Too Much Healing in PVP

Lord_Eomer

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Anti_Virus

I was in cyrodil and 2 zergs fought a 4 man group of magplars

End result, they were unkillable. So an adjustment is needed we should start with removing block casting while healing

BalticBlues

I would agree that Vigor overperforms for Stamina.
Vigor overperforms so much that maghealers are not need anymore in most PvE environments.
Vigor even beats all class-healing-skills of my StamWarden...

CatchMeTrolling

Healing is strong but defile is stronger.

Iskiab

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Why? Complaining about healing in MMO pvp is illogical in itself. It’s like people saying the sky isn’t blue, then asking for proof when you say it is.

Proof healing isn’t overpowered? Stamina are dominating pvp. If healing was overpowered it’d be magicka classes who’d be dominating.

CatchMeTrolling

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Why? Complaining about healing in MMO pvp is illogical in itself. It’s like people saying the sky isn’t blue, then asking for proof when you say it is.

Proof healing isn’t overpowered? Stamina are dominating pvp. If healing was overpowered it’d be magicka classes who’d be dominating.

Depends on the content. Large scale it’s mag dominating, small scale it’s stam. And to be fair stam has a powerful heal coming from vigor & damage scaling with healing.

kypranb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

🤔 maybe if self heals scaled not as well for DPS and tanks. But honestly game was built on everyone have Independence from other roles. So not sure how you could.

PVE nerf is not required if ZOS further reduce healing in PVP via Battle Spirit!

Nah honestly there is a serious problem with how well self heals scale on DPS. It's barely if any damage lost for them. In some cases dps can self heal better

Don't remove my Swallow Soul heaing, it defines the Magblade Blood Mage playstyle, and is the entire reason I play ESO.

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Why? Complaining about healing in MMO pvp is illogical in itself. It’s like people saying the sky isn’t blue, then asking for proof when you say it is.

Proof healing isn’t overpowered? Stamina are dominating pvp. If healing was overpowered it’d be magicka classes who’d be dominating.

Part of the reason Stamina are dominating is because their self healing is so strong on a per-GCD (global cooldown) basis, and can easily be combined with Dodge Rolls (which don't require a GCD), and good mobility to get LOS. Magicka builds typically have to tank damage and repeatedly spam heals/shields in order to recover...assuming you even can recover. Plus, Stamina doesn't have to worry about someone else eating their "smart" targeted heals when they really need them for themselves. This ultimately allows Stamina to get back on the offensive much faster and more reliably than Magicka can...not to mention their ability to escape, should it be necessary, is vastly superior to non-Sorc Magicka builds.

All that said, I could potentially agree to some across-the-board healing nerfs, as long as it coincided with some across-the-board damage nerfs. I've long thought that both damage and healing were, generally speaking, higher than they should be. All too often there are situations where it's either impossible to land a kill, or someone explodes pretty much instantly.

Juhasow

The problem isnt healing per se but rather off healing. It's too easy to keep allies alive with the same ability You keep Yourself alive even as DD or tank. One of the solution for that issue would be lowering the amount of abilities that heal both allies and the user of ability and splitting them into 1 morph that ehals allies only and 1 morph that heals users only.

VaranisArano

BalticBlues wrote: »

I would agree that Vigor overperforms for Stamina.
Vigor overperforms so much that maghealers are not need anymore in most PvE environments.
Vigor even beats all class-healing-skills of my StamWarden...

Probably because its the only Stam heal for 3 out of the 5 classes, and enables those Stam builds to play solo in PVP without a dedicated healer. There's a reason its in the Assault skill line for the Alliance War.

That's more a PVP issue than a PVE one, given that the only time PVE players won't have a dedicated healer when they need one is vMA.

Strider__Roshin

BalticBlues wrote: »

I would agree that Vigor overperforms for Stamina.
Vigor overperforms so much that maghealers are not need anymore in most PvE environments.
Vigor even beats all class-healing-skills of my StamWarden...

Lol oh this is just comical. Yeah that's what we're complaining about ball groups of Vigor spammers lol. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Iskiab

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Why? Complaining about healing in MMO pvp is illogical in itself. It’s like people saying the sky isn’t blue, then asking for proof when you say it is.

Proof healing isn’t overpowered? Stamina are dominating pvp. If healing was overpowered it’d be magicka classes who’d be dominating.

Part of the reason Stamina are dominating is because their self healing is so strong on a per-GCD (global cooldown) basis, and can easily be combined with Dodge Rolls (which don't require a GCD), and good mobility to get LOS. Magicka builds typically have to tank damage and repeatedly spam heals/shields in order to recover...assuming you even can recover. Plus, Stamina doesn't have to worry about someone else eating their "smart" targeted heals when they really need them for themselves. This ultimately allows Stamina to get back on the offensive much faster and more reliably than Magicka can...not to mention their ability to escape, should it be necessary, is vastly superior to non-Sorc Magicka builds.

All that said, I could potentially agree to some across-the-board healing nerfs, as long as it coincided with some across-the-board damage nerfs. I've long thought that both damage and healing were, generally speaking, higher than they should be. All too often there are situations where it's either impossible to land a kill, or someone explodes pretty much instantly.

Well I agree about reducing both damage and healing, but that wasn’t really the OP’s point.

Best way to increase survivability for new players is to add a crit resists mundus. There’s a crit damage mundus already so there should be crit resists too. It will also help new players gear up because they won’t have to wait to get a full imprenetrable set before they can start pvping.

The people who are complaining about healing are likely those in glass canon specs. Only someone who specs for full damage and sacrifices all their own survivability would think healing’s OP. They’re mad because they’re unhealable and being a glass canon isn’t working for them. Whine on the forums instead of adapting.

Tasear

FakeFox wrote: »

Healing should scale significantly less with offensive stats and healers should get more modifiers to make up for it, in my opinion.

My dream...

Tasear

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

Nah just asking for it scale better. The fact that dps can use healing skills better then specialized healers is a problem.

Rikumaru

Tasear wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

Nah just asking for it scale better. The fact that dps can use healing skills better then specialized healers is a problem.

Except they can't? Dedicated healers in Cyrodill are nigh unkillable. They also tend to bring more utility to the table too from sets such as transmutation and SPC. There's a good reason healers in Cyrodill have been nerfed repeatedly (BOL changes from 3 to 2 and 180 degree "cone") and it's certainly not because they are underperforming. Having a dedicated healer is pretty much core in BG's.

Iskiab

Rikumaru wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

Nah just asking for it scale better. The fact that dps can use healing skills better then specialized healers is a problem.

Except they can't? Dedicated healers in Cyrodill are nigh unkillable. They also tend to bring more utility to the table too from sets such as transmutation and SPC. There's a good reason healers in Cyrodill have been nerfed repeatedly (BOL changes from 3 to 2 and 180 degree "cone") and it's certainly not because they are underperforming. Having a dedicated healer is pretty much core in BG's.

They aren’t unkillable, I die all the time. As for being required in BGs, totally untrue as well.

This is an MMO, if you’re saying that a healer shouldn’t be effective in a BG that’s ridiculous. Teams with two healers (especially dedicated healers) often struggle to win in death matches.

What you’re saying is the equivalent of a solo player saying they can’t do group content. OMG, I tried doing spindleculch vet with 3 other solo friends and failed. Just because it’s pvp vs pve it doesn’t mean the mechanics of the game are vastly different and suddenly it’s not an MMO.

A team will dominate in pvp either by having each player cooperate and heal each other or having a healer. Most pvpers (even at the top end) I’ve found still aren’t very good and aren’t spec’d for any group benefit. The OP’s argument right now, ‘healing is overpowered’ is misunderstanding his problem, it should be ‘teamwork is overpowered’.

Why do you think people complain when they see a stamblade on their team in a BG? It’s not that they can’t do damage, it’s that they’re usually the person not playing well with everyone else.

VaranisArano

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

Nah just asking for it scale better. The fact that dps can use healing skills better then specialized healers is a problem.

Except they can't? Dedicated healers in Cyrodill are nigh unkillable. They also tend to bring more utility to the table too from sets such as transmutation and SPC. There's a good reason healers in Cyrodill have been nerfed repeatedly (BOL changes from 3 to 2 and 180 degree "cone") and it's certainly not because they are underperforming. Having a dedicated healer is pretty much core in BG's.

They aren’t unkillable, I die all the time. As for being required in BGs, totally untrue as well.

This is an MMO, if you’re saying that a healer shouldn’t be effective in a BG that’s ridiculous. Teams with two healers (especially dedicated healers) often struggle to win in death matches.

What you’re saying is the equivalent of a solo player saying they can’t do group content. OMG, I tried doing spindleculch vet with 3 other solo friends and failed. Just because it’s pvp vs pve it doesn’t mean the mechanics of the game are vastly different and suddenly it’s not an MMO.

A team will dominate in pvp either by having each player cooperate and heal each other or having a healer. Most pvpers (even at the top end) I’ve found still aren’t very good and aren’t spec’d for any group benefit. The OP’s argument right now, ‘healing is overpowered’ is misunderstanding his problem, it should be ‘teamwork is overpowered’.

Why do you think people complain when they see a stamblade on their team in a BG? It’s not that they can’t do damage, it’s that they’re usually the person not playing well with everyone else.

That's pretty much every argument about organized raids, ball groups, and pre-made BG groups in a nutshell.

In an AvAvA or team v team v team environment, teamwork is overpowered.

Rikumaru

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

Nah just asking for it scale better. The fact that dps can use healing skills better then specialized healers is a problem.

Except they can't? Dedicated healers in Cyrodill are nigh unkillable. They also tend to bring more utility to the table too from sets such as transmutation and SPC. There's a good reason healers in Cyrodill have been nerfed repeatedly (BOL changes from 3 to 2 and 180 degree "cone") and it's certainly not because they are underperforming. Having a dedicated healer is pretty much core in BG's.

They aren’t unkillable, I die all the time. As for being required in BGs, totally untrue as well.

This is an MMO, if you’re saying that a healer shouldn’t be effective in a BG that’s ridiculous. Teams with two healers (especially dedicated healers) often struggle to win in death matches.

What you’re saying is the equivalent of a solo player saying they can’t do group content. OMG, I tried doing spindleculch vet with 3 other solo friends and failed. Just because it’s pvp vs pve it doesn’t mean the mechanics of the game are vastly different and suddenly it’s not an MMO.

A team will dominate in pvp either by having each player cooperate and heal each other or having a healer. Most pvpers (even at the top end) I’ve found still aren’t very good and aren’t spec’d for any group benefit. The OP’s argument right now, ‘healing is overpowered’, when it should be ‘teamwork is overpowered’.

Why do you think people complain when they see a stamblade on their team in a BG? It’s not that they can’t do damage, it’s that they’re usually the person not playing well with everyone else.

I don't have a problem with well specced healers being more effective than solo builds in a group environment. I have a problem with the fact that said group healers want solo healing nerfed to try to nerf solo / small scale. Also healers really are required in a serious BG group. As for why people don't like stamblades on their team in BGs, they literally offer less than any other class in a group setting.

darkblue5

DPS healing in PVE is an issue. Healing overall in PVE being nerfed would actually help healers be relevant. If a tank couldn't just slot a resto backbar to 3 dps a dungeon because speccing into healing sets precluded selfish tanking. If 4 dps couldn't survive anymore not just based on boss damage to the tank. Heals being nerfed round the board would help healers be needed in PVE.

In PvP I'd rather healers be nerfed not so that the team with healers loses, but rather due to PvE concerns. It'd also help somewhat with the boring stale slow tank meta but not by dealing with the core issues that allow it. But it'd help so eh.

idk

Tasear wrote: »

🤔 maybe if self heals scaled not as well for DPS and tanks. But honestly game was built on everyone have Independence from other roles. So not sure how you could.

Wut? Heals scale poorly for tanks unless they are build like a healer. I am surprise a comment like this from you. How in the heck can a true tank build heal as well as a healer?

I am not talking about a heal tank running with 3 DDs where all 4 players are skilled enough to not really need a full time healer in a 4 man dungeon because that heal tank is no where near as effective at healing and does not need to be.

That is not what your comment alluded to. You seem to indicate that tanks can heal very well. Besides, OP is not really talking about healers heals. They are talking about a good PvP group with good healers. They work well together. When I run with a small group in PvP I run as a healer. We are hard to beat but we are disciplined, have good leaders.

Against a good group the fight can last awhile. Against a bad group or one not setup very well the fight tends to be very short.

TumlinTheJolly

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Everyone can super heal, whether you are in light armor, medium or heavy. This is killing PVP and pockets healers in organized/ball groups are mess!

Current state of healing in PVP is broken, ZOS should reduce healing to 75% via Battle Sprit

Agreed. Specifically in BGs and duels. They could maybe leave it at 50% in Cyro, but really they should just make it all 75%.

TumlinTheJolly

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Like I say everytime one of these threads pop up, I think damage is too high in pvp, not healing, or maybe some people should switch to no cp where it is completely different to cp pvp.

In no cp you can't build tanky enough to where just a few players won't be able to kill you. Damage here is very high, many things are actually dealing too much dmg imo. I have currently 35k resists and get hit 9-10k snipes still, very often, so I'm stacking mitigation and can basically be 2 shot and then people complain about healing, it just makes no sense to me. Bleeds and oblvion damage for example ignore basically all counters and hit so hard. I don't even run much damage and never have an issue killing someone either so it honestly just seems to me that the issue is cp, because the few times I have tried it I was basically invincible, as was most people I tried to kill, and I never see any healing overperforming in no cp.

This is to make you tap block and dodge roll. Skill should be greater than stats.

ccfeeling

Thats why u need to do healing debuff

idk

ccfeeling wrote: »

Thats why u need to do healing debuff

And this would be part of a well organized and led team.

Crixus8000

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

This is to make you tap block and dodge roll. Skill should be greater than stats.

I agree, so tell me what skill there is in spamming 10k + hits from a huge safe distance away ? Why should survivability require so much skill when players can outdamage it by spamming a single button, or applying cheesy proc sets and things like bleeds/oblivion ?

If I was to block every snipe and high damage skill in an outnumbered fight then my finger would not leave the block button, and that means dead anyway because I would have no stam left.

Girl_Number8

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Everyone can super heal, whether you are in light armor, medium or heavy. This is killing PVP and pockets healers in organized/ball groups are mess!

Current state of healing in PVP is broken, ZOS should reduce healing to 75% via Battle Sprit

Go play as a magblade solo in the open. Healing isn't broken, it is that the classes are not on the same par as each other. Also, most stam players do not know how to heal correctly.

If you don't have the burst then that's something you need to look at rather then ask for your hand to be held....with a nerf, smh.

Girl_Number8

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

This^ too

Girl_Number8

Rikumaru wrote: »

Nerfing self healing into oblivion on non-healers would completely kill solo play. This isn't other MMO's where you have to be a dedicated healer or DPS to do that respective job. That's precisely why I play this game over other MMO's.

This^ as well. They are already killing solo and small scale players.

Pevey

I think people forgot the the majority of people who play this game just do SOLO quest content, no PVP or group content at all. The forum user base is not a good representation of the game user base. It would be suicidal for ZOS to nerf the self-healing for those players.

Kuramas9tails

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There is no problem, L2P. Seriously. Some people say you don’t need healers, then people say they’re too powerful. Forums are getting ridiculous.

contribute something good by logic,

Why? Complaining about healing in MMO pvp is illogical in itself. It’s like people saying the sky isn’t blue, then asking for proof when you say it is.

Proof healing isn’t overpowered? Stamina are dominating pvp. If healing was overpowered it’d be magicka classes who’d be dominating.

Depends on the content. Large scale it’s mag dominating, small scale it’s stam. And to be fair stam has a powerful heal coming from vigor & damage scaling with healing.

Exactly. You combine Rally, vigor, potion and troll king and a Stamblade in cloak will be back to full health in seconds and keep that healing tick and increase in health regeneration for a good bit.