Low Population keep capturing (EU server)

xeNNNNN

I've said it before just lockout the point gains for specific periods and favour the majority.

Point gains for factions unlock 12:00 Midday and then Lock them at 12:00 Midnight.

If you can only play during the lock out time then sorry but tough but at least you can still get AP, the majority will play between between those times and we should never cater to the minority in this instance because its that reluctance that allows for nightcaps to begin with.

Then as a bonus to encourage even more play while the points are unlocked make the campaign rewards much better, add legendary and epic crafting material bags etc at end of campaign rewards things like that give PvPers incentive to actually play and try hard to get good stuff from the game. Hell add a voucher system earned from end of campaign if they're the top 2.5% enough vouchers to get a single legendary gear available of their choice PvE or PvP sets (excluding trial sets), anything behind that would need another campaign or longer before they can pick and choose depending on how efficiently they play and how much they play. Maximum Effort. Maximum Reward. Just do something to grant more rewards for it.

It isn't that hard.

TequilaFire

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I've said it before just lockout the point gains for specific periods and favour the majority.

Point gains for factions unlock 12:00 Midday and then Lock them at 12:00 Midnight.

If you can only play during the lock out time then sorry but tough but at least you can still get AP, the majority will play between between those times and we should never cater to the minority in this instance because its that reluctance that allows for nightcaps to begin with.

Then as a bonus to encourage even more play while the points are unlocked make the campaign rewards much better, add legendary and epic crafting material bags etc at end of campaign rewards things like that give PvPers incentive to actually play and try hard to get good stuff from the game. Hell add a voucher system earned from end of campaign if they're the top 2.5% enough vouchers to get a single legendary gear available of their choice PvE or PvP sets (excluding trial sets), anything behind that would need another campaign or longer before they can pick and choose depending on how efficiently they play and how much they play. Maximum Effort. Maximum Reward. Just do something to grant more rewards for it.

It isn't that hard.

But who's Midday and Midnight?
They are not the same over the world.

idk

Iki wrote: »

FFS. Once again someone makes a post about very real issue that for years have rendered pvp boring and frustrating for many players. And how does this brilliant forum-community respond? By once again going through same old stupid time-zone conversation. Like, how many times do you need to mention that we have time-zones? I know about time-zones, so does opening poster and probably everyone else here too, this game is for adults afterall for gods sake.

Wow, What as fabulous argument that is telling players you do not matter because you do not play when I do.

I suggest they read this post from this thread as it explains how pointless the idea is. It is really well thought out.

AhPook_Is_Here

Aurielle wrote: »

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

It’s amazing that this had to be stated. OP, the sun does not rise and set on North America. What you call “night capping” is our Aussie/Oceanic friends playing the game. It would be utterly unfair (not to mention disrespectful) to them if their efforts were not valued as highly as ours.

Umm the sun never sets on American interests, and bases. I agree there is no such thing as night-capping. If anything they should adjust the scoring to reflect greater individual effort with something like this:

S/PxC where S=Score per increment, P=players in the scoring faction, and C=the player cap per faction. This way players who make the largest individual efforts see the largest score rewards.

xeNNNNN

TequilaFire wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I've said it before just lockout the point gains for specific periods and favour the majority.

Point gains for factions unlock 12:00 Midday and then Lock them at 12:00 Midnight.

If you can only play during the lock out time then sorry but tough but at least you can still get AP, the majority will play between between those times and we should never cater to the minority in this instance because its that reluctance that allows for nightcaps to begin with.

Then as a bonus to encourage even more play while the points are unlocked make the campaign rewards much better, add legendary and epic crafting material bags etc at end of campaign rewards things like that give PvPers incentive to actually play and try hard to get good stuff from the game. Hell add a voucher system earned from end of campaign if they're the top 2.5% enough vouchers to get a single legendary gear available of their choice PvE or PvP sets (excluding trial sets), anything behind that would need another campaign or longer before they can pick and choose depending on how efficiently they play and how much they play. Maximum Effort. Maximum Reward. Just do something to grant more rewards for it.

It isn't that hard.

But who's Midday and Midnight?
They are not the same over the world.

Base it on the country hosting the server at the time. So for EU its German Time.

NAs time zone would be based on which coast they're on and state.

Its only fair. I will get a bad connection regardless because of how the UK connects to the servers in frankfurt so and I am not even usually playing until like 5pm either way so I miss half of it myself if done like this.

As for people saying its unfair on aus/oceanic well they should get their own server anyway. Should of happened years ago. But for now its EU and NA so yeah why mess with the largest population for the few? Cant please everyone and cant fix it for everyone its completely silly to even attempt to make it fair for all when time is concerned because it never will be unless they have servers in their region. Alls you can do is do what you have to for the majority. Besides games aren't democracies either way.

Tommy_The_Gun

Scoring imho should be population based.

General Idea:
- You fight against full population enemy, you get more potential points (more points for the score).
- You wait till enemy has low population (1 bar for example) at night or morning, you get less potential points (less points for the score).

Some ideas:
Points for capturing enemy objective will be dependent on population ratio. For example:
- You have full population and enemy has full population = nothing has changed.
- You have 3 bars of population and enemy has 1 = you get less potential points.

This would require to change the scale form 3 bar & locked population to 5 - 9 bars & locked population. This would allow to set certain "penalty" modifiers if population differences is too high. For example 2x, 5x, or 10x less potential points.
So in a scenario when 1 faction night or morning caps, such faction, in order to have 1 point, would have to capture 10 enemy objectives. This would make it less impactful for the final Campaign Score & reward playing when all factions have equal population.

note:
- The AP you get for capturing objectives would remain the same.
- The potential points scaling would not affect your "native" objectives (keeps, scrolls, towns, recurses and outposts).
- The only way to "reset" potential points gained for capturing enemy objective (if it was captured when population difference was high, when enemy had 1 bar & you had 3 for example) would be to re-take the objective when populations are equal.

Sandman929

The problem I have with population based scoring is that it rewards playing in prime time when the game functions at its worst. Why is that somehow better and more worthy of rewards? People should just stop advocating for time based tiers and start focusing on a different scoring system altogether that isn't tied to AP gain, or suggest changes to how AP is gained rather then when its gained most/least.

TequilaFire

This has been discussed ad infinitum through the years and I used to get just as mad waking up to the map painted all one color. Then I realized it was easy to take the map back and enjoy the ap for doing so.
There really is no fair way to solve this in an international game with out severe restrictions like region lock.
Any code to adjust per user time zone would be very convoluted.
Dynamic population caps would be nice but don't hold your breath on ZOS doing that.

Xarc

I have an idea.
If it 's night for you, you only get 200 ap for a keep, 50 APfor a ressource, and 100 AP for outpost.

hm, nvm.

Vlad9425

Here’s the bottom line. Nightcapping exists on the EU server

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

This ^ Smh

Try playing on EU PS4. All 18 keeps are red all night, all Scrolls are captured by EP. There are no AD or DC to defend or attack. That is literally the definition of nightcapping on ESO. I don’t know how else to explain it to you people lol.

Vlad9425

idk wrote: »

Iki wrote: »

FFS. Once again someone makes a post about very real issue that for years have rendered pvp boring and frustrating for many players. And how does this brilliant forum-community respond? By once again going through same old stupid time-zone conversation. Like, how many times do you need to mention that we have time-zones? I know about time-zones, so does opening poster and probably everyone else here too, this game is for adults afterall for gods sake.

Wow, What as fabulous argument that is telling players you do not matter because you do not play when I do.

I suggest they read this post from this thread as it explains how pointless the idea is. It is really well thought out.

Literally no one has told you that you don’t matter. Stop making up childish excuses just to stir up drama.

jediodyn_ESO

Maybe points should be increased/decreased based on:
1) # of players online
And
2) balance between # of players on each faction.

Vlad9425

yodased wrote: »

The proposed punishment of AP gains is ridiculous. So someone who wants caltrops or vigor and happen to be from Australia now has to take 4x as long because you are upset they exist. Ok so what disadvantage do you have that they are exploiting? You are asleep.

So there is a significant population drop during the day while mlgpro players are at school, should we dynamically adjust those gains too?

Its a game that has a world population and also taking under defended or empty keeps obviously is a viable way to win the campaign.

Does it suck to log into a map that is completely blanketed another color? Sure, but it sure gives you something to do every day.

No one is exploiting any systems here, you just are upset about how other people play the game differently than you.

Hurdurdur it's PvP not pvdoor is not acceptable as an answer since PvP is battlegrounds and cryodiil is literally pvdoor or pvwall with defending players by design.

What do you mean proposed punishment of AP gains? I’m not even on about AP. I’m on about an alliance going on at low population hours and taking every keep because there’s no one on to defend those keeps. I’m not proposing any punishment at all in fact. I just want a scoring system that doesn’t benefit the alliance that decides to group a Zerg at low population hours to take the whole map for a cheap campaign win.

Vlad9425

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Maybe points should be increased/decreased based on:
1) # of players online
And
2) balance between # of players on each faction.

Good idea thank you for not commenting about how the sun rises and sets like half of the delusional people in here 😀

TequilaFire

These so called "zergs" that nightcap are usually just a handful of players.
So just buff keep walls and doors and make npc guards stronger so they have to work harder.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Vlad9425 wrote: »

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

Not true. There are less people on at night

Whose night?

US night?
EU night?
Australia night?
Game time night?

Out of those the only one that treats all players equally is Game Time Night?


All The Best

Vlad9425

DoccEff wrote: »

Ever thought about the european server? You need like 10 people on 4am and you can take the whole map without a lot of resistance. You score the same points on a map with a total of 20 players than on a map with 400. Now tell me how this is balanced.
This might not be a problem on NA servers, but it is a huge one on EU.

Yes this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say all this time but for some reason 90% of the people in here seem to have missed what Im implying *sigh*

Animal_Mother

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I've said it before just lockout the point gains for specific periods and favour the majority.

Point gains for factions unlock 12:00 Midday and then Lock them at 12:00 Midnight.

If you can only play during the lock out time then sorry but tough but at least you can still get AP, the majority will play between between those times and we should never cater to the minority in this instance because its that reluctance that allows for nightcaps to begin with.

Then as a bonus to encourage even more play while the points are unlocked make the campaign rewards much better, add legendary and epic crafting material bags etc at end of campaign rewards things like that give PvPers incentive to actually play and try hard to get good stuff from the game. Hell add a voucher system earned from end of campaign if they're the top 2.5% enough vouchers to get a single legendary gear available of their choice PvE or PvP sets (excluding trial sets), anything behind that would need another campaign or longer before they can pick and choose depending on how efficiently they play and how much they play. Maximum Effort. Maximum Reward. Just do something to grant more rewards for it.

It isn't that hard.

So if I’m play from 1800 to 0400 - US Mountain, I’m expected to lose 40% of my AP? Even if I’m one of the few defending?

No. You change your schedule.

Vlad9425

MrGarlic wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

<SNIP>

My suggestion is to pause or reduce how many points can be earned during certain hours in the Campaign. Thoughts?

EDIT: this is a thread to suggest ideas on changing how the scoring works and I'm not suggesting people should be punished for playing at certain times because obviously due to different time zones some people can only play during these times.

Punishment. That is exactly what you are suggesting.

Why should it benefit you? Why not reduce the points accrued during USA-peak times instead. Maybe that will encourage players to play outside USA-Peak-times, reducing PvP server lag and spreading balance to where it's needed?

See how it feels when you get discriminated against simply becasue of where you live.

Lol what exactly are you being punished for? And how are you being discriminated? Please explain cos I’m a bit confused about your reasoning.

It's simple. Because I live in a different time-zone that is not the OP's then I should be awarded less achievement opportunity than them.

It's not my fault more people play at a certain time of day, but the OP suggests I should get less opportunity becasue of it..

Look, I don’t know which server you play on so I can’t comment on your experience but in the EU server which I play EP groups come on during the low population hours to capture the entire map when there’s no AD or DC left on the server to defend their keeps. As a result of this they end up racking up points overnight which puts them significantly in the lead over the other 2 alliances for minimal work because they are taking empty keeps. You seem to have taken a suggestion to change the scoring system personally because you are in a different time zone but it’s not an argument about time zones at all.

yodased

Vlad9425 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The proposed punishment of AP gains is ridiculous. So someone who wants caltrops or vigor and happen to be from Australia now has to take 4x as long because you are upset they exist. Ok so what disadvantage do you have that they are exploiting? You are asleep.

So there is a significant population drop during the day while mlgpro players are at school, should we dynamically adjust those gains too?

Its a game that has a world population and also taking under defended or empty keeps obviously is a viable way to win the campaign.

Does it suck to log into a map that is completely blanketed another color? Sure, but it sure gives you something to do every day.

No one is exploiting any systems here, you just are upset about how other people play the game differently than you.

Hurdurdur it's PvP not pvdoor is not acceptable as an answer since PvP is battlegrounds and cryodiil is literally pvdoor or pvwall with defending players by design.

What do you mean proposed punishment of AP gains? I’m not even on about AP. I’m on about an alliance going on at low population hours and taking every keep because there’s no one on to defend those keeps. I’m not proposing any punishment at all in fact. I just want a scoring system that doesn’t benefit the alliance that decides to group a Zerg at low population hours to take the whole map for a cheap campaign win.

If you reduce the AP gained by a % based on time to reflect "night capping" that is an AP punishment. Low population flips happen because there are people who are online during that time from other countries and with opposite hours of mainstream US.

Again, you are upset about the score, so you propose a way to alter the score so it fits your playtime. That is a punishment for other people because they are playing when you can't or won't.

That's a pretty simple concept to understand.

Ectheliontnacil

disintegr8 wrote: »

It's a global game and everyone's on different time zones. Would it be appropriate of me to ask them to restrict points or population on the NA server while I'm at work because all the 'Murkens are playing in their prime time and us Aussies can't play?

You choose to sleep - I have to work

Mate idk about you. But if anything I choose to work but I have to sleep.

MojaveHeld

yodased wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The proposed punishment of AP gains is ridiculous. So someone who wants caltrops or vigor and happen to be from Australia now has to take 4x as long because you are upset they exist. Ok so what disadvantage do you have that they are exploiting? You are asleep.

So there is a significant population drop during the day while mlgpro players are at school, should we dynamically adjust those gains too?

Its a game that has a world population and also taking under defended or empty keeps obviously is a viable way to win the campaign.

Does it suck to log into a map that is completely blanketed another color? Sure, but it sure gives you something to do every day.

No one is exploiting any systems here, you just are upset about how other people play the game differently than you.

Hurdurdur it's PvP not pvdoor is not acceptable as an answer since PvP is battlegrounds and cryodiil is literally pvdoor or pvwall with defending players by design.

What do you mean proposed punishment of AP gains? I’m not even on about AP. I’m on about an alliance going on at low population hours and taking every keep because there’s no one on to defend those keeps. I’m not proposing any punishment at all in fact. I just want a scoring system that doesn’t benefit the alliance that decides to group a Zerg at low population hours to take the whole map for a cheap campaign win.

If you reduce the AP gained by a % based on time to reflect "night capping" that is an AP punishment. Low population flips happen because there are people who are online during that time from other countries and with opposite hours of mainstream US.

Again, you are upset about the score, so you propose a way to alter the score so it fits your playtime. That is a punishment for other people because they are playing when you can't or won't.

That's a pretty simple concept to understand.

Uh, many of the proposed fixes in this thread leave AP alone completely. They would just reduce the campaign score gained by alliances during that time. Completely different things, and very much not a punishment. stop being so intentionally disingenuous.

Vlad9425

yodased wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The proposed punishment of AP gains is ridiculous. So someone who wants caltrops or vigor and happen to be from Australia now has to take 4x as long because you are upset they exist. Ok so what disadvantage do you have that they are exploiting? You are asleep.

So there is a significant population drop during the day while mlgpro players are at school, should we dynamically adjust those gains too?

Its a game that has a world population and also taking under defended or empty keeps obviously is a viable way to win the campaign.

Does it suck to log into a map that is completely blanketed another color? Sure, but it sure gives you something to do every day.

No one is exploiting any systems here, you just are upset about how other people play the game differently than you.

Hurdurdur it's PvP not pvdoor is not acceptable as an answer since PvP is battlegrounds and cryodiil is literally pvdoor or pvwall with defending players by design.

What do you mean proposed punishment of AP gains? I’m not even on about AP. I’m on about an alliance going on at low population hours and taking every keep because there’s no one on to defend those keeps. I’m not proposing any punishment at all in fact. I just want a scoring system that doesn’t benefit the alliance that decides to group a Zerg at low population hours to take the whole map for a cheap campaign win.

If you reduce the AP gained by a % based on time to reflect "night capping" that is an AP punishment. Low population flips happen because there are people who are online during that time from other countries and with opposite hours of mainstream US.

Again, you are upset about the score, so you propose a way to alter the score so it fits your playtime. That is a punishment for other people because they are playing when you can't or won't.

That's a pretty simple concept to understand.

I literally don’t care about anything fitting my playtime like you mentioned above. It makes no difference to me I’m not that selfish. It’s a thread about suggesting alternatives to the scoring system but half of the post is full of people saying they would feel “punished” or “disrespected” if the scoring system were to be changed instead of suggesting alternative ideas. If you think the scoring system is fine the way it is then great, good for you but from what I’ve seen on the server I play on it is used to exploit the outcome of the campaign. I should be allowed to voice my concerns about my experience with the game as should everyone else.

yodased

Oh you are complaining about actual campaign score?

So you are fine with getting 6.5k AP for a undefended keep as long as it didn't give the alliance the same score?

You are not on about pvdoor emperors and grand overlords?

This is just a simple request to even the odds for a campaign to not be "exploited" by using the system as it was designed during times that you don't approve of.

So fine change all of my AP references to campaign score and the same logic applies.

You get points for taking objectives from the opponent. It is a smarter strategy to take those objectives when there isnt defense.

Even in prime time its a smarter idea to take all of your enemies objectives and avoid defenders at all costs. This is a viable strategy that will win the campaign.

Im not being disingenuous. Semantics matter sure but points for campaigns and points for people are interchangeable in this situation.

Vlad9425

Changed the title and description of forum post to better reflect what I’m actually on about lol

Vlad9425

yodased wrote: »

Oh you are complaining about actual campaign score?

So you are fine with getting 6.5k AP for a undefended keep as long as it didn't give the alliance the same score?

You are not on about pvdoor emperors and grand overlords?

This is just a simple request to even the odds for a campaign to not be "exploited" by using the system as it was designed during times that you don't approve of.

So fine change all of my AP references to campaign score and the same logic applies.

You get points for taking objectives from the opponent. It is a smarter strategy to take those objectives when there isnt defense.

Even in prime time its a smarter idea to take all of your enemies objectives and avoid defenders at all costs. This is a viable strategy that will win the campaign.

Im not being disingenuous. Semantics matter sure but points for campaigns and points for people are interchangeable in this situation.

Ok so now the tables have flipped and you are suggesting that I should gather up a bunch of people in the middle of the night to take almost empty keeps because that’s the best strategy to win the campaign? Sure you’re right it is the best strategy but it ends up undermining the work done by everyone during the day which is the whole reason why I’m suggesting a change to the scoring system. At this point it’s just a waste of time even suggesting it though since the game has bigger problems than this atm.

MojaveHeld

yodased wrote: »

Oh you are complaining about actual campaign score?

So you are fine with getting 6.5k AP for a undefended keep as long as it didn't give the alliance the same score?

You are not on about pvdoor emperors and grand overlords?

This is just a simple request to even the odds for a campaign to not be "exploited" by using the system as it was designed during times that you don't approve of.

So fine change all of my AP references to campaign score and the same logic applies.

You get points for taking objectives from the opponent. It is a smarter strategy to take those objectives when there isnt defense.

Even in prime time its a smarter idea to take all of your enemies objectives and avoid defenders at all costs. This is a viable strategy that will win the campaign.

Im not being disingenuous. Semantics matter sure but points for campaigns and points for people are interchangeable in this situation.

No, they are not interchangeable. Reducing AP would be personally punishing those who usually play during off hours. Keeping the AP the same but reducing campaign score during that time doesn't punish them in the slightest. It much more accurately reflects the scale of their efforts during that time, as they had to do far less for those keeps and resources, so it shouldn't give their alliance the same score as players who did it during peak hours. Balances out the campaign while also not punishing players who are on during off-peak hours. No possible legitimate reason to be upset about that.

CambionDaemon

And once again who decides the off -peak hours, in what timezone, any way that you look at it you are punishing anyone that doesn't live in the 'correct' timezone. Yes the scoring system is flawed, it would require a great deal of time/money for them to start changing it.

And who is anyone on here to judge that someone did far less for keeps of resources.

Vlad9425

CambionDaemon wrote: »

And once again who decides the off -peak hours, in what timezone, any way that you look at it you are punishing anyone that doesn't live in the 'correct' timezone. Yes the scoring system is flawed, it would require a great deal of time/money for them to start changing it.

And who is anyone on here to judge that someone did far less for keeps of resources.

There are no suggestions to punish anyone at all. If you go to the EU server after say 2AM on weekdays (UK time) you will notice all the zones are almost empty. Also its not a thread about judging who does what or when it is a thread about suggestions about the scoring system in Cyrodiil right now.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Vlad9425 wrote: »

I believe it’s a bit unfair that the game continues to count score at the same rate in the low population hours on the EU server because what ends up happening is one alliance Night Caps the whole map, gets Emp and possibly scrolls as well completely undermining the effort of the other 2 alliances during the day. Then they accumulate thousands of points during the hours where there’s no people on from the other 2 alliances which ruins the end result of the campaign.

My suggestion is to pause or reduce how many points can be earned during certain hours in the Campaign (low population hours). Thoughts?

EDIT: this is a thread to suggest ideas on changing how the scoring works and I'm not suggesting people should be punished for playing at certain times because obviously due to different time zones some people can only play during these times. Please comment your suggestions.

With only 2 servers worldwide, both are populated more or less at any time of day from people of the whole world.
You penalize everyone with that idea. Europeans & Africans playing on the NA server. Russians from 10 different time zones, everyone from Asia & Oceania on both servers, and everyone from the American Continent playing on EU server.