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PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for Jewelry Crafting Master Writ Improvements

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for the improvements made to Jewelry Crafting Master Writs. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
  • Do you feel these writs are worth completing?
  • Do you anticipate doing these once the update goes live?
  • Do you have any other general feedback?
Gina Bruno
Senior Community Manager
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Staff Post
  • Naolwyn
    Naolwyn
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    Although I like the idea of blue tier master writs being introduced, I have a feeling the blue tier grains and platings are going to go up in price.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno Are the new ones in the coffers that we can get on a template character?

    I opened the "The Master Crafter's Forgotten Mail" about 8 times and got Epic and Legendary Jewelry Crafting Master Writs, but they looked identical to those that are on live.

    Epic between 29-115 vouchers
    Legendary between ~120-420 vouchers

    So... if those values have not changed, I'm still not doing them.

    I'm also not going to do regular jewelry crafting writs on PTS, just for the chance to see the new master jewelry crafting master writs... just to see if they are worth doing.
    Edited by tmbrinks on July 8, 2019 9:46PM
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    8luTdsi.jpg

    So, I lied... I decided to quickly do some JC writs... Got this.

    This is probably the maximum that a blue jewelry master writ would be worth. 9-trait to craft, rare trait (swift and infused are the highest on LIVE).

    The Gilding wax to make a swift ring costs 20 vouchers.

    So, a net of 10 vouchers... at a cost of still over 10k to complete (at PC/NA prices)... so this one is a definite "NO" (This is like doing Epic Prismatic or Legendary Provisioning... not worth it)

    Now, if Infused or some of the other "rare" traits are also 30 vouchers for this.. then those (at a cost of about 12k for the 30 vouchers), those would be plausible to do.

    Although I would expect the prices of the green/blue/purple materials to actually go up in cost since there will now be more usage of them, without any increase in drops, since there is no jewelry hireling like there is for the other crafts.

    At least we have some data to work with now. Thanks for the pic. I think the swift kind of ruins that particular one. If an infused is also in the 30 voucher range, that could be a bit more enticing. With a static cost of 20 vouchers on any swift master writs, the lower end ones were bound to be some of the worst deals. Hopefully we'll get a few more examples to work with.
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    [*] Do you feel these writs are worth completing?

    The main reason they were not worth completing was the cost of the tempers on the PLAYER-CONTROLLED market.

    IF the drop rate on tempers continues to force player to buy from the Guild Stores to complete any reasonable amount of writs,
    AND if the PLAYERS continue to increase the price of the tempers (maybe because now the Writs are more rewarding),
    THEN Jewelry writs will in the long term become not-profitable again, once prices of tempers go up.

    All the other materials are in the same market as well. Yes, jewelry doesn't have a hireling, that hurts. However, the drop rates from refining are IDENTICAL to the other crafts. They are lower for completing writs 20% vs 30% for the other crafts. Let's focus on the relative value compared to the current prices, rather than rehashing this same old argument over and over.. please.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    However, the drop rates from refining are IDENTICAL to the other crafts.

    Let me change that to "availability of full unit".

    For jewelry plating I have less than 10% of the gold tempers in the other crafts. AND in those crafts I even give away some or trade away some or use to craft multiple master writs or upgrade my gear. I have never bought any gold tempers. Period.
    To date I have done only 1 Legendary Jewelry Writ and my count is still stupidly low.

    By "drop rate" I don't mean any particular source. I mean ability to procure full units.

    Edited by Dusk_Coven on July 8, 2019 11:25PM
  • Sanctum74
    Sanctum74
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    [*] Do you feel these writs are worth completing?

    The main reason they were not worth completing was the cost of the tempers on the PLAYER-CONTROLLED market.

    IF the drop rate on tempers continues to force player to buy from the Guild Stores to complete any reasonable amount of writs,
    AND if the PLAYERS continue to increase the price of the tempers (maybe because now the Writs are more rewarding),
    THEN Jewelry writs will in the long term become not-profitable again, once prices of tempers go up.

    All the other materials are in the same market as well. Yes, jewelry doesn't have a hireling, that hurts. However, the drop rates from refining are IDENTICAL to the other crafts. They are lower for completing writs 20% vs 30% for the other crafts. Let's focus on the relative value compared to the current prices, rather than rehashing this same old argument over and over.. please.

    Identical to other crafts? There's an extra refining process with jewelry so the plating is 10x as rare. When you also consider the cost/drops of trait stones they will never be cost effective to do unless they get rid of the extra refining process or increase the drop rate.
  • tmbrinks
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    However, the drop rates from refining are IDENTICAL to the other crafts.

    Let me change that to "availability of full unit".

    For jewelry plating I have less than 10% of the gold tempers in the other crafts. AND in those crafts I even give away some or trade away some or use to craft multiple master writs or upgrade my gear. I have never bought any gold tempers. Period.
    To date I have done only 1 Legendary Jewelry Writ and my count is still stupidly low.

    By "drop rate" I don't mean any particular source. I mean ability to procure full units.

    I certainly understand. ZOS is on record as saying they wanted Jewelry crafting to be "special". Whatever that means to them. That said...

    1) Competition from the Golden Vendor.... ZOS isn't going to want drop rates to be so high that it makes the golden worthless (more so than it already is). They need it as an AP sink, and less, a gold sink

    2) There is less "need" for jewelry improvement materials. A full build only uses 3 pieces of jewelry, whereas you have 9-11 pieces of the others for a full build (depending on spec). 12 chromium platings vs. 72-88 for the other crafts. Even taking into account the 10:1 ratio, in a full heavy spec (like a tank) it's 120:72 ratio for Chromium GRAINS to Tempering Alloy... that's hardly outlandish to me.

    3) I have only done 2 jewelry crafting master writs. 1 for the dye. and 1 because i was impatient and wanted the 400+ vouchers to complete my personal crafting hall. The rest I don't do because they aren't worth it. I have obtained, however, well over 100 chromium platings from doing writs, collecting surveys dropped from writs and refining. I have not done any dedicated 'farming' for jewelry crafting materials. I have purchased platinum dust, to refine, so that I have enough to do the writs however.
  • tmbrinks
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    [*] Do you feel these writs are worth completing?

    The main reason they were not worth completing was the cost of the tempers on the PLAYER-CONTROLLED market.

    IF the drop rate on tempers continues to force player to buy from the Guild Stores to complete any reasonable amount of writs,
    AND if the PLAYERS continue to increase the price of the tempers (maybe because now the Writs are more rewarding),
    THEN Jewelry writs will in the long term become not-profitable again, once prices of tempers go up.

    All the other materials are in the same market as well. Yes, jewelry doesn't have a hireling, that hurts. However, the drop rates from refining are IDENTICAL to the other crafts. They are lower for completing writs 20% vs 30% for the other crafts. Let's focus on the relative value compared to the current prices, rather than rehashing this same old argument over and over.. please.

    Identical to other crafts? There's an extra refining process with jewelry so the plating is 10x as rare. When you also consider the cost/drops of trait stones they will never be cost effective to do unless they get rid of the extra refining process or increase the drop rate.

    see above post. not typing it out again.
  • Aznarb
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    Naolwyn wrote: »
    Although I like the idea of blue tier master writs being introduced, I have a feeling the blue tier grains and platings are going to go up in price.

    I feel like the blue platings are already super expensive now. Sigh. Zos please just get rid of grains and give us straight platings. That would help.

    This.
    Remove grain, we don't need this it just make price crazy and wrist reward not worth the price.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • Zulera301
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    the biggest problem, as most people have stated, is the rarity of platings and trait stones.
    the fact that the 1/10th items (grains) are still all more expensive than the upgrade mats of the other crafts is indicative of a much larger problem. If the grains WERE the upgrade mats, it would be much more in line. Still a bit expensive, but that's fine.

    BUT... for some statistical data... on PC-NA, currently prices of upgrade mats are roughly around as follows:

    GREEN: 20-30 (other crafts), ~150 (grains), ~1000 (plating)
    BLUE: 30-40 (other crafts), ~350 (grains), ~4000 (plating)
    PURPLE: 250-700 (other crafts), ~2800 (grains), ~28,500 (plating)
    GOLD: ~3000-5000 (other crafts), ~7500 (grains), ~77,000 (plating)

    so with these figures in mind, literally all of the 1/10th-mats from jewelcrafting are all several times higher than the full upgrade mats of any other crafting. And while I know ZOS does not wish to make them equal given they wanted JC to be "special" (in their words), perhaps if they got rid of grains, it would still be harder to reach the same potential as the other crafts, but it would be a lot more doable. Even if they nerfed the drop rate of these items to amp up the price a little more, the current prices/values of these things (given their rarity) is a bit outrageous.
    and I know that using player-generated pricing isn't the see-all-end-all for rarity issues, but given that items' prices are almost always directly influenced by their rarity, it is pretty telling.

    BUT. to tie all of this back into jewelcrafting writs... given current market trends, blue writs would need to have a minimum of about 35-40, purples would need to have a minimum of around 160-180, and golds would need to have a minimum of about 600-750, at least.

    as soon as ZOS updates their "Master Crafter's Forgotten Mail", we can probably see a better sample size to work with?
    Shortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
    "Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""
  • Malborn66
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    ZOS_GinaBruno:

    The way that you strangle the supply of Purple Platings means that all of your Writs cost far more than the return.
    Due to Writ drops etc I actually have more Gold than Purple which is clearly unreasonable.

    As I only use merchants to supply the kit to gain the traits, the extreme prices in the market place are indicative of the shortage of the required platings.

    I currently routinely delete Master writs without looking at them as they are not worth anything. I have no need of the chits as I have already bought everything that I need with them. About time to change them...

    If you introduce Blue writs at a lower level of reward or even the same as Purple, I doubt that I will change my delete practices.

    I am very slowly upgrading my jewellary as supplies come up.
    Malborn66
    PC-EU
    CP 1085
  • redlink1979
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    Naolwyn wrote: »
    Although I like the idea of blue tier master writs being introduced, I have a feeling the blue tier grains and platings are going to go up in price.

    Supply and demand...
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"

    Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 1900 CP
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  • redlink1979
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    I feel like the blue platings are already super expensive now.

    No they aren't.
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"

    Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 1900 CP
    Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1470 CP
    SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1500 CP
    Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1300 CP
  • ccfeeling
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    ZOS_GinaBruno

    If you ask those question , say to say , I doubt that you never do Jewelry Crafting Master Writ .
  • Inklings
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno


    The template characters master writ container is still giving out the old jewelry master writs so we arnt able to get a fast easy amount of these to see the numbers for testing. Is there a reason the new values are not listed in the patch notes? What harm would that do? Any chance we can get those numbers posted here so we dont have to wait until thats fixed to give feedback?
  • Dusk_Coven
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Now... supply is still an issue, prices will go up as people use them.

    If the ability to acquire plating continues to be an issue, driving up the price to make jewelry writs unprofitable, then capping the price with an NPC vendor is the surest way to stabilize that variable in designing jewelry writs.

    You wouldn't have to touch anything else, just introduce a vendor selling plating grains, or add them to an existing vendor's inventory. If ZOS wanted to be really cautious they could add it to the Golden Vendor's inventory and thereby adjust the price from week to week as they get feedback.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on July 9, 2019 8:35PM
  • Dusk_Coven
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    SUPPOSING that we can solve the issue of cost per voucher,
    I feel that another issue that really needs looking at is the RANGE of voucher rewards in each tier.

    Right now, in the live server, you can have a very wide range of rewards for a Legendary writ -- 100's to 450+ if you are very lucky.
    At over 400 vouchers, the cost per writ is tolerable at possibly under 900/voucher (and some people still refuse to do them at all).

    However, this also means that market pricing will float to only make top-reward writs profitable so long as materials pricing is pretty much completely up to Guild Stores because the ability of players to get the materials on their own is difficult for whatever reasons (e.g., some items are in PvP only content or trial only content or the difficulty of getting Legendary plating remains as-is).

    Therefore, if the voucher reward RANGE remains very wide, I still see people simply destroying all writs that aren't in the top 10% of the reward range.

    PROPOSAL: (1) Minimum voucher reward should be 80% of the highest possible reward. (2) Reduce the drop rate of Master Jewelry Writs to 20% of normal.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on July 9, 2019 9:15PM
  • kojou
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    I was kinda hoping that eventually the drop rates for jewelry materials would increase, so that the master writs I already have would actually be worth doing one day...

    It seems the solution is to give higher rewards for future master writs, so I can safely destroy all the ones I saved.

    Playing since beta...
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