuses for 2h).

I did have a feeling Riposte had been nerfed though. That one was probably a long time coming considering how ridiculously tanks you could be with it. You think it's worth biting the bullet and just equipping an offensive set instead?

I understand where you're coming from, most builds that sit at like 12k Stam I really dislike. There is no way people can really fight in those setups. I just refuse to believe they can with the ccs getting thrown around and the need to sprint from time to time in fights to get los.

You need to work trifood into your build. Or run the btb/spring loaded infusion combo. Try food works but I've found you really need an infused recovery glyph with trifood to have manageable mag sustain. Possibly even runnin atro mundus.

Atm I'm running btb / spell strat / master inferno / pirate skele. Spell strat jewels 1 infused recovery other 2 protective sp.

I really like master inferno Atm for ranged magnb. Combines your cc and spammable and free's up a bar slot for more utility.

Iskiab

I have the same issue on my builds... stam. There’s some options:
- Bloodspawn monster
- Amberplasm
- Altmer or argonian race
- Shacklebreaker
- New monster set coming up in the next patch

I’m definitely going to try the new monster set when it’s released, it looks good. Shacklebreaker’s a good set too, just switch to double bloody Mara.

Another thing to consider, the health and mag amounts on witchmother’s sort of suck now. I prefer either longfin pasty (tri-stat) or Mara on all my builds.

GhostofDatthaw

Most build's I run I try to have around 17k stam. All tri glyphs and trifood will do it. I'm also still a lizard, been a lizard since day one and refuse to change. The pot sustain definitely does help. With tri pots it's almost like a get out of jail free card. All resources get maxed out pretty much.

Yeah it's not as good as other classes in the damage aspect, it's not as good at the max mag builds. It's more the well rounded race imo

kaithuzar

For stam sustain:

Tri-Stat glyphs on all or all but 1 armor pieces (I hit 12k stam & am usually good here)

Stam recovery in cp
(I get around 5%- 10%)

If you still have issues you can heavy resto.

If you have issues after that you can look at 1 piece monster either stam recovery or domihaus for max stat.

Don’t forget willows path & amberplasm are both good sustain sets; try them.
(Willows % scales higher the more recovery you have)

....

IMO you SHOULD have 56 points into “reduce cost of break free”.

kaithuzar

I wonder if you guys are sprinting too often?
I just cloak, race against time, cloak...repeat

If you’re playing bg’s or no cp, I can’t help you other than say wear a sustain set.

If you’re playing cp, find out where your biggest stam cost is by frequency of use & either do it less or put points into reducing the cost, or both.

brandonv516

kaithuzar wrote: »

I wonder if you guys are sprinting too often?
I just cloak, race against time, cloak...repeat

If you’re playing bg’s or no cp, I can’t help you other than say wear a sustain set.

If you’re playing cp, find out where your biggest stam cost is by frequency of use & either do it less or put points into reducing the cost, or both.

I sprint often but I also cancel it when I've reached about 50% stamina pool.

If my potion is off cooldown I push this limit a little bit more because I'm Argonian and I know I'm going to get it back.

However, most of my movement is what you noted above that I bolded.

Vermintide

kaithuzar wrote: »

For stam sustain:

Tri-Stat glyphs on all or all but 1 armor pieces (I hit 12k stam & am usually good here)

Stam recovery in cp
(I get around 5%- 10%)

If you still have issues you can heavy resto.

If you have issues after that you can look at 1 piece monster either stam recovery or domihaus for max stat.

Don’t forget willows path & amberplasm are both good sustain sets; try them.
(Willows % scales higher the more recovery you have)

....

IMO you SHOULD have 56 points into “reduce cost of break free”.

Ah. All very well and good, but I never play CP. I hate it :P I run 3 tri stats on large pieces, and magicka on the rest. I wll experiment with different food and see what becomes viable. In no-CP, that stamina really is vital- You get 2 stun breaks and then you're as good as dead. No second chances.

Another thing I noticed- Dark elves no longer have the flame damage passive! That was why I had everything specced around flame in the first place- Reach, zaan, infused flame glyph... No wonder the build felt so weak. We don't need to slot a destro skill to get those passives now at least, so I dropped Flame Reach straight away. I've started levelling Psijic skills too (up to level 6 in an evening's work.)

What's the best weapon enchant these days considering I don't get anything special out of a flame glyph any more?

kaithuzar

@Vermintide

If using lotus fan then use disease enchant, if not using lotus fan then shock enchant.
Back bar weapon “inc spell & weapon dmg”

Kadoin

A magblade returning? Brave. Most vanish or permacloak instead...

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

I wonder if you guys are sprinting too often?
I just cloak, race against time, cloak...repeat

If you’re playing bg’s or no cp, I can’t help you other than say wear a sustain set.

If you’re playing cp, find out where your biggest stam cost is by frequency of use & either do it less or put points into reducing the cost, or both.

I've been finding stam more important when you use dark cloak instead of shadow cloak. With shadow yeah I guess you can get away with a lower stam pool, but you will need higher mag regeneration to compensate with cloak. With dark cloak I find myself having to roll dodge, sprint, block and cc break much more often.

Iskiab

Oh yea, I only play no-CP too. People spam stuns like crazy, I’m at 16k stam I’m no-CP (all tri-glyphs and tri-stat food) and it’s still not being able to break free that usually kills me.

I’m not an argonian or high elf so it’s lack of being able to recover lost stam that’s the issue. I’m really looking forward to the new monster set, the 1k mag every 5 seconds is okay (equals 400 mag regen)... but the 500 stam every 5 seconds will be awesome.

kaithuzar

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I wonder if you guys are sprinting too often?
I just cloak, race against time, cloak...repeat

If you’re playing bg’s or no cp, I can’t help you other than say wear a sustain set.

If you’re playing cp, find out where your biggest stam cost is by frequency of use & either do it less or put points into reducing the cost, or both.

I've been finding stam more important when you use dark cloak instead of shadow cloak. With shadow yeah I guess you can get away with a lower stam pool, but you will need higher mag regeneration to compensate with cloak. With dark cloak I find myself having to roll dodge, sprint, block and cc break much more often.

I agree & that’s why I run ~2k (1900-2.4k) as a Breton which also has reduced cost, otherwise I’d be using an infused reduced cost glyph on gold jewelry.

If:
Dodge
Sprint
Block
Are you primary methods of defense, I would argue it’s best to go stamina.
On the contrary if you have over 2k health regen & use hots, then I could understand the occasional(more often) block or dodge roll.

kaithuzar

Iskiab wrote: »

Oh yea, I only play no-CP too. People spam stuns like crazy, I’m at 16k stam I’m no-CP (all tri-glyphs and tri-stat food) and it’s still not being able to break free that usually kills me.

I’m not an argonian or high elf so it’s lack of being able to recover lost stam that’s the issue. I’m really looking forward to the new monster set, the 1k mag every 5 seconds is okay (equals 400 mag regen)... but the 500 stam every 5 seconds will be awesome.

If you guys do a lot of bg’s & stam is an issue, I would seriously think about race changing to high elf & just using a magic cost reduction glyph.

fred4

I play in CP with 12.5K stam. There are three ways I have dealt with the stamina issue:

(1) If my potion is up and I want to stay in the fight, I use that. Usually Immov + Detect + Magicka potion.

(2) Cloak away at low stamina (Shadowy Disguise), then use Deep Thoughts. Very effective. I find neither Shackle nor Amber sufficient on it's own. Shadowy + Deep Thoughts beats wearing just one of those sets, but only fits a ganky / bursty playstyle, I guess.

(3) Bright Throat's + Hissmir Fisheye Rye. 1.3K stam regen in CP. The most fun, by far, since you can now mix some dodge rolls and Cloak. Feels more like a stamblade in this regard. A big drop in stat that might not suit you, but you can somewhat compensate with the Mage mundus.

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I wonder if you guys are sprinting too often?
I just cloak, race against time, cloak...repeat

If you’re playing bg’s or no cp, I can’t help you other than say wear a sustain set.

If you’re playing cp, find out where your biggest stam cost is by frequency of use & either do it less or put points into reducing the cost, or both.

I've been finding stam more important when you use dark cloak instead of shadow cloak. With shadow yeah I guess you can get away with a lower stam pool, but you will need higher mag regeneration to compensate with cloak. With dark cloak I find myself having to roll dodge, sprint, block and cc break much more often.

I agree & that’s why I run ~2k (1900-2.4k) as a Breton which also has reduced cost, otherwise I’d be using an infused reduced cost glyph on gold jewelry.

If:
Dodge
Sprint
Block
Are you primary methods of defense, I would argue it’s best to go stamina.
On the contrary if you have over 2k health regen & use hots, then I could understand the occasional(more often) block or dodge roll.

You mean best to go stam as in higher stam pool or you saying might as well play stam all together.

Because with dark cloak and having hots do the work, you have to block, roll, and sprint. That style doesn't have the luxury of shadow cloak to conceal you and get that hp back up. I'm not 100% sold on the style myself, but with dark cloak, I have found stamina becomes much more important. I do fine with my stam management, it's just I have found I need much more than a shadow cloak build.

Different builds require different focus to be viable.

kaithuzar

@GhostofDatthaw
I was meaning just swap your toon over to a stam character

Vermintide

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Vermintide

If using lotus fan then use disease enchant, if not using lotus fan then shock enchant.
Back bar weapon “inc spell & weapon dmg”

Cool, any particular reason disease works? I'm assuming both infused is still the way to go? Will there maybe be a place for sharpened in the new mitigation meta?

I'm also finding it difficult to drop degeneration as a source of major sorcery. I'm not a fan of burning through potions to get it, and the class still works the sane way- Hit like a wet noodle until the stars align and you have that tiny window of burst.

Ugh. I hope this is worth the patience.

fred4

Shock enchant can proc Minor Vulnerability, however Lotus Fan offers that as a guaranteed proc now. Kaithuzar is no doubt recommending a disease enchant for the possibility of a Major Defile proc, although Soul Harvest still offers that as well, just not Incap.

Whether to go Infused? On a staff? Sure. It's an option, especially if you want to gank people with a heavy attack or Elemental Weapon combo, from Cloak. Nirn or Sharpened can also be good. I run 2 proc sets and use Sharpened to buff those.

I wouldn't wear Riposte anymore. You have to double bar it these days and it goes to waste, if you find yourself in a duel while using the shade. Buffer of the Swift is quite good as a defensive set and will still work when people hit you with Onslaught, next patch. My chosen alternative is to accept that I am squishy and go with the double-regen drink Bright-Throat combo I mentioned above. Dodge roll sustain helps more in outnumbered or chaotic situations than the little tankiness you get from the other sets.

Keep in mind that Merciless now grants you mitigation. Due to a math f up on the part of ZOS, this is FAR more powerful than the stacked 15% would indicate, surpassing Riposte and approaching Pirate Skeleton. This is because the mitigation from Merciless is additive with your resistances and other forms of mitigation, not multiplicative. It therefore does not suffer from diminishing returns when you stack multiple forms of mitigation. It will, however, be nerfed to 10%, next patch.

fred4

As to Degenration, it looks to turn into a huge DOT, next patch, so keep it.

DUTCH_REAPER

Love hearing all the magblades “styles” on this thread. I like the melee on front bar then switching to staff as I open the gap.

Bright throat
Caalurions
One shoulder warden
One helm chudan

Dualwield bar
Concealed wep, cloak, race against time, lotus fan, refreshing path. ULT SoulHarv

Destr staff
Swallow soul, mass hysteria, cripple, soul syphon, shade or merciless resolve. ULT ice comet

GhostofDatthaw

kaithuzar wrote: »

@GhostofDatthaw
I was meaning just swap your toon over to a stam character

I mean it's just different styles. When 2h was the build to go I ran alot of well fit and had alot into roll Dodge so I could cloak away like a stamblade but better because concealed.

Toons like Templars and dks blocking is pretty standard for mag also in more melee builds. Which is what a lotus incap combo essentially makes magnb. So when I go in for a combo I can't cloak out to safety I have to roll, Sprint, and block. Even with shade, a few minutes into fights it starts getting harder to make you distance from it so I need to roll and Sprint.

It's not "just go Stam" it's different styles

Vermintide

Surprising discovery. Going way off meta here, but Combining Riposte with a heavy Shackle set (basically swapping my old build to 5H 1M 1L) gives some very trolly results. I've just played a few Battlegrounds and the little rollerblades seemed very confused at how I could stealth but also pretty much face tank them. And then let Zaan melt them.

Probably won't hold up against anything tankier than other nightblades/sorcs, but I think I'm going to keep experimenting with the heavy armour options. It's weird how it felt totally unusable before, I'm not sure what exactly they changed but it kinda doesn't suck now.