Worst pvp meta yet

Neoauspex

Everything should have a counter. Bleeds should scale based on target's armor so it's really effective on high armor targets and worthless against light. Shattering Blows should add penetration vs damage shields instead of just increased damage against them. Pets should be mortal and difficult to recast. There's really not much difference in the end result between a fight where there isn't enough damage for either player to win and a fight where there is enough damage but the NB can cloak away anytime he's about to lose. Unless somebody in the fight has access to something that counters cloak (these exist, magelight is broken though).

Wings was a counter, now it's just more mitigation making fights infinite. Shield Breaker was a counter. Soldier of Anguish was an interesting attempt at a counter. If you want to balance these things, give them punitive contingencies instead of deleting the counter aspect: Wings reflects but makes you take more damage from melee, Shield Breaker heals targets without a damage shield, Soldier of Anguish applies a useful amount of heal reduction to enemies and allies in area. Then these things are effective ways to win a fight but only if you use them correctly.

Right now the combat team seems focused on taking away anything that could make a fight one-sided instead of making them contingent on using them correctly.

Waffennacht

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Eh gotta disagree there @Minno I cannot run the same dodge roll or block type builds in no CP that I can in CP.

20% additional cost reduction on dodge roll + increased max Stam + more Stam Regen + more heavy attack return = way more dodge roll etc than ever possible in no CP

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Eh gotta disagree there @Minno I cannot run the same dodge roll or block type builds in no CP that I can in CP.

20% additional cost reduction on dodge roll + increased max Stam + more Stam Regen + more heavy attack return = way more dodge roll etc than ever possible in no CP

true there's that. But in CP you can't dodge/block for that long anyway due to the dodge roll cost increase mechanic/block costing 900-1300 stam every 0.5s (and the builds that do, give up more dmg than you think). In nCP my dodge cost is 3878, in CP its 3102.

is 776 cost per dodge roll providing a more balanced arena? Nope, its the hard drop in tri-stats; im at 31k mag in nCP but 37k so I can't cast as much unless i make different set changes (which promotes one dimensional builds stifling build diversity).

Insco851

Until Magsorc gets nerfed I don’t wanna hear jack *** about magblade “too much mitigation” cuz they still can’t kill said magsorc.

Pirate skelly on every build ever is the issue rn.

Ender1310

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

Xvorg

You know? Pirate Skelly strenght resides on:

1- The extra mitigation (of course)
2- The fact that you plan you build with minor defile in mind, so you cannot get extra minor defile, and Major defile just last 4 secs

So, when you have a covered debuff, it loses value. All those sets that apply minor defile (like fasalla's) or skills become pointless. And the debuff it gives is not as strong as the buff.

A way to balance it is to get rid of the minor debuff and instead make it a 10-15% less healing/shield on proc without the minor debuff, so minor defile and major defile can stack against the set.

thankyourat

CaliMade wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also y’all need to chill with overhyping magblades mitigation buffs. We have a weak ass dot heal, we need mitigation since they nerfed our ward and we don’t have a pet to give us line of sight and burst heals. Don’t forget what magblade has been the last couple patches and that’s at the bottom of the food chain.

Bow stacks-15%
Dark Cloak-8%
Shade-15%
Pirate skeleton-30%

Swallow soul X Dark cloak is more than enough healing for the sheer amount of raw mitigation nbs have.

I know this because I also play magnb and have friends who do so too.

Just because a class has been bad for a long time doesn’t mean they need to be broken. I want balance, mitigation that cant be countered shouldn’t stack this high.

They also hit really hard.

Was dueling a friend the other day,
mag Templar v Magblade, im the plar.
We start the fight he weaves on me twice with swallow soul light attack. “Damn Cali You squishy!”

Im like “what? how'd you figure? I got 27k spell resist 3k crit resist, 56 in Iron clad, 43 in Ele defender. Im not Squishy you just hit too hard.”

I proceeded to hit him with 900 crit jabs, Mind you my jab tooltip is like 1800,(4300 per?) , he didn’t have major evasion either.

They need to lower the mitigation of bow stacks and just flat out nerf the duration of pirate skeleton. that set is all kinds of over performing.In return they need to make their heals stronger so their survivability can actually be countered.

Mag blades and mag sorcs are really too much right now and need adjusting, mag dks are glass cannons, wardens are all of a sudden trash tier outside of rolling players in beetle zergs.

Stam dk and stam sorc is on life support. No, actually the plug was pulled awhile ago, we all know they get no support for their class skill lines.

Stamblade fights are nauseating. Now not only are they dodging every thing they also have a bunch of passive mitigation, (minor maim+bow stacks essentially means ~30% mitigation)

Necro toxic af with bash builds or Major Vulnerability, pick your poison.

I think both specs of templar are in an Incredible spot right now.

but yeah current state of the game is crap.

I disagree Stam dk can make a case for being the second best class right now. I think it’s third behind magsorc and stamblade. The problem with magblade is all the mitigation can’t save you if your health drops low enough. Swallow soul combined with dark cloak won’t even match the healing of a Stam dk with only vigor active. then you add in the defenses of heavy armor and block with sword and board they are actually tankier than magblade with twice the healing. Stam dk is actually almost op even though I fully agree that the class is stale do to not having any real offensive class abilities.

You can stack mitigation through the roof, if you don’t have the healing to take advantage of it you will just get withered down without the ability to recover. Dark cloak and swallow soul will be right under 2k worth of hots With no access to a burst heal. Overall the class has 23% damage mitigation from dark cloak and merciless. I don’t see this as broken. It goes down to 15% if you actually use the invisibility morph of cloak

thankyourat

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

It’s not 1,2,3 button execute though because you had to actively try to stay alive because the game didn’t keep you alive passively back then. Against good groups you still had to coordinate ultimates and play as a team. The only difference if you made a mistake or forgot to use a defensive ability you died. You had to actively try to get better back then or a good player would beat you pretty quickly. Today however you can be an average player and compete with a good player or at least survive because of how tanky you can be while still having ok damage

Waffennacht

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Eh gotta disagree there @Minno I cannot run the same dodge roll or block type builds in no CP that I can in CP.

20% additional cost reduction on dodge roll + increased max Stam + more Stam Regen + more heavy attack return = way more dodge roll etc than ever possible in no CP

true there's that. But in CP you can't dodge/block for that long anyway due to the dodge roll cost increase mechanic/block costing 900-1300 stam every 0.5s (and the builds that do, give up more dmg than you think). In nCP my dodge cost is 3878, in CP its 3102.

is 776 cost per dodge roll providing a more balanced arena? Nope, its the hard drop in tri-stats; im at 31k mag in nCP but 37k so I can't cast as much unless i make different set changes (which promotes one dimensional builds stifling build diversity).

Just real quick about that 776 Stam cost; so that additional 776 on 1st 1100 2nd and 1750 on third, after 3 dodge rolls that seemingly insignificant 776 equals the equivalent of an entire new roll in CP

That equates (based on my old roll dodging) to 1/3rd less as many Rolls; so 2 GCDs worth of damage; typically you can equate that in BGs to an additional 12k damage mitigation.

That's enormous when looking at a specific fight

Edit: the drop in stats - like you said - is huge (bigger even) but couple that with the additional costs; the mitigation totality is worlds apart in CP vs no CP

- focusing specifically on dodge as I think it is the mechanic that gains the most from CP - not too familiar with block costs anymore

Neoauspex

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Insco851

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

Ult dumps in group play has always been a thing especially if you have dedicated support builds in the group. Unless you have someone that can pressure those tanky af support builds to get them off their game.

I see these types plenty still. You see zerglings fighting DD’s while you have a couple supports spamming heals behind them and none of these kids are aware enough to pressure the supports so the glass cannon builds are out there just shredding these clueless players.

Iskiab

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

Or when you have them in a group and they are just dropping ults out of sync and giving everyone CC immunity. Ayyye would you mind saving that so we can kill someone plz...

My favorite is open area colossus drops currently. Like what tf were you thinking...

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Eh gotta disagree there @Minno I cannot run the same dodge roll or block type builds in no CP that I can in CP.

20% additional cost reduction on dodge roll + increased max Stam + more Stam Regen + more heavy attack return = way more dodge roll etc than ever possible in no CP

true there's that. But in CP you can't dodge/block for that long anyway due to the dodge roll cost increase mechanic/block costing 900-1300 stam every 0.5s (and the builds that do, give up more dmg than you think). In nCP my dodge cost is 3878, in CP its 3102.

is 776 cost per dodge roll providing a more balanced arena? Nope, its the hard drop in tri-stats; im at 31k mag in nCP but 37k so I can't cast as much unless i make different set changes (which promotes one dimensional builds stifling build diversity).

Just real quick about that 776 Stam cost; so that additional 776 on 1st 1100 2nd and 1750 on third, after 3 dodge rolls that seemingly insignificant 776 equals the equivalent of an entire new roll in CP

That equates (based on my old roll dodging) to 1/3rd less as many Rolls; so 2 GCDs worth of damage; typically you can equate that in BGs to an additional 12k damage mitigation.

That's enormous when looking at a specific fight

Edit: the drop in stats - like you said - is huge (bigger even) but couple that with the additional costs; the mitigation totality is worlds apart in CP vs no CP

- focusing specifically on dodge as I think it is the mechanic that gains the most from CP - not too familiar with block costs anymore

that cost is also as a mag build. I am not going to dodge roll forever in either modes lol.

Heres the cost when 5pc medium:
- CP - 2456
- nCP - 3070
- CP 5pcL - 3102.
- nCP 5pcL - 3878

Medium doesn't get that much saved but it heavily punishes mag builds. Hence why nCP isn't as competitive as one might think and its one sided further with those same builds having access to things like bleeds, stam recovery, higher WD stacking, etc.

Alucardo

Itemization needs an overhaul. ESO suffers from some pretty major problems:

- Damage is boosted by max stats, major sorcery/brutality, berserk, weapon/spell damage on gear, CP if applicable
- Healing is boosted by max stats, major sorcery/brutality, weapon/spell damage on gear, healing done (gear), vitality and mending buffs, CP if applicable

That's a damn lot, and there's probably more that I have forgotten. You add all of that together and you can create some insanely ridiculous builds. But if you look at itemization in well designed games, let's take WoW for example: what they do is have Mastery increase your damage, Versatility bolsters your defenses, Haste increases your attack speed, cast times and energy regeneration. Obviously Hate and Mastery are really strong, but it's uncommon to find them on the same piece of gear. Essentially you give up one for the other. ESO is like "HAVE EVERYTHING". You max out your damage and stats, which is easy to do, and you've got stupid amounts of healing and damage.
So when you add all of the available damage mitigation buffs on top of your strong healing, you get these unkillable machines of death. If self healing wasn't getting buffed from so many different sources then it wouldn't be a problem.

tl;dr; Healing and Damage need to come from different sources. Maxing out your resource pool and spell/weapon damage in order to buff both your damage and healing is completely stupid.
Mitigation was never the issue. The fact you can heal more than jesus is.

Neoauspex

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Uhh..? So you’re saying CP and nonCP doesn’t have much difference? There’s a massive difference it isnt all about mitigation.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

CaliMade wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also y’all need to chill with overhyping magblades mitigation buffs. We have a weak ass dot heal, we need mitigation since they nerfed our ward and we don’t have a pet to give us line of sight and burst heals. Don’t forget what magblade has been the last couple patches and that’s at the bottom of the food chain.

Bow stacks-15%
Dark Cloak-8%
Shade-15%
Pirate skeleton-30%

Swallow soul X Dark cloak is more than enough healing for the sheer amount of raw mitigation nbs have.

I know this because I also play magnb and have friends who do so too.

Just because a class has been bad for a long time doesn’t mean they need to be broken. I want balance, mitigation that cant be countered shouldn’t stack this high.

They also hit really hard.

Was dueling a friend the other day,
mag Templar v Magblade, im the plar.
We start the fight he weaves on me twice with swallow soul light attack. “Damn Cali You squishy!”

Im like “what? how'd you figure? I got 27k spell resist 3k crit resist, 56 in Iron clad, 43 in Ele defender. Im not Squishy you just hit too hard.”

I proceeded to hit him with 900 crit jabs, Mind you my jab tooltip is like 1800,(4300 per?) , he didn’t have major evasion either.

They need to lower the mitigation of bow stacks and just flat out nerf the duration of pirate skeleton. that set is all kinds of over performing.In return they need to make their heals stronger so their survivability can actually be countered.

Mag blades and mag sorcs are really too much right now and need adjusting, mag dks are glass cannons, wardens are all of a sudden trash tier outside of rolling players in beetle zergs.

Stam dk and stam sorc is on life support. No, actually the plug was pulled awhile ago, we all know they get no support for their class skill lines.

Stamblade fights are nauseating. Now not only are they dodging every thing they also have a bunch of passive mitigation, (minor maim+bow stacks essentially means ~30% mitigation)

Necro toxic af with bash builds or Major Vulnerability, pick your poison.

I think both specs of templar are in an Incredible spot right now.

but yeah current state of the game is crap.

You obviously didn’t play magblade the last two patches prior. Yes, they’re in a pretty good spot, as good as it’s been in some time. But don’t try to talk to me about magblade if you haven’t rolled with the class through cloak purge nerf, siphoning strikes nerf, .1sec bow cast time, swallow soul losing vitality, etc. you’re looking at it from a flavor of the month point of view and it shows.

Also, you showed your ignorance in your argument, these mitigation’s dont stack, they’re multiplicative. Nightblades sacrificed 8% damage for 15% mitigation which is exactly what we needed. The reason magblade was so *** recently comes down to the ward nerf. This has been supplemented with mitigation. Take that away we’re back to bottom feeders like before.

Minno

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Uhh..? So you’re saying CP and nonCP doesn’t have much difference? There’s a massive difference it isnt all about mitigation.

Yea I said that in other posts. But the OP referred to mitigation; and I am saying its not mitigation that is the meta, its the one-sided nature of certain sets/builds because of the stat drop in nCP from the loss of the 20% buff.

Both modes aren't superior to the other, they both suck but one doesnt punish mag builds as much as the other lol.

Urvoth

I don’t play cp cyrodiil so maybe the meta is a bit different there, but non cp BGs are currently in the best situation there’s been for awhile. There’s not as much snare cancer, people are fast but it’s not over the top, and there is a good balance of classes played, with different people being able to do well on different classes.

pieratsos

#BringBackSoftcaps

Iskiab

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

Rampeal

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

The main problem with NB is their cloak. It gives them a free reset button at ANY time. No game with a competitive mode allows this. Period. Because they know players will abuse it as the ESO players have. Cloak needs a diminishing effect or a CD. Being able to spam it till the dots burn off and run away. Heal up. And come back with full health a resources is not a defensive feature like many claim. It is a reset button that no class, but NB get. There is a reason majority of Eso players run NB and this is a major part.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Rampeal wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

The main problem with NB is their cloak. It gives them a free reset button at ANY time. No game with a competitive mode allows this. Period. Because they know players will abuse it as the ESO players have. Cloak needs a diminishing effect or a CD. Being able to spam it till the dots burn off and run away. Heal up. And come back with full health a resources is not a defensive feature like many claim. It is a reset button that no class, but NB get. There is a reason majority of Eso players run NB and this is a major part.

Rogue in WoW? Lol this is an extremely weak argument as there’s tons of counter play to one nightblade ability. Aoes, camo Hunter, inner light, Mark target, detect pots? Not to mention majority of good nightblades are running dark cloak anyways. This reads like a l2p issue tbh.

Insco851

Rampeal wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

The main problem with NB is their cloak. It gives them a free reset button at ANY time. No game with a competitive mode allows this. Period. Because they know players will abuse it as the ESO players have. Cloak needs a diminishing effect or a CD. Being able to spam it till the dots burn off and run away. Heal up. And come back with full health a resources is not a defensive feature like many claim. It is a reset button that no class, but NB get. There is a reason majority of Eso players run NB and this is a major part.

Lemme let you in on a little known secret from players who kill those NBs.... detect pots. Verse all but the best ones who don’t even really need cloak- it’s like an insta Win button.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also yes, I’ve been saying this since BG release. NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balance pvp platform there is. Good players will excel in both, but CP training wheels being taken off in BGs really shows players true colors. Actually having to manage resources and not just button smash, picking when to fight and your positioning. There’s just so much more thought involved with NonCP. It’s great.

CP and nCP are essentially the same mode, from a dmg mitigation perspective. It might show something like 70-80% total mitigation in CP versus 50-60% in nCP, but the actual number is about 1k difference.

Only difference is the CP and the 20% resources it gives. But then again it reduces the sets needed to like a handful since those sets give you back stats you saw in CP (though at risk of dropping another).

Uhh..? So you’re saying CP and nonCP doesn’t have much difference? There’s a massive difference it isnt all about mitigation.

Yea I said that in other posts. But the OP referred to mitigation; and I am saying its not mitigation that is the meta, its the one-sided nature of certain sets/builds because of the stat drop in nCP from the loss of the 20% buff.

Both modes aren't superior to the other, they both suck but one doesnt punish mag builds as much as the other lol.

I 100% disagree. NonCP is so much more balanced. I can’t think of a single class that I would face vs almost any of my toons that is at a sheer competitive advantage solely because of their class / build in nonCP. The only thing meta that’s prevalent in nonCP is probably protective jewelry. Other than that you can build for high damage but sacrifice some defense, you can build heavy sustain and try to outlast fights and burn your opponents resource pools or go heavily defensive / support which is still manageable in a nonCP environment as you don’t find the infinite sustain builds that plague CP. thanks

darkblue5

Solid group play has always been rewarded even when solo players could reasonably burst each other and high MMR BGs didn't completely resemble the CP BG debacle. Skillful group play doesn't need to be able to negate the tight technical play of solo opponents 100% of the time to be well rewarded.

There was skillful group play when two well built characters dueling could actually kill each other before the 30 minute mark.

Insco851

darkblue5 wrote: »

Solid group play has always been rewarded even when solo players could reasonably burst each other and high MMR BGs didn't completely resemble the CP BG debacle. Skillful group play doesn't need to be able to negate the tight technical play of solo opponents 100% of the time to be well rewarded.

There was skillful group play when two well built characters dueling could actually kill each other before the 30 minute mark.

Stall play. It’s unfun.

Iskiab

Rampeal wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

The main problem with NB is their cloak. It gives them a free reset button at ANY time. No game with a competitive mode allows this. Period. Because they know players will abuse it as the ESO players have. Cloak needs a diminishing effect or a CD. Being able to spam it till the dots burn off and run away. Heal up. And come back with full health a resources is not a defensive feature like many claim. It is a reset button that no class, but NB get. There is a reason majority of Eso players run NB and this is a major part.

If can be yea, it’s either really OP and I don’t die in an entire BG or people use the counters and cloak can become almost a negative. I’ll keep trying to cloak and people can hit me anyways.

Try silver leash, works great. Another thing I see a lot are people who time the leash with Warden bugs or fossilize.

If someone wants to they can make a NB’s life hell. I see lots of people do this and it’s effective. NBs draw a lot of hate, so lots of players get a kick out of using the counters. Heck even I do as a healer, I’ll spam elemental ring to make sure one can’t get away.

Rampeal

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I miss the days where everyone was burstable and there was counters to pretty much everything.

I could 3 hit people sure but they could just as easy 3 hit me. Games just gone pure casual and there is 0 incentive for people to get better.

So to me you sound like a casual. Now you have to time ultimates play as group and coordinate. Certaintly sounds harder than 1 2 3 buttons execute. So sorry your sounding like a casual. My opinion.

He sounds like a solo player. But there should still be counters to everything even if you're fighting zerg v zerg.

Definitely. You can always spot solo players because they talk about skill all the time while complaining the most about mechanics and cooperation. They’re oblivious to cooperation group play mechanics.

The argument’s always the same:
- I’m skilled
- I lost
- Game must be broken

Haha, it's true. Conversely, you can always tell the zerg players in a 1v1. They're the plus-sign! <Badump bump>

Probably true. If you’re 1vX or solo you have to be a bit of everything to do well. If you’re spec’d for group play you’ll use abilities specifically because it benefits more then yourself.

It even translates into BGs. Whenever I’ve seen groups of 4 sorcs or NBs in a BG they get wrecked, but there are complaints stemming from how they perform solo.

The main problem with NB is their cloak. It gives them a free reset button at ANY time. No game with a competitive mode allows this. Period. Because they know players will abuse it as the ESO players have. Cloak needs a diminishing effect or a CD. Being able to spam it till the dots burn off and run away. Heal up. And come back with full health a resources is not a defensive feature like many claim. It is a reset button that no class, but NB get. There is a reason majority of Eso players run NB and this is a major part.

Rogue in WoW? Lol this is an extremely weak argument as there’s tons of counter play to one nightblade ability. Aoes, camo Hunter, inner light, Mark target, detect pots? Not to mention majority of good nightblades are running dark cloak anyways. This reads like a l2p issue tbh.

Having to sacrifice a ability slot or a potion to counter one class gameplay is not a weak argument. If it is not such a big deal why not have the diminishing returns? Since all the "Good" nightblades are running dark cloak anyways. Not just Wow many MMO and games do this, hell many single player games too, because they know it is game breaking. Stealth attack stealth attack spam is "Not" a legitimate play style.

And no it is not a L2P issue since I run so much crit and armor resist I just sit there and lol as they spam me for 2k. While I Defile peck damage them down, that is until they cloak and run away like chickens.