POLL: Performance fix or new content(vote and help show zos)

Downey

And I want to say that fixing the game does NOT mean more "balancing"...stop fixing *** that's not broken!

Kilnerdyne

This is what happens when the most talented employees are recruited and then pushed into roles churning out DLCs and Chapters whilst the other 10% of the company is left to try to patch up the game as best as they can along the way.

It's pretty sickening to watch a game that could have been

• a truely awe-inspiring monument to MMO game design
• an Elder Scrolls title that would have stood alongside Oblivion and Skyrim as equals
• a community 3 or 4 times larger than the current population from the launch of the game

wasted by poor decision-making, a total lack of commitment and a total lack of testing on a basic level.

It's most disgraceful of all how you've treated the poor members on the EU server, the performance has been a joke for years now and the best you can do is a forum post every 18 months on how you're 'looking into it'. Disgusting.

Daviiid_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Once again, content and bug / performance fixes are TWO SEPERATE DAMN THINGS!
Polls like this are 100% pure garbage.

So you are telling me that those who create content are not capable of bug fixes. Of having their department stop for one patch on creating content and fixing the stuff they made and the bugs in their content.

They might be capable but any studio the size of ZOS will have different teams for the two tasks.
There is absolutely no reason why ZOS can't be doing both at the same time.

If you don't understand that part you clearly have never worked in a larger gaming studio ...

If you've worked in a larger gaming studio you'd know that in a game production pipeline the people doing the back-end work and optimizing the engine itself will be in large part moved to other projects at this point. Like the next mmo for example, since they're mostly not needed in full force fixing stuff when the rest of the updates will be level content.

But I do agree that they should be capable of doing both, technically, but it's just how they have chosen to prioritize their resources across their projects. Now though we're in a situation where this game needs aid, so hopefully they can bring people back to it to let it continue to grow.

However, a lot of issues seem mostly apparent on EU. Perhaps migrating to another provider in the EU with better infrastructure is an option. Then again... money. Personally I'd like to see them do both, get better servers/provider, and optimize the game further for everyone to allow growth. Currently they are cashing in on short term profits while a solid fix to the servers and more optimization in general can create a bigger and more sustainable playerbase for who knows how many years to come.

Sylvermynx

Downey wrote: »

And I want to say that fixing the game does NOT mean more "balancing"...stop fixing *** that's not broken!

Well.... when the combat lead only does pvp.... what do you expect? I suppose, if you only pvp, you're probably happy. The rest of us (the huge percentage who only or mostly only pve) aren't happy at all.... "Broken" is in the eye of the beholder - in this case, the combat lead.

danthemann5

If they don't fix performance, there won't be any need for new content.

Firstmep

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Downey wrote: »

And I want to say that fixing the game does NOT mean more "balancing"...stop fixing *** that's not broken!

Well.... when the combat lead only does pvp.... what do you expect? I suppose, if you only pvp, you're probably happy. The rest of us (the huge percentage who only or mostly only pve) aren't happy at all.... "Broken" is in the eye of the beholder - in this case, the combat lead.

Pvp balance whilst somewhat decent between classes, is definetly not in a good place.
For whatever reason zos decided to make pretty much everyone even tankier this patch.

Imryll

I refuse to choose.

SirAndy

Daviiid_ESO wrote: »

That's a bit of a weird statement, since if you've worked in a larger gaming studio you'd know that in a game production pipeline the people doing the back-end work and optimizing the engine itself will be in large part moved to other projects at this point. Like the next mmo for example, since they're mostly not needed in full force fixing stuff when the rest of the updates will be level content.

You're assuming that the people who created the engine and backend have to be the same as the ones who can fix it. I have worked for a large gaming studio in the past and yes, the core engine and backend team(s) were moved to new projects quite frequently but we always ensured we had a capable team to support those architectures and fix bugs in conjunction with a good QA team.

Content creation on the other hand was done by a different team. And while they (obviously) were able to fix some immediate bugs related to the content they created, anything that was added to the long term backlog of bugs was on the plate of the support team mentioned above.

ZOS might be operating differently, i don't know any details about their internal structure, but i would be surprised if their content team was doubling as the bug fixing team.

myskyrim26

PC EU. No performance problems for me, except on the 1st day of events when a lot of people gather at one place like Breda's tent.

Daviiid_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

Daviiid_ESO wrote: »

That's a bit of a weird statement, since if you've worked in a larger gaming studio you'd know that in a game production pipeline the people doing the back-end work and optimizing the engine itself will be in large part moved to other projects at this point. Like the next mmo for example, since they're mostly not needed in full force fixing stuff when the rest of the updates will be level content.

You're assuming that the people who created the engine and backend have to be the same as the ones who can fix it. I have worked for a large gaming studio in the past and yes, the core engine and backend team(s) were moved to new projects quite frequently but we always ensured we had a capable team to support those architectures and fix bugs in conjunction with a good QA team.

Content creation on the other hand was done by a different team. And while they (obviously) were able to fix some immediate bugs related to the content they created, anything that was added to the long term backlog of bugs was on the plate of the support team mentioned above.

ZOS might be operating differently, i don't know any details about their internal structure, but i would be surprised if their content team was doubling as the bug fixing team.

Yes? So we are on the same page then, if I didn't misunderstand your message?

There are of course others who can start digging into fixes in the games current state, but 5 years after release and god knows how much spaghetti code is in there, the people who will know how to fix it the fastest and best will be the people who did it in the first place. Perhaps they currently don't have a capable team to support the current architecture.

I'm not saying the content creators should be the ones fixing the backend issues, just to be clear that that's my whole point.

paulychan

If you really want to push to get this game running smoothly, convince as many people as possible to post the poor gameplay on YouTube and share those vids on as many social platforms as possible.

RebornV3x

After 5 years its time to "clean house" they need to dedicate Q1 of 2020 for bug fixes and quality of life improvements they need to take the time to polish and make sure the game has a sound foundation going forward. Plus this could give other teams plenty of time to create and test new content they have had a content update every quarter for 2 years now and maybe its time to slow down a bit

so they lose money in the short term from not having a Q1 DLC but if ZOS is open and honest about a bug fix and optimization patch then I'm pretty most of us would be fine with it and those that have done everything already will surely come back when new content comes out. and lastly theres so much content that maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we didn't have a DLC for one quarter. They could even call it ESO remastered if they really wanna be like that.

idk

stpdmonkey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think most that understand how things work understand that the people who design new content are not the same people who work to find fixes for bugs.

So that begs the question as I expect OP is knowledgeable. Is OP suggesting Zos fire their content creators then once these bugs are fixed they find some reasonably competent content creators? I ask because that is literally what OP and the poll are asking.

Those who create content are able to fix the content they have created. I'm not asking to fire anyone. Just maybe change focus. I perfectly understand that this poll or anything asked will not stop content creation. But I am hoping that maybe just maybe if enough people show that they would rather have the game fixed that they will put focus into that instead of basically ignoring it. You constantly see things get changed for the sake of pvp and class or skill changes. Why they cant put some more focus into fixing the game is beyond me. There are issues that have plagued the game since the beginning and have not been fixed. That is the type of thing I am hoping to see changed. Put some focus into fixing things not just adding more content to create more issues and not fix them.

Pretty sure you did not read my entire post as I pointed out one role that is a major position that does not have to know how to code and is not hired to write code.

Another area of work required for creating content that in no way needs to know how to write code for how the game actually operates are the artists that create the scenery and silly things like buildings, furniture and the all the little NPC people we see running around Tamriel.

So to propose ceasing creating content and just work on fixes you are very literally suggesting Zos either pay these people to do nothing or to lay that group of created talent off. That is why such ideas make no sense. You falsely assume in your statement above that everyone involved in creating content is able to fix issues that crop up.

Further, ESO has a very clear history of what happens when they fail to deliver new content over an extended period of time. Zos did not add meaningful content to the game for over a year because they were focused on getting the console versions ready for release. What happened is we quit. A great many of us left the game and many never returned because we found other things to do. Not long ago I purged 50 people from my friends list giving up on their returning and have over 100 players in the guild I used to lead that have not logged in for 4 years now. All because of that choice Zos made.

While Zos needs to focus more on fixing the issues, I expect they are smart enough to not repeat that huge mistake they made 4 years ago and cease delivering content. Just a horrific idea.

That is not even getting into the clearly biased design of the poll and the fact Zos knows it is entertainment value even if it was well written.

Red_Feather

I've only been playing a year but from what I understand performance will never be fixed. It will never happen.

Quinnlyn

There are multiple zones that have had performance issues since their launch (usually memory leaks as the FPS drops steadily the longer you remain in them). Some of these are DLC zones and some are zones that came with the base game, such as Glenumbra (stand in Daggerfall for 15 minutes and watch your FPS go from 90+ down to 15-20fps).

Those have been in the game since launch in 2014. They're never getting fixed. It's just not within the companies financial interests. It's never happening.

I had a hard time completing Murkmire because quite often the FPS would dip down into single-digits which required relogging or rezoning.

brandonv516

Performance is terrible right now - Xbox NA but probably every other platform as well.

Animations are falling behind, players teleporting all over, skills not firing at all, etc.

Oh and earlier I was leveling my Necromancer and got kicked back to the character selection screen.

Then I got to repeat everything I did in the last 20 minutes because the server didn't seem to save my progress! C'mon...that's never happened before. It's getting worse.

SeliniaHlaalu

Fix the performance, although I do not believe they know how or they are not capable of fixing it.

jcm2606

idk wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think most that understand how things work understand that the people who design new content are not the same people who work to find fixes for bugs.

So that begs the question as I expect OP is knowledgeable. Is OP suggesting Zos fire their content creators then once these bugs are fixed they find some reasonably competent content creators? I ask because that is literally what OP and the poll are asking.

Those who create content are able to fix the content they have created. I'm not asking to fire anyone. Just maybe change focus. I perfectly understand that this poll or anything asked will not stop content creation. But I am hoping that maybe just maybe if enough people show that they would rather have the game fixed that they will put focus into that instead of basically ignoring it. You constantly see things get changed for the sake of pvp and class or skill changes. Why they cant put some more focus into fixing the game is beyond me. There are issues that have plagued the game since the beginning and have not been fixed. That is the type of thing I am hoping to see changed. Put some focus into fixing things not just adding more content to create more issues and not fix them.

Pretty sure you did not read my entire post as I pointed out one role that is a major position that does not have to know how to code and is not hired to write code.

Another area of work required for creating content that in no way needs to know how to write code for how the game actually operates are the artists that create the scenery and silly things like buildings, furniture and the all the little NPC people we see running around Tamriel.

So to propose ceasing creating content and just work on fixes you are very literally suggesting Zos either pay these people to do nothing or to lay that group of created talent off. That is why such ideas make no sense. You falsely assume in your statement above that everyone involved in creating content is able to fix issues that crop up.

Further, ESO has a very clear history of what happens when they fail to deliver new content over an extended period of time. Zos did not add meaningful content to the game for over a year because they were focused on getting the console versions ready for release. What happened is we quit. A great many of us left the game and many never returned because we found other things to do. Not long ago I purged 50 people from my friends list giving up on their returning and have over 100 players in the guild I used to lead that have not logged in for 4 years now. All because of that choice Zos made.

While Zos needs to focus more on fixing the issues, I expect they are smart enough to not repeat that huge mistake they made 4 years ago and cease delivering content. Just a horrific idea.

That is not even getting into the clearly biased design of the poll and the fact Zos knows it is entertainment value even if it was well written.

Have those people work on polishing existing assets, go back through old zones and touch up things to bring them up to par with newer zones. Have the patch be fully dedicated to just polishing the game, both in code and in assets.

vesselwiththepestle

They could hire new staff to fix bugs and/or increase duration of PTS cycle to reduce the amount of new bugs introduced to the game each update.

russelmmendoza

How long do you think it would take to fix the server if they were to take it offline to actually fix the server?
1 week?
1 month?
1 year?

idk

jcm2606 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think most that understand how things work understand that the people who design new content are not the same people who work to find fixes for bugs.

So that begs the question as I expect OP is knowledgeable. Is OP suggesting Zos fire their content creators then once these bugs are fixed they find some reasonably competent content creators? I ask because that is literally what OP and the poll are asking.

Those who create content are able to fix the content they have created. I'm not asking to fire anyone. Just maybe change focus. I perfectly understand that this poll or anything asked will not stop content creation. But I am hoping that maybe just maybe if enough people show that they would rather have the game fixed that they will put focus into that instead of basically ignoring it. You constantly see things get changed for the sake of pvp and class or skill changes. Why they cant put some more focus into fixing the game is beyond me. There are issues that have plagued the game since the beginning and have not been fixed. That is the type of thing I am hoping to see changed. Put some focus into fixing things not just adding more content to create more issues and not fix them.

Pretty sure you did not read my entire post as I pointed out one role that is a major position that does not have to know how to code and is not hired to write code.

Another area of work required for creating content that in no way needs to know how to write code for how the game actually operates are the artists that create the scenery and silly things like buildings, furniture and the all the little NPC people we see running around Tamriel.

So to propose ceasing creating content and just work on fixes you are very literally suggesting Zos either pay these people to do nothing or to lay that group of created talent off. That is why such ideas make no sense. You falsely assume in your statement above that everyone involved in creating content is able to fix issues that crop up.

Further, ESO has a very clear history of what happens when they fail to deliver new content over an extended period of time. Zos did not add meaningful content to the game for over a year because they were focused on getting the console versions ready for release. What happened is we quit. A great many of us left the game and many never returned because we found other things to do. Not long ago I purged 50 people from my friends list giving up on their returning and have over 100 players in the guild I used to lead that have not logged in for 4 years now. All because of that choice Zos made.

While Zos needs to focus more on fixing the issues, I expect they are smart enough to not repeat that huge mistake they made 4 years ago and cease delivering content. Just a horrific idea.

That is not even getting into the clearly biased design of the poll and the fact Zos knows it is entertainment value even if it was well written.

Have those people work on polishing existing assets, go back through old zones and touch up things to bring them up to par with newer zones. Have the patch be fully dedicated to just polishing the game, both in code and in assets.

Yea, and the story writer has nothing to do because it would be a bad idea for Zos to have the story writers change aspects of the story.

You also missed the more important part that a great many people left the game last time Zos chose to not add more content. I am all for Zos improving how the game runs but I am pretty sure they are not dumb enough to make the same major mistake twice and have an exodus of players because they stopped adding new content. That is the biggest reason games fail, because of lack of good content being added at a regular pace.

Lord_Eomer

Non-sense pool, will your give your salary to ZOS team for running payroll and other expenses?

New DLC are meant to generate revenue and could not stop.

Issues need to address parallel overtime or ESO may die due to non-generating revenue.

If you want to support ESO then get Subscription, game is sold now a days almost free!

I doubt PC currently have so many issues and most of players never understand that in IT Services may get affected and takes sometime to address open issues.

Not every issue is treated as critical or high priority, no one can make any game perfect!

twev

idk wrote: »

I think most that understand how things work understand that the people who design new content are not the same people who work to find fixes for bugs.

So that begs the question as I expect OP is knowledgeable. Is OP suggesting Zos fire their content creators then once these bugs are fixed they find some reasonably competent content creators? I ask because that is literally what OP and the poll are asking.

One of the reasons we get so many bugs and busted crap is because they hurry the schedule.

Why fire the guys who are writing the code?
Just give them more time to write the stuff correctly the first time, and meanwhile the augmented bugteam guys (remember? we want them to add bugteam guys) can catch up killing the infestation.

It's really not so hard to understand

tietokonna

I would personally be more than happy to not have new content for even a year if it meant that also the server (PC EU) performance, also for PvP, was getting fixed. So I totally support the idea of redirecting resources towards fixing what is already there. Because performance wise it's in a bit of a...state (has been, for months, on PC EU.)

Dosuul

Well the guys that create assets, make the UI, build the world or create quests can't help with the most performance problems, but it would be great if we would get more feedback quicker and the feeling problems have a priority.

idk

twev wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think most that understand how things work understand that the people who design new content are not the same people who work to find fixes for bugs.

So that begs the question as I expect OP is knowledgeable. Is OP suggesting Zos fire their content creators then once these bugs are fixed they find some reasonably competent content creators? I ask because that is literally what OP and the poll are asking.

One of the reasons we get so many bugs and busted crap is because they hurry the schedule.

Why fire the guys who are writing the code?
Just give them more time to write the stuff correctly the first time, and meanwhile the augmented bugteam guys (remember? we want them to add bugteam guys) can catch up killing the infestation.

It's really not so hard to understand

Again, that is an assumption. I have seen in what was a major MMORPG at the time do one expansion a year and still have bugs. One assumption you make is somehow Zos will find all the bugs if they just take longer. The other assumption, which is related to the first, is that you seem to assume Zos takes only 3 months on an expansion. They are likely already working on the next years chapter.

Not to forget, there are no MMORPGs without bugs. There are no MMORPGs that have fixed every bug. Some bugs they fix like the current bug delaying chat and causing issues with friends lists and more. Some bugs will never get fixed because they are deemed to not have a big enough impact or it will take to much effort for the impact those bugs do have. That is a fact of any MMORPG.

Further, I have not suggested we should fire any of the creative talent. I am not sure why you are asking that question in reply to my post. That question seems a little off but I am sure you have a perfectly good reason for that.

Bethgael

Quinnlyn wrote: »

[snip] Some of these are DLC zones and some are zones that came with the base game, such as Glenumbra (stand in Daggerfall for 15 minutes and watch your FPS go from 90+ down to 15-20fps). [snip]

I wish I could do that. If I stand still for more than 5.6 seconds (average, I tested it), I get hard d/c'd.
Yes, my connection is stable. Yes part of the problem is the NBN. However, this connection issue (which has, admittedly, improved somewhat since Elsweyr launch; I actually managed to play for a whole 45 minutes at a time before the last maintenance. ), is not something I experience elsewhere. Er, pun unintended. In other MMO's, I mean.

rpa

If the publisher wants to get paid for providing service, quality should be worth paying for. I find hard to believe even complete idiot would continue buying new content if they can't play it.

Lord_Eomer

rpa wrote: »

If the publisher wants to get paid for providing service, quality should be worth paying for. I find hard to believe even complete idiot would continue buying new content if they can't play it.

Seems like either you are one of them who make excuses all the time, game is not in such state that it is not playable, at-least on PC its working fine except some issues appeared in PC EU after maintenance.

I used to play on PS4 and game was running best all the time but moved to PC.

Dojohoda

I don't think these two things are related in such a way that we can only have one.