Akaviri...not snake folk :/

RaddlemanNumber7

After playing through the Elsweyr chapter I felt that they had completely killed the dream regarding the Tsaesci being snake people. But, Chevalier Renald has successfully revived the mystery. The possibility that the Tsaesci are some kind of serpentine shape shifters remains alive, snake-eyed and skin-shedding.

Jayman1000

To my knowledge of the lore Akaviri folk looked very similar to Tamriel humanoid races, the vampire snake thing seems like pure myth and fables.

chuck-18_ESO

There were Tsaesci spirits seen all the way back in TES: Oblivion. We've known for literally a decade that the Tsaesci aren't literal snake-men. The Tsaesci are one of the last remaining mysteries in TES, and they're likely to remain that way. Ultimately, we have far more questions about them than answers, but we can certainly say with confidence that they aren't literal, lamia-style snake men, and never were.

Shadow_Akula

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

After playing through the Elsweyr chapter I felt that they had completely killed the dream regarding the Tsaesci being snake people. But, Chevalier Renald has successfully revived the mystery. The possibility that the Tsaesci are some kind of serpentine shape shifters remains alive, snake-eyed and skin-shedding.

I was under the impression they were shape-shifters too but I don’t know why I’ve always thought that 🤔 perhaps me just interpreting a piece of lore differently to others

Dont_do_drugs

well for the tsaesci there had been descriptions, snake-like, they also have not legs but a snake-like tail, so basically pretty close to lamias...
they have been depicted by fans like this:

Tang-Mo...

Kamal...
for the Kamal some people guessed, Karstaag in Solstheim/TES 3 Morrowind was a Kamal remnant from a former akavir invasion into Morrowind:

and Ka Po' Tun...well actually pretty close to khajiit...but most likely taller, more massive than the regular kitten we know...

till today i find a lot of fan-arts more accurate to the lore descriptions, than anything zos and bethesda ever tried to "hint" or create. neither have the akaviri remnants in eso anything which might remind u of an akaviri, neither was bethesda interested enough, to create "realistic" akaviri ghosts:

psychotrip

Darios_Heliodromos wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This is such a boring cop-out...yet again Zenimax chooses the most mundane interpretation of the lore whenever they can get away with it. And just like that, the world of Nirn is a little less interesting. Not enough to matter, but enough to notice.

Why would it be considered boring? They are just as interesting as one would consider Nords or Imperials. If anything, it is pretty cool to know that there is a race of people on Akavir who would be considered extremely exotic, yet somewhat familiar to fans. Beyond that, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for the Tsaesci to have somehow developed the ability to shapeshift into snakes in the 'beastland' of Akavir. The recent lore regarding the Tsaesci, Chevalier Renald, sorta hints towards that.

Funny you mention that, because Nords and Imperials are also races that had their lore "toned down" in later games. Imperials are completely unrecognizeable from their original lore when they were introduced in Redguard:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Cyrodiil

Its not that the only way to be interesting is to be some sort of snake man, but this just feels like another case of Zenimax sucking out any creative potential from these rich ideas. There were so many creative ways to explain the varying descriptions of the tsaesci. For example, my favorite theory is that they were literal vampire snakes that act like parasites. They bore into the brains of their hosts and take control, using the bodies of the men they exterminated as undead puppets. It explains the snake references, their immortality, their snake-man appearance (the body could become more snake like overtime, explaining all the varying descriptions).

This allows Akavir to be more than just "faux asia standin" but a truly alien place thats incompatible with the Nirn we know and love. Something truly separate and strange. A distant mystery looming over the horizon.

To chalk it all up to, yet again, "bias and transcription errors" and say they're human almost feels like self-parody at this point. That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity as opposed to a tool to make the world feel deeper.

storm105

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

well for the tsaesci there had been descriptions, snake-like, they also have not legs but a snake-like tail, so basically pretty close to lamias...
they have been depicted by fans like this:

Tang-Mo...

Kamal...
for the Kamal some people guessed, Karstaag in Solstheim/TES 3 Morrowind was a Kamal remnant from a former akavir invasion into Morrowind:

and Ka Po' Tun...well actually pretty close to khajiit...but most likely taller, more massive than the regular kitten we know...

till today i find a lot of fan-arts more accurate to the lore descriptions, than anything zos and bethesda ever tried to "hint" or create. neither have the akaviri remnants in eso anything which might remind u of an akaviri, neither was bethesda interested enough, to create "realistic" akaviri ghosts:

Literally only a single source claims that the tsacsei don't have legs and look like a Naga. And it was an in universe historical fiction written in the third era by a person who never met one. The same sources contradicts most other lore. This isn't a case of fan work being more accurate to the more, it's an example of fans cherry picking concepts they think are more interesting. Then you get upset when the actual lore doesn't match your head Canon. Also the kaarstag has never even been compared to anything akaviri related in universe. Saying he came from atmora is more likely than akaviri.

mague

Lyserus wrote: »

The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail

quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）

A picture tells it all

Akavir is a continent like Tamriel. It has probably many races and subraces, like Tamriel has.
I probably wont live long enought to see all of Nirn. Can we get 2 game updates a year please ?

Delparis

Lyserus wrote: »

The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail

quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Akaviri

starkerealm

ArchMikem wrote: »

In order for ZOS to exploit a loophole and not have to model actual Tsaesci is take the term "Akaviri" and make it a fighting style instead of the name of an actual person of Akaviri descent. Every "Akaviri" in Elsweyr could very well just be Humans practicing Akaviri sword fighting. Big cop out I know.

What's so hard about taking a Lamia, cutting it in half and putting the upper half of an Imperial onto the lower half of a Lamia?

Snakey Ka'po'tun would be really lore breaking.

So, there's (at least) four races native to Akavir. They're all Akaviri.

The Ka'po'tun are tiger men. Much like the Khajiit. They have an obsession with dragons, and are probably the origin of the Dragon Knight class in ESO. These guys might be related to the Khajiit, though this is unclear.

The Kamal are ice demons. Yes, "demons," not daedra.

The Tang Mo are monkey men. One of the few "friendly" races of Akavir.

The Tsaesci are snakemen who may also be vampires, and might have eaten the fifth race.

The final race is another variety of humans, unrelated to the Yokudan and Atmoran races. They may be extinct. There's very little information on them beyond, "hey, these things exist," or, "used to exist." Again, it's unclear.

It's also unclear if the Tsaesci ever made it to Elsweyr in the first place.

On the whole, not seeing a single Ohmes in Elsweyr is significantly stranger than finding one Akaviri and discovering they're not a Tsaesci.

psychotrip

mague wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail

quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）

A picture tells it all

Akavir is a continent like Tamriel. It has probably many races and subraces, like Tamriel has.
I probably wont live long enought to see all of Nirn. Can we get 2 game updates a year please ?

That picture is based on nothing so you know. Its just a fan made map and its missing a lot of other places referenced in the lore.

NeroBad

I really liked the Sload's model in Summerset, altough it was much harder to avoid (they were ingame already (Redguard)), they did it well I think, and if they would have a cool concept to make serpent people ingame, they would do it. It would be awsome to see 1 or 2 serpent man, but I can make peace without them.

My bigger problem are the Imga race. Altough they are native to Valenwood, and sadly base game zones are much more tonned down then DLC zones, they are totally absent despite that they are not a distant mistery but a documented fact. I would love to see some Imga in ESO, and Elsweyr is the closest thing to Valenwood, so my only hope is Dragonhold but I prepare for the total Imga disappearance altough they are definietly real in ingame lore.

P.S. I just read that they are on Falinesti during ESO, obviously to avoid modelling them during base game, but I hope now they make 1-4 renegade Imga for the sake of seeing them, and some cool lore with them.

MLGProPlayer

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Akaviri are mostly normal - asian - looking humans... but there are demi human races tigers, monkeys, snakes and yetis there as well

Wrong. In this era at any rate.
Once things over there were that way. Until the akaviri humans got driven out, or eaten... those driven out were part of the mix that became imperials, those eaten... became snakemen poo, presumably.

Conduit0 wrote: »

1. The term Akaviri is a general term that refers to anyone from Akavir.

Exactly, "akaviri" are four races - snakepeople Tsaesci, monkeypeople Tang Mo, tigerpeople Ka Po'tun, and "snow demons" Kamal (which noone is really sure what that actually means, so the developers could do whatever. From yeti to bearmen to reptiles that hibernate in the cold...)
Anyhow, more into on akaviri there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1

Conduit0 wrote: »

2. The Tsaesci being snake like beings is not confirmed anywhere...

IS confirmed.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/why-tsaesci-may-or-may-not-have-legs-facts
...gives a good rundown of all the sources.
However, as that one points out... the sources about -how- snakey they might be are conflicting!
Of course, it could very well be that there are different flavors of snakeyness for the tsaesci, just like there are different flavors of cat-ness with the Khajiit... could be they have some "humanoid with legs and snakeskin" caste, and some "serpent-body" caste... (just like the D&D Yuan-ti!) right? Up to ZOS I reckon.

Conduit0 wrote: »

3. Even if there were actual Tsaesci snake people there were none left in Tamriel by the end of the first era.

...until the akaviri invasion a decade before ESO, which may or may not have had some along.

Conduit0 wrote: »

4. The 2nd era Akaviri invasion that was the impetus for the Ebonheart Pact was not lead by the Tsaesci.

...but by the Kamal.
But since noone can really tell from what little lore we have on that if they came all alone, or brought mercenary troops or slaves from the other races, well... ZOS can decide on whatever there.

Conduit0 wrote: »

I said snake people, there is no actual evidence that the Akaviri Potentates were snake people.

There is info the potentates were. or at the very least... some of them.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/mysterious-akavir
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-morning-star-book-1
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-first-seed-book-3
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-evening-star-book-12
Doesn't say they -all- were snake people tho. And the akaviri who came to cyrodil to eventually help lay the groundwork of the reman empire -were- at least in a large part akaviri humans, so... lore is fuzzy enough that ZOS can once again decide whatever suits their needs!

Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.

They would embellish historical facts to make them seem more incredible (as story tellers do in real life too). Taking lorebooks at face value would be like taking Greek myths at face value in our world.

Rex-Umbra

Maybe release a mass akavari expansion with all the new races and launch in china $$$

MLGProPlayer

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Maybe release a mass akavari expansion with all the new races and launch in china $$$

But then they'd need to remove all skeleton assets from the game, and this game has a lot of skeleton assets.

starkerealm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.

So, much like your posts?

Sarcasm aside, information on the races of Akavir can be accepted with some reservations. Encounters with Akavir occured within living memory of the events of ESO. When multiple writers intersect with similar information (without one drawing on the other as their source), you can hesitantly start to accept some of that information as having some kind of basis.

While The Elder Scrolls does make use of unreliable narrators, simply ignoring everything that hasn't been personally witnessed is a bit excessive. So long as you remember the phrase, "contents subject to change," you should be fine.

The existence of a race of Akaviri snake people seems likely. The existence of other Akaviri races seems equally likely.

Narvuntien

There is a theory that the Tsaesci were parasites , like the things from Stargate. They "ate" the humans, they "ate" the dragons makes things complicated.

starkerealm

Narvuntien wrote: »

There is a theory that the Tsaesci were parasites , like the things from Stargate. They "ate" the humans, they "ate" the dragons makes things complicated.

The Ga'ould. And... there's absolutely nothing to support that in setting. I mean, there's nothing wrong with the idea in general, but, there's also nothing that supports it. In fact, the part where the Tsaesci don't have more control, and have never managed to infiltrate Tamriel kinda works against that idea a bit.

WeerW3ir

Narvuntien wrote: »

There is a theory that the Tsaesci were parasites , like the things from Stargate. They "ate" the humans, they "ate" the dragons makes things complicated.

vilio11

psychotrip wrote: »

Darios_Heliodromos wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This is such a boring cop-out...yet again Zenimax chooses the most mundane interpretation of the lore whenever they can get away with it. And just like that, the world of Nirn is a little less interesting. Not enough to matter, but enough to notice.

Why would it be considered boring? They are just as interesting as one would consider Nords or Imperials. If anything, it is pretty cool to know that there is a race of people on Akavir who would be considered extremely exotic, yet somewhat familiar to fans. Beyond that, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for the Tsaesci to have somehow developed the ability to shapeshift into snakes in the 'beastland' of Akavir. The recent lore regarding the Tsaesci, Chevalier Renald, sorta hints towards that.

Funny you mention that, because Nords and Imperials are also races that had their lore "toned down" in later games. Imperials are completely unrecognizeable from their original lore when they were introduced in Redguard:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Cyrodiil

Its not that the only way to be interesting is to be some sort of snake man, but this just feels like another case of Zenimax sucking out any creative potential from these rich ideas. There were so many creative ways to explain the varying descriptions of the tsaesci. For example, my favorite theory is that they were literal vampire snakes that act like parasites. They bore into the brains of their hosts and take control, using the bodies of the men they exterminated as undead puppets. It explains the snake references, their immortality, their snake-man appearance (the body could become more snake like overtime, explaining all the varying descriptions).

This allows Akavir to be more than just "faux asia standin" but a truly alien place thats incompatible with the Nirn we know and love. Something truly separate and strange. A distant mystery looming over the horizon.

To chalk it all up to, yet again, "bias and transcription errors" and say they're human almost feels like self-parody at this point. That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity as opposed to a tool to make the world feel deeper.

I was not happy when I saw that Tsaesci are just asian humans and not snake people but now I am happy with this new lore. The reason is we have little diversity in menish races campare to the races of mer. He have High elves, Wood elves, Dark elves, Sea elves, Show elves, Deep evles(or Dwemer), some rouge High elves like Dirreni and Ayleid elves and even Orcs are elves.There even other type of elves in this universe. For men we have Impiriels(Colovian and Nibenese),Nords,Redguards and Bretons(with elven blood) plus two not playable races Kothringi and Reacmen.

starkerealm

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

There is a theory that the Tsaesci were parasites , like the things from Stargate. They "ate" the humans, they "ate" the dragons makes things complicated.

Darios_Heliodromos

vilio11 wrote: »

I was not happy when I saw that Tsaesci are just asian humans and not snake people but now I am happy with this new lore. The reason is we have little diversity in menish races campare to the races of mer. He have High elves, Wood elves, Dark elves, Sea elves, Show elves, Deep evles(or Dwemer), some rouge High elves like Dirreni and Ayleid elves and even Orcs are elves.There even other type of elves in this universe. For men we have Impiriels(Colovian and Nibenese),Nords,Redguards and Bretons(with elven blood) plus two not playable races Kothringi and Reacmen.

The various elven races (Altmer, Maomer, Bosmer, Dunmer, etc) are all descended from the Old Ehlnofey while the various human races (Bretons, Nords, Cyrodillians, Yokudans, Tsaesci, etc) are descended from the Wandering Ehlnofey. Considering that the various races of men originated in distant, far flung places such as Yokuda, Atmora, and Akavir, the moniker "wandering" makes sense.

Any idea that the Tsaesci are literal snakes can be put to rest by the report of Uriel V's invasion of Akaviri during the Third Era, which specifically describes the Tsaesci as mounted men. If anything, the way the Tsaesci sorta retreated and gathered themselves before suddenly 'striking' the Imperial forces down sorta strikes me as 'snake-like.' If anything, the Tsaesci appear to worship and emulate the traits and characteristics of snakes, probably nothing more. Living on a continent full of beast races, I could see the reason why.

Here's to hoping that TES VI takes place on Akavir. I wonder if ESO is hinting around regarding Akaviri/Tsaesci lore with their recent Elsweyr content to conduct market research regarding interest in a TES game taking place outside of Tamriel.

FabresFour

my tsaesci :V

max_only

I thought Akavir was the name of the continent. Just like Tamriel.

Being Akaviri doesn’t mean you look like a snake.
Just like being Tamerilic doesn’t mean you look like a lizard.

You can be AKAVIRI without being snakey.

psychotrip

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Akaviri are mostly normal - asian - looking humans... but there are demi human races tigers, monkeys, snakes and yetis there as well

Wrong. In this era at any rate.
Once things over there were that way. Until the akaviri humans got driven out, or eaten... those driven out were part of the mix that became imperials, those eaten... became snakemen poo, presumably.

Conduit0 wrote: »

1. The term Akaviri is a general term that refers to anyone from Akavir.

Exactly, "akaviri" are four races - snakepeople Tsaesci, monkeypeople Tang Mo, tigerpeople Ka Po'tun, and "snow demons" Kamal (which noone is really sure what that actually means, so the developers could do whatever. From yeti to bearmen to reptiles that hibernate in the cold...)
Anyhow, more into on akaviri there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1

Conduit0 wrote: »

2. The Tsaesci being snake like beings is not confirmed anywhere...

IS confirmed.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/why-tsaesci-may-or-may-not-have-legs-facts
...gives a good rundown of all the sources.
However, as that one points out... the sources about -how- snakey they might be are conflicting!
Of course, it could very well be that there are different flavors of snakeyness for the tsaesci, just like there are different flavors of cat-ness with the Khajiit... could be they have some "humanoid with legs and snakeskin" caste, and some "serpent-body" caste... (just like the D&D Yuan-ti!) right? Up to ZOS I reckon.

Conduit0 wrote: »

3. Even if there were actual Tsaesci snake people there were none left in Tamriel by the end of the first era.

...until the akaviri invasion a decade before ESO, which may or may not have had some along.

Conduit0 wrote: »

4. The 2nd era Akaviri invasion that was the impetus for the Ebonheart Pact was not lead by the Tsaesci.

...but by the Kamal.
But since noone can really tell from what little lore we have on that if they came all alone, or brought mercenary troops or slaves from the other races, well... ZOS can decide on whatever there.

Conduit0 wrote: »

I said snake people, there is no actual evidence that the Akaviri Potentates were snake people.

There is info the potentates were. or at the very least... some of them.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/mysterious-akavir
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-morning-star-book-1
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-first-seed-book-3
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-evening-star-book-12
Doesn't say they -all- were snake people tho. And the akaviri who came to cyrodil to eventually help lay the groundwork of the reman empire -were- at least in a large part akaviri humans, so... lore is fuzzy enough that ZOS can once again decide whatever suits their needs!

Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.

They would embellish historical facts to make them seem more incredible (as story tellers do in real life too). Taking lorebooks at face value would be like taking Greek myths at face value in our world.

*Sigh* I said it before and I'll say it again:

To chalk it all up to, yet again, "bias and transcription errors" and say they're human almost feels like self-parody at this point. That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity as opposed to a tool to make the world feel deeper.

How many times have we been through this? How much longer will we defend it with this tired argument? An unreliable narrator is not a cure-all for bland, inconsistent worldbuilding.

storm105

mague wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail

quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）

A picture tells it all

Akavir is a continent like Tamriel. It has probably many races and subraces, like Tamriel has.
I probably wont live long enought to see all of Nirn. Can we get 2 game updates a year please ?

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.

So, much like your posts?

Sarcasm aside, information on the races of Akavir can be accepted with some reservations. Encounters with Akavir occured within living memory of the events of ESO. When multiple writers intersect with similar information (without one drawing on the other as their source), you can hesitantly start to accept some of that information as having some kind of basis.

While The Elder Scrolls does make use of unreliable narrators, simply ignoring everything that hasn't been personally witnessed is a bit excessive. So long as you remember the phrase, "contents subject to change," you should be fine.

The existence of a race of Akaviri snake people seems likely. The existence of other Akaviri races seems equally likely.

Nobody in recent years has seen. Tscasei. The recent Akiviri invasion was made up of Kamal which is a different race and none of the Invaders were described as snake like. The idea that the tscascei are just humans with lots of snake imagery seems more likely

Dont_do_drugs

storm105 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

well for the tsaesci there had been descriptions, snake-like, they also have not legs but a snake-like tail, so basically pretty close to lamias...
they have been depicted by fans like this:

Tang-Mo...

Kamal...
for the Kamal some people guessed, Karstaag in Solstheim/TES 3 Morrowind was a Kamal remnant from a former akavir invasion into Morrowind:

and Ka Po' Tun...well actually pretty close to khajiit...but most likely taller, more massive than the regular kitten we know...

till today i find a lot of fan-arts more accurate to the lore descriptions, than anything zos and bethesda ever tried to "hint" or create. neither have the akaviri remnants in eso anything which might remind u of an akaviri, neither was bethesda interested enough, to create "realistic" akaviri ghosts:

Literally only a single source claims that the tsacsei don't have legs and look like a Naga. And it was an in universe historical fiction written in the third era by a person who never met one. The same sources contradicts most other lore. This isn't a case of fan work being more accurate to the more, it's an example of fans cherry picking concepts they think are more interesting. Then you get upset when the actual lore doesn't match your head Canon. Also the kaarstag has never even been compared to anything akaviri related in universe. Saying he came from atmora is more likely than akaviri.

well, truth is, bethesda always find ways to get around inconsistent race display (argonians and khajiit from different parts of tes), but after all beth just had been sloppy and lazy vizualizing argonians and khajiit, to safe time and work for building own body models. the same game, which got rid of those awesome argonians and kitten from morrowind, was the same, which made akaviri stereotype men. so yes, i will always pick the more creative and illustrious images, bcs i am pretty sure, thats what those races originally had been supposed to be, economized away. oblivion was the starting point for that process.

storm105

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

storm105 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

well for the tsaesci there had been descriptions, snake-like, they also have not legs but a snake-like tail, so basically pretty close to lamias...
they have been depicted by fans like this:

Tang-Mo...

Kamal...
for the Kamal some people guessed, Karstaag in Solstheim/TES 3 Morrowind was a Kamal remnant from a former akavir invasion into Morrowind:

and Ka Po' Tun...well actually pretty close to khajiit...but most likely taller, more massive than the regular kitten we know...

till today i find a lot of fan-arts more accurate to the lore descriptions, than anything zos and bethesda ever tried to "hint" or create. neither have the akaviri remnants in eso anything which might remind u of an akaviri, neither was bethesda interested enough, to create "realistic" akaviri ghosts:

Literally only a single source claims that the tsacsei don't have legs and look like a Naga. And it was an in universe historical fiction written in the third era by a person who never met one. The same sources contradicts most other lore. This isn't a case of fan work being more accurate to the more, it's an example of fans cherry picking concepts they think are more interesting. Then you get upset when the actual lore doesn't match your head Canon. Also the kaarstag has never even been compared to anything akaviri related in universe. Saying he came from atmora is more likely than akaviri.

well, truth is, bethesda always find ways to get around inconsistent race display (argonians and khajiit from different parts of tes), but after all beth just had been sloppy and lazy vizualizing argonians and khajiit, to safe time and work for building own body models. the same game, which got rid of those awesome argonians and kitten from morrowind, was the same, which made akaviri stereotype men. so yes, i will always pick the more creative and illustrious images, bcs i am pretty sure, thats what those races originally had been supposed to be, economized away. oblivion was the starting point for that process.

The khaajit and argonian appearances before wasn't the result of Bethesda being sloppy it's because TESA Redguard was really the first game where they sat down and tried to write the lore. They said the whole reason for writing the first edition pocket guide was because they realized their was any more for anywhere outside of the illac bay region. So they sat down and started writing lore as well as reworking a lot of the lore from daggerfall. That's why the first pocket guide has a lot of inaccuracies now because the book represents the early concepts of a lot of the lore, many of which has been revised throughout the years. That's the reason why khajiit look like humans in arena and daggerfall. Because the khajiit were originally intended to just be cat like humans. I dont doubt that when they made Morrowind they wanted the tsacsei to be more like Naga but it seems they abandoned that idea in Oblivion.

Dont_do_drugs

yes, i am aware that arena and daggerfall were lacking a bigger lore concept still. but morrowind wasnt. u can say after a nice start morrowind was like the idealists dream of the future elder scrolls, its been full of idea and concepts. but with oblivion and growing gaming industry other aspects started rising: mini-addons for money and armored horses *g since then bethesda/zenimax media started selling out all creativity ...slowly..but maxing profits by decreasing programming efforts, which u can see currently peaking in eso. eso is lorewise so inconsistent, it hurts. i am pretty sure, i am not the only older tes fan starting to delete eso "lore" from memory.

storm105

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

yes, i am aware that arena and daggerfall were lacking a bigger lore concept still. but morrowind wasnt. u can say after a nice start morrowind was like the idealists dream of the future elder scrolls, its been full of idea and concepts. but with oblivion and growing gaming industry other aspects started rising: mini-addons for money and armored horses *g since then bethesda/zenimax media started selling out all creativity ...slowly..but maxing profits by decreasing programming efforts, which u can see currently peaking in eso. eso is lorewise so inconsistent, it hurts.

Morrowind was still missing the majority of the the lore that is preset today and even then a few sources from Morrowind call the tsacsei men. The annotated anuad from Morrowind just list the tsacsei as another race of men and that lore book is just as old as mysterious Akaviri and 2920. However people try to ignore that line because the tsacsei being humans are less interesting. Even in TSA redguard there is a half refused half akaviri who looks nothing like a snake and looks pretty human. Like I said it's not eao changing the lore and it's not inconistance. It's fans cherry picking what they like and ignoring what they don't. To many fans think they somehow know more about the lore than the people's job it is to write the lore and that annoys me far more than any inconstancy.