Cast time for Ultimates

LegacyDM

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

Gilvoth

thats is Absolutely the very Best evidence i have ever seen in the past 6 years.
your Awesome LegacyDM.
wish we had this years ago, but this works.
most of them will ignore this and pass it off because they will never be able to admit its an exploit, and instead do all they can constantly to think its "skill"
when there is no skill at all involved in these exploits.

LegacyDM

I've tested the .4 second changes in PTS. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. In fact, I see very little noticeable difference with my soul harvest. People running around like chickens with their heads cut off crying the sky is falling and claiming their game play is significantly slowed down. No its not. Its a joke. its just the elitist pvpers throwing a tantrum cause they can't daisy chain their instant kills anymore using bar swapping ultimates.

Thogard

Gilvoth wrote: »

thats is Absolutely the very Best evidence i have ever seen in the past 6 years.
your Awesome LegacyDM.
wish we had this years ago, but this works.
most of them will ignore this and pass it off because they will never be able to admit its an exploit, and instead do all they can constantly to think its "skill"
when there is no skill at all involved in these exploits.

That’s how those skills work. There’s a delay. You need to spend about 10 minutes to make a warden and get sub assault to understand that.

LegacyDM

Thogard wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

thats is Absolutely the very Best evidence i have ever seen in the past 6 years.
your Awesome LegacyDM.
wish we had this years ago, but this works.
most of them will ignore this and pass it off because they will never be able to admit its an exploit, and instead do all they can constantly to think its "skill"
when there is no skill at all involved in these exploits.

That’s how those skills work. There’s a delay. You need to spend about 10 minutes to make a warden and get sub assault to understand that.

True, in the case of the warden, but there is no delay on the receiving end of getting hit... And if your on top of your opponent (whose spamming beetles), you might as well not consider any delay at all. The burst in the second someone gets hit is unreasonable to react to. Hence, why they added .4 to the ultimates. Quite frankly, they should do it to the executes as well.

Gilvoth

they will maintain that they are skilled and everyone else is just garbage.
but we know better.
its an exploit.

Rianai

You are bringing up examples of getting "oneshot" by abilities with a casttime, yet adding casttimes to skills that don't even show up in those examples is somehow going to fix your problems?

Gilvoth

winning a pvp fight should be a progression, and actual fight should happen.

Rianai

I agree. Let's start by deleting snipe.

Gilvoth

Rianai wrote: »

I agree. Let's start by deleting snipe.

you think us archers dont get hit?
we do, often we die because we couldnt escape.

Rianai

Probably because you got caught in the middle of casting snipe.

ThePedge

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

I *** hate sub assault for this. There is no other skill where you can fire and then it deals damage later, while still being able to do other skills.

Needs to be made cast time or reworked.

Same with Mages Wrath, free execute.

NuarBlack

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

Actually no. We need smoother and fluid animation chaining so weaving is possible but animation canceling is not. That way the skill ceiling is there but combat remains intuitive with animations still providing tells.

LegacyDM

NuarBlack wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

Actually no. We need smoother and fluid animation chaining so weaving is possible but animation canceling is not. That way the skill ceiling is there but combat remains intuitive with animations still providing tells.

I could agree with this too as a better alternative. I just don't think ZoS will do that. The easy lazy way is to add cast times.

Madhatten512

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

L2P you cant by pass the global cooldown with animation canceling u really should have to take some kind of test before being allowed to post on here...

NBrookus

ThePedge wrote: »

I *** hate sub assault for this. There is no other skill where you can fire and then it deals damage later, while still being able to do other skills.

Needs to be made cast time or reworked.

Same with Mages Wrath, free execute.

Other than every status effect, bleed, poison, dot... and also:
Prox/Inevitable Det
Trapping Webs
Fire Rune
Bats
Volley
Hurricane
Blade Cloak
Bow Ult
Trap Beast
Curse
Purifying Light/PotL
Total Dark
Shocking Siphon

.... and probably a few I'm missing?

LegacyDM

Madhatten512 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

L2P you cant by pass the global cooldown with animation canceling u really should have to take some kind of test before being allowed to post on here...

Your right Mr. Soul Shriven... I'll take it one step further. All those without a star should take a test before posting on forums...

You can't bypass via animation canceling. I never said you could. You bypass through taking advantage of exploits, bugs, and poor code design. Animation canceling speeds up the process. One way to fix it is via adding a delay to animation cancelled skills that can be chained, or remove it all together. I applaud ZOS in adding the .4 second to ultimate. Now they just need to add it to executioners.

TheYKcid

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

I'd love to see this guy's face when he learns that cast times are what allow two attacks to land instantaneously.

Eg. Dizzying > execute

Frankly I'm probably giving him too much credit.

kaithuzar

ryh wrote: »

Problem with anicancel is that lower lag U have more U get from anicancel.

For example my friend got about 30ms ping to server. Ive got about 100.
When he put on me some combo I just mostly see bash animaton on his toon but at combat log I se light attacks skills bashes and downbraker.
When he tries the same on my ISP connection He couldnt anicancel so good and i saw some parts of skill animations before bash cancels and flash from downbraker was visible.

How in cold harbor is he getting a 30 second ping? Is your friend a developer that’s got a direct vpn to the server?
It’s in back yard & the best I’ve ever got is 50

Insco851

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

It’s called delayed burst. And you HAVE to have it to kill anything not related to potatoes.

Channel times on high burst ultis is gonna make a lot of builds frankly unkillable. There’s already plenty of them- just enough burst to be potatoe smashers tho.

Ps. Hint: The ambush wasn’t cast first.

kollege14a5

If this wird bash cooldown + ultimate cooldown really goes live then playing magicka will probably be the better option. Stamina feels super clunky with bash canceling u cant even weapon swap properly.

Khenzy

Insco851 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

It’s called delayed burst. And you HAVE to have it to kill anything not related to potatoes.

Channel times on high burst ultis is gonna make a lot of builds frankly unkillable. There’s already plenty of them- just enough burst to be potatoe smashers tho.

Ps. Hint: The ambush wasn’t cast first.

That's a problem with self healing which is increased to a ridiculous degreee on PTS (I don't know wtf are they thinking), not with cast times. Instant bursts for 90% of your HP are not and will never be healthy for the game.

kollege14a5 wrote: »

If this wird bash cooldown + ultimate cooldown really goes live then playing magicka will probably be the better option. Stamina feels super clunky with bash canceling u cant even weapon swap properly.

Stamina toons are roflstomping everyone on PTS right now. They tank you with newely buffed Vigor and proceed to two shot you with resist ingnore Onslought follwed by a resist ignore and newely buffed Executioner. It's ridiculous, one dimensional and too effective.
They also have more mobility and more mitigation with the new Shuffle btw.

jcm2606

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

In order...

1. Sub Assault has a 3s delay, which allows you to line up burst with it extremely well. It has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

2. See 1.

3. Probably travel time combined with a desync. Projectiles have a travel time, so you can queue a few up pretty easily, which may induce a desync where multiple land at once.

4. Well timed use of Ambush with Snipe. Again, Snipe has a travel time, so just like how you can line up burst with Sub Assault due to the delay, you can line up Ambush with Snipe if there's a large enough gap and if you time it well.

5. Probably lag, or some shenanigans with Dizzy Swings cast time. Dizzy Swing is prone to bugging out and causing what's called a "macro slice", where your client and the server desyncs, which allows you to queue up like 5+ Dizzy Swings, and when the server forces your client to resync, they all get sent through and the person just explodes. Thogard has had it happen to him a few times on stream, and Feng has had it happen to him once that I know of. Even if it were related to animation cancelling somehow (which I doubt it is, since you're not cancelling the animation when it happens), it's exclusive to cast time skills and is really its own thing.

6. Classic Snipe desync. There's countless videos over the forums of people who just drop dead, then 2-3 seconds later they hear the Snipe's come through, where they're either super delayed or they land all at once.

Of your 6 examples, only 1 is even possibly caused by animation cancelling, and that's a very small possibility, since Dizzy Swing is known to "macro slice". Speaking of...

https://clips.twitch.tv/ObliviousSolidShallotFreakinStinkin

https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialSparklingJellyfishBCouch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohJ91nRKFe0

LegacyDM

TheYKcid wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

I'd love to see this guy's face when he learns that cast times are what allow two attacks to land instantaneously.

Eg. Dizzying > execute

Frankly I'm probably giving him too much credit.

You can see my face in my twitch channel. Although I haven't streamed in a long time due to life stuff. Thanks for the credit!

Insco851 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

It’s called delayed burst. And you HAVE to have it to kill anything not related to potatoes.

Channel times on high burst ultis is gonna make a lot of builds frankly unkillable. There’s already plenty of them- just enough burst to be potatoe smashers tho.

Ps. Hint: The ambush wasn’t cast first.

Cool man. See my answer to thogard. Which you apparently didn't read. I'm well aware its delayed burst. I'm also addressing LeePalmer the guy who claims its impossible to hit multiple skills in the same second. Clearly you can with delayed burst.

jcm2606 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills

Really?!



Here we have HA-->Sub Assault --->DoS all in the same second



Here we have a Cutting Dive ---->Heavy Attack ----> Sub Assault all in the same second followed by a DoS one second later. Poor game play design and BS.



Here we have a lethal arrow ----> Draining Shot all in the same second.



Here's an interesting one. An Ambush ----> Lethal Arrow. In the same second. Now how did he get an ambush off with a skill that actually requires a 1s channel cast time all in the same second. Not sure.



Here we have Dizzying Swing ---->Reverse Slice --->Sub Assault all in the same second.



And my personal favorite. Two focused aims in the same second.

Of course your just going to tell me its lag, dsynch or some other BS excuse. Fact remains it's poor code and they need to fix it by adding slight cast times. Looks like they are starting with Ultimates. These photos were taken in the last several months. I've since replaced my hard drive so I cant count how many photos over the years I had with BS like this. Mostly, DB, Poison Injection, Lethal Arrow, Sub Assault, DizzySwing, Incap Strike, Reverse Slice, and Killers blade all being the worst offenders for hitting in the same seconds.

In order...

1. Sub Assault has a 3s delay, which allows you to line up burst with it extremely well. It has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

2. See 1.

3. Probably travel time combined with a desync. Projectiles have a travel time, so you can queue a few up pretty easily, which may induce a desync where multiple land at once.

4. Well timed use of Ambush with Snipe. Again, Snipe has a travel time, so just like how you can line up burst with Sub Assault due to the delay, you can line up Ambush with Snipe if there's a large enough gap and if you time it well.

5. Probably lag, or some shenanigans with Dizzy Swings cast time. Dizzy Swing is prone to bugging out and causing what's called a "macro slice", where your client and the server desyncs, which allows you to queue up like 5+ Dizzy Swings, and when the server forces your client to resync, they all get sent through and the person just explodes. Thogard has had it happen to him a few times on stream, and Feng has had it happen to him once that I know of. Even if it were related to animation cancelling somehow (which I doubt it is, since you're not cancelling the animation when it happens), it's exclusive to cast time skills and is really its own thing.

6. Classic Snipe desync. There's countless videos over the forums of people who just drop dead, then 2-3 seconds later they hear the Snipe's come through, where they're either super delayed or they land all at once.

Of your 6 examples, only 1 is even possibly caused by animation cancelling, and that's a very small possibility, since Dizzy Swing is known to "macro slice". Speaking of...

https://clips.twitch.tv/ObliviousSolidShallotFreakinStinkin

https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialSparklingJellyfishBCouch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohJ91nRKFe0

Yes I am well aware of macroslice and Fengrush's video. That's not new. And no I wasn't lagging. It was late at night and the server wasn't populated.

Rianai

There is no need for bugs or lags to land snipe/dizzy at the same time as another skill. It is because of the casttime and the gcd starting at the beginn of the cast. By asking for more casttimes, you are asking for more of that stuff.

pieratsos

LegacyDM wrote: »

Madhatten512 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

L2P you cant by pass the global cooldown with animation canceling u really should have to take some kind of test before being allowed to post on here...

Your right Mr. Soul Shriven... I'll take it one step further. All those without a star should take a test before posting on forums...

You can't bypass via animation canceling. I never said you could. You bypass through taking advantage of exploits, bugs, and poor code design. Animation canceling speeds up the process. One way to fix it is via adding a delay to animation cancelled skills that can be chained, or remove it all together. I applaud ZOS in adding the .4 second to ultimate. Now they just need to add it to executioners.

How the hell is putting half a second delay on dawnbreaker prohibits anyone to land it with sub which was casted 3 ***** seconds ago.

Insco851

Thread full of l2p

ScruffyWhiskers

The combat mechanics in this game are fluid, fast paced, well designed and simply glorious when the lag is low. It's night and day between 120ms and 210 ms for me. Adding cast times to essential combat abilities as opposed to something like a buff or resource ability is really a bad idea. Focus on improving game performance instead. You can actually dodge a Dawnbreaker or a wrench if you have 90ms ping even if it's animation canceled.

Insco851

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

The combat mechanics in this game are fluid, fast paced, well designed and simply glorious when the lag is low. It's night and day between 120ms and 210 ms for me. Adding cast times to essential combat abilities as opposed to something like a buff or resource ability is really a bad idea. Focus on improving game performance instead. You can actually dodge a Dawnbreaker or a wrench if you have 90ms ping even if it's animation canceled.

bUt I dOnT kNoW wHaT hIt mE

Madhatten512

LegacyDM wrote: »

Madhatten512 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

L2P you cant by pass the global cooldown with animation canceling u really should have to take some kind of test before being allowed to post on here...

Your right Mr. Soul Shriven... I'll take it one step further. All those without a star should take a test before posting on forums...

You can't bypass via animation canceling. I never said you could. You bypass through taking advantage of exploits, bugs, and poor code design. Animation canceling speeds up the process. One way to fix it is via adding a delay to animation cancelled skills that can be chained, or remove it all together. I applaud ZOS in adding the .4 second to ultimate. Now they just need to add it to executioners.

Ive spent my time learning to play the game not posting on the forums but because ZOS only listens to the zerglings that scream the loudest and only bad players blame being bad on exploits and bugs... I haven't heard 1 good player say this is a good change not one.... Of course it would be bad players that want to lower the skill gap...