Rebuttal to “top tier pvpers griefing”

electromagnets

A M E N

SkysOutThizeOut

@Alucardo is totally right @Metafae when people call for help in zone chat I’ll run in to try and save the day because I want good fights. But if no one calls me in, I gravitate to where I know the most amount of players will be.

Streega

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@Kadoin lol I feel ya man. Same boat with those roll dodges or getting stuck in sprint and going right off.

@Anotherone773 you said “griefers,” it’s called pvpers. I no longer try to say zergs are griefing me because they won’t let me 1vX... it’s part of cyro.

@Streega I’m not a nb and because I “hurt” feelings for killing you in a pvp zone because your chasing after some “collectible” that is extremely insignificant makes me the ***. The guy playing the game of PvP is the *** becaue you entered the PvP area and your feelings got hurt because you were made to PvP.

@Metafae exactly. Ran into this tank that was there to quest. Did no damage but was unkillable by all accounts. I said “good on ya, good day, and good luck.” That person came in prepared. They used the time they knew of the event to prepare for the pvp zone and so they earned the ability to quest in peace. They were a benefit to their fellow questers when they tied me up for 10 minutes until I got zerged down, which I did not complain about. That is a smart tactic. But when I went back... I made sure not to waste attack’s on that hero of the questers.

Did you even read all the words that I wrote? There's noting about NBs there. I know it's complicated, maybe because I'm not a native speaker - I hope this will help: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ganking
If you want to talk about "feelings", the only thing that I feel about you is a reminiscence of old, stinky beef I had to throw out not so long ago. Looked so nice and fresh in the package, but almost made me puke when I opened it and took a closer look.
Oh, btw: that tank Metafae was talking about could be me. I don't care about the outfits, I was just assisting my guildies who want to have it, so I wasted the gankers time while my buddies talked to the quest givers. Of course I was killed eventually, but it was worth it - you should see those idiots chasing me around XD

MazzarattiMama

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

Toxic pver’s, farmers, and housing people all talk down and belittle pvpers when they try to show interest in those things. You don’t just let the new pvpers into your trials, they have to meet a litany of requirements or dps tests and even then... but it’s understandable, because that’s the content. Same can be said for PvP

And now you knowingly enter the domain that is pvp to farm for items to earn a fake outfit. And you want it handed to you, you want it freely, you don’t want to earn it. You don’t want to learn how to survive, to learn how to pvp. You don’t plan to come back. You are just entering this zone to feed an addiction. A zone that has litttle to offer, besides an experience that many of us enjoy. Then you call us “griefers” because you chose to enter our area and don’t want to play the game you entered.

You pvers don’t want to pvp. If you did you wouldn’t pvdoor zerg the map and saturate it so that it’s all one color and one faction pop locked. If you wanted to pvp you wouldn’t attempt to jump off cliffs or towers to prevent a pvper from the killing blow. Climb the tower in crops and attempt to jump off rather than fight to only learn you can’t jump off that tower... lol you never planned to pvp at all...

You don’t have to pvp to get top tier pve gear. PvPers have to pve to get the best pvp gear though and we have to earn it and figure it out. You are coming here for an item you may never even use.

We will take advantage of the opportunity to earn easy ap, to see how many bad pvers it takes to bring us down, and to kill as many as we can with the best kdr we can because we are playing for an experience.

Just like we pvpers don’t get a free ride in your trials, you’ll not get a free ride in our campaigns, where the name of the game is Player vs Player.

No. You are wrong in your rebuttal. What the original person posted about the anniversary event in Cyrodiil has nothing to do with pve activities except for the player who probably is inexperienced in pvp. They, and every other player got an invitation from ESO to partake in the event in Cyrodiil. This event is a prime opportunity for less mature players, players sitting in jail or prison who have criminal minds, players who in real life revel in hurting others not as powerful as them, or just players who like to bully and are likely bullies in real life to control the situation and prevent others from their achievement and happiness. As to your written response: "We will take advantage of the opportunity to earn easy ap..." If you're so good, why camp at the towns? Is it because you can't 1v1? or zerg yourself? Can't you take a resource by yourself? Cause, imo, these easy ap you speak of are far less in ap value than taking a keep, resource, or town, which gives thousands in ap rather than a few hundred. No, you are not right, not when pvp is supposed to be about armies, and battles, and tactical operation, and use of good skill especially in groups to win the crown and scrolls. I do not see skill in a single nightblade or group of them using poisonous arrow while being invisible, to kill players. That's just cowardly. And, it happens alot, and not just during these events. Zos should make changes to this event if they have it in Crodiil again, like a questing sigil or something, making the questor unable to be killed by players. That won't happen though. The best solution is for players from all factions to respect other players during these events and leave the questors alone.

SkysOutThizeOut

@MazzarattiMama apply whatever characteristic you need to, to justify your belittlement. And 1 person is worth 2k if they haven’t died recently. 10 people are 20k ap and that only takes minutes. Compared to 1.5k for a resource or 6k for a keep. I think 1v15s are a fun rare challenge because I understand I’m not going to 1v15 any other time. I view the opportunity as to 1vX these players as a limited time only trial. And I get I’m lucky to 1v2 good players and lucky to 1v3/4 average players. Yeah... so much easier to try to take keeps to farm ap... when 3 players are worth 1 keep. [edited to remove unnecessary political commentary]

Hippie4927

Alucardo wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I was thinking people could use this as an opportunity to hire mercenaries to protect you while you quest, just pay some good PVP players to give you safe passage.

You don't need to. We're always looking for a good small scale fight. Just type in zone chat there is people griefing you and someone will come running.

All this nonsense in the towns is keeping pvp'ers from helping with actual PVP. This morning in Shor, we captured the Scroll of Ghartok and attempted to return it where it belongs. We were overcome by AD. We asked for help in zone chat but everyone was too busy at Chey trying to run out the 'griefers'. I don't think town questers should be the priority. JMO!

MazzarattiMama

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@MazzarattiMama apply whatever characteristic you need to, to justify your belittlement. And 1 person is worth 2k if they haven’t died recently. 10 people are 20k ap and that only takes minutes. Compared to 1.5k for a resource or 6k for a keep. I think 1v15s are a fun rare challenge because I understand I’m not going to 1v15 any other time. I view the opportunity as to 1vX these players as a limited time only trial. And I get I’m lucky to 1v2 good players and lucky to 1v3/4 average players. Yeah... so much easier to try to take keeps to farm ap... when 3 players are worth 1 keep. Some reason I feel like every person complaining about being killed in a pvp zone and trying to villafy pvpers as less than human vote Democrat...

I could care less what you think. And this is why; what others think is inconsequential to you.

VaranisArano

Enkil wrote: »

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@Enkil unfair? You must not understand how pvp works...

The topic of that thread u are rebutting is geared PvPers going to towns and camping them in numbers so that ungeared, unskilled, new to PvP players are killed almost instantly and cannot even complete what they have originally set out to do. Often it’s involved exploiting the fact there is a loading screen on entering...

Griefing is not PvP!

Mmm. Actually, that thing you call "griefing" is PVP.

It's player vs player in all its forms.

As a PVPer, getting ganked off your horse and dying before you can respond because you are too squishy is part of PVP.

As a PVPer, freezing in the middle of a keep take due to a loading screen or a disconnect and getting killed is part of PVP.

As a PVPer, dying on a doorway that wont let you in, while rezzing at a camp, or stuck on textures is part of PVP.

We die, helplessly or fighting, just like these PVEers do.

In my first experience with PVP, fishing and getting ganked. Most of the time, I just died. Once, I survived long enough to fight back, and I won, because a vampire picked the fight with my MagDK. I came for the fish, but I never expected to get a free pass or blamed the PVPers for doing PVP in a PVP zone.

"Ungeared, unskilled, new to PVP players" do not get a free pass in PVP. They willingly queued up for a PVP zone, and it is foolishness on their part to come to a PVP zone unprepared for PVP.

Unlike overland questing, PVP is not the sort of content you can show up to "ungeared and unprepared" and expect to survive.

"Griefing"?

Its not griefing to kill someone who willingly queued up for a PVP zone and who has every opportunity to prepare for PVP, just because they have chosen not to take advantage of that opportunity.

I think part of the problem is simply mental preparation, in addition to gear. It's a PVP zone. Accept that PVP is going to happen, and accept that if you don't actually prepare for PVP, you are going to die. A lot. Not because someone is griefing you, but because that's just how PVP works.

SkysOutThizeOut

MazzarattiMama wrote: »

I could care less what you think. And this is why; what others think is inconsequential to you.

And this is why what others think is inconsequential to you.

No one attacked you, your values, your character, or attempted to belittle you. What you read was an explanation, an opinion... but you attacked pvpers in your previous comment, attacked our character because we play the name of the game, player vs player. Forums is meant for discussion not assault on character. I may not seem civil killing you cyrodiil where it’s deemed appropriate by ZOS, but at least I know how to be civil here.

VaranisArano

MazzarattiMama wrote: »

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

Toxic pver’s, farmers, and housing people all talk down and belittle pvpers when they try to show interest in those things. You don’t just let the new pvpers into your trials, they have to meet a litany of requirements or dps tests and even then... but it’s understandable, because that’s the content. Same can be said for PvP

And now you knowingly enter the domain that is pvp to farm for items to earn a fake outfit. And you want it handed to you, you want it freely, you don’t want to earn it. You don’t want to learn how to survive, to learn how to pvp. You don’t plan to come back. You are just entering this zone to feed an addiction. A zone that has litttle to offer, besides an experience that many of us enjoy. Then you call us “griefers” because you chose to enter our area and don’t want to play the game you entered.

You pvers don’t want to pvp. If you did you wouldn’t pvdoor zerg the map and saturate it so that it’s all one color and one faction pop locked. If you wanted to pvp you wouldn’t attempt to jump off cliffs or towers to prevent a pvper from the killing blow. Climb the tower in crops and attempt to jump off rather than fight to only learn you can’t jump off that tower... lol you never planned to pvp at all...

You don’t have to pvp to get top tier pve gear. PvPers have to pve to get the best pvp gear though and we have to earn it and figure it out. You are coming here for an item you may never even use.

We will take advantage of the opportunity to earn easy ap, to see how many bad pvers it takes to bring us down, and to kill as many as we can with the best kdr we can because we are playing for an experience.

Just like we pvpers don’t get a free ride in your trials, you’ll not get a free ride in our campaigns, where the name of the game is Player vs Player.

No. You are wrong in your rebuttal. What the original person posted about the anniversary event in Cyrodiil has nothing to do with pve activities except for the player who probably is inexperienced in pvp. They, and every other player got an invitation from ESO to partake in the event in Cyrodiil. This event is a prime opportunity for less mature players, players sitting in jail or prison who have criminal minds, players who in real life revel in hurting others not as powerful as them, or just players who like to bully and are likely bullies in real life to control the situation and prevent others from their achievement and happiness. As to your written response: "We will take advantage of the opportunity to earn easy ap..." If you're so good, why camp at the towns? Is it because you can't 1v1? or zerg yourself? Can't you take a resource by yourself? Cause, imo, these easy ap you speak of are far less in ap value than taking a keep, resource, or town, which gives thousands in ap rather than a few hundred. No, you are not right, not when pvp is supposed to be about armies, and battles, and tactical operation, and use of good skill especially in groups to win the crown and scrolls. I do not see skill in a single nightblade or group of them using poisonous arrow while being invisible, to kill players. That's just cowardly. And, it happens alot, and not just during these events. Zos should make changes to this event if they have it in Crodiil again, like a questing sigil or something, making the questor unable to be killed by players. That won't happen though. The best solution is for players from all factions to respect other players during these events and leave the questors alone.

A. ZOS designed Cyrodiil as a PVP zone which includes quests that are extremely simple because the threat is those quests is supposed to come from other players. Many of those quests take you to delves, where killing thw boss grants you an Alliance War buff to AP gain, commonly used by emperor candidates. Three of those towns have Alliance War flags amd now transit spots to increase the chance for conflict. The other two towns lie directly along the path for scroll runners, and are close to other objective. All enemy players are worth AP, and thus are worthy targeta in their own right. The threat of PVP is built into those quests on many levels.

B. PVP is simply Player vs Player. Its common for people to belittle other player's "skill" because they spin2win, gank, bomb, 1vX, use pets, use cloak, whatever. None of the belittling or insults makes those any less valid as a form of player vs player.

C. Many of us enjoy PVP in the sense that it is a game. Everyone who is in Cyrodiil queued up willingly, knowing its a PVP zone.

We aren't actually hurting anyone when we kill their characters. No one hurts us when they kill our characters. As a PVPer, I've been ganked, killed in loading screens, died with no chance to fight back, been killed when rezzing on a camp, etc. Its a game - a game where I'm dying to other players rather than NPC bosses. Like with most games, I might gripe a bit when I lose, but then I laugh at myself. I certainly don't say someone is bullying me if I lose again and again at a game I'm willingly continuing to play.



If you feel bullied by PVPers fighting questers, consider that those questers willing queued up for a PVP zone, to do quests where the threat is intended to come from PVP, quests who's objectives often cross or involve PVP objectives, and the simple fact that every enemy player is intended to be a target.

Its fine if you don't enjoy PVP as intended. But PVP in the towns and quests is in fact PVP as intended.

Janoy

The number of players who REFUSE to fight, who just lay down and die, baffles me. If you come to Cyro, at least TRY to PvP. You might actually like it!

frostz417

LOVE this post

InvictusApollo

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

This is a better rebutal
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/470157/dear-pvers

Thank you kind Sir or Madam

Alucardo wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I was thinking people could use this as an opportunity to hire mercenaries to protect you while you quest, just pay some good PVP players to give you safe passage.

You don't need to. We're always looking for a good small scale fight. Just type in zone chat there is people griefing you and someone will come running.

I'd be the first one galloping to help!

By the way, do you know what I find strange? There are so many carebear guilds for PvErs. Personally I'm at least in two of these. Why don't they just make an event and have experienced PvPers guard the PvErs?

Kartalin

To all the PVEers, here's something else that hasn't been said much. When you come to one of the three pre-existing vet campaigns and clog up our queues and take up valuable space in a limited population to run around the edges of the map, the people still trying to play the campaign are kind of at a loss. In Sotha Sil we'd be trying to dethrone an opposing emperor and not only are we unable to muster enough numbers to accomplish this, we end up losing a lot of territory because it seems like there's only a few people actually trying to defend anything. We start to wonder where is this pop-locked faction of ours and what are they doing -- and none of the opposing tri-keeps are yellow so we know they're not f-ing around there like usual -- and we realize that the "PVP" portion of the event has started. So from our point of view this PVP event is just regular PVPers being f-ed over by PVEers running around trying to do PVE in a regularly contested campaign (at least in primetime). So I hope you'll understand if occasionally we'll blow off some steam by cleaning out the towns.

I'm not going to try to defend abusing the door mechanic, that is pretty questionable. Not that we didn't use to do that all the time with tower farms back in the day lol.

Morgul667

This post is so right and so wrong at the same time

A kind of masterpiece if you think about it

Dunning_Kruger

looks at bruma PvE'ers

gimme your lunch money tony

Anotherone773

Griefers/Gankers can try to defend their actions as " oh its pvp" but its not. Its bringing a gun to fist fight with a blind man. The people you are griefing over and over have little to no experience in pvp, they are not set up or geared for pvp. They arent using high end pots and poisons and you are killing them when there is only one remotely either killing an NPC or trying to get a quest item out of a container.

That isnt pvp, thats being pathetic. I was just on my wifes account this morning, who does not pvp at all. And i had her sorc in cropsford doing quests and some EP gankers kept killing me. Now lag is cyro gives the attacker a huge advantage anyway because despite not actually showing lag the whole zone lags and an attacker will do 3 or 4 abilities before it even registers they are there. So i was getting killed instantly often. One even hit for 14k damage in a single hit, a bit ridiculous.

But i just kept going. I have been pvping for a couple of decades, so it doesnt really bother me, but i could see how it could frustrate questers who are not use to it to constantly have someone kill them every time they try to do something for no reason other than to be bad humans.

All i have to say is Karma always wins. Remember all that griefing you did when you are trying to get gear and some elitists boots you out of the group because you were only doing 30k dps instead of his required 45k dps.

InvictusApollo

My thread got locked...

Kadoin

Metafae wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

I once rolled off the second level of a tower and took over 20K fall damage. Just today in BGs I rolled off a second level and took 24K fall damage...

Those numbers don't mean anything without knowing your max health.

only 25K so its a definite killer if a DoT is on...I laugh about it most of the time because it reminds me of Skyrim

Knowledge

A really good post.

Kikke

Make it so that PvP is turned off behind certain load screens. As the only issue I got, and this is not only for event. Ball group stacking behind a door with load screen with a scroll. Then camps there endlessly because they can. Turn it off. And that would've solved the biggest grievance for the questers as well. No more ball groups standing on quest givers hiding behind a load screen. God damn COWARDS!

Worst thing is. Most of these players are trash them-self. And are easly killed once you get trough the load screen before getting killed.

How many times now havent I killed a pesky PvPer trying to ambush me with my full setup PvE Raiding toon. LoL -_-

SkysOutThizeOut

@invictusapollo why? Because you made a calm, coherent, logical argument that the opposition could not refute?

SkysOutThizeOut

@Kikke honestly I think the “questers” are crunching on that. They’re not that upset about the load screen. And most times there isn’t one. They’re most upset about just getting farmed period. The worst whispers I got was from open field. Not camping doors.

VaranisArano

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Griefers/Gankers can try to defend their actions as " oh its pvp" but its not. Its bringing a gun to fist fight with a blind man. The people you are griefing over and over have little to no experience in pvp, they are not set up or geared for pvp. They arent using high end pots and poisons and you are killing them when there is only one remotely either killing an NPC or trying to get a quest item out of a container.

That isnt pvp, thats being pathetic. I was just on my wifes account this morning, who does not pvp at all. And i had her sorc in cropsford doing quests and some EP gankers kept killing me. Now lag is cyro gives the attacker a huge advantage anyway because despite not actually showing lag the whole zone lags and an attacker will do 3 or 4 abilities before it even registers they are there. So i was getting killed instantly often. One even hit for 14k damage in a single hit, a bit ridiculous.

But i just kept going. I have been pvping for a couple of decades, so it doesnt really bother me, but i could see how it could frustrate questers who are not use to it to constantly have someone kill them every time they try to do something for no reason other than to be bad humans.

All i have to say is Karma always wins. Remember all that griefing you did when you are trying to get gear and some elitists boots you out of the group because you were only doing 30k dps instead of his required 45k dps.

I can certainly understand the frustration. No one really enjoys losing again and again. Nevertheless, I have two points to bring up.

1. Those questers may not be used to dying over and over again to other players in PVP, but that's exactly how PVP works. That's sort of the entire point of Cyrodiil. Anything you do in that zone, someone can and probably will try to kill you to prevent you from doing it.

If they aren't used to it, that's fair. There's really no equivalent in PVE, except for vMA. That's the only PVE content I recall that killed me again, and again, and again. And even that is a matter of memorizing mechanics.

But not being used to it doesn't mean they shouldn't expect it. This is a PVP zone and there are no safe zones once you leave your alliance gates. Enemy players can and will try to kill you, again and again, whatever it is you are trying to do, and that's intended behavior in a PVP zone like Cyrodiil.

2. "For no other reason than to be bad humans."

Last I checked, its impossible to get into Cyrodiil by accident. Every single person there logged into a PVP zone intentionally. They are doing quests that take them to towns with PVP flags and transit, towns that lie near to home keeps or right on the track for scroll runners, to delves that hold bosses that grant an AP buff. Every single person in Cyrodiil is worth AP to the opposing factions and counts for the Kill Enemy Players bounties.

PVP in the towns is intended. The threat for those quests in designed to come primarily from other players, and control of the towns is something designed to generate conflict. There is no safe space in the towns, which we've seen from IC that ZOS could add if they wanted to.

People fighting and killing in the towns are undoubtedly doing PVP as allowed and intended. People questing have to deal with, defeat, sneak around, or die to their threat, as ZOS intended.

And since that's the case, I don't feel the need to judge people who play PVP as intended, even if they play it in ways I don't enjoy. Certainly, I don't think that players playing PVP as intended, in a zone full of other players who specifically queued into a PVP zone are "bad humans" for killing players questing in PVP-enabled areas. ZOS intended, allows, and encourages that behavior by their design of Cyrodiil, and players questing in the towns ought to be aware and prepared for that.


Ultimately, I understand the frustration - but I think its the inevitable frustration of people who are inexperienced or unprepared for PVP discovering that, yeah, they might actually have to deal with the threat of PVP in a PVP zone. Losing over and over again sucks - and showing up unprepared or expecting to not have to fight in PVP is a great way to lose over and over again.

Personally, I used to be a PVE only player and when I went to learn PVP, I did so with the expectation that I was going to lose over and over again while I learned to be better and I learned to play in a PVP environment. That was a healthier way to approach playing in PVP, and kept me going when I did die, over and over again.

Karivaa

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

Toxic pver’s, farmers, and housing people all talk down and belittle pvpers when they try to show interest in those things. You don’t just let the new pvpers into your trials, they have to meet a litany of requirements or dps tests and even then... but it’s understandable, because that’s the content. Same can be said for PvP

And now you knowingly enter the domain that is pvp to farm for items to earn a fake outfit. And you want it handed to you, you want it freely, you don’t want to earn it. You don’t want to learn how to survive, to learn how to pvp. You don’t plan to come back. You are just entering this zone to feed an addiction. A zone that has litttle to offer, besides an experience that many of us enjoy. Then you call us “griefers” because you chose to enter our area and don’t want to play the game you entered.

You pvers don’t want to pvp. If you did you wouldn’t pvdoor zerg the map and saturate it so that it’s all one color and one faction pop locked. If you wanted to pvp you wouldn’t attempt to jump off cliffs or towers to prevent a pvper from the killing blow. Climb the tower in crops and attempt to jump off rather than fight to only learn you can’t jump off that tower... lol you never planned to pvp at all...

You don’t have to pvp to get top tier pve gear. PvPers have to pve to get the best pvp gear though and we have to earn it and figure it out. You are coming here for an item you may never even use.

We will take advantage of the opportunity to earn easy ap, to see how many bad pvers it takes to bring us down, and to kill as many as we can with the best kdr we can because we are playing for an experience.

Just like we pvpers don’t get a free ride in your trials, you’ll not get a free ride in our campaigns, where the name of the game is Player vs Player.

I agree! I joined a trial guild once to learn how to do trials. They saw my 5 star and laughed and never let me join even though I had put on all pve healing gear etc.

InvictusApollo

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@invictusapollo why? Because you made a calm, coherent, logical argument that the opposition could not refute?

I guess arguments like that trigger idiots the most so they started posting some raging insults or something like that.

SkysOutThizeOut

@InvictusApollo yeah, totally more effective than discussion or civil disagreement.

Veinblood1965

You lost me at Toxic.

caeliusstarbreaker

Who busted a grump in your oatmeal?

SkysOutThizeOut

@Veinblood1965 yet here you are.