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Pirate Skeleton NEEDS adjustment
-
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
How is incap/soul harvest effecting that? The 20% modifier?
It's considered a Vulnerability. So it's subtracting 20% from 30%. So basically it's turning this monster set into buffer of the Swift tooltip lol
That's actually really broken because buffer of the Swift alone is a really good set as is. Every class also doesn't have access to death stroke. To have two strong offensive debuffs like death stroke and minor vulnerability that you have to proactively apply be cancelled out by one monster set that passively procs is broken. It's also not factoring in your other sets or defensive abilities.2 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only way pirate skelly isn’t stupidly OP this patch is if the person using it has no idea how to play their own character.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp3 -
Luminide✭✭I wouldn't mind a bit of an increase to the cooldown if they fix the bar swap glitching first.
Having to use a disguise just to get a set to work properly is stupid.
Half the time I've decided to ditch the set on builds where it would work well just because the screwed up bar swap would get me killed.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't mind a bit of an increase to the cooldown if they fix the bar swap glitching first.
Having to use a disguise just to get a set to work properly is stupid.
Half the time I've decided to ditch the set on builds where it would work well just because the screwed up bar swap would get me killed.
That small glitch is about the only thing that keeps this set somewhat balanced0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong or useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.Edited by pieratsos on June 2, 2019 12:14AM2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I missed a lot apparently.
First the Kena comment was just for the whole"where's my offensive set that is skele equivalent"
Just saying there's a set that functions as you described (whomever said it)
Next I have no idea how Skele is over-performing UNLESS you're comparing total mitigation derived from a single source post update to a source of mitigation facing old diminishing returns
- Even then the total mitigation provided was more pre update than the single source post update.
Tldr: 30% mitigation is the same no matter the source(s)2 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.
The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.
Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understand how insane and how powerful ps is.Edited by pieratsos on June 2, 2019 9:07AM1 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.
The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.
Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.
'But look at my tooltips! I'm so potent'
PC EU - DC only0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.Edited by pieratsos on June 2, 2019 4:36PM2 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.
The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.
Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.
Absolutely spot on on both points. Major/Minor Protection only exacerbate already high physical and spell resistance, and the lower those stats are on an opponent the less of an effect Protection buffs have on a fight. If you're running low resists, pirate skeleton or any other source of Major Protection won't make much of a difference. And nerfing Pirate Skeleton would just make defensive oriented sets more attractive and the "problem" would be the same.
In addition, I run pirate skeleton as a magplar. Were it to be nerfed to the point it'd no longer viable in PvP, I would just switch to Bloodspawn (which offers higher Physical and Spell Resistrance than PS ), which would make animation cancelling Remembrance for Major Protection to go on the offensive more viable and attractive with the ulti gen, or replace PS with an offensive monster set and go Steadfast Hero for another source of Major Protection and the same Spell and Physical Resistance bonus with additional health.
I feel the real issue being brought up in this thread is the insane amount of defense one could build for even while wearing light armor, using the Protective trait on jewels and using nay kind of defensive set along with SnB provides extremely strong defense, which leads to it's obvious counterplay, and that's your spot-on second point.
Spell/weapon damage is only of secondary importance in PVP and has been a while. Building your pen up to its cap will provide way more damage and be much more effective in a tankier meta than boosting your damage stats up for your UESP build editor screenshots.1 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So half of you say it’s not OP and half says it is.....we need Sherlock Holmes. Only he can find the truth!Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!1 -
killahsin✭✭✭In pvp anything and any build that can ever be considered effective is classified as OP and in need of a nerf. This is the community ZOS has socially engineered, fostered, and catered to with their design philosophy. This is why rotations and design limits get shorter and shorter and shorter as the game progresses, because the game is going to nerf itself out of existence. Buffs and procs that last microseconds for the win.Edited by killahsin on June 2, 2019 5:07PM4
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Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭In pvp anything and any build that can ever be considered effective is classified as OP and in need of a nerf. This is the community ZOS has socially engineered, fostered, and catered to with their design philosophy. This is why rotations and design limits get shorter and shorter and shorter as the game progresses, because the game is going to nerf itself out of existence. Buffs and procs that last microseconds for the win.
Exactly this.
Something performs well, people complain, it get's nerfed and so they move on to the next best thing but since that's the next best thing people complain again and the cycle repeats.3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.Edited by pieratsos on June 2, 2019 5:29PM0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think people are factoring in how all the mitigation sources are calculated once they are combined. On a dps build it’s just an added source of mitigation, I’ve been running a source of major protection for awhile on my stamplar(s). And played around with mitigation sources for some time.
The issue with mitigation has nothing to do with pirate Skeleton, the person you’re fighting is probably already tanky. It’s not that hard to reach cap for resistance and throw in other mitigation sources, my stam dk is 1k from cap without trying to build for it. Now combine resistance, block , cp, minor/major protection and we start to see a problem. Ps. the more sources of mitigation you use the more watered down it becomes.
Honestly my advice is to build for penetration, this is probably the most underrated yet OP stat in pvp but everyone likes flashy stats. Penetration will make you hit like a truck because it’s like the person has on no armor.
Absolutely spot on on both points. Major/Minor Protection only exacerbate already high physical and spell resistance, and the lower those stats are on an opponent the less of an effect Protection buffs have on a fight. If you're running low resists, pirate skeleton or any other source of Major Protection won't make much of a difference. And nerfing Pirate Skeleton would just make defensive oriented sets more attractive and the "problem" would be the same.
In addition, I run pirate skeleton as a magplar. Were it to be nerfed to the point it'd no longer viable in PvP, I would just switch to Bloodspawn (which offers higher Physical and Spell Resistrance than PS ), which would make animation cancelling Remembrance for Major Protection to go on the offensive more viable and attractive with the ulti gen, or replace PS with an offensive monster set and go Steadfast Hero for another source of Major Protection and the same Spell and Physical Resistance bonus with additional health.
I feel the real issue being brought up in this thread is the insane amount of defense one could build for even while wearing light armor, using the Protective trait on jewels and using nay kind of defensive set along with SnB provides extremely strong defense, which leads to it's obvious counterplay, and that's your spot-on second point.
Spell/weapon damage is only of secondary importance in PVP and has been a while. Building your pen up to its cap will provide way more damage and be much more effective in a tankier meta than boosting your damage stats up for your UESP build editor screenshots.
Yeah it’s not PS it’s the insane amount of mitigation sources that are able to be combined right now. Block is a big issue too. The problem I see with these nerfs or potential nerfs is the fact it doesn’t do anything to the people that abuse them , it just hurts those that don’t. Tanky people will remain tanky and a large part of that is because damage is so high, which I think a lot of people forget. Zos could probably limit how many mitigation sources can be combined to alleviate some of the problems but again I don’t think it would work in the favor of the non abusers.
As far as pen I think it’s the best solution right now, find a sweet spot for damage and then stack pen. Anyone that’s not build to be tanky will melt and those that are tanky get reduced to medium armor. Throw in bleeds and you’re looking at a really cancerous player.
The other day I noticed I took someone from 100 to 0 (29k health) in 3-4 secs on my stamplar and they had shuffle active. This is because even with shuffle he/she had to take the majority of my damage regardless of weapon damage.
2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a few questions:
1) Do bleeds ignore resists?
2) Do bleeds ignore minor or major protection?
3) Can bleeds crit?2 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭I'd say buff it by fixing that animation bug already that forces you to use that stupid disguise.2
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maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ty for the answer. And that's what I thought. Recently, oblivion dmg was nerfed somewhat. But bleeds haven't changed. They ignore resists and can crit. One of the posters in this thread claiming that PS is op uses bleeds all the time. I wonder why?4 -
RighteousBacon✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »NOPE.
If anything, this set needs buffs, not nerfs. It's way past time that they reverted the dumb nerf to mag sorcs that keep us from enjoying this set. They need to make it so it procs on ANY damage again, not just damage to health!
Nah magsorc doesn’t need the help rn7 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.Edited by pieratsos on June 3, 2019 5:41PM0 -
EdoKeledus✭✭✭The only thing ZOS should do about this set is to remove this bugged transformation. It's very frustrating to not be able to bar swap and wear an ugly outfit to avoid the bug.(PvP issue)
Please ZOS remove the transformation and add something else.DC PC EU Vivec
Daggerfall Convenant Loyalist7 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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*Facepalm*. Lmao.Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
Not sure how to even respond to that. Following ur logic then everything is balanced, broken and useless at the same time.
It is. We found out we are in soft caps 2.0 lol. Most of these defense sets are like 43-60% total mitigation; but what will win is if your build isn't some potatoe one with derp stats.
Still not sure what you are trying to say. What i meant is that following ur logic you are really not getting anywhere cause you are basically creating scenarios to suit ur point. Under these circumstances i can make numerous arguments about all abilities and make them look strong and useless depending on my agenda.
And even if i were to actually follow that example you gave me you are still wrong. You literally just told me that your 2 piece slap on and forget set with ridiculously high uptime is marginally better than the effects of one ability and one ult combined together with low uptime and thats from the class that is designed for single target dmg. I hope you understand how insane that sounds.
So basically even the extreme scenario you created to make PS look weaker, still failed and the only thing that it actually shows is the exact opposite. How freaking strong it is with almost no input from the user other than just putting on the set and adjusting his build a bit to have more healing. Which actually highlights one of the biggest issues with combat. Abilities and skill matter much less than the sets you are wearing.
P.S. Dunno what you are trying to say about softcaps either. If we had softcaps in PVP half of the issues would solve themselves and at this point i highly doubt that there is any other solution other than reintroducing some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check.
Created scenario? I literally just passed you updated information on how the game mitigates DMG post summerset which impacts how strong these sets really are.
I guess some players can abuse it, but I know based on the math that isn't not PS, it's block/shield/battlespirit.
Yes you created a scenario. You attempted to showcase the effectiveness of the set with a very specific and biased example.
And even at that it still failed. Go back and read the bolded text to understan how d how insane and how powerful ps is.
It's not biased, that's how the mitigation weeks now lol.
It's no different than steadfast, or any other protection source with armor buffs. So should MP be deleted altogether? Nope, because they changed how Vulnerability interacts with these mitigation sources.
The main strength of PS is you get steadfast in 2pc instead of 5pc. But if think you are going to be immune with just PS, you don't know Mitigation in this game lol.
Seriously. Is reading really that hard for you? You literally dont read anything and repeat the same things over and over again like a broken record.
Its biased not because the numbers are off. Thats not what biased means. Its biased because your example is cherry picked to suit ur point.
And its so dumb to the point where it fails even at that. Im sorry but if you actually believe that its ok for a 2 piece slap on and forget set to be countering abilities and ultimates combined then you shouldnt be anywhere near a balance discussion.
Guess you'll have to wait and see if you don't want to do the testing yourself. Slot only PS without blocking and see how much you'll fair. You'll go back to block with bloodspawn or shield with engine guardian almost instantly
Test what exactly lol. You are literally off topic. You basically didnt read anything for once more and repeated the same nonsense which isnt even the topic i was addressing. No point trying to have a conversation with you.
Ok so how will you"fix" PS? Cooldown? Even though steadfast has a lesser cooldown and is still strong? Drop the mitigation to minor protection? But that would make the set useless since you can get 100100% uptime on minor off psijic ult lol.
Honestly you aren't listening when I'm saying that the mitigation equation has changed since we all last understood it. Did you also know that block mitigation sources are now additive to reach other? No you probably didn't, otherwise you would have seen what I'm talking about because you can get 78% on just a few skill selections+holding block. But hey whatever, scapegoat pirate Skeleton that doesn't even have offense but you get 50% from battlespirit and then another 50+8+8+20 from snb block lol without trading any of your sets so you could go 3x offense.
You are the one not listening. Stay on the topic and the actual discussion. The "fix" to PS and how mitigation mechanics work or how easy/hard it is to stack mitigation is an entirely different discussion.
The discussion is PS as a set and how strong it is. Im not using PS as a scape goat. Stop putting words in my mouth because you didnt think ur argument well enough. You are the one who provided the example to show how much mitigation it gives. Not me. You literally said that it can counteract the effects of one abilitiy and an ult combined of the class that is designed for single target dmg and the uptime of those effects isnt even remotely close to the uptime of PS. Thats not scape goating. Thats facing reality. Not my problem that you didnt think it well enough and proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove.
As far as mitigation and how easy it is to stack them, i literally have no idea what ur point is. If its so easy to stack them then ud think that a set which gives so easily that much mitigation would actually be problematic. No? I mean, thats common sense. Do you seriously dont understand that?
Also you contradict urself with ur latest post. First you said that you are dying in ur PS in an attempt to diminish its power, but now suddenly you can go full dmg with 3 offensive sets while maintaining ridiculous mitigation. lol.
Yeah, ok mate. How about you make up ur mind. Pick an argument and stick to it and try to back it up. And this time try to use common sense. At this point you are all over the place contradicting your own arguments and putting words in my mouth because the reality is that you actually know how strong PS since you ranked it the highest of all defensive sets, you use it because its that strong and you just dont want ZOS to take ur toys away.
Would be nice if you tried to leave ur bias aside and actually think for a moment.
I mostly use bloodspawn like the rest of cyro lol.
So get PS nerfed I could care less, just letting you know that's not the move here after learning how the dmg mitigation formula has change for block/shields/percentage based mitigation in 2018 which isnt really common knowledge.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: ».Pirate skeleton is easily one of the most broken sets in the game. 810 cp points makes the 15% defile more or less irrelevant on the classes that are most problematic with this set on. Needs an uptime nerf or a rework.
In practice, the downtime on this set in a real pvp encounter (even a 1v1) is generally no more than 3-5 seconds between procs. The counter play to the set would be to burst them during this window, but it is far too short currently to utilize this counter play efficiently. The set should have something like a 20 second cooldown with its 12 second duration, as this would create a feasible window to burst the user without making the set useless (still a potential 50%+uptime on one of the strongest buffs in the game). People that argue the set is fine the way it is, where is my major berserk 2pc set with this sort of uptime? If that existed, people would rage. It is very clear that the majority of eso's playerbase is heavily in favor of more healing and mitigation options than damage ones.
Kena.
Your damage is increased and so is your cost. Just like pirate you take less damage but heal for less
Not even remotely the same. The drawback of kena is much more severe and major protection is better than the dmg u get from kena.
minor defile is still potent. Only issue is that there really isnt another way to go around the cost increase of kena without dropping 5pc sets or jewel enchants but you can go around the debuff on heal crits.
But none of that is PS's fault lol.
The two sets are not even remotely comparable and its not just because one of them is outdated. Defile potency can be alleviated through bumping ur healing a bit which isnt really hard and its effect is also dramatically diminished by major protection itself since you take less dmg and you need less healing.
Kena is actually the exact opposite. Cost increase cannot really be alleviated in any easy way without gimping ur build and the cost increase is also dramatically diminishing the effect u get from kena since if you cant really cast any abilities then u dont really benefit from dmg increase. The two effects (dmg increase vs major protection) are not even remotely comparable either. Protection is by far better. The design of the sets and what they actually promote is also vastly different. One of them promotes micromanagement risk reward skill based gameplay while the other promotes a slap on and forget dumbed down gameplay which actually shows the difference between PVP back in the day and now.
The two sets are night and day difference and its not really because kena is useless but because PS is hilariously stronger and easier to use highlighting what PVP has become.
Lol well I die allot in pirate so idk who you all are fighting but it's not pirate.
Protection is going to be only 2% mitigation after incap+vulnerability.
How is incap/soul harvest effecting that? The 20% modifier?
It's considered a Vulnerability. So it's subtracting 20% from 30%. So basically it's turning this monster set into buffer of the Swift tooltip lol
That's actually really broken because buffer of the Swift alone is a really good set as is. Every class also doesn't have access to death stroke. To have two strong offensive debuffs like death stroke and minor vulnerability that you have to proactively apply be cancelled out by one monster set that passively procs is broken. It's also not factoring in your other sets or defensive abilities.
yea maybe not everyone has a 70-120 cost ult that turns PS into buffer of the swift, but potentially morag tong + minor vuln turns it into 18% and wearwolf fear completely removes its bonus to zero.
And other flipside, if the player was running buffer instead of PS, you will have turned that 5pc bonus into a 2% mitigation if only using minor vulnerability (which is most of cyro running master shock staffs and why that setup is potent), with the nightblade getting 18% dmg buff against all buffer of the swift setups, if they run incap.
This change in mitigation goes beyond PS, I cant wait to see how it impacts everything because we havent had a shakeup like this in a long time lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1
