Pirate Skeleton NEEDS adjustment

Mayrael

Derra wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.

The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.

Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.

Yup people are talking about PS bull sheit, most of them have no idea how defensive buffs are calculated. Just a reminder - these are multiplicative meaning that major protection in PvP NEVER will give you more than 15% damage mitigation because of battle spirit. It is calculated like this:
Total mitigation = (1-(1-50%)*(1-30%))*100 = 65%

Same goes with 15% from Grim Focus (it can be 7,5% at best) or AoE damage reduction etc. etc.

The more resistances you have in general the less potent are those buffs. So comparing this like "You take 30% less damage but healing is cut only by 15%" is false, because in PvP major protection will give you 15% at best (I don't count vulnerabilities).

In general it is more of a placebo effect than real OP buff, when you meet someone tanky it's not because he uses just pirate skeleton, but because in general he uses tanky build. I'm laughing my ass of when I see people saying that new grim focus made them "so tanky". Yeah... In real environment something around 5% (when taking into consideration other sources of mitigation) less damage is so huuuge 😂 It's like having about 1k more health on typical build?

Edit:
Oh and because of the reasons above I don't use pirate skelly, there are better options, that's why I don't think this set needs a nerf.

You know what you have to do? Step by step.

1. Log into the game.
2. Invite someone you know to a duel.
3.Wear pirate skeleton.
4. Have that person light attack you.
5. Write down the crit and noncrit dmg of these attacks without pirate active.
6. Write down the crit and noncrit dmg of these attacks when pirate is active.
7. Calculate how much dmg reduction is provided by pirate skeleton from these notes.
8. Realize it´s not even close to 15%.

For me personally on my actual pvp build (no defensive buffs active though) a velidreth procc gets reduced from 3426 (pirate not active) to 2490 (pirate active) dmg. Which is about 27.3% less dmg taken.
Another example: Suprise attack without pirate noncrit for 3254. With pirate active this gets reduced to 2278. This is almost spot on target 30% mitigation btw.
Ofc this gets reduced a bit with more defense buffs - i´ve just tested it on a sorc without armor buff to get those numbers on 13.9k phys resistance.
Saying pirate will never provide more than 15% mitigation is however flatout wrong when you actually care to test anything in the game (this is because looking at absolut vs effective dmg mitigation makes zero sense with battlespirit being multiplicative to everything else as you then compare pre battlespirit dmg to the mitigation provided after - but you´re never getting pre battlespirit dmg on a player).

Edit: That being said though - i don´t think pirate should be nerfed before block/heavyarmor/shieldstacking etc are adressed. It´s almost essential to make some builds on the squishier side of things even remotely vaible.

Yeah I admit I was wrong Tested, it works like you said My bad.

Waffennacht

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Lord-Otto

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Derra

Mayrael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.

The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.

Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.

Yup people are talking about PS bull sheit, most of them have no idea how defensive buffs are calculated. Just a reminder - these are multiplicative meaning that major protection in PvP NEVER will give you more than 15% damage mitigation because of battle spirit. It is calculated like this:
Total mitigation = (1-(1-50%)*(1-30%))*100 = 65%

Same goes with 15% from Grim Focus (it can be 7,5% at best) or AoE damage reduction etc. etc.

The more resistances you have in general the less potent are those buffs. So comparing this like "You take 30% less damage but healing is cut only by 15%" is false, because in PvP major protection will give you 15% at best (I don't count vulnerabilities).

In general it is more of a placebo effect than real OP buff, when you meet someone tanky it's not because he uses just pirate skeleton, but because in general he uses tanky build. I'm laughing my ass of when I see people saying that new grim focus made them "so tanky". Yeah... In real environment something around 5% (when taking into consideration other sources of mitigation) less damage is so huuuge 😂 It's like having about 1k more health on typical build?

Edit:
Oh and because of the reasons above I don't use pirate skelly, there are better options, that's why I don't think this set needs a nerf.

You know what you have to do? Step by step.

1. Log into the game.
2. Invite someone you know to a duel.
3.Wear pirate skeleton.
4. Have that person light attack you.
5. Write down the crit and noncrit dmg of these attacks without pirate active.
6. Write down the crit and noncrit dmg of these attacks when pirate is active.
7. Calculate how much dmg reduction is provided by pirate skeleton from these notes.
8. Realize it´s not even close to 15%.

For me personally on my actual pvp build (no defensive buffs active though) a velidreth procc gets reduced from 3426 (pirate not active) to 2490 (pirate active) dmg. Which is about 27.3% less dmg taken.
Another example: Suprise attack without pirate noncrit for 3254. With pirate active this gets reduced to 2278. This is almost spot on target 30% mitigation btw.
Ofc this gets reduced a bit with more defense buffs - i´ve just tested it on a sorc without armor buff to get those numbers on 13.9k phys resistance.
Saying pirate will never provide more than 15% mitigation is however flatout wrong when you actually care to test anything in the game (this is because looking at absolut vs effective dmg mitigation makes zero sense with battlespirit being multiplicative to everything else as you then compare pre battlespirit dmg to the mitigation provided after - but you´re never getting pre battlespirit dmg on a player).

Edit: That being said though - i don´t think pirate should be nerfed before block/heavyarmor/shieldstacking etc are adressed. It´s almost essential to make some builds on the squishier side of things even remotely vaible.

Yeah I admit I was wrong Tested, it works like you said My bad.

Sorry didn´t mean to sound as snarky.

Waffennacht

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

OMG. Too funny, too freaking funny!

Took me a sec but boy howdy when I got there... (That's what she said)

Lord-Otto

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

OMG. Too funny, too freaking funny!

Took me a sec but boy howdy when I got there... (That's what she said)

(^___^)

Trinity_Is_My_Name

LOL. Uh...no.

Lokey0024

Hey, let's kill the set. Or make it only viable for tanks. Take away minor defile and add major maim, reducing dmg by 30%. Seems fair, so 80% of the time you're a turtle with pillowhands.

bardx86

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Lord-Otto

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Because of the extra penetration? Don't really need it if your stick is sharpened...

bardx86

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Because of the extra penetration? Don't really need it if your stick is sharpened...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Because of the extra penetration? Don't really need it if your stick is sharpened...

Is there a potion for that? I might needs some help.

Lord-Otto

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Because of the extra penetration? Don't really need it if your stick is sharpened...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind there are many sources of major protection...

Some long forgotten

Latex?

Shouldn't the lover mudus still be as effective even with latex except it wouldn't feel as good?

Because of the extra penetration? Don't really need it if your stick is sharpened...

Is there a potion for that? I might needs some help.

Try Horker horn!
>;3

Zelos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!

If you cant understand how broke sorc is then you are either, 1 not a good player and just runs with zergs or, 2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

Emma_Overload

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!

If you cant understand how broke sorc is then you are either, 1 not a good player and just runs with zergs or, 2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

Your comment is nonsense. You refuse to address the fact that the nerf to this set caused it to have much lower uptime on Magicka Sorcs. That's simply not fair any way you spin it.

bardx86

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!

If you cant understand how broke sorc is then you are either, 1 not a good player and just runs with zergs or, 2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

Your comment is nonsense. You refuse to address the fact that the nerf to this set caused it to have much lower uptime on Magicka Sorcs. That's simply not fair any way you spin it.

Exactly!

Insco851

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!

If you cant understand how broke sorc is then you are either, 1 not a good player and just runs with zergs or, 2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

Your comment is nonsense. You refuse to address the fact that the nerf to this set caused it to have much lower uptime on Magicka Sorcs. That's simply not fair any way you spin it.

Lol you need max resists, 27k health, 20k shields AND MAJOR PROTECTION?!.... cmon

thankyourat

Insco851 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOPE.

If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!

If you cant understand how broke sorc is then you are either, 1 not a good player and just runs with zergs or, 2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

Your comment is nonsense. You refuse to address the fact that the nerf to this set caused it to have much lower uptime on Magicka Sorcs. That's simply not fair any way you spin it.

Lol you need max resists, 27k health, 20k shields AND MAJOR PROTECTION?!.... cmon

A huge burst heal and portable LoS as well

Waffennacht

Good thing no one uses daedric trickery on a mag sorc and a pet helm such as shadowrend for the maim or passives....

Good thing....

ShadowProc

Waffennacht wrote: »

Good thing no one uses daedric trickery on a mag sorc and a pet helm such as shadowrend for the maim or passives....

Good thing....

I don’t see how that set beats out Lich or Necro.

Waffennacht

ShadowProc wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Good thing no one uses daedric trickery on a mag sorc and a pet helm such as shadowrend for the maim or passives....

Good thing....

I don’t see how that set beats out Lich or Necro.

It beats out pirate, which imo as @Emma_Overload pointed out has the lowest uptime on a sorc. Replace pirate with any offensive or defensive helm (or sustain) which will then beat out lich.

I'd say E.G. + DT + Necro is far superior to Pirate + Lich + Necro for example (E.G. could even be the new sustain helm if you wanted a more direct comparison to sustain)

With a higher and more crucial uptime on important buffs, especially if running the Matriarch.

But my main point is that if you nerf pirate, DT or other sets are available for the same buff. It's not pirate directly that is strong. It's major protection primarily, though a Matriarch with major mending/vitality is a massive heal too

TheRedRavenTR

The amount of people here that thinks pirate skeleton is fine and not literally the strongest defensive set in the game by an incredible gap is so weird to me. Maximum resists give you 50% damage reduction, and this set gives you 3k resists, on top of that, gives you 30% damage reduction. When you compare it with resistances you can see how OP it is. Downtime is non-existant. And especially on a nb, you can get so much mitigation, Dark Cloak(8%)+Assasin's Will(15%)+Minor Maim(15%)+Pirate Skelly(30%) of course they stack differently but when you put max resists on top of that(really easy to achieve on a 7th fury build with easy sustain and 6k+ weapon damage.) you got yourself Chuck Norris but probably stronger. Pirate skeleton is not fine, the skelly transform bug can be solved by wearing a costume from main quest in bergama. Its too strong, i legit cant unserstand how everyone doesnt see this.

Derra

TheRedRavenTR wrote: »

The amount of people here that thinks pirate skeleton is fine and not literally the strongest defensive set in the game by an incredible gap is so weird to me. Maximum resists give you 50% damage reduction, and this set gives you 3k resists, on top of that, gives you 30% damage reduction. When you compare it with resistances you can see how OP it is. Downtime is non-existant. And especially on a nb, you can get so much mitigation, Dark Cloak(8%)+Assasin's Will(15%)+Minor Maim(15%)+Pirate Skelly(30%) of course they stack differently but when you put max resists on top of that(really easy to achieve on a 7th fury build with easy sustain and 6k+ weapon damage.) you got yourself Chuck Norris but probably stronger. Pirate skeleton is not fine, the skelly transform bug can be solved by wearing a costume from main quest in bergama. Its too strong, i legit cant unserstand how everyone doesnt see this.

Probs the same reason why some heavy stamDKs live in denial of bloodspawn being in the same category of opness for their class.

TriangularChicken

TheRedRavenTR wrote: »

The amount of people here that thinks pirate skeleton is fine and not literally the strongest defensive set in the game by an incredible gap is so weird to me. Maximum resists give you 50% damage reduction, and this set gives you 3k resists, on top of that, gives you 30% damage reduction. When you compare it with resistances you can see how OP it is. Downtime is non-existant. And especially on a nb, you can get so much mitigation, Dark Cloak(8%)+Assasin's Will(15%)+Minor Maim(15%)+Pirate Skelly(30%) of course they stack differently but when you put max resists on top of that(really easy to achieve on a 7th fury build with easy sustain and 6k+ weapon damage.) you got yourself Chuck Norris but probably stronger. Pirate skeleton is not fine, the skelly transform bug can be solved by wearing a costume from main quest in bergama. Its too strong, i legit cant unserstand how everyone doesnt see this.

that sounds like the mitigation you get on a stam nb is the problem and not pirate skeleton^^

olsborg

Insco851 wrote: »

Pretty sure Black Rose DW is more OP than PS anyways....

Yes. There are too many ways to get major protection. Remove it from BRdw and give pirate skel a bigger negative then 15% defile. 90% of magplars use pirate skel. (imo)

That alone wouldnt fix this very boring tank meta, but it couldnt hurt.

maxjapank

You know, if people don’t like a tank meta, you could take away - Protective trait on jewelry. You could also make heavy armor sets do less weapon dmg. Players would really have to balance more between sustain, defense, and offense. You could also make max stats scale less. Then you’d really have to make harder choices about spell /weapon dmg vs. Magicka / Stamina.

Trian94

Pirate skeleton is overperforming no doubt. I've seen the set save lives in PvP that shouldn't be saved. Literally keeps people in the fight when they're spent. Witnessed it countless times in no cp PvP and in cp PvP. People say "uhm but it has minor defile as a drawback". Sorry but if you rock lingering pots or have a major/minor healing buff the pirate skeleton healing debuff becomes next to nothing because any healing becomes so much more effective when you take so much less damage and I'm not taking healing cp into account. (I'm gonna leave shield stackers with bright throat + bloody mara or loaded infusion out of this on purpose cause there's no point) I'd say the best course of action is to remove major/ minor protection from sets or these sets from PvP, as well as any hard proc of healing and damage like earthgore, viper etc regardless of how powerful it is. PvP sets should be around stats and so should proc sets be. Even if this were to happen tho adjustments might be needed in certain sets.

TriangularChicken

Trian94 wrote: »

Pirate skeleton is overperforming no doubt. I've seen the set save lives in PvP that shouldn't be saved. Literally keeps people in the fight when they're spent. Witnessed it countless times in no cp PvP and in cp PvP. People say "uhm but it has minor defile as a drawback". Sorry but if you rock lingering pots or have a major/minor healing buff the pirate skeleton healing debuff becomes next to nothing because any healing becomes so much more effective when you take so much less damage and I'm not taking healing cp into account. (I'm gonna leave shield stackers with bright throat + bloody mara or loaded infusion out of this on purpose cause there's no point) I'd say the best course of action is to remove major/ minor protection from sets or these sets from PvP, as well as any hard proc of healing and damage like earthgore, viper etc regardless of how powerful it is. PvP sets should be around stats and so should proc sets be. Even if this were to happen tho adjustments might be needed in certain sets.

It's easy to say remove protection from sets when you're maining a stam sorc - the class with the best mobility in this game. You know some classes can't just reach corners and LoS by using streak to close the gap..

Insco851

Trian94 wrote: »

Pirate skeleton is overperforming no doubt. I've seen the set save lives in PvP that shouldn't be saved. Literally keeps people in the fight when they're spent. Witnessed it countless times in no cp PvP and in cp PvP. People say "uhm but it has minor defile as a drawback". Sorry but if you rock lingering pots or have a major/minor healing buff the pirate skeleton healing debuff becomes next to nothing because any healing becomes so much more effective when you take so much less damage and I'm not taking healing cp into account. (I'm gonna leave shield stackers with bright throat + bloody mara or loaded infusion out of this on purpose cause there's no point) I'd say the best course of action is to remove major/ minor protection from sets or these sets from PvP, as well as any hard proc of healing and damage like earthgore, viper etc regardless of how powerful it is. PvP sets should be around stats and so should proc sets be. Even if this were to happen tho adjustments might be needed in certain sets.

Are you saying pirate skelly MINOR defile means nothing when I use a major vitality lingering pot? Hrmmm

(Skelly op for sure.)

mursie

Zelos wrote: »

2 handicapping yourself becuase you want to feel morally superior to everyone for not using cheese. Here's a thought, stop dragging your morals in the game and run the "meta".

there is some truth to this comment. I struggle with this concept often.

At the end of the day, my morals and integrity will not allow me to hypocritically embrace the very brokenness i openly despise.

You would easily win a dodgeball game against 5 year olds simply because of your "stat" advantage as an adult. Still, I'd rather not participate in that competition than do so and win every time. The victories would feel pretty hollow.

Trian94

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Pirate skeleton is overperforming no doubt. I've seen the set save lives in PvP that shouldn't be saved. Literally keeps people in the fight when they're spent. Witnessed it countless times in no cp PvP and in cp PvP. People say "uhm but it has minor defile as a drawback". Sorry but if you rock lingering pots or have a major/minor healing buff the pirate skeleton healing debuff becomes next to nothing because any healing becomes so much more effective when you take so much less damage and I'm not taking healing cp into account. (I'm gonna leave shield stackers with bright throat + bloody mara or loaded infusion out of this on purpose cause there's no point) I'd say the best course of action is to remove major/ minor protection from sets or these sets from PvP, as well as any hard proc of healing and damage like earthgore, viper etc regardless of how powerful it is. PvP sets should be around stats and so should proc sets be. Even if this were to happen tho adjustments might be needed in certain sets.

It's easy to say remove protection from sets when you're maining a stam sorc - the class with the best mobility in this game. You know some classes can't just reach corners and LoS by using streak to close the gap..

So because other classes don't have stamsorc mobility they should be rocking a set that doesn't allow you (as one person) to bring them below 40% if they're half decent?

I've seen people pull solo or duo PvP without using that set on many classes and they were fine. This set is overperforming and it makes up for skill, period. People don't want it to go or get nerfed cause it makes them stupidly durable. I just hope it gets nerfed so I can watch them trying to git gud.