Low Population keep capturing (EU server)

JamieAubrey

Edaphon wrote: »

The whole game should be paused when I'm not online.

What if you never log back in

mb10

EP do this on every platform lmao weirdos

Vlad9425

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Still stunned by the people who think their schedule is everyone's schedule. Every time.

There are peak hours for every server, and there are off-hours. In those off-hours, certain toxic groups have decided to try to exploit things in Cyrodiil. It's a problem that needs a solution, so don't be stunned that people are looking for them and providing ideas.

It’s quite a difficult discussion to have because since there are multiple platforms which have 2 servers each but currently on PS4 EU EP has every keep captured and will hold the map overnight resulting in them being thousands of points ahead and they will continue doing this every night cos there’s no one online on the other alliances. It seems by the posts I’m reading that things are way different on other servers so maybe this thread is just a waste of time lol.

Sandman929

I think a lot of people would be in agreement that campaign scoring should be overhauled. It's the method suggested that is the issue.

ellahellabella

.

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think a lot of people would be in agreement that campaign scoring should be overhauled. It's the method suggested that is the issue.

Now, THIS I agree on.

Edaphon

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Edaphon wrote: »

The whole game should be paused when I'm not online.

What if you never log back in

Karivaa

Hahaha! It’s part of the strategy.

aetherial_heavenn

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Still stunned by the people who think their schedule is everyone's schedule. Every time.

There are peak hours for every server, and there are off-hours. In those off-hours, certain toxic groups have decided to try to exploit things in Cyrodiil. It's a problem that needs a solution, so don't be stunned that people are looking for them and providing ideas.

But it's not exploiting anything, it's just playing the game. Why is my favorite time window more valuable? If a group has time to play when there isn't enough resistance to make me happy that they "earned" it, then certain time periods should be less valuable? Makes zero sense.
If you want real scoring based on real PvP, I agree, but simply tweaking the existing scoring mechanics to favor when I play? No.

I presented an example earlier of a group that used the low night population as an excuse to harass the few players on from other alliances into submission with hate whispers and outright threats, counting on the off-hours to be able to get away with this and make their alliance cruise to a win. The lower population of off-hours is inherently more susceptible to this and other forms of abuse, so making this exploitation much less profitable is the key to disincentivizing it enough to severely limit the occurrences of it.

If they are harrassing report them. SEA/Oceanic players are already handicapped byhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439549/oceanic-lag-now-300-400-ms-even-with-a-vpn-was-250-300/p31

and now you want to punish them by making their efforts worth less?

CambionDaemon

WTF!!! Are you honestly being serious, ESO runs 24/7, there is no way that ZOS can do anything about it apart from switching the servers off and on at a certain times.

The fact that night-capping exist just shows that there are people from all over playing at all times. ANY change to how the scoring works (due to the time of day) will backfire straight away.

The main problem with Cyrodiil is that there is no balance between faction numbers (PS4EU is giant zergs of EP, but that is different on every platform/region).

ItsMeToo

FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Sandman929 wrote: »

Still stunned by the people who think their schedule is everyone's schedule. Every time.

Its fair to assume that poeple on a NA server expect other players to be in the same 5 hours time zone.

Also its change nothing to the fact that night time on NA is a low pop time on the NA servers.

idk

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Its completely unfair that the game continues to count score in the late hours because what ends up happening is one alliance Night Caps the whole map, gets Emp and possibly scrolls as well completely undermining the effort of the other 2 alliances during the day. Then they accumulate thousands of points during the night which ruins the end result of the campaign.

My suggestion is to pause or reduce how many points can be earned during certain hours in the Campaign. Thoughts?

EDIT: this is a thread to suggest ideas on changing how the scoring works and I'm not suggesting people should be punished for playing at certain times because obviously due to different time zones some people can only play during these times.

it is completely unfair to suggest someone's game time should not count or count for less just because they do not play during the same hours as you.

This is a 24 hour game. People work different hours, live all across the globe. As such restricting players, which his exactly what the message of this OP is about, is essentially sending the message to people they are not wanted in ESO because they do not conform to our playtime.

SaucyMcSauceface

I think that all Americans should be penalised for 'nightcapping'. I go to sleep in Australia, and wake to find that a bunch of Americans have literally 'nightcapped' everything while we were asleep.
#teachtimezonesinAmericanschools.

idk

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

I think that all Americans should be penalised for 'nightcapping'. I go to sleep in Australia, and wake to find that a bunch of Americans have literally 'nightcapped' everything while we were asleep.
#teachtimezonesinAmericanschools.

Exactly my point about this being a global game. It is rather selfish to try to restrict and limit players just because they do not play when you do.

I am pretty sure that no matter how many threads of this subject are created Zos has enough sense to not send a message to half the world their money is not wanted.

yodased

If its that important to you recruit a team of people to 1vX them at that time. Im sure some super elite pro players could make it so unfun for the pvdoor zerlings within a few nights that they all alt f4 uninstall and play carebear online again.

How dare they play the game whilst the masters sleep.

MojaveHeld

Look, it's just incredibly dishonest and disengenious to claim that servers don't have home zones. They do. Therefore, the home zone is peak hours, and during the middle of the night in those areas (NA and EU) is off-hours. So yes, nightcapping is absolutely a thing, and it's not conducive to a productive discussion on the topic to claim otherwise. Disagree with the propsed solution if you want, but all the "You're selfish and there is no nightcapping" comments are completely pointless and add nothing of value to the discussion.

xylena_lazarow

It's referred to as "night-capping" because the NA server population changes dramatically during NA night time, typically with a high pop faction zerging the map and the other two logging off. Last month it was EP, this month it's AD. Stop knee-jerking over the term "night-capping" and demand that ZOS take a break from "killing it" and address the competition-destroying effects of the severe faction population imbalance that occurs during NA night time.

MojaveHeld

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Still stunned by the people who think their schedule is everyone's schedule. Every time.

There are peak hours for every server, and there are off-hours. In those off-hours, certain toxic groups have decided to try to exploit things in Cyrodiil. It's a problem that needs a solution, so don't be stunned that people are looking for them and providing ideas.

But it's not exploiting anything, it's just playing the game. Why is my favorite time window more valuable? If a group has time to play when there isn't enough resistance to make me happy that they "earned" it, then certain time periods should be less valuable? Makes zero sense.
If you want real scoring based on real PvP, I agree, but simply tweaking the existing scoring mechanics to favor when I play? No.

I presented an example earlier of a group that used the low night population as an excuse to harass the few players on from other alliances into submission with hate whispers and outright threats, counting on the off-hours to be able to get away with this and make their alliance cruise to a win. The lower population of off-hours is inherently more susceptible to this and other forms of abuse, so making this exploitation much less profitable is the key to disincentivizing it enough to severely limit the occurrences of it.

If they are harrassing report them. SEA/Oceanic players are already handicapped byhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439549/oceanic-lag-now-300-400-ms-even-with-a-vpn-was-250-300/p31

and now you want to punish them by making their efforts worth less?

They were reported, by multiple players, several of them had previously received temp bans for cheating. ZOS did nothing. The problem remained. And no, reducing the amount of points earned for the alliance during the night is not punishing Oceanic players, it's making it so that their efforts aren't massively over weighted and prone to exploitation like currently. It's actually fixing an imbalance, not creating it.

MaxJrFTW

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

True, but how come there's only one faction doing all the capping overnight(us time), while the other factions have 5 players on at most.

Idc, i haven't been to Cyrodiil in months. Saying there's no night capping though, bs...

idk

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

True, but how come there's only one faction doing all the capping overnight(us time), while the other factions have 5 players on at most.

Idc, i haven't been to Cyrodiil in months. Saying there's no night capping though, bs...

You may want to read what you quoted one more time.

What they said is it is always daytime somewhere in the world that is reasonable to expect MMORPG players to reside. So when it is nighttime for the grand ole USA those in AUS that are playing in Cyrodiil and turning the map are playing during their day time.

Another way to put is what OP calls night capping is normal day time for a great many in this global game of things. So they are correct.

Edit: it is also to be expected that you might find some guilds that are AUS/NZ and other similar times time zones just might play together which would explain why one faction benefits. Elementary,my dear Watson.

RedTalon

Before faction lock night capping became less of an issue happen, but during downtimes people would switch factions to stop the night capers and so on

aetherial_heavenn

MojaveHeld wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Still stunned by the people who think their schedule is everyone's schedule. Every time.

There are peak hours for every server, and there are off-hours. In those off-hours, certain toxic groups have decided to try to exploit things in Cyrodiil. It's a problem that needs a solution, so don't be stunned that people are looking for them and providing ideas.

But it's not exploiting anything, it's just playing the game. Why is my favorite time window more valuable? If a group has time to play when there isn't enough resistance to make me happy that they "earned" it, then certain time periods should be less valuable? Makes zero sense.
If you want real scoring based on real PvP, I agree, but simply tweaking the existing scoring mechanics to favor when I play? No.

I presented an example earlier of a group that used the low night population as an excuse to harass the few players on from other alliances into submission with hate whispers and outright threats, counting on the off-hours to be able to get away with this and make their alliance cruise to a win. The lower population of off-hours is inherently more susceptible to this and other forms of abuse, so making this exploitation much less profitable is the key to disincentivizing it enough to severely limit the occurrences of it.

If they are harrassing report them. SEA/Oceanic players are already handicapped byhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439549/oceanic-lag-now-300-400-ms-even-with-a-vpn-was-250-300/p31

and now you want to punish them by making their efforts worth less?

They were reported, by multiple players, several of them had previously received temp bans for cheating. ZOS did nothing. The problem remained. And no, reducing the amount of points earned for the alliance during the night is not punishing Oceanic players, it's making it so that their efforts aren't massively over weighted and prone to exploitation like currently. It's actually fixing an imbalance, not creating it.

I am sorry your reports were not acted on. That is not good and ZoS should look at that problem. Have you tried escalating it? Or complaining on reddit since ZoS staff seem to respond there when they don't here? Threats should be acted on immediately by any reputable company or group.

On the alleged nightcapping...ie off peak player imbalance:
Revamping the scoring system to reflect pop imbalances and exploits is one thing. Dismissing the efforts of half the world playing the game in their prime time by using the derogatory term 'nightcapping' simply arcs up players who play off peak US or off peak Eu. Language matters if you want allies. That's all I was really saying.

Plus it was an opportunity to show others how difficult it is to actually play the game at all in the eastern hemisphere atm. The fact we have gone from 220ms ping to 400 plus ms ping due to akamai and other changes in recent chapters matters more to most of us who play off peak due to location than any concerns US players may have about a zerg PvDooring off peak. And after 31 pages we have had exactly no response from ZoS. So forgive my somewhat salty response to you calling me a nightcapper because I play in my prime time and still manage to fight with 400ms ping.

Vizikul

Nightcapping is indeed an issue, probably more so on EU than on NA. I'm on xbox EU and I honestly cannot remember the last time an alliance other than EP achieved a victory in the vivec campaign. Every month EP wins with 20k score points ahead, and that's not because they are so overwhelmingly dominant, no it's because of these cheap nightcapping tactics.

I feel Cyrodiil should be a somewhat balanced competition, where each alliance has a fair chance to win the campaign and the victor varies from month to month. The only solution I can think of, however, is to drastically decrease the alliance score points when the total campaign population depletes. The achievable alliance score points per hour should match the total population. So, when the total population reaches a minimum threshold, the score points will do the same. E.g. If the average score gain per hour during the day (with each alliance at 2+ bars) is at 120, at night (when neither of the alliances can fill a single bar) average score gain would be like 5 score points per hour. That way, it wouldn't matter anymore, if a group of 24+ flip the entire map, throne their emperor and steal all the scrolls at night without (much) resistance.

However, it would not solve the entire problem, as there would still arise issues when the campaign population starts to fill up: the average score gain would increase equally with the population, and the other two alliances would still need to capture their keeps and scrolls back - all of that while the campaign score counts in favor to the nightcapping alliance.

KillsAllElves

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

You speak of logical sense, so much so that many dont want to understand that!

MaxJrFTW

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

swifty3174 wrote: »

There is no “night-capping”, ESO is a global game. Just because it’s night in the US, doesn’t mean the rest of the world stops.

True, but how come there's only one faction doing all the capping overnight(us time), while the other factions have 5 players on at most.

Idc, i haven't been to Cyrodiil in months. Saying there's no night capping though, bs...

You may want to read what you quoted one more time.

What they said is it is always daytime somewhere in the world that is reasonable to expect MMORPG players to reside. So when it is nighttime for the grand ole USA those in AUS that are playing in Cyrodiil and turning the map are playing during their day time.

Another way to put is what OP calls night capping is normal day time for a great many in this global game of things. So they are correct.

Edit: it is also to be expected that you might find some guilds that are AUS/NZ and other similar times time zones just might play together which would explain why one faction benefits. Elementary,my dear Watson.

Again, why is only one faction doing it?

There's also the simple fact that most of them are americans, a few of them even stream. So...

master_vanargand

I agree with your opinion.
If the number of players in the alliance is large, large alliance should deduct points.
Or try not to get much points unless all the alliances are full.
Cyrodiil should stop the silly game dominated by PvDoor night group.

MojaveHeld

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

On the alleged nightcapping...ie off peak player imbalance:
Revamping the scoring system to reflect pop imbalances and exploits is one thing. Dismissing the efforts of half the world playing the game in their prime time by using the derogatory term 'nightcapping' simply arcs up players who play off peak US or off peak Eu. Language matters if you want allies. That's all I was really saying.

Plus it was an opportunity to show others how difficult it is to actually play the game at all in the eastern hemisphere atm. The fact we have gone from 220ms ping to 400 plus ms ping due to akamai and other changes in recent chapters matters more to most of us who play off peak due to location than any concerns US players may have about a zerg PvDooring off peak. And after 31 pages we have had exactly no response from ZoS. So forgive my somewhat salty response to you calling me a nightcapper because I play in my prime time and still manage to fight with 400ms ping.

Oceanic issues with ridiculous ping are real, and it's a travesty that ZOS hasn't acted on that. That being said, it has nothing to do with the exploitation in Cyrodiil during off-peak hours being correctly referred to as nightcapping. It is the NA server, the overwhelming majority of play in Cyro happens during NA hours, and that currently a campaign can be won by much smaller groups of players in off-peak hours is also an absolute travesty. I can understand not wanting score to be removed entirely during that time, as for legitimate players like you (as has been pointed out in the thread, many of the nightcappers are NA players who wake up during the middle of the night explicitly for the purpose of steamrolling) that would make it so that you have no way to contribute to your alliance during your play hours.

Greatly reducing the amount of score gained (ap gain would be the same, so your personal rewards would stay the same) during the server's night hours, however, would still allow you to contribute while much more accurately and fairly reflect the fact that the majority of play and action occurs at other hours. so it more accurately values your efforts, where currently they are incredibly disproportionate towards overall alliance scores. The fact that nightcapping is used as an exploit should be far more concerning to players like you who play during that time (as eliminating the exploitative atmosphere would greatly improve fighting in cyro during those times), rather than well-intentioned efforts like this thread to correct the issue.

MrGarlic

Vlad9425 wrote: »

<SNIP>

My suggestion is to pause or reduce how many points can be earned during certain hours in the Campaign. Thoughts?

EDIT: this is a thread to suggest ideas on changing how the scoring works and I'm not suggesting people should be punished for playing at certain times because obviously due to different time zones some people can only play during these times.

Punishment. That is exactly what you are suggesting.

Why should it benefit you? Why not reduce the points accrued during USA-peak times instead. Maybe that will encourage players to play outside USA-Peak-times, reducing PvP server lag and spreading balance to where it's needed?

See how it feels when you get discriminated against simply becasue of where you live.

dem0n1k

Nightcapping an issue for you? Stop sleeping & play more or gtfo.

Metafae

Honestly, if you can't hold the campaign at night, you don't have any right to complain.

You have people in your own faction that play at that time and they suck at defending the map. Deal with it.

Edit: I should add that I agree with the scoring being changed. I don't think low pop factions should get any bonus at all. The scoring should be the same flat rate 24/7. It's the only fair way to do it.