Update on LFG System

Rake

What about Cyrodiil lag? Its worse than before when IC was part of it? How is this even possible?

StarMightyMaster

There working on a new LFG so just think people on the 10 anniversary when this come out the LFG system will work again for a month till it break again then we have wait till the 15 anniversary for the next re work

IwakuraLain42

Amusing. Do you really think that this will ever get fixed ? Let's face it, the game is in Content Maintenance mode, the only thing that is important is churning out new content (aka "Chapters") that can be sold to new players. Fixing bugs (even to core aspects of the game like matchmaking or the infamous in-combat bug) are not a priority, they even admitted so in a interview in January this year.

If you are interested in playing a game where such bugs are fixed instead of being ignored I would recommend start looking around, there are still other MMORPGs out there.

davidjaicob

Should add a 4 dd queue for dungeons, help speed up queue times for those who want to run without a healer and tank. And those who do should get less fake tanks and healers on standard queue

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO

As counterintuitive as it might seem, if the LFG system has issues when there are too many players available, it seems that the problem has more to do with it trying to find the 'perfect match' instead of just any match and/or bad programming.

Let's put some numbers to that above statement (no idea if that is the real problem, just a guess here):

If we call T the number of tanks in the queue, H the number of healers and D the number of DPS, if the server tries to match all of them up by considering each and every combination then it needs to perform T*H*D*(D-1) matching operations (MOP)

That sort of thing can become a serious issue for any type of hardware (cause it is bad programming or an ill stated problem)
Let's say your H/W can do 10000 MOP/S: With 5 Tanks, 10 Healers and 20 DPS in the queue you are done in about 1.9 seconds. With 50, 100 and 200 however, that perfect match making - and for just one group! - will take 19'900 seconds!

Clearly that sort of thing is bad no matter the H/W. Your problem can grow faster than your H/W could ever hope for.

Now here a suggestion how to improve that (even if above example is not the actual problem, something like that is clearly wrong with the current system), i.e. make that above problem into a linear one, e.g. by finding a good (enough) match but maybe not the perfect one.

(1) Ensure that folks grouping for a specific role actually meet the minimal prerequisite of that role: i.e. a Tank should have at least one taunt ability slotted, a Healer should have at least one ability slotted, which can heal others.

Sure for optimal set-ups, you really want more 'dedication', but in the end it really is up to the players "how they wanna play" and if they can complete the content by just light attacking, who cares. If they can't, they can be educated by the other group members (which will be good for everyone in the long run) or kicked.
On a side note: this also allows for pre-made 4"D" groups. Just have one slot a taunt, another a heal others and you are ready to queue (and can naturally slot something else once you are in the dungeon)

For the implementation, if someone queues for T or H without meeting the absolute minimum pre-requisite: decline the queuing and provide some information why


(2) Filter for T, H and D, which dungeons they are eligible for.
This is already done for the non-vet dungeons and low(er) level players, however at least one additional rules should apply, i.e. you need to have done the content on non-vet at least once, before even being (able to) queue for the vet content.
This is to ensure that folks on vet have at basic understanding of the content and know (some of) the basic mechanics already.
Even if you have done this hundred times on another character, unless your new character is a 1:1 copy, some things will be different in play-style and doing ONE non-vet run before going to vet should be a no-issue, really.

It might also be worthwhile to have some of the harder veteran dungeons only unlock after having achieved some general achievements, like Dungeon Blocker/Marauder/Healer to be achieved before being able to run vet for those dungeons given by Glirion the Redbeard, and Greater Dungeon Blocker/Marauder/Healer required for those dungeons given by Urgarlag to become available in veteran. Obviously non-vet is open for all veterans.
This mostly to ensure that folks which have fast-tracked an alt to level 50, can't just jump into any of the harder vet dungeons without having the basic skills leveled as well and/or the skill points spent or even skill lines unlocked.


(3) Availability of hard-mode: Only those who have completed the 'normal vet mode' at least once, should be eligible to activate hard mode in veteran content. (So if they got a great group, they can do it even the first time around for some of them, but not accidentally with a group that already struggled with fighting the trash mobs before, because someone just wanted to read 'that' book, whatever )

For some (if not all) dungeons, it might be even an idea to lock this behind further requirements, like having unlocked certain achievements for that specific dungeon (slayer, i.e. having done this a couple of times / lots of times already, or speed challenge for D's, i.e. having the DPS to do this quickly in non-hard mode, come to mind), as well as any who have done it already once in hard-mode (death challenge completed).


All of this would just improve the in-game experience of running the dungeons, once you are there, but not solve the issue of getting there. This needs a bit of behind the scenes implementation, i.e. think "Tetris" with blue and green squares (T & H) and red L's (D) forming a line on match. The idea is to match up quickly and make room for new blocks coming in, fast!
and that for each individual dungeon (aka simultaneous multi-screen Tetris)

• Implement dedicated 'consumer' queues for each dungeon instance (non-vet, vet).
• Implement dedicated 'provider' queues for T, H and Ds
• On enlist and with (1) checked, place T, H and Ds in their respective queue and set a timer (max waiting time, like 1 min)
• With (2) implemented place each T, H and D on enlist into whichever dungeon queue they are eligible for or opted for , i.e. those who queue for specific dungeons only end up in those queues.
• Now starting from the actual dailies and then from hardest to easiest dungeon loop through the list of dungeons
• Pick T, H and 2 Ds, remove their listing from all the other dungeons (easily implemented with pointer lists) and send the group into this dungeon. Prefer pre-made groups (instant sent) or semi-groups, pick a missing role from respective queue.
• If no group is available due to complete lack of eligible players go to the next dungeon
• If more than one T or one H or two Ds are available, try to pick a valid "good enough" combination, prefer those who have waited longest.

The goal of this good enough combination should be that only a minimum amount of unexperienced players, i.e. those who haven't done this content before, is placed into any group if possible.

For the good enough combination one could implement something like the following merit function

• 0 points if never done it before (inexperienced)
• 1 point if completed already at least once (casual)
• 1.5 points if completed veteran in hard mode at least once (experienced)
• when evaluating the merit function for each player add (waited/60 seconds) points, but limited to +1 if longer than 60s

A group is valid if merit function is > 3. If current pick is not valid, move to next available player in the queues (H, D, T, D, ... )

With let's say a normal setting 1 experienced, 2 casuals and 1 inexperienced, that group is good to go (3.5) right away, the same for 4 casuals (4). With 3 casuals and 1 inexperienced, they are good to go after 25 seconds of waiting (each)
If there are only inexperienced around, like e.g. with a new dungeon, they are still good to go after 1 minute of waiting (each)
If three inexperienced are waiting, they can only be grouped if at least one casual joins and they waited for 1 minute or longer. The wait can be shorter if an experienced joins / is available. It still can be very long if no players are available at all though.

All of this can be done fast and in linear time (loop through dungeon queue, with a loop through enqueued available players for each dungeon, which will be removed from queue if match is found)

This is just a suggestion, so certainly other different implementations are possible.

huntgod_ESO

As there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone who is DPS spec from Q'ing as Healer or Tank, can we just do away with that?

Make the match, 4 warm bodies, you can sort our the roles once grouped.

You could even leave the roles and make it a match priority, but if no match is available just grab 4 folks.

The can't Q is frustrating as I typically build my random grps from my guild, so I am Q'ing a 4 man premade and still getting the cannot Q message.

In fairness the only thing I use the grp finder for is doing a daily random for the XP bump, which I do a lot less since I passed 810cp, but I know a lot of people still working toward cap, or leveling characters (which I just did with 2 necros) so I do still use it occasionally.

It just seems that the locked roles is causing more grief than it's helping, at least if it was just 4 random guys, any role, you wouldn't be surprised when it turns out that healer doesn't heal or thee tank doesn't tank.

Gnozo

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

As there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone who is DPS spec from Q'ing as Healer or Tank, can we just do away with that?

Make the match, 4 warm bodies, you can sort our the roles once grouped.

You could even leave the roles and make it a match priority, but if no match is available just grab 4 folks.

The can't Q is frustrating as I typically build my random grps from my guild, so I am Q'ing a 4 man premade and still getting the cannot Q message.

In fairness the only thing I use the grp finder for is doing a daily random for the XP bump, which I do a lot less since I passed 810cp, but I know a lot of people still working toward cap, or leveling characters (which I just did with 2 necros) so I do still use it occasionally.

It just seems that the locked roles is causing more grief than it's helping, at least if it was just 4 random guys, any role, you wouldn't be surprised when it turns out that healer doesn't heal or thee tank doesn't tank.

Ye, thats definitly gonna help. Just put 4 randoms together.

To find out you are 4 dds and die to mechanics pretty easy. Or 4 Tanks so you cant kill stuff and dungeon Takes 2 decades. Or 4 healers not dying while also not killing.

Best.idea.ever......

huntgod_ESO

Gnozo wrote: »

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

As there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone who is DPS spec from Q'ing as Healer or Tank, can we just do away with that?

Make the match, 4 warm bodies, you can sort our the roles once grouped.

You could even leave the roles and make it a match priority, but if no match is available just grab 4 folks.

The can't Q is frustrating as I typically build my random grps from my guild, so I am Q'ing a 4 man premade and still getting the cannot Q message.

In fairness the only thing I use the grp finder for is doing a daily random for the XP bump, which I do a lot less since I passed 810cp, but I know a lot of people still working toward cap, or leveling characters (which I just did with 2 necros) so I do still use it occasionally.

It just seems that the locked roles is causing more grief than it's helping, at least if it was just 4 random guys, any role, you wouldn't be surprised when it turns out that healer doesn't heal or thee tank doesn't tank.

Ye, thats definitly gonna help. Just put 4 randoms together.

To find out you are 4 dds and die to mechanics pretty easy. Or 4 Tanks so you cant kill stuff and dungeon Takes 2 decades. Or 4 healers not dying while also not killing.

Best.idea.ever......

You supposition that 4 tanks would ever be Q'ed together is...well ludicrous.

I did specifically mention giving priority to building a proper 4 man, 2dd, 1t, 1h, but that if the Q didn't allow that, it instead just fills with whatever is available, which means the 4dd grps are going to be most common.

The current system is still likely 4dds, just 1 is q'd as T and one as H and you have no clue until the first fight. So what you are suggesting is the current situation, since there is nothing keeping folks from Q'ing as they will.

If it's just 4 folks, keeping the role notifier, you at least know you have 4dd, or 3dd+1h or whatever. If there is no advantage to Q'ing as a role you aren't folks are more likely to Q as their role and then you know what you have to work with.

Jamdarius

At this point I will believe whatever ZOS is saying only after the actual fixes happen and we see them live.
Not so long ago we were promised server upgrades, sure it may have happened, sure we get less random DC/lags etc.
HOWEVER: Last weekend it was plain horrible experience for me... lag spikes went from 59 ms to 6k+ ping in an instant...

This is not what was promised and I am sure that many other EU players experienced suchissues not just me.
Even if you say it is because we are so popular or we have 2 many players cause of new chapter release IDC AT ALL,
the server upgrades were supposed to make it so that even at peak hours we wouldn't get such random bs yet we still do.

karekiz

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

As there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone who is DPS spec from Q'ing as Healer or Tank, can we just do away with that?

It just seems that the locked roles is causing more grief than it's helping, at least if it was just 4 random guys, any role, you wouldn't be surprised when it turns out that healer doesn't heal or thee tank doesn't tank.

Random vet exists. You can keep your X4 DPS for random normals, but ehhh I like tanks in Vet DLC dungeons where mobs hit like a truck and kill DPS though block.

Easiest fix:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group - Something similar to this
https://ddowiki.com/page/Social_panel - Or even this

That way its in the players hands to "Sort" the mess rather than the system which is clearly limping around.

Random LFG bonus que would require a group a full group to use <Downside> however it would never hit a "Can't que" error since there would be no que at all.

FierceSam

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

As there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone who is DPS spec from Q'ing as Healer or Tank, can we just do away with that?

Make the match, 4 warm bodies, you can sort our the roles once grouped.

You could even leave the roles and make it a match priority, but if no match is available just grab 4 folks.

The can't Q is frustrating as I typically build my random grps from my guild, so I am Q'ing a 4 man premade and still getting the cannot Q message.

In fairness the only thing I use the grp finder for is doing a daily random for the XP bump, which I do a lot less since I passed 810cp, but I know a lot of people still working toward cap, or leveling characters (which I just did with 2 necros) so I do still use it occasionally.

It just seems that the locked roles is causing more grief than it's helping, at least if it was just 4 random guys, any role, you wouldn't be surprised when it turns out that healer doesn't heal or thee tank doesn't tank.

While I disagree 100% with your idea, it does seem on a par with the idea that the group finder should have any problem with an already grouped 4 player team.

If 4 players WANT to put a group of drunk as a skunk Nord healers into a dungeon, surely the group finder should simply send them in. Their group, playing the game their way.

The ONLY time the group finder should do anything more sophisticated is when it is actually putting a group together. Then it’s up to the players to follow the group finder requirements -tank, healer, and 2 dds. Whatever reason you have for doing your random normal, there are 3 other players playing alongside you and it’s just rude to lie about your role.

I personally don’t want to be stuffed into BRF with a *** of a dps pretending to be a tank no matter how magnificent they think their dps is. That’s just going to be 30 minutes of my time wasted.

Delparis

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you see the message that you’re unable to queue, please just keep trying until you enter the queue.

Talking about a great idea, keep pressing the "join" button got me disconeced from the game and now I'm unable to get in because my character "seems" to be still logged in (Error 304).

This isn't a solution, why can't I play for what I pay for ? Am I supposed to get in some town watching others during my free time ?

I'm going to cancel my ESO + subsription as I really think the money i spend isn't used to improve the game quality.

Why should I give you my hard erned money if you fail to give me the service I pay for ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

rluke

same problem

RodneyRegis

Just got kicked trying to queue for a battleground after several cannot queue at this time notifications

Defilted

So ZOS communicates something to us and the first comments are all insults. Players ask over and over again for more communication. Why would they when people make crappy statements as soon as it happens.

Takanami

So basically the same annual message: "We are looking into it, we swear!!"

What an absolute disgrace

daemonios

Defilted wrote: »

So ZOS communicates something to us and the first comments are all insults. Players ask over and over again for more communication. Why would they when people make crappy statements as soon as it happens.

Risks of the trade, I guess. Exacerbated by previous broken promises of improved communication. Can't be easy for the guys and gals at ZOS, but can you blame the players when they have been reporting issues every single day, and asking for some sort of acknowledgement every single day, for the past 2 months (and that's only counting from Matt Firor's previous status update)?

FierceSam

You guys are really making it fricken hard for my toon to get his caltrops.

Cyrodiil is so slow it’s like stop motion time. Every hour of my life is like 2 minutes of Cyrodiil time. The AP drop is minuscule.

Meanwhile BGs are hidden behind a queuing system so Byzantine as to be impossible to navigate. And on those rare occasions where you actually make it through the queue to get into the queue, the group finder is incapable of putting 12 people into the same space. After 20 minutes watching the clock tick down, everyone takes a deserter penalty and vows never to come back.

I can see the meetings at HQ now -

“Hey guys, if we make this as s*** as possible maybe they’ll give in and pay to buy Caltrops on the crown store. It’s a win win for Matt and the boyz. Cocktails and craptats all round.”

Fixing the group finder.? It’s not even an item on the agenda.

idk

Thx for providing an update.

Numerikuu

Defilted wrote: »

So ZOS communicates something to us and the first comments are all insults. Players ask over and over again for more communication. Why would they when people make crappy statements as soon as it happens.

Because despite the comments being 'insults', they are still for the most part constructive. Better negativity than silence. All feedback has value.
Everyone that responds here, be it negative or positive, do so because they like the game/series, they hate the state that it's in, and they want to see it improve. Even Todd acknowledged this the other day during an interview regarding FO76, and he got a massive tidal wave of backlash for that trash heap and rightly so, and will continue to for thinking that it's ok to release an unfinished game--which he also acknowledged--for full price, so long as it has a 'road map' lmao. (Has he not seen how that worked out for Bioware's Anthem? Oof. Sorry, Todd, but you can't sell the chassis of a car for full price but 'promise' you'll get the rest later.)

That aside, the player base here have the right to be angry. They're paying for a product/service and getting something shoddy in return. They're seeing their investments (ESO+) go nowhere, and they're tired of being lied to and being given false promises over, and over, and over, and over, and over--.....you see what I mean?

Arunei

Would rolling the LFG tool back to how it used to be, where a character could queue for two or all three roles at once, help with the issues we see with the queue borking during primetime? If you're willing and able to perform any role, and other people are too, it seems the LFG tool would have a wider pool of people to pull from and thus decrease the wait time overall.

Another idea I've seen is giving us an option to have a party that doesn't consist of 2 deeps, a tank and a healer, and instead taking whatever roles we get. For example there could be a box called "random party" that we could check and it would immediately throw us with the next 3 people in the queue, regardless of what their roles are. Of course with this idea you might end up with a whole team of tanks, but you would go into it knowing you might get a less than desirable group composition.

FierceSam

Arunei wrote: »

Would rolling the LFG tool back to how it used to be, where a character could queue for two or all three roles at once, help with the issues we see with the queue borking during primetime? If you're willing and able to perform any role, and other people are too, it seems the LFG tool would have a wider pool of people to pull from and thus decrease the wait time overall.

Another idea I've seen is giving us an option to have a party that doesn't consist of 2 deeps, a tank and a healer, and instead taking whatever roles we get. For example there could be a box called "random party" that we could check and it would immediately throw us with the next 3 people in the queue, regardless of what their roles are. Of course with this idea you might end up with a whole team of tanks, but you would go into it knowing you might get a less than desirable group composition.

Hey Arunei,

Given the group finder can’t even deal with premade 4 player groups, it’s clear the the issue isn’t simply one of group matching, but one of instance creation and implementation. It’s clear that contention is an issue as everything works fine until demand/second increases as at peak time.

Until the GF enables a premade to enter a dungeon almost immediately, the issues aren’t going to be solved.

Arunei

@FierceSam
I wonder how ZOS is going to handle making more instances since that's one of the main issues the LFG tool is having. But it seems that having a group that can take any person regardless of role would help in getting people into dungeons faster as instances become available, rather than the LFG tool having to take time to put together a specific team composition.

LiraTaurwen

It sure took you long enough to post another copy past response lol knowing this system has been broken for years it's difficult to believe anything will change.

This should have been fixed a long time ago along with server performance etc.

Tulare_Verlaris

I have no faith in their ability to fix the game as it has been broken for so long. Hence I also am unsubbing and adding my voice to it.

If you want this improved and want your voice to "be heard", I strongly suggest people get on Social Media and call them out on this. This forum is not the place to get all this voiced and sorted.

Luckylancer

We have to click spam to que and thats not a bag but a feature at this point lol
Quick fixes like this untill patching it completely is nice. If you can increase blastbones' tooltip to compansate for damage lose, you can make that skill more playable untill patching it.

kongkim

Really nice to see a post about this Made me happy.

Cinbri

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When you see the message that you’re unable to queue, please just keep trying until you enter the queue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWRAO7fhXrk

rabidmyers

yeah fix dps que

Wolfpaw

Imza wrote: »

guild wars 2 has an interesting LFG system where you can create your own listing with a description and everyone can see it...

Is it possible to incorporate something along those lines?

EDIT:
where everyone can see it... and anyone can join it

this would give/make the possibility of an lfg that could also be used for trials

GW2 has the best lfg system I have experienced, simple and works.