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Pirate Skeleton NEEDS adjustment
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.
I mostly use bloodspawn like the rest of cyro lol.
So get PS nerfed I could care less, just letting you know that's not the move here after learning how the dmg mitigation formula has change for block/shields/percentage based mitigation in 2018 which isnt really common knowledge.
And yet again avoiding the actual topic and not addressing any point discussed. Just another vague answer with no actual context or explanation. Seems like a trend. When you want to actually have a conversation and explain ur position with actual arguments which dont contradict each other hit me up. And no, just knowing the maths and listing them without understanding their context and how they relate to the point u are trying to make, isnt a compelling argument.1 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭i've used a few times in bg's. seems good but nothing better than the usual TK or Bloodspawn. all this hype - starting to get FOMO4 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ty for the answer. And that's what I thought. Recently, oblivion dmg was nerfed somewhat. But bleeds haven't changed. They ignore resists and can crit. One of the posters in this thread claiming that PS is op uses bleeds all the time. I wonder why?i've used a few times in bg's. seems good but nothing better than the usual TK or Bloodspawn. all this hype - starting to get FOMO
It’s a lot stronger in CP than in no CP. I swap back to bloodspawn for BGs.Edited by Thogard on June 3, 2019 7:40PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.
I mostly use bloodspawn like the rest of cyro lol.
So get PS nerfed I could care less, just letting you know that's not the move here after learning how the dmg mitigation formula has change for block/shields/percentage based mitigation in 2018 which isnt really common knowledge.
And yet again avoiding the actual topic and not addressing any point discussed. Just another vague answer with no actual context or explanation. Seems like a trend. When you want to actually have a conversation and explain ur position with actual arguments which dont contradict each other hit me up. And no, just knowing the maths and listing them without understanding their context and how they relate to the point u are trying to make, isnt a compelling argument.
lol so get it nerfed. 100% guaranteed you will still have a tank meta because of the mitigation I highlighted above.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭To nerf PS would mean I’d just slot bloodspawn which I already run on one stamplar. Swapping gear is just tedious.
Anyways, I don’t think PS makes the average player a threat, it’s people that know what they’re doing and have some idea of how mitigation works. If the issue with PS is tanks and healers using them then nerfing PS won’t solve anything, we’ve been in a tank meta since 2016. With the introduction of protective and things like the necro ult, I don’t see that changing for quite some time.
I mostly play by myself and use medium armor, so I need all the mitigation I can get, so sets like bloodspawn and PS are a no brainer.
If the goal is to stop the tank meta then the way mitigation can be stacked should be looked at and the amount of sources should be limited. Or simply add more counters to the game.1 -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭Nvm. It wasn’t nerfed — they just made it where you couldn’t cleanse the negative effect.Edited by khajiitNPC on June 4, 2019 12:24AM0
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭khajiitNPC wrote: »Nvm. It wasn’t nerfed — they just made it where you couldn’t cleanse the negative effect.
It was changed to proc only on health damage, not shields, as well. Putting an end to the sorc skeleton meta. There used to be tricks to proc it while shielded, but I'm not sure if that got patched.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The amount of players running around with the quest costume from Bergama (to prevent the PS proc to lock your bars) these days are getting out of hand. I'm more surprised when I'm not running into people with pirate skeleton at this point.....
Just adjust the duration or cooldown (maybe both??) so that the uptime on major protection isn't so high.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.
I mostly use bloodspawn like the rest of cyro lol.
So get PS nerfed I could care less, just letting you know that's not the move here after learning how the dmg mitigation formula has change for block/shields/percentage based mitigation in 2018 which isnt really common knowledge.
And yet again avoiding the actual topic and not addressing any point discussed. Just another vague answer with no actual context or explanation. Seems like a trend. When you want to actually have a conversation and explain ur position with actual arguments which dont contradict each other hit me up. And no, just knowing the maths and listing them without understanding their context and how they relate to the point u are trying to make, isnt a compelling argument.
lol so get it nerfed. 100% guaranteed you will still have a tank meta because of the mitigation I highlighted above.
But no one said that addressing PS will magically fix the tank meta. You just put words in my mouth again.
You dont seem to understand the concept of balance. Just because addressing one set or one ability isnt going to magically fix the game it doesnt mean that you should leave every single unbalanced set, ability, mechanic etc in the game. Thats also common sense.
According to you, ZOS shouldnt bother with performance at all on any scale because a couple changes here and there wont magically fix lag. Nicely done sir. Nicely done indeed.
Oh and btw its not about nerfing the set just for the sake of nerfing it. I dont have an issue with powerful sets although this one is indeed a little too powerful when you actually look at the example you provided. But if you are going to have very powerful sets in the game they should obviously have some limitations/promote skillful gameplay etc. When you are talking about the single most powerful defensive set in the game as you ranked it, you would actually expect something more than just slapping the damn thing on and forget it even exists for something like 80% uptime. Thats not healthy or balanced. Thats stupidity at its finest highlighting with a single set how dumbed down the game has become. Unfortunately there are a lot of sets like that highlighting that issue.Edited by pieratsos on June 4, 2019 6:52PM2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.
I mostly use bloodspawn like the rest of cyro lol.
So get PS nerfed I could care less, just letting you know that's not the move here after learning how the dmg mitigation formula has change for block/shields/percentage based mitigation in 2018 which isnt really common knowledge.
And yet again avoiding the actual topic and not addressing any point discussed. Just another vague answer with no actual context or explanation. Seems like a trend. When you want to actually have a conversation and explain ur position with actual arguments which dont contradict each other hit me up. And no, just knowing the maths and listing them without understanding their context and how they relate to the point u are trying to make, isnt a compelling argument.
lol so get it nerfed. 100% guaranteed you will still have a tank meta because of the mitigation I highlighted above.
But no one said that addressing PS will magically fix the tank meta. You just put words in my mouth again.
You dont seem to understand the concept of balance. Just because addressing one set or one ability isnt going to magically fix the game it doesnt mean that you should leave every single unbalanced set, ability, mechanic etc in the game. Thats also common sense.
According to you, ZOS shouldnt bother with performance at all on any scale because a couple changes here and there wont magically fix lag. Nicely done sir. Nicely done indeed.
Oh and btw its not about nerfing the set just for the sake of nerfing it. I dont have an issue with powerful sets although this one is indeed a little too powerful when you actually look at the example you provided. But if you are going to have very powerful sets in the game they should obviously have some limitations/promote skillful gameplay etc. When you are talking about the single most powerful defensive set in the game as you ranked it, you would actually expect something more than just slapping the damn thing on and forget it even exists for something like 80% uptime. Thats not healthy or balanced. Thats stupidity at its finest highlighting with a single set how dumbed down the game has become. Unfortunately there are a lot of sets like that highlighting that issue.
Well the fix to combat this larger tanky meta issue is:
- adjust block/shield/resists/major protection uptimes so people aren't getting large amounts of mitigation without drawbacks.
- as a result, adjust all dmg sources so that dmg is managable again through player skill not sets.
But all that requires work that might take years. What will happen, because we know ZOS wont touch anything unless it matches the DLC and thus earns them money:
- since vulnerabilities serve as the counter to protection, more sources of major vulnerability will come out. Next few DLC will have a PS style counter that give major vuln.
- block wont be touched, because they dont want to *** off their PVE crowd which gives more money.
- shields were already touched and made stronger through their subtractive nature after mitigation but before block. They likely wont adjust this for another year or 2 because they dont really mess with items they already changed. Save for little nerfs.
- dmg will remain high, because its flashy and it sells. Players will continue to find ways around this, but ultimately just end up zerging.
- or they just might end up battlespirit debuffing most of PVE for those that want it, and making pvp nCP across the board.
My bet is they will keep PS as is, add Major vuln to a monster set/5pc chapter set and then call it a day. Because that is the cheaper dev resource intensive option that only *** over pvp lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »NOPE.
If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!
I agree with this. After the huge nerf to shields based on your max health, this change does need to be reverted.1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gonna be real with you, I don't see the issue with pirate skeleton. It seems in line with the other useful defensive sets out there. The 1 pc is certainly strong giving 2 set bonuses but the 2 pc doesn't seem broken. Maybe I'm missing something here idk.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe this set has no effect for pve tanking but in pvp it completely outperform any other monster set and thus need some changes. Way of this set to grant of the strongest major buff with 80%+ uptime while also reduce effectiveness by minor defile simply not working. Minor defile is one of the most common debuffs in pvp and in addition stuff like necro heal that apply minor defile makes having this debuff not as downside of set to balance strong buff but as something you can full ignore or even turning cons into pros like it is going for necro heal. If set retain its mechanic - debuff should be changed into something actually valuable that cant be bypassed nor on CP nor on noCP.
In its current form there is literally no reason not to run this monster set in pvp unless you don't like to clutch on OP gear or hate it messy transform or don't like being skeleton for RP purposes. Set adds monstrous survivability in combination with any armor type, and while people trying to claim about "heavy armor meta" with this set you can go light/medium armor full glass-cannon builds without protective jewelry and not just have by far superior damage than in any combination of heavy armor setups but also by far superior mitigations that cant be achieved even with heavy armor passives in combination with mitigation sets like Swift. For heavy armor it allow to build on those pvp troll tanking builds that everyone likes.
But given from last AMA on reddit where zos fall into this agenda of "heavy armor meta" that actually ended with Morrowind, it seems they don't understand that mitigation bonuses >>> rest source of survivability, and thus hope that they will address balance between armor types properly and get rid of what cause imbalances like PS set, is low.5 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭On my mag sorc im doing better with a second one piece bonus that gives me resistance than the 2 piece bonus from piratesceleton.2 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't see Pirate Skeleton overperforming. If it is your only defensive set you are going to get killed the moment your luck runs out. And even when it procs, it is still not that much since there are multiple sources of damage mitigation and it is multiplicative, not additive.
Furthermore there is a huge visual cue when it procs so anyone with more than two brain cells will simply techarge his resources and wait with a burst combo when the proc ends.
Besides Bloodspawn is mathematically much better and somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".10 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
Edited by Zer0_CooL on June 5, 2019 10:05AM5 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
Exactly. Most nerf threads are results of ignorance, inexperience and simple saltiness.
I wouldn't blame youtubers though as they are usually viewed by people who actually want to improve. And the desire of improvement doesn't match the mindset of a nerf caller. Besides most youtubers I've seen were showing Blood Spawn as the best defensive set.6 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling." Lol
So many tears shed over not being able to two shot someone, dying, or just because they need to L2p.
Cx, if they think PS is OP they have no idea about anything in PvP, just how to cry a lot.
3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
Exactly. Most nerf threads are results of ignorance, inexperience and simple saltiness.
I wouldn't blame youtubers though as they are usually viewed by people who actually want to improve. And the desire of improvement doesn't match the mindset of a nerf caller. Besides most youtubers I've seen were showing Blood Spawn as the best defensive set.
I can only speak for myself when I see the 60-70%+ uptime in major protection in my combat metrics report after more or less any given fight in either BG´s or Cyrodil/IC. In terms of damage mitigation, bloodspawn isn't even close to pirate skeleton (bloodspawn in longer and more hectic fights will at best reach around 30-40% uptime)
And has it ever occurred, that all threads about nerfs/adjustments aren't unjustified??
Cinbri summarize the current situation with Pirate Skeleton quite well imo.2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭whatever you all decide, don't touch the 1pc resist. That is the more interesting aspect of the set because it equates 2x protective without having to spend alot of money. It opens up build diversity for those that see value in mix/match monster sets.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
Exactly. Most nerf threads are results of ignorance, inexperience and simple saltiness.
I wouldn't blame youtubers though as they are usually viewed by people who actually want to improve. And the desire of improvement doesn't match the mindset of a nerf caller. Besides most youtubers I've seen were showing Blood Spawn as the best defensive set.
I can only speak for myself when I see the 60-70%+ uptime in major protection in my combat metrics report after more or less any given fight in either BG´s or Cyrodil/IC. In terms of damage mitigation, bloodspawn isn't even close to pirate skeleton (bloodspawn in longer and more hectic fights will at best reach around 30-40% uptime)
And has it ever occurred, that all threads about nerfs/adjustments aren't unjustified??
Cinbri summarize the current situation with Pirate Skeleton quite well imo.
so you had 70% uptime on a 30% non-additive reduction to damage. that means you also had a 70% uptime on a 15% reduction to heals.
focus your efforts where the true issue lies. that is the problem with this thread. if you are saying the 70% uptime on a 15% reduction to healing is trivial... that speaks volumes about healing as a problem in this game.
btw - this doesn't happen in no-cp. because healing, while still absurd, isn't gamebreaking and this set becomes inline with other competing offensive and defensive sets.
this entire thread has only clearly articulated one thing - healing is broken as a 15% reduction in healing apparently is trivial to all crutch point players.
/end thread3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »... somehow I don't see people complaining about it or calling it "cheese".
It's because some people cant hanldle getting killed. Then they see a youtube video of someone praising this set as "op" and suddenly they have an excuse everytime they're getting wiped by an other player runing around as skeleton.
Exactly. Most nerf threads are results of ignorance, inexperience and simple saltiness.
I wouldn't blame youtubers though as they are usually viewed by people who actually want to improve. And the desire of improvement doesn't match the mindset of a nerf caller. Besides most youtubers I've seen were showing Blood Spawn as the best defensive set.
I can only speak for myself when I see the 60-70%+ uptime in major protection in my combat metrics report after more or less any given fight in either BG´s or Cyrodil/IC. In terms of damage mitigation, bloodspawn isn't even close to pirate skeleton (bloodspawn in longer and more hectic fights will at best reach around 30-40% uptime)
And has it ever occurred, that all threads about nerfs/adjustments aren't unjustified??
Cinbri summarize the current situation with Pirate Skeleton quite well imo.
so you had 70% uptime on a 30% non-additive reduction to damage. that means you also had a 70% uptime on a 15% reduction to heals.
focus your efforts where the true issue lies. that is the problem with this thread. if you are saying the 70% uptime on a 15% reduction to healing is trivial... that speaks volumes about healing as a problem in this game.
btw - this doesn't happen in no-cp. because healing, while still absurd, isn't gamebreaking and this set becomes inline with other competing offensive and defensive sets.
this entire thread has only clearly articulated one thing - healing is broken as a 15% reduction in healing apparently is trivial to all crutch point players.
/end thread
to add to this,healing CP stars and the offensive stats it gives for free. I should play nCP more lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭Maybe this set has no effect for pve tanking but in pvp it completely outperform any other monster set and thus need some changes. Way of this set to grant of the strongest major buff with 80%+ uptime while also reduce effectiveness by minor defile simply not working. Minor defile is one of the most common debuffs in pvp and in addition stuff like necro heal that apply minor defile makes having this debuff not as downside of set to balance strong buff but as something you can full ignore or even turning cons into pros like it is going for necro heal. If set retain its mechanic - debuff should be changed into something actually valuable that cant be bypassed nor on CP nor on noCP.
In its current form there is literally no reason not to run this monster set in pvp unless you don't like to clutch on OP gear or hate it messy transform or don't like being skeleton for RP purposes. Set adds monstrous survivability in combination with any armor type, and while people trying to claim about "heavy armor meta" with this set you can go light/medium armor full glass-cannon builds without protective jewelry and not just have by far superior damage than in any combination of heavy armor setups but also by far superior mitigations that cant be achieved even with heavy armor passives in combination with mitigation sets like Swift. For heavy armor it allow to build on those pvp troll tanking builds that everyone likes.
But given from last AMA on reddit where zos fall into this agenda of "heavy armor meta" that actually ended with Morrowind, it seems they don't understand that mitigation bonuses >>> rest source of survivability, and thus hope that they will address balance between armor types properly and get rid of what cause imbalances like PS set, is low.
to be honest i don't understand why everyone here focused at PS and any mention about Steadfast Hero, which gives 50% of uptime of the same Buff easy at the moment when u need it without any debuffs built in like in Pirate Skeleton...I feel it much more stronger option than this monster setEdited by JusticeSouldier on June 5, 2019 4:10PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭whatever you all decide, don't touch the 1pc resist. That is the more interesting aspect of the set because it equates 2x protective without having to spend alot of money. It opens up build diversity for those that see value in mix/match monster sets.
I think we're good. If you look at the trend, DLC sets are offering multiple 1 piece bonuses (Chudan, Zaan, Domihaus to name a few).Edited by brandonv516 on June 5, 2019 6:13PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »whatever you all decide, don't touch the 1pc resist. That is the more interesting aspect of the set because it equates 2x protective without having to spend alot of money. It opens up build diversity for those that see value in mix/match monster sets.
I think we're good. If you look at the trend, DLC sets are offering multiple 1 piece bonuses (Chudan, Zaan, Domihaus to name a few).
we might see a buff in that area if they change the major protection at all (earthgore went from 2% to 4% to account for the changes it received). So a reduction isnt out of the equation here if they decide MP nerf isnt enough. That is my worry, because it messes with build diversity a bit.
Same issue with swift, though only jewel traits.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0
