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Akaviri...not snake folk :/
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's not quite true.Great but most of this island are inhabitit by tamrielic people. Not people from Akaviri
Or rather... it -will- be true at some point in history, in a couple centuries... when the empire used those isles as their staging poinbt for a return visit to akavir.
In the second era though?
IF the isles were populated by tamrielic people... then they would have likely brought advance warning of the akaviri invasion ten years before ESO, or at least some mention would have been made of the akaviri invasion overrunning the isles before hitting the nords.
No such lore exists.
Thus... the logical assumption would be... that those isles are most likely not very well known in tamriel at this time at best, and possibly even completely unknown. And that the recent invasion used them as staging area for getting to invade tamriel just like Uriel Septims army will for their trip in the other direction in a couple centuries...
Heck, Black Harbor in Esroniet won't actually fall to the imperials until that tine in the third era, as reported in the lore... and it was surrendered by a very akaviri-sounding ruler. SO I am guessing it would be safe to think that until that day, the isles are truly in akaviri hands...
...though there likely had been some trade before that counter-invasion (otherwise how would the imperials have known?) and it might very well be that such trade is already going on, with a few merhcants closely guarding their trade route to those goods not found anywhere in tamriel... (not like that sort of thing hasn't happened in history)
...See, I did some research and thinking before coming up with that idea
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotrip wrote: »
I actually just didn't care enough to check any of the recect post on that thread. I'll go do that now I just don't think making them human makes them mundane and I feel like your idea doesn't work for anything but a sci-fi.if anything I find it less interesting then if they were just liamaspsychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »
Wrong. In this era at any rate.Nemesis7884 wrote: »Akaviri are mostly normal - asian - looking humans... but there are demi human races tigers, monkeys, snakes and yetis there as well
Once things over there were that way. Until the akaviri humans got driven out, or eaten... those driven out were part of the mix that became imperials, those eaten... became snakemen poo, presumably.
Exactly, "akaviri" are four races - snakepeople Tsaesci, monkeypeople Tang Mo, tigerpeople Ka Po'tun, and "snow demons" Kamal (which noone is really sure what that actually means, so the developers could do whatever. From yeti to bearmen to reptiles that hibernate in the cold...)1. The term Akaviri is a general term that refers to anyone from Akavir.
Anyhow, more into on akaviri there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1
IS confirmed.2. The Tsaesci being snake like beings is not confirmed anywhere...
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/why-tsaesci-may-or-may-not-have-legs-facts
...gives a good rundown of all the sources.
However, as that one points out... the sources about -how- snakey they might be are conflicting!
Of course, it could very well be that there are different flavors of snakeyness for the tsaesci, just like there are different flavors of cat-ness with the Khajiit... could be they have some "humanoid with legs and snakeskin" caste, and some "serpent-body" caste... (just like the D&D Yuan-ti!) right? Up to ZOS I reckon.
...until the akaviri invasion a decade before ESO, which may or may not have had some along.3. Even if there were actual Tsaesci snake people there were none left in Tamriel by the end of the first era.
...but by the Kamal.4. The 2nd era Akaviri invasion that was the impetus for the Ebonheart Pact was not lead by the Tsaesci.
But since noone can really tell from what little lore we have on that if they came all alone, or brought mercenary troops or slaves from the other races, well... ZOS can decide on whatever there.
There is info the potentates were. or at the very least... some of them.I said snake people, there is no actual evidence that the Akaviri Potentates were snake people.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/mysterious-akavir
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-morning-star-book-1
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-first-seed-book-3
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-evening-star-book-12
Doesn't say they -all- were snake people tho. And the akaviri who came to cyrodil to eventually help lay the groundwork of the reman empire -were- at least in a large part akaviri humans, so... lore is fuzzy enough that ZOS can once again decide whatever suits their needs!
Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.
They would embellish historical facts to make them seem more incredible (as story tellers do in real life too). Taking lorebooks at face value would be like taking Greek myths at face value in our world.
*Sigh* I said it before and I'll say it again:
To chalk it all up to, yet again, "bias and transcription errors" and say they're human almost feels like self-parody at this point. That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity as opposed to a tool to make the world feel deeper.
How many times have we been through this? How much longer will we defend it with this tired argument? An unreliable narrator is not a cure-all for bland, inconsistent worldbuilding.
The only reality in the TES universe is what appears in the games. The lorebooks are just mythical embellishments.
Even Kirkbride envisioned the Tsaesci as an Asian-inspired human race.
Just like the Ayleids were once described as "bird men" with feathers and beaks, likely because of the style of armour they wore, so too is the likely reason why the Tsaesci were called "snake men" in some stories.
Saying that you're disappointed with how things are portrayed in TES games is like saying you're disappointed that ancient Greece didn't look like it was described in the Iliad.
We're arguing two completely different things.
I'm not saying lore books are more valid than what we see in game. This has nothing to do with in-universe validity. I'm saying a group of writers chose a more mundane explaination when they had several to choose from.
This isn't mythology written thousands of years ago based on mythological pseudo-history. Why are we even comparing the two? This is a game series designed in an office building. Zenimax gets to pick which interpretations they want to use, and which are the result of the unreliable narrator. They chose the path of least resistence as they so ofren do. Nothing is forcing them to do this. They're not working off ancient, scattered legends with bronze-age technology. They're making creative choices, and we're allowed to have opinions on them.
I never once said the akaviri weren't an asian inspired race, so I don't know what you're even talking about. I was saying that they squandered one potential way of taking them beyond JUST that. My earlier post was just one of many theories on how the tsaesci could have worked, that would've tied all the seeming inconsistencies about them together. Is it perfect? No. Are there other theories just as interesting? Dozens. Would any of those be more interesting than yet another "transcription error"? I think so. Apparently you disagree. That's fine.
But I stand by my point: That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity.
What exactly is more mundane about it. One thing that confused me is that people act like a race being beastfolk makes them more interesting than if they were human. It doesn't it just makes them look strange. It's the culture and history of the races that make each race interesting. Nobody should like a race soley because it's not human. There are way to many people who like khajiits and argonians for no other reason than their appearance. Whether the tsacsei are humans or not doesn't matter because it doesn't make them any more or less interesting.
What exactly makes it more mundane? Look at it this way. Lets use the theory on tsaesci I used as an example earlier. On one hand we have:
-Parasitic vampire-snakes that bore into the skulls of human corpses, posessing their bodies and slowly mutating them into more snake-like appearances, with a culture inspired by east asian cultures but going beyond that by showing how culturally alien a race that functioned this way would have to be.
Or.
-Asian people.
I'm not saying you cant do anything with the latter concept. I'm saying Zenimax effectively threw out a ton of OTHER interesting stuff they could've done as well. Its wasted potential, and ultimately far more mundane and "normal".
Maybe you like more realistic fantasy? Nothing wrong with that. But I don't. I much prefer when fantasy feels fantastical and alien, while remaining emotionally relatable and internally consistent. I would have loved to see Zenimax / Bethesda "humanize" these strange beings, without literally just making them human. Instead we got neither. A shallow character that's ultimately just a bland human.
What I'm hear is humans vs not humans. This one of the arguments I hate the most in elder scrolls. Because something is human that instantly makes it less interesting than walking cartoon snakes? Come on I hate the argument of human=normal without looking at anything else. Like is said them being human does not matter at all. If you think it does you are wrong what matters is how their lore and culture is addressed. What if argonians or dunmer suddenly became humans but kept their lore and culture. Would that make them less interesting. If you think so then you aren't really a real fan them. Humans=normal is one of the worst arguments I've heard and even attempting to use it makes you lose all credibility to me.Drachenfier wrote: »The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail
quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）
A picture tells it all
Akavir is a continent like Tamriel. It has probably many races and subraces, like Tamriel has.
I probably wont live long enought to see all of Nirn. Can we get 2 game updates a year please ?
starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.
So, much like your posts?
Sarcasm aside, information on the races of Akavir can be accepted with some reservations. Encounters with Akavir occured within living memory of the events of ESO. When multiple writers intersect with similar information (without one drawing on the other as their source), you can hesitantly start to accept some of that information as having some kind of basis.
While The Elder Scrolls does make use of unreliable narrators, simply ignoring everything that hasn't been personally witnessed is a bit excessive. So long as you remember the phrase, "contents subject to change," you should be fine.
The existence of a race of Akaviri snake people seems likely. The existence of other Akaviri races seems equally likely.
Nobody in recent years has seen. Tscasei. The recent Akiviri invasion was made up of Kamal which is a different race and none of the Invaders were described as snake like. The idea that the tscascei are just humans with lots of snake imagery seems more likely
They must have been described that way at some point, because I don't really follow the lore and just skim through lorebooks, however I do listen to and read all the quests and I was under the distinct impression all this time (since launch - and my first EP playthrough) that the Akaviri invasion was perpetrated by snake men.
It wasn't every source days that the recent akaviri invasion was headed by Kamal. If they were any tscascei then they were probably mercaneries but the Kamal made up and lead the invasion. I can understand your confusion as the tscaseci are the more represented of the akaviri races in terms of lore
If all you "heard" from my post is humans vs non-humans, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. You're reducing my argument to a single, easily dismissed sentence that doesn't even reflect what I think at all. This has less to do with what race the tsaesci are then it has to do with Zenimax throwing out an idea with a ton of potential in favor of going with a more "normal" interpretation.
The problem is I don't find your suggestion any more or less interesting. I don't find it a waste of potential either because the culture of each race matters far more than anything else. Like I said it's just people whining because they find humans boring
Can you stop putting words in my mouth and insinuating that I'm whining? I'm trying to have an actual discussion here. You realize that my profile pic is the redguard symbol right? I have no problem with humans in fantasy.
What you don't seem to understand about my viewpoint is that physiology and anatomy can have a massive impact on a society's culture. Thats the missed opportunity here.
I always liked the idea that Akavir was somehow fundamentally alien to Tamriel, and this was one way bethesda could've accomplished that.
They could've gone in any direction they wanted, and done SOMETHING with all the conflicting descriptions, and yet they decided to do nothing. It ultimately has nothing to do with their species. If the tsaesci were speculated from the beginning to be Japanese inspired HUMANS, with some OTHER bizarre trait, and zenimax decided to say "transcription error" and CHIM it away, i'd be making the exact same argument.
My other issue is that this is yet another example of Zenimax taking the less grounded, more fantastical elements of their lore and "toning it down". I'm just tired of it is all. Again, I understand that maybe you enjoy more realiatic, grounded fantasy. But thats not why a lot of us got into this series.
So no, I dont hate this simply because they're human. That's such a reductive take on what I'm saying here.
I'm starting to think we can't have this argument in good faith. You seem more concerned with putting words in my mouth, reducing my arguments into soundbytes, and insulting me by saying I'm "whining". So I'm done.
Lol your whole argument was about how mumans are mundane compared to your fan theory. It isn't and other people have even pointed this out. Zenimax seems to be taken the approach hinted at in older games. Like I said a book in Morrowind just calls them humans and I really don't see how parasites can develop a culture that can't be achieved if they weren't. I'm dismissing your arguments because you haven't made a good one and still haven't
Jesus dude I do not understand why you have to be so rude. Are just mad because of the ayleid discussion? I noticed you stopped responding to that one after we disputed your claim and started fighting with me here. Let it go. I'm gonna stop before this turns into a flame war.
Just for the record I don't care about "my" idea. It wasnt even my own theory. I was just using it as an example of how they could have used the snake references instead of throwing them out.
At the end of the day, we really just have drastically different tastes in fantasy it seems, which is fine. I enjoy humans based on lesser used cultures, elves that feel exotic and strange, and mysterious races that feel truly bizarre. Thats what seperated the elder scrolls from other fantasy for me.
I dont really see how its a sci fi idea for the tsaesci to be snakes though. Especially when we have things like the dwemer and the numidium stomping around.
None of the elves feel exotic at all except for the dunmer and that's partially a result of their religion and their environment being so radically different than every other Providence. They are the only race that feels alien to mem The altmer have more in common with bretons and imperials than the Redguards do and the bosmer have a lot of typical wood elf troops if we are being honest. Redguards are one of the most exotic races and they are humans. Also I apologize if I came off as rude earlier I was not in the best mood and I am so tired of the humans are automatically less interesting debate that I hear so often.
The problem is, Breton and Imperial civilization is derived from Altmer (Direnni and Ayleid) civilization. The established lore doesn't allow their society to be more alien.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 14, 2019 11:02AM0 -
psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »
I actually just didn't care enough to check any of the recect post on that thread. I'll go do that now I just don't think making them human makes them mundane and I feel like your idea doesn't work for anything but a sci-fi.if anything I find it less interesting then if they were just liamaspsychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »psychotrip wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »
Wrong. In this era at any rate.Nemesis7884 wrote: »Akaviri are mostly normal - asian - looking humans... but there are demi human races tigers, monkeys, snakes and yetis there as well
Once things over there were that way. Until the akaviri humans got driven out, or eaten... those driven out were part of the mix that became imperials, those eaten... became snakemen poo, presumably.
Exactly, "akaviri" are four races - snakepeople Tsaesci, monkeypeople Tang Mo, tigerpeople Ka Po'tun, and "snow demons" Kamal (which noone is really sure what that actually means, so the developers could do whatever. From yeti to bearmen to reptiles that hibernate in the cold...)1. The term Akaviri is a general term that refers to anyone from Akavir.
Anyhow, more into on akaviri there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1
IS confirmed.2. The Tsaesci being snake like beings is not confirmed anywhere...
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/why-tsaesci-may-or-may-not-have-legs-facts
...gives a good rundown of all the sources.
However, as that one points out... the sources about -how- snakey they might be are conflicting!
Of course, it could very well be that there are different flavors of snakeyness for the tsaesci, just like there are different flavors of cat-ness with the Khajiit... could be they have some "humanoid with legs and snakeskin" caste, and some "serpent-body" caste... (just like the D&D Yuan-ti!) right? Up to ZOS I reckon.
...until the akaviri invasion a decade before ESO, which may or may not have had some along.3. Even if there were actual Tsaesci snake people there were none left in Tamriel by the end of the first era.
...but by the Kamal.4. The 2nd era Akaviri invasion that was the impetus for the Ebonheart Pact was not lead by the Tsaesci.
But since noone can really tell from what little lore we have on that if they came all alone, or brought mercenary troops or slaves from the other races, well... ZOS can decide on whatever there.
There is info the potentates were. or at the very least... some of them.I said snake people, there is no actual evidence that the Akaviri Potentates were snake people.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/mysterious-akavir
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-morning-star-book-1
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-first-seed-book-3
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-evening-star-book-12
Doesn't say they -all- were snake people tho. And the akaviri who came to cyrodil to eventually help lay the groundwork of the reman empire -were- at least in a large part akaviri humans, so... lore is fuzzy enough that ZOS can once again decide whatever suits their needs!
Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.
They would embellish historical facts to make them seem more incredible (as story tellers do in real life too). Taking lorebooks at face value would be like taking Greek myths at face value in our world.
*Sigh* I said it before and I'll say it again:
To chalk it all up to, yet again, "bias and transcription errors" and say they're human almost feels like self-parody at this point. That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity as opposed to a tool to make the world feel deeper.
How many times have we been through this? How much longer will we defend it with this tired argument? An unreliable narrator is not a cure-all for bland, inconsistent worldbuilding.
The only reality in the TES universe is what appears in the games. The lorebooks are just mythical embellishments.
Even Kirkbride envisioned the Tsaesci as an Asian-inspired human race.
Just like the Ayleids were once described as "bird men" with feathers and beaks, likely because of the style of armour they wore, so too is the likely reason why the Tsaesci were called "snake men" in some stories.
Saying that you're disappointed with how things are portrayed in TES games is like saying you're disappointed that ancient Greece didn't look like it was described in the Iliad.
We're arguing two completely different things.
I'm not saying lore books are more valid than what we see in game. This has nothing to do with in-universe validity. I'm saying a group of writers chose a more mundane explaination when they had several to choose from.
This isn't mythology written thousands of years ago based on mythological pseudo-history. Why are we even comparing the two? This is a game series designed in an office building. Zenimax gets to pick which interpretations they want to use, and which are the result of the unreliable narrator. They chose the path of least resistence as they so ofren do. Nothing is forcing them to do this. They're not working off ancient, scattered legends with bronze-age technology. They're making creative choices, and we're allowed to have opinions on them.
I never once said the akaviri weren't an asian inspired race, so I don't know what you're even talking about. I was saying that they squandered one potential way of taking them beyond JUST that. My earlier post was just one of many theories on how the tsaesci could have worked, that would've tied all the seeming inconsistencies about them together. Is it perfect? No. Are there other theories just as interesting? Dozens. Would any of those be more interesting than yet another "transcription error"? I think so. Apparently you disagree. That's fine.
But I stand by my point: That excuse has become a crutch to justify mundanity.
What exactly is more mundane about it. One thing that confused me is that people act like a race being beastfolk makes them more interesting than if they were human. It doesn't it just makes them look strange. It's the culture and history of the races that make each race interesting. Nobody should like a race soley because it's not human. There are way to many people who like khajiits and argonians for no other reason than their appearance. Whether the tsacsei are humans or not doesn't matter because it doesn't make them any more or less interesting.
What exactly makes it more mundane? Look at it this way. Lets use the theory on tsaesci I used as an example earlier. On one hand we have:
-Parasitic vampire-snakes that bore into the skulls of human corpses, posessing their bodies and slowly mutating them into more snake-like appearances, with a culture inspired by east asian cultures but going beyond that by showing how culturally alien a race that functioned this way would have to be.
Or.
-Asian people.
I'm not saying you cant do anything with the latter concept. I'm saying Zenimax effectively threw out a ton of OTHER interesting stuff they could've done as well. Its wasted potential, and ultimately far more mundane and "normal".
Maybe you like more realistic fantasy? Nothing wrong with that. But I don't. I much prefer when fantasy feels fantastical and alien, while remaining emotionally relatable and internally consistent. I would have loved to see Zenimax / Bethesda "humanize" these strange beings, without literally just making them human. Instead we got neither. A shallow character that's ultimately just a bland human.
What I'm hear is humans vs not humans. This one of the arguments I hate the most in elder scrolls. Because something is human that instantly makes it less interesting than walking cartoon snakes? Come on I hate the argument of human=normal without looking at anything else. Like is said them being human does not matter at all. If you think it does you are wrong what matters is how their lore and culture is addressed. What if argonians or dunmer suddenly became humans but kept their lore and culture. Would that make them less interesting. If you think so then you aren't really a real fan them. Humans=normal is one of the worst arguments I've heard and even attempting to use it makes you lose all credibility to me.Drachenfier wrote: »The only Akaviri I found in Elsweyr is the sword master WB. She was wearing full armor so you can't tell her looks, but she certainly does not have a snake lower body or snake tail
quite a bummer, also I didn't find any interactable Akaviri in Rimmen or other places （That being said, the palace of rimmen don't have any NPC, so when ZOS fill it up we might see some Akaviri）
A picture tells it all
Akavir is a continent like Tamriel. It has probably many races and subraces, like Tamriel has.
I probably wont live long enought to see all of Nirn. Can we get 2 game updates a year please ?starkerealm wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nothing is confirmed in TES lore. All lorebooks from the past were written by unreliable narrators.
So, much like your posts?
Sarcasm aside, information on the races of Akavir can be accepted with some reservations. Encounters with Akavir occured within living memory of the events of ESO. When multiple writers intersect with similar information (without one drawing on the other as their source), you can hesitantly start to accept some of that information as having some kind of basis.
While The Elder Scrolls does make use of unreliable narrators, simply ignoring everything that hasn't been personally witnessed is a bit excessive. So long as you remember the phrase, "contents subject to change," you should be fine.
The existence of a race of Akaviri snake people seems likely. The existence of other Akaviri races seems equally likely.
Nobody in recent years has seen. Tscasei. The recent Akiviri invasion was made up of Kamal which is a different race and none of the Invaders were described as snake like. The idea that the tscascei are just humans with lots of snake imagery seems more likely
They must have been described that way at some point, because I don't really follow the lore and just skim through lorebooks, however I do listen to and read all the quests and I was under the distinct impression all this time (since launch - and my first EP playthrough) that the Akaviri invasion was perpetrated by snake men.
It wasn't every source days that the recent akaviri invasion was headed by Kamal. If they were any tscascei then they were probably mercaneries but the Kamal made up and lead the invasion. I can understand your confusion as the tscaseci are the more represented of the akaviri races in terms of lore
If all you "heard" from my post is humans vs non-humans, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. You're reducing my argument to a single, easily dismissed sentence that doesn't even reflect what I think at all. This has less to do with what race the tsaesci are then it has to do with Zenimax throwing out an idea with a ton of potential in favor of going with a more "normal" interpretation.
The problem is I don't find your suggestion any more or less interesting. I don't find it a waste of potential either because the culture of each race matters far more than anything else. Like I said it's just people whining because they find humans boring
Can you stop putting words in my mouth and insinuating that I'm whining? I'm trying to have an actual discussion here. You realize that my profile pic is the redguard symbol right? I have no problem with humans in fantasy.
What you don't seem to understand about my viewpoint is that physiology and anatomy can have a massive impact on a society's culture. Thats the missed opportunity here.
I always liked the idea that Akavir was somehow fundamentally alien to Tamriel, and this was one way bethesda could've accomplished that.
They could've gone in any direction they wanted, and done SOMETHING with all the conflicting descriptions, and yet they decided to do nothing. It ultimately has nothing to do with their species. If the tsaesci were speculated from the beginning to be Japanese inspired HUMANS, with some OTHER bizarre trait, and zenimax decided to say "transcription error" and CHIM it away, i'd be making the exact same argument.
My other issue is that this is yet another example of Zenimax taking the less grounded, more fantastical elements of their lore and "toning it down". I'm just tired of it is all. Again, I understand that maybe you enjoy more realiatic, grounded fantasy. But thats not why a lot of us got into this series.
So no, I dont hate this simply because they're human. That's such a reductive take on what I'm saying here.
I'm starting to think we can't have this argument in good faith. You seem more concerned with putting words in my mouth, reducing my arguments into soundbytes, and insulting me by saying I'm "whining". So I'm done.
Lol your whole argument was about how mumans are mundane compared to your fan theory. It isn't and other people have even pointed this out. Zenimax seems to be taken the approach hinted at in older games. Like I said a book in Morrowind just calls them humans and I really don't see how parasites can develop a culture that can't be achieved if they weren't. I'm dismissing your arguments because you haven't made a good one and still haven't
Jesus dude I do not understand why you have to be so rude. Are just mad because of the ayleid discussion? I noticed you stopped responding to that one after we disputed your claim and started fighting with me here. Let it go. I'm gonna stop before this turns into a flame war.
Just for the record I don't care about "my" idea. It wasnt even my own theory. I was just using it as an example of how they could have used the snake references instead of throwing them out.
At the end of the day, we really just have drastically different tastes in fantasy it seems, which is fine. I enjoy humans based on lesser used cultures, elves that feel exotic and strange, and mysterious races that feel truly bizarre. Thats what seperated the elder scrolls from other fantasy for me.
I dont really see how its a sci fi idea for the tsaesci to be snakes though. Especially when we have things like the dwemer and the numidium stomping around.
None of the elves feel exotic at all except for the dunmer and that's partially a result of their religion and their environment being so radically different than every other Providence. They are the only race that feels alien to mem The altmer have more in common with bretons and imperials than the Redguards do and the bosmer have a lot of typical wood elf troops if we are being honest. Redguards are one of the most exotic races and they are humans. Also I apologize if I came off as rude earlier I was not in the best mood and I am so tired of the humans are automatically less interesting debate that I hear so often.
The problem is, Breton and Imperial civilization is derived from Altmer (Direnni and Ayleid) civilization. The established lore doesn't allow their society to be more alien.
Except it does. It depends on how literally you interpret the whole "imperial civilization inspired by altmer" thing. In Morrowind they imply that this meant things like science, magic, mathematics, and the legal system was based on Altmeri principles. I believe the dunmer even call the empire a "cheap imitation". It didn't necessarilly mean that Altmeri society was visually or culturally similar to bretons or imperials, at least not fully.
Zenimax gets to decide whats literal, what's symbolic, and whats in between. They chose to interpret that concept in the most literal way, and to interpret most other things about the Altmer as exaggerations. It seems they're doing the same thing with Akavir, which is fine, but not what a lot of us were hoping for.No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.1
