Please add a Dungeon Finder with no "kick-possibility"

Surak73

Oh well: even if they remove the option to kick, there will always be the option to run away... And that is what I usually already do when I see that a group is not going to proceed.

Icy_Waffles

I will say it louder for the people in the back.

If you are doing GROUP content... you have to be good enough to not make the GROUP suffer for your lack of skill. If you want to be a self described casual that’s perfectly fine just make some like minded friends and run group content with them.

Some of us want to just complete some content and move on.

mobicera

If they removed the kick feature from dungeons I would simply never que with my tank outside of a full preformed group ever again and frankly would end up logging in far less. Sometimes kicks are necessary, it's just the way it is...

idk

Surak73 wrote: »

Oh well: even if they remove the option to kick, there will always be the option to run away... And that is what I usually already do when I see that a group is not going to proceed.

They cannot remove it as people DC that need to be kicked and anyone with some sense that still uses the GF would stop because they’d be forced to deal with jerks. Common sense here.

Surak73

idk wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Oh well: even if they remove the option to kick, there will always be the option to run away... And that is what I usually already do when I see that a group is not going to proceed.

They cannot remove it as people DC that need to be kicked and anyone with some sense that still uses the GF would stop because they’d be forced to deal with jerks. Common sense here.

I see: what I was saying is that, even if they prevent kicking, they couldn't prevent people running away. There is no way to force someone into doing a content with players unable to do it.

zvavi

I want to clarify something. U need a premade. Not a premade group. One person is all you need

Kingslayer513

I have literally never seen someone get kicked from a random normal dungeon.

We're not talking about vet dungeons, right?

NyassaV

You might be legitimately holding them back? You never know and it's very hard to say without examples and more information. The kick needs to be there sadly.

KobaSSTheSlumpGod

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

I have literally never seen someone get kicked from a random normal dungeon.

We're not talking about vet dungeons, right?

It's a general discussion, but for me it is mainly normal, I don't do vet dungeons often

KobaSSTheSlumpGod

NyassaV wrote: »

You might be legitimately holding them back? You never know and it's very hard to say without examples and more information. The kick needs to be there sadly.

The idea was about a totally separated queue
Obviously just an idea of a random dude making threads on forum; it could either be different or get improved

Wolfpaw

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Eso version of GW2 lfg-fixed.

GW2 LFG system.
1. No queue built in
2. No fake X opportunity
3. Player driven group composition & playstyle

Just some examples of a ESO version GW2 LFG system posts,

Lf2m CP300+ all dps speed run
Lf1m CP800+ Healer skin run, know fights
Lf3m any lvl dd/tank Pledge runs
Lf1m Storymode - No CP slow run

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

This would probably be the best solution for everyone

Unfortunately it seems to grab little traction in this community, but does fix every complaint & issue.

Pretty sure GW2 lacks the toxicity of the CP system and has more of specific tanking build vs just a tank. So the comparison isn’t very comparable. The most absurd thing Zos coulda did is to allow us to set our own conditions for CP. if you have a problem with that form your own group.

A player driven composition/playstyle lfg system is exactly what we need, and the best solution.

Ozby

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Before we start, I have to clarify that I'm not, nor I'm near to be, a "hardcore" player. I'm 100% certified casual . I'm not saying this to offend anyone or anything; I enjoy the game as it is and it's a choose of mine to not put a lot of dedication to it in order to complete harder contents. (Just to make it clear: the only 2 raids I did were Hel'ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive, both in normal mode and I was struggling with them, so please don't be harsh or anything lol)...

Now; let's get to the Topic of this discussion.
As a lot of people are already complaining about the Dungeon Finder and its many flaws, this gotta be changed, somehow. My idea about it is to add another Dungeon Queue, different from the main one but, with only one difference: there is not the option to kick people. I know, I know I know... it MAY sound stupid / useless, actually IT DOES sound stupid / useless but, think about it. How many times people that just want to HAVE FUN in this game - instead of being the best of the best - have been kicked from a Dungeon - sometimes even halfway through the end of it - because considered too "noob" by the elitist pug the queue put us with; and I'm not talking about veteran dungeons, because I totally gave up on those! . If you don't have a group to play with, they don't let you complete harder contents but, if you never do them because you get cut out by those people, how are you even supposed to get better at the game?
Yes, I know - "You could just get a premade group"; I'm gonna answer this question asap; forming a premade group is not what the Dungeon Finder is for? If you have to get a premade group everytime then what's the sense of having a dungeon finder? Let's just delete it at this point XD. I don't really understand why there isn't a proper matchmaking in this game!
Now, you may ask, "What's the point of having it if you can still get people that wanna complete the dungeon as fast as possible anyway?" - well, that's their own problem to be honest! Imagine it like this: people that want to complete dungeons fast will still go with the normal Dungeon Finder, so if they find a "noob" they still have the possibility to kick them or whatever, really. Meanwhile, people who just want to have fun and don't really care about the time spent on those dungeons, but just want to understand what the dungeon is about instead of rushing everything because of random people, then will go with this new dungeon finder without the FEAR of being kicked, wasting just a LOT of time!

Let me know what you guys think about this; every thoughts will be well-accepted

In before tho: please don't reply with things such as "just L2P", "git gud" or similar, they don't help at all the discussion and will be deleted by ZoS anyway (in case they read this post), so it's just a waste of time both for me and for you!

P.S. I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear, but I'm not english native, so my grammar may be really bad

I can understand your point however if they did add this they would be inundated with troll players going in to just wreck it for other people. The kick feature at least provides some security against people like this.

And then there's the idiot elitists with no patience who kick people for being new, I personally do not do this I try to help new players by saying in the group chat what to do and stuff. Most of the time they ignore me completely but some thank me at the end of the dungeon too. At this point I would settle for just a group finder that works properly let alone having ones for different group scenarios.

Massacre_Wurm

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

I have literally never seen someone get kicked from a random normal dungeon.

We're not talking about vet dungeons, right?

I was kicked. Yesterday. Bacause i have failed to follow the group after they took a wierd shortcut in Fungai Grotto 2.

KobaSSTheSlumpGod

Ozby wrote: »

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Before we start, I have to clarify that I'm not, nor I'm near to be, a "hardcore" player. I'm 100% certified casual . I'm not saying this to offend anyone or anything; I enjoy the game as it is and it's a choose of mine to not put a lot of dedication to it in order to complete harder contents. (Just to make it clear: the only 2 raids I did were Hel'ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive, both in normal mode and I was struggling with them, so please don't be harsh or anything lol)...

Now; let's get to the Topic of this discussion.
As a lot of people are already complaining about the Dungeon Finder and its many flaws, this gotta be changed, somehow. My idea about it is to add another Dungeon Queue, different from the main one but, with only one difference: there is not the option to kick people. I know, I know I know... it MAY sound stupid / useless, actually IT DOES sound stupid / useless but, think about it. How many times people that just want to HAVE FUN in this game - instead of being the best of the best - have been kicked from a Dungeon - sometimes even halfway through the end of it - because considered too "noob" by the elitist pug the queue put us with; and I'm not talking about veteran dungeons, because I totally gave up on those! . If you don't have a group to play with, they don't let you complete harder contents but, if you never do them because you get cut out by those people, how are you even supposed to get better at the game?
Yes, I know - "You could just get a premade group"; I'm gonna answer this question asap; forming a premade group is not what the Dungeon Finder is for? If you have to get a premade group everytime then what's the sense of having a dungeon finder? Let's just delete it at this point XD. I don't really understand why there isn't a proper matchmaking in this game!
Now, you may ask, "What's the point of having it if you can still get people that wanna complete the dungeon as fast as possible anyway?" - well, that's their own problem to be honest! Imagine it like this: people that want to complete dungeons fast will still go with the normal Dungeon Finder, so if they find a "noob" they still have the possibility to kick them or whatever, really. Meanwhile, people who just want to have fun and don't really care about the time spent on those dungeons, but just want to understand what the dungeon is about instead of rushing everything because of random people, then will go with this new dungeon finder without the FEAR of being kicked, wasting just a LOT of time!

Let me know what you guys think about this; every thoughts will be well-accepted

In before tho: please don't reply with things such as "just L2P", "git gud" or similar, they don't help at all the discussion and will be deleted by ZoS anyway (in case they read this post), so it's just a waste of time both for me and for you!

P.S. I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear, but I'm not english native, so my grammar may be really bad

I can understand your point however if they did add this they would be inundated with troll players going in to just wreck it for other people. The kick feature at least provides some security against people like this.

And then there's the idiot elitists with no patience who kick people for being new, I personally do not do this I try to help new players by saying in the group chat what to do and stuff. Most of the time they ignore me completely but some thank me at the end of the dungeon too. At this point I would settle for just a group finder that works properly let alone having ones for different group scenarios.

Yeah, but from my experience it is easier to find *** more than people that actually help you out instead of rushing :-/

FearlessOne_2014

We just need a player driven player finder.

It works wonders in GW2. It would do the same here.

sharquez

Can we start by having one that works in the first place? That's a good start point I think. Once we get that part down then we can talk customizability.

WrathOfInnos

The kick option is not intended to be used for “noobs”. It exists as a protection against trolls and griefers, and these would be a much bigger problem without the ability to kick. IMO kicking someone because they are not good enough is misuse of the tool. Kicking someone because they refuse to perform the task they queued for is a legitimate reason.

WolfStar07

Sometimes the person getting kicked is the elitist one with a bad attitude. I don't think it's fair to have to have the rest of the group quit just because they can't kick someone.

TheGreatBlackBear

Kicking exists to guard against people who underestimate the dungeon, or overestimate their skill. Not everyone has the time or inclination to watch some die to the same mechanics over and over and over again or take five minutes on an add pull.

zaria

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Kicking exists to guard against people who underestimate the dungeon, or overestimate their skill. Not everyone has the time or inclination to watch some die to the same mechanics over and over and over again or take five minutes on an add pull.

This, its less of an problem now, they set normal dungeon as default so you don't end in vet dlc on some trash build you want skill-point from dungeon. Also changed so you don't get normal dlc most of the time as an level 10 with eso+, that one was annoying.

Jeremy

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Before we start, I have to clarify that I'm not, nor I'm near to be, a "hardcore" player. I'm 100% certified casual . I'm not saying this to offend anyone or anything; I enjoy the game as it is and it's a choose of mine to not put a lot of dedication to it in order to complete harder contents. (Just to make it clear: the only 2 raids I did were Hel'ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive, both in normal mode and I was struggling with them, so please don't be harsh or anything lol)...

Now; let's get to the Topic of this discussion.
As a lot of people are already complaining about the Dungeon Finder and its many flaws, this gotta be changed, somehow. My idea about it is to add another Dungeon Queue, different from the main one but, with only one difference: there is not the option to kick people. I know, I know I know... it MAY sound stupid / useless, actually IT DOES sound stupid / useless but, think about it. How many times people that just want to HAVE FUN in this game - instead of being the best of the best - have been kicked from a Dungeon - sometimes even halfway through the end of it - because considered too "noob" by the elitist pug the queue put us with; and I'm not talking about veteran dungeons, because I totally gave up on those! . If you don't have a group to play with, they don't let you complete harder contents but, if you never do them because you get cut out by those people, how are you even supposed to get better at the game?
Yes, I know - "You could just get a premade group"; I'm gonna answer this question asap; forming a premade group is not what the Dungeon Finder is for? If you have to get a premade group everytime then what's the sense of having a dungeon finder? Let's just delete it at this point XD. I don't really understand why there isn't a proper matchmaking in this game!
Now, you may ask, "What's the point of having it if you can still get people that wanna complete the dungeon as fast as possible anyway?" - well, that's their own problem to be honest! Imagine it like this: people that want to complete dungeons fast will still go with the normal Dungeon Finder, so if they find a "noob" they still have the possibility to kick them or whatever, really. Meanwhile, people who just want to have fun and don't really care about the time spent on those dungeons, but just want to understand what the dungeon is about instead of rushing everything because of random people, then will go with this new dungeon finder without the FEAR of being kicked, wasting just a LOT of time!

Let me know what you guys think about this; every thoughts will be well-accepted

In before tho: please don't reply with things such as "just L2P", "git gud" or similar, they don't help at all the discussion and will be deleted by ZoS anyway (in case they read this post), so it's just a waste of time both for me and for you!

P.S. I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear, but I'm not english native, so my grammar may be really bad

I'd be fine with this. To be honest, I think they should just remove the kick function all together and have said so in the past. I believe it causes more harm than good and is net bad for the game. For every legitimate kick there's probably at least a dozen that were uncalled for and unnecessary. That or retool the system to where it's more resistant to abuse - such as preventing those who queue up together from conspiring to kick others who don't meet their superficial standards or indeed those who simply use it as a tool to troll.

AlnilamE

Jeremy wrote: »

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Before we start, I have to clarify that I'm not, nor I'm near to be, a "hardcore" player. I'm 100% certified casual . I'm not saying this to offend anyone or anything; I enjoy the game as it is and it's a choose of mine to not put a lot of dedication to it in order to complete harder contents. (Just to make it clear: the only 2 raids I did were Hel'ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive, both in normal mode and I was struggling with them, so please don't be harsh or anything lol)...

Now; let's get to the Topic of this discussion.
As a lot of people are already complaining about the Dungeon Finder and its many flaws, this gotta be changed, somehow. My idea about it is to add another Dungeon Queue, different from the main one but, with only one difference: there is not the option to kick people. I know, I know I know... it MAY sound stupid / useless, actually IT DOES sound stupid / useless but, think about it. How many times people that just want to HAVE FUN in this game - instead of being the best of the best - have been kicked from a Dungeon - sometimes even halfway through the end of it - because considered too "noob" by the elitist pug the queue put us with; and I'm not talking about veteran dungeons, because I totally gave up on those! . If you don't have a group to play with, they don't let you complete harder contents but, if you never do them because you get cut out by those people, how are you even supposed to get better at the game?
Yes, I know - "You could just get a premade group"; I'm gonna answer this question asap; forming a premade group is not what the Dungeon Finder is for? If you have to get a premade group everytime then what's the sense of having a dungeon finder? Let's just delete it at this point XD. I don't really understand why there isn't a proper matchmaking in this game!
Now, you may ask, "What's the point of having it if you can still get people that wanna complete the dungeon as fast as possible anyway?" - well, that's their own problem to be honest! Imagine it like this: people that want to complete dungeons fast will still go with the normal Dungeon Finder, so if they find a "noob" they still have the possibility to kick them or whatever, really. Meanwhile, people who just want to have fun and don't really care about the time spent on those dungeons, but just want to understand what the dungeon is about instead of rushing everything because of random people, then will go with this new dungeon finder without the FEAR of being kicked, wasting just a LOT of time!

Let me know what you guys think about this; every thoughts will be well-accepted

In before tho: please don't reply with things such as "just L2P", "git gud" or similar, they don't help at all the discussion and will be deleted by ZoS anyway (in case they read this post), so it's just a waste of time both for me and for you!

P.S. I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear, but I'm not english native, so my grammar may be really bad

I'd be fine with this. To be honest, I think they should just remove the kick function all together and have said so in the past. I believe it causes more harm than good and is net bad for the game. For every legitimate kick there's probably at least a dozen that were uncalled for and unnecessary. That or retool the system to where it's more resistant to abuse - such as preventing those who queue up together from conspiring to kick others who don't meet their superficial standards or indeed those who simply use it as a tool to troll.

I'm sorry, but I'd rather get kicked for no reason than have to run a dungeon with ***. Because if you have a group of 3 and you only need one more person, I don't want me and my guildies stuck with a rude player.

OP: Simply queue with one person already in your group. That way the PUGs won't have a majority to kick you.

WhyMustItBe

I think the solution, like with most problems, comes from a compromise.

Just making a no-kick queue won't solve anything, because the elitists, rather than carrying a truly terrible group, will make an assessment about 5 minutes in, then simply LEAVE if it looks like things are going exceptionally badly. Like in Game of Thrones: "No, we cannot force you to leave, and YOU cannot force US to stay."

They will simply see that dropping a bad group and forming a premade will take up less of their time and frustration than sticking with it till the end, and leave. Problem not solved, frustration only amplified.

I think a better solution would be for people who want to have fun to not try and rush ahead to veteran content to do it and instead run all the NORMAL mode dungeons first which exist specifically for that purpose of learning the story and how to play in a group environment.

Also, people need to be a little willing to compromise on their end as well. The attitude of "I'm just gonna light attack with this resto staff with all points into stamina because that's how I roll, stop judging" is not a very healthy or conducive mindset (not saying this is you, but it happens). It is in fact terribly selfish when you have made the conscious choice to participate in group content, to not bother doing the minimum preparation necessary to research group builds a little and learn some of the basics of group gameplay.

If you joined a basketball team and then just grabbed the ball and ran around the court, not dribbling, not giving it up to anyone else, screaming "La la la I am the basketborn!" would you consider that a fair and considerate contribution to the team, and respectful treatment of the other human beings whose time you had agreed to share for that activity?

I mean I am sure they were having fun in their own little world but people that work together need to learn that not everything is about their personal enjoyment. That does not mean it isn't possible to have both, it just takes a minimal level of PREPARATION and you will find that you feel much better about yourself as well.

For example, It is not that difficult to slot a couple AOE abilities on your bar, invest the gold or farming time to upgrade gear at least to purple, and look up some of the basics about how abilities scale off weapon damage or your max resource, which sets are good for your class *and easily obtainable through crafting or guild stores) and PREPARE before committing to share (or waste) other people's time, who are just as real as you with their own problems and struggles in life they are playing to get away from.

No mortal can tolerate having their time wasted.

I get that it is frustrating when people are rude just because you don't do 50k+ dps in a 4-man which is ridiculous overkill. However there are extremes on both sides and doing 3k dps because you are having fun isn't really very considerate either.

I think you will find that if you explain to people you are new and are open to some constructive feedback, most are perfectly willing to help, let you read quests, and won't kick you unless you are rude or combative.

Most people are not the few vocal d-bags that ruin things for everyone. So ignore them, and don't be one, and the problem might just end up resolving itself with some time, preparation, and practice.

zaria

WOW had an kick restriction. you could only kick once in an dungeon, you got an bonus kick if none had kicked anybody this day.
Now this "saved" me once as in got into an GOGOGO Group who wiped on next trash as they did not bother to wait for my healer running from start until there they was, and also to switch from dd to healer setup.
Yes I trolled them quite a bit as they behaved so toxic I knew they had kicked the other healer so took my time

Another time it kicked back, guild run, some goes offline, also offline on voice so we waited then kicked. asked finder for replacement, got some guy, we noticed something was and he has set himself as follow healer while afk.
As some in group had kicked in another dungeon we could not kick so we just had him die on trash and continued.

Taleof2Cities

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

It's all about luck I guess xD

Looks like you already know what you’re signing up for when you use the dungeon finder, @KobaSSTheSlumpGod.

Which also answers your question about why everyone doesn’t make a pre-made group. It’s because players are flexible with whom they play with in the dungeon.

You, however, are inflexible. Which is totally fine ... but you don’t queue if you have specific requirements. Find a pre-made group.

DeadlyRecluse

Just removing kick functionality would be better, IMO, than splitting the queue.

Splitting the queue unnecessarily is not a good idea, especially when it's function is questionable at best in the first place.

LeagueTroll

‘I am a free loaders and others must carry me’? have fun with the fake tanks in ur perfect no kick que.

LeagueTroll

What we need is a mediocre que and a potato que, i present the solution ‘ppl who cleared vma on any toon in que 1, other ppl in que2’. So no more 10k dps in que1 and no elitism in que2.

Thokri

Removing kick would mean that no one who is even half decent would use dungeon tool.
Already rarely anyone does veteran dlc dungeons using lfg tool and I dont blame them.


Been playing online games for two decades and times I seen kick that was not deserved can be counted with one hand and pretty much just was trolling and I have played a lot, and I mean a lot.


Now when I got limited time to play I love that there is kick function because what I see a lot is people going afk "lul mom says i got to eat" or dc/crash for long time or 99% cases, just being obnoxious ***. Wasting other players time because your are selfish is a *** move, this is not single player game.

Harder content is whole different deal of course, I mean if you cant/are not suited for it. You should stay away from it, just ike on real life. You don't qualify for olympic sprinter just because you want to but you can still run at local track if you want to.


Most people lack common decency to do their worth in general, it is very frustrating to people who see that as pathetic. I did not step in veteran dungeons before I was sure I did at least 20k dps on my damage dealers and watched mechanics guide, because I loathe idea of being carried.


What I have learned during life is that *** think they are gods gift to humankind, they never see any fault in themselves when in fact they usually are at bottom on skill and social pleasantness scale.

Jeremy

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KobaSSTheSlumpGod wrote: »

Before we start, I have to clarify that I'm not, nor I'm near to be, a "hardcore" player. I'm 100% certified casual . I'm not saying this to offend anyone or anything; I enjoy the game as it is and it's a choose of mine to not put a lot of dedication to it in order to complete harder contents. (Just to make it clear: the only 2 raids I did were Hel'ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive, both in normal mode and I was struggling with them, so please don't be harsh or anything lol)...

Now; let's get to the Topic of this discussion.
As a lot of people are already complaining about the Dungeon Finder and its many flaws, this gotta be changed, somehow. My idea about it is to add another Dungeon Queue, different from the main one but, with only one difference: there is not the option to kick people. I know, I know I know... it MAY sound stupid / useless, actually IT DOES sound stupid / useless but, think about it. How many times people that just want to HAVE FUN in this game - instead of being the best of the best - have been kicked from a Dungeon - sometimes even halfway through the end of it - because considered too "noob" by the elitist pug the queue put us with; and I'm not talking about veteran dungeons, because I totally gave up on those! . If you don't have a group to play with, they don't let you complete harder contents but, if you never do them because you get cut out by those people, how are you even supposed to get better at the game?
Yes, I know - "You could just get a premade group"; I'm gonna answer this question asap; forming a premade group is not what the Dungeon Finder is for? If you have to get a premade group everytime then what's the sense of having a dungeon finder? Let's just delete it at this point XD. I don't really understand why there isn't a proper matchmaking in this game!
Now, you may ask, "What's the point of having it if you can still get people that wanna complete the dungeon as fast as possible anyway?" - well, that's their own problem to be honest! Imagine it like this: people that want to complete dungeons fast will still go with the normal Dungeon Finder, so if they find a "noob" they still have the possibility to kick them or whatever, really. Meanwhile, people who just want to have fun and don't really care about the time spent on those dungeons, but just want to understand what the dungeon is about instead of rushing everything because of random people, then will go with this new dungeon finder without the FEAR of being kicked, wasting just a LOT of time!

Let me know what you guys think about this; every thoughts will be well-accepted

In before tho: please don't reply with things such as "just L2P", "git gud" or similar, they don't help at all the discussion and will be deleted by ZoS anyway (in case they read this post), so it's just a waste of time both for me and for you!

P.S. I'm sorry if some parts aren't clear, but I'm not english native, so my grammar may be really bad

I'd be fine with this. To be honest, I think they should just remove the kick function all together and have said so in the past. I believe it causes more harm than good and is net bad for the game. For every legitimate kick there's probably at least a dozen that were uncalled for and unnecessary. That or retool the system to where it's more resistant to abuse - such as preventing those who queue up together from conspiring to kick others who don't meet their superficial standards or indeed those who simply use it as a tool to troll.

I'm sorry, but I'd rather get kicked for no reason than have to run a dungeon with ***. Because if you have a group of 3 and you only need one more person, I don't want me and my guildies stuck with a rude player.

OP: Simply queue with one person already in your group. That way the PUGs won't have a majority to kick you.

After you land in a troll group who kick you right before the last boss just to screw with you - you might have a different opinion.

The system is too easy to abuse. You can always just put the *** on ignore.