Magblade died

kathandira

Apxac wrote: »

Thank you, apparently I will no longer play this game.

Your stuff, can I have it?

Mayrael

Maulkin wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

do you even play ranged magebalde?you go in melee range aswell to hit this skill because even a potato can dodge/block it and if the target is a bit out of range there you go the amazing heal.

I do, but obviously differently to you. When I play ranged magblade it is with MasterReach. So I use the spectral bow after I land the knockback to massive increase the change it lands. Simples.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah they might be dodgeable but they don't need a rump time and be casted twice to get something in return,like crystal frag it procs cost less and deal increase dmg aswell.

But that's a different issue, that's a cost issue not an issue with the heal. I'm all for reducing the cost of the base cast or granting a minor buff to justify the cost more. The only issue I have with the heal is that it should be 10m, not 7m, because that's too close and you will often fail to get the heal while actually in melee range.

Frag also deals less damage, heals less (Dark Magic is like <1k in PvP), is equally obvious and easily dodgeable, has a 4k base cost, ends up getting hard-cast in lag etc. It has its own issues, it ain't all rosy either.

I mained sorc for few years, I still play it with my guild mates because of better group utilities. I would exchange merciless for frags any time, even before nerf. Frags proc way more often and are not even close to being as telegraphed/easy to avoid as merciless. Completely two different worlds, on magblade you need to work very hard for every kill, sorc got it much easier.

As someone who plays both classes religiously for 4 yeas now, I completely disagree and especially before this patch I would have exchanged not only frags but I would have thrown in a good number of other abilities too for Merciless. It procs less often in PvP but the burst dmg is far superior and burst damage is what you kill people with. And there was also Minor Berserk.

What is also important in PvP is reliability. Merciless is not a reliable. Frags are much faster, doesn't give such obvious sound cue and have no delay after cast. I can literally hit 3x frags vs one Merciless. Yes burst kills but so does the pressure.

Apxac

Maulkin wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

do you even play ranged magebalde?you go in melee range aswell to hit this skill because even a potato can dodge/block it and if the target is a bit out of range there you go the amazing heal.

I do, but obviously differently to you. When I play ranged magblade it is with MasterReach. So I use the spectral bow after I land the knockback to massively increase the change it lands. Simples.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah they might be dodgeable but they don't need a rump time and be casted twice to get something in return,like crystal frag it procs cost less and deal increase dmg aswell.

But that's a different issue, that's a cost issue not an issue with the heal. I'm all for reducing the cost of the base cast or granting a minor buff to justify the cost more. The only issue I have with the heal is that it should be 10m, not 7m, because that's too close and you will often fail to get the heal while actually in melee range.

Frag also deals less damage, heals less (Dark Magic is like <1k in PvP), is equally obvious and easily dodgeable, has a 4k base cost, ends up getting hard-cast in lag etc. It has its own issues, it ain't all rosy either.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

also how is this a buff for melee since they just lost 8% increase dmg for something not realible and im more perplexed about youre logic to compare some spammable skill to one that as i said above have a ramp time and need to be casted twice to get the benefits.

You can keep being perplexed then. When did I say that losing Minor Berserk was a buff? I said the heal was useful addition (ergo buff) for melee. That it wasn't useless like you claimed. On the balance of things Merciless got nerfed. But melee magblade in general got buffed because there's snare immunity now and also any projectiles in your melee build (like Merciless) won't be reflected back to you by DKs.

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

fred4

Qbiken wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

What are you complaining about? This was a great patch for magblades!

Only a single nerf really, with the loss of Minor Berserk. But we get
1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

And before you say these are minor buffs compared to the loss, remember the best buffs are outside of the class.

1) MagDKs won't reflect all our crap back at us
2) If you find a slot (which you will) for Race Against Time, you get snare immunity, speed buff and minor force.

The class just became so much more playable!

Daus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Major defile removed only from incap. It's not like direct nerf, they simply push magblade to melee. Will it work or no.. future will show.

I guess Stamblades will switch to Soul Harvest then. I guess ZOS doesn't want Stamblades having an ult?

DBoS just like the rest of the stam builds now

This! Some of you might not like the playstyle, but Caluurion + Zaan exists and is already viable. This is a buff to melee magblade. I currently play 2H / resto. You get the speed buff from Concealed, snare removal from Forward Momentum, you fear people to get them off your back. You are super squishy, but it works. Your defense is speed + cloak more than shields and healing. Race Against Time is a huge deal. It means you no longer have to use the 2H sword, you can use a destro staff, which finally buffs light attacks to proper levels.

So magblade is viable because they can gank with the use if two proc sets??? Sounds like a class that needs more buffs than nerfs to me

ZOS chose to add proc sets to the game and, in Caluurion, they created a set that screams "magblade". Whether you agree with that, or not, what I'm saying is that you cannot ignore it. You cannot look at magblade skills in isolation and conclude that they need a buff because, if you do, you run the risk of overbuffing the set combo I mentioned.

For what it's worth, I agree that magblade healing has been heavily nerfed over time. Years ago, Kena made a video arguing that, out of all the classes, magblade could best sustain a healing-while-attacking playstyle. Can you still build for that? Sure. Is magblade the best at it? I highly doubt it. I'd vote for magden, then maybe mag DK and even stamsorc.

Since Kena argued this, while we've gained the Siphoning heal, a combination of nerfs from Funnel (no longer decent damage), to Swallow Soul (lost Minor Mending), to Strife double-dipping in crit, to the guaranteed crit heals in cloak, to removing the initial heal from Healing Ward, have left magblade healing in a really bad state, at least from a DD / solo perspective. To be honest, I don't mind, if that is the price for having cloak and shutting up "nerf cloak" threads. We've gained Steed, Swift and Meditate, which synergise well with the melee hit-and-run playstyle, and now Race Against Time. I'm already at the point where the shade felt redundant and I got rid of it for Fear. For my playstyle, the Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan, the snare immunity on RAT, and the increase in targets I can fear will all be significant buffs.

My build is the result of maining magblade for 3 years. It's my most finely-tuned build, the compromises that have best suited me. I always hated how Merciless works and I wanted to be able to fight any class. DK reflect and talons drove me to the 2H / resto playstyle long before Caluurion was introduced. With my build, at least, there is now a very interesting dynamic between playing in CP and no CP. It virtually feels the same in the healing department. Normally I feel heals are lacking in no CP, but because the build relies so heavily on damage avoidance, I don't feel this on my magblade.

I can, unfortunately, not speak for people who play ranged. Quite possibly magblade still needs buffs in that department. I don't feel qualified to offer an opinion, but want to say two things. The first is to say that melee magblade is genuinely viable open world whereas, in the past, it was not, or at least it paled compared to stamblade. I think that people who argue that magblade is dead simply haven't realised where the meta is going. The second is to be circumspect when proposing magblade buffs, lest you buff melee magblade even more. For my playstyle, I will be happy to try ZOS' new patch "as is" and take it from there.

Apxac

fred4 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

What are you complaining about? This was a great patch for magblades!

Only a single nerf really, with the loss of Minor Berserk. But we get
1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

And before you say these are minor buffs compared to the loss, remember the best buffs are outside of the class.

1) MagDKs won't reflect all our crap back at us
2) If you find a slot (which you will) for Race Against Time, you get snare immunity, speed buff and minor force.

The class just became so much more playable!

Daus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Major defile removed only from incap. It's not like direct nerf, they simply push magblade to melee. Will it work or no.. future will show.

I guess Stamblades will switch to Soul Harvest then. I guess ZOS doesn't want Stamblades having an ult?

DBoS just like the rest of the stam builds now

This! Some of you might not like the playstyle, but Caluurion + Zaan exists and is already viable. This is a buff to melee magblade. I currently play 2H / resto. You get the speed buff from Concealed, snare removal from Forward Momentum, you fear people to get them off your back. You are super squishy, but it works. Your defense is speed + cloak more than shields and healing. Race Against Time is a huge deal. It means you no longer have to use the 2H sword, you can use a destro staff, which finally buffs light attacks to proper levels.

So magblade is viable because they can gank with the use if two proc sets??? Sounds like a class that needs more buffs than nerfs to me

ZOS chose to add proc sets to the game and, in Caluurion, they created a set that screams "magblade". Whether you agree with that, or not, what I'm saying is that you cannot ignore it. You cannot look at magblade skills in isolation and conclude that they need a buff because, if you do, you run the risk of overbuffing the set combo I mentioned.

For what it's worth, I agree that magblade healing has been heavily nerfed over time. Years ago, Kena made a video arguing that, out of all the classes, magblade could best sustain a healing-while-attacking playstyle. Can you still build for that? Sure. Is magblade the best at it? I highly doubt it. I'd vote for magden, then maybe mag DK and even stamsorc.

Since Kena argued this, while we've gained the Siphoning heal, a combination of nerfs from Funnel (no longer decent damage), to Swallow Soul (lost Minor Mending), to Strife double-dipping in crit, to the guaranteed crit heals in cloak, to removing the initial heal from Healing Ward, have left magblade healing in a really bad state, at least from a DD / solo perspective. To be honest, I don't mind, if that is the price for having cloak and shutting up "nerf cloak" threads. We've gained Steed, Swift and Meditate, which synergise well with the melee hit-and-run playstyle, and now Race Against Time. I'm already at the point where the shade felt redundant and I got rid of it for Fear. For my playstyle, the Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan, the snare immunity on RAT, and the increase in targets I can fear will all be significant buffs.

My build is the result of maining magblade for 3 years. It's my most finely-tuned build, the compromises that have best suited me. I always hated how Merciless works and I wanted to be able to fight any class. DK reflect and talons drove me to the 2H / resto playstyle long before Caluurion was introduced. With my build, at least, there is now a very interesting dynamic between playing in CP and no CP. It virtually feels the same in the healing department. Normally I feel heals are lacking in no CP, but because the build relies so heavily on damage avoidance, I don't feel this on my magblade.

I can, unfortunately, not speak for people who play ranged. Quite possibly magblade still needs buffs in that department. I don't feel qualified to offer an opinion, but want to say two things. The first is to say that melee magblade is genuinely viable open world whereas, in the past, it was not, or at least it paled compared to stamblade. I think that people who argue that magblade is dead simply haven't realised where the meta is going. The second is to be circumspect when proposing magblade buffs, lest you buff melee magblade even more. For my playstyle, I will be happy to try ZOS' new patch "as is" and take it from there.

Dude, let's meet at Alikr and you tell me about your wonderful build, which shows itself so well up close.

Maulkin

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

Apxac

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

kaithuzar

For pc na I would like to think I’ve done better on my magblade in PTS Cyrodiil duels than my opponents would have initially thought. Can anyone I’ve fought comment or maybe they don’t come into magblade forums?

Maulkin

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

Apxac

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Maulkin

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Look at my profile. Played since Jan 2014 beta. I had a PvP magblade since 2015 and is my 3rd most played char after magsorc and magDK. Which is a lot over 4 years.

Again that has nothing to do with anything. If you feel that despite all the buffs this patch magblade is somehow dead, be my guest. You seem happy to believe that because the devs gave melee range heal, that somehow means they want force magblade into melee. I can't fight your emotions with logic it seems. So I'll let you deal with those.

EDIT: Dueling was always magblade's strong point.

kaithuzar

I think:
ASSUMING shade works, ranged magblade is potentially in a better spot than melee magblade.
Cripple got a buff & now you have access to snare immunity which was something the class really needed.
As long as you are using skoria, you shouldn’t have any problems with dps since you are weaving Destro + spammable, obviously you need to add 1 or two more ranged dots into the rotation for skoria but it still does well.

You could just play how stamina users play, build a tank & rely on ultimate aka Destro ult for kills the same way they crutch on dawnbreaker.

I think magblade has always been the type of class that isn’t perfect at range (sorc), but isn’t perfect at melee (dk), yet has some good things for both.
This makes its uniqueness appealing yet is a double edged sword because it also makes it both difficult to play & often underwhelming when forced to fight in a specific way.
I’m fine with the playstyle difficulty but imo melee damage is just terrible.
If ZOS doesn’t want to buff concealed damage the least they can do is make my attacks land! Make concealed undodgable!

Jeezye

Magblades have always needed some sort of oh *** heal button that they can rely on when their hots can't carry them back to full health. Dark cloak was supposed to fill this role, yet the healing was still subpar to every other classes burst heal options (dragon blood, breath of life, spores, twilight). Instead of buffing the skill to adequat healing, e.g. increasing burst healing upfront but reducing healing over time (something like 20%+ 20% over 5 seconds) they completly killed this ability again by providing another worthless hot that has absolutly no effect when compared to mutage or others.

AW heal is a joke as hitting the skill is increadibly unreliable and damage varies from 2-15k based on targets mitigation and status (blocking, wings, ...). Its a nice sustainable healing addition but can not solve the defensive issue every magblade is facing.

HaruKamui

I think overall magblades were buffed this patch with RAT snare immunity. That’s all I wanted.

The weird thing now though is that merciless’ first cast cost magicka for literally nothing. I would love it if it was a dormat skill that becomes active once 5 light attacks are done. Or make the first cast free.

Lack of burst heal is not a problem for my build because I have high recovery and hots, making the damage shield from light armor enough

Nerftheforums

Maulkin wrote: »

What are you complaining about? This was a great patch for magblades!

Only a single nerf really, with the loss of Minor Berserk. But we get
1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

And before you say these are minor buffs compared to the loss, remember the best buffs are outside of the class.

1) MagDKs won't reflect all our crap back at us
2) If you find a slot (which you will) for Race Against Time, you get snare immunity, speed buff and minor force.

The class just became so much more playable!

Daus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Major defile removed only from incap. It's not like direct nerf, they simply push magblade to melee. Will it work or no.. future will show.

I guess Stamblades will switch to Soul Harvest then. I guess ZOS doesn't want Stamblades having an ult?

DBoS just like the rest of the stam builds now

You use lotus fan in your magblade? Please tell me your bars, I'm really curious, because there is no way I can fit it on mine without a) throwing myself to suicide b) *** my survivability, mobility (lol) or damage

thankyourat

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Look at my profile. Played since Jan 2014 beta. I had a PvP magblade since 2015 and is my 3rd most played char after magsorc and magDK. Which is a lot over 4 years.

Again that has nothing to do with anything. If you feel that despite all the buffs this patch magblade is somehow dead, be my guest. You seem happy to believe that because the devs gave melee range heal, that somehow means they want force magblade into melee. I can't fight your emotions with logic it seems. So I'll let you deal with those.

EDIT: Dueling was always magblade's strong point.

Magblade will be dead this patch because it's the worse class. It was the worse class last patch as well. (maybe Stam sorc is just as bad) most of those buffs when you look at it aren't really going to help magblade. Like the sap damage increase. No one is going to use that ability. The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

HaruKamui

thankyourat wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Look at my profile. Played since Jan 2014 beta. I had a PvP magblade since 2015 and is my 3rd most played char after magsorc and magDK. Which is a lot over 4 years.

Again that has nothing to do with anything. If you feel that despite all the buffs this patch magblade is somehow dead, be my guest. You seem happy to believe that because the devs gave melee range heal, that somehow means they want force magblade into melee. I can't fight your emotions with logic it seems. So I'll let you deal with those.

EDIT: Dueling was always magblade's strong point.

Magblade will be dead this patch because it's the worse class. It was the worse class last patch as well. (maybe Stam sorc is just as bad) most of those buffs when you look at it aren't really going to help magblade. Like the sap damage increase. No one is going to use that ability. The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

Yes everyone got it, but magblade needed it the most. We will be the class that gains the most out of RAT. Other magtoons already had access to removal/mobility.

Imo it’s way too early to say that magblades are dead. I believe this is a step in the right direction. We do need more reliable damage now though. Maybe revert the merciless delay?

Lucky28

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Major defile removed only from incap. It's not like direct nerf, they simply push magblade to melee. Will it work or no.. future will show.

maybe but we can't really do melee all that well because we don't have heals. merciless is too easy to dodge to actually call that a reliable heal. nah, magblade was in serious trouble with the murkmire nerfs and they are still in serious trouble.

Lucky28

thankyourat wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Look at my profile. Played since Jan 2014 beta. I had a PvP magblade since 2015 and is my 3rd most played char after magsorc and magDK. Which is a lot over 4 years.

Again that has nothing to do with anything. If you feel that despite all the buffs this patch magblade is somehow dead, be my guest. You seem happy to believe that because the devs gave melee range heal, that somehow means they want force magblade into melee. I can't fight your emotions with logic it seems. So I'll let you deal with those.

EDIT: Dueling was always magblade's strong point.

Magblade will be dead this patch because it's the worse class. It was the worse class last patch as well. (maybe Stam sorc is just as bad) most of those buffs when you look at it aren't really going to help magblade. Like the sap damage increase. No one is going to use that ability. The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

i can fit lotus on my bar because merciless is now off my bar. it's just not reliable for a heal. i would prefer minor berserk back on it and swallow soul buffed, right now Ele weapon is my spammable (the damage potential is high) buffing the damage and heal on swallow soul would actually force me to make a choice.

thankyourat

HaruKamui wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Apxac wrote:

But why are we only talking about DK? There are other classes, why not change the Sorcerer and not forced him to fight close? I read the comments and understand that most of the people here have never played pvp for this class.

I can't understand how you reached the conclusion that anyone is forced to play melee. I can only assume you've not read the post. Making certain skills work better in melee range is far from forcing.

But why make other skills work worse in the far? I think everything is quite obvious.

I mean the argumentation you are using makes 0 sense, but if what you feel you need right now is a good crying session about how magblade is dead... go right ahead.

I asked many times and ask more. How much did you play magblade in pvp? How often do you see magblade in pvp now? How often does a magblade win duels with dk, sorcerers, templars and wardens? I have been playing this game for 3 years, almost all this time I have devoted pvp. I know what I'm talking about.

Look at my profile. Played since Jan 2014 beta. I had a PvP magblade since 2015 and is my 3rd most played char after magsorc and magDK. Which is a lot over 4 years.

Again that has nothing to do with anything. If you feel that despite all the buffs this patch magblade is somehow dead, be my guest. You seem happy to believe that because the devs gave melee range heal, that somehow means they want force magblade into melee. I can't fight your emotions with logic it seems. So I'll let you deal with those.

EDIT: Dueling was always magblade's strong point.

Magblade will be dead this patch because it's the worse class. It was the worse class last patch as well. (maybe Stam sorc is just as bad) most of those buffs when you look at it aren't really going to help magblade. Like the sap damage increase. No one is going to use that ability. The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

Yes everyone got it, but magblade needed it the most. We will be the class that gains the most out of RAT. Other magtoons already had access to removal/mobility.

Imo it’s way too early to say that magblades are dead. I believe this is a step in the right direction. We do need more reliable damage now though. Maybe revert the merciless delay?

I'm not so sure if magblade or Magden benefits the most from snare immunity but I do agree that it will help us alot. I'm not seeing a class that magblade is better than though maybe Stam sorc. Magblade self healing is still too low to be competitive in my opinion. I was thinking of playing a melee build but I'm not seeing away to get enough healing to make it viable the fear change will be nice though for escaping Zergs. The good part about snare immunity is that it makes the class alot less frustrating to play so while it's a combat buff it's a huge QoL change.

The 8% damage loss on merciless is a huge nerf because as everyone knows all magblade damage is unreliable not only because of wings but due to players dodge rolling and LoS/zoning so your damage. So now your damage is lowered while still much harder to land than other classes. Before I start moving magblade ahead of other classes I would like to see merciless projectile speed at least increased so the heal would be reliable.

fred4

thankyourat wrote: »

The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

You're tunnel-visioned on your (ranged?) build. Lotus Fan fits in perfectly with Caluurion and, in fact, buffs the proc damage. You might not want to build that way, you might despise proc sets, you might be more of a dueller or BG player than CP open world (me), but you must concede that Lotus Fan suits other builds, just not yours. The statement "no one is going to slot Lotus Fan" is simply false.

kaithuzar

I did the same, remove merciless & slot lotus fan.
I’ve always used sap & always used RAT & used blessing of protection as a burst heal, but maybe I’ll try combat prayer out instead now.

I think for ranged users that don’t want to be in melee range for sap, yet use tripots, rattle cage jewelry with 5 light is the way to go.

fred4

Apxac wrote: »

Dude, let's meet at Alikr and you tell me about your wonderful build, which shows itself so well up close.

I freely admit that I am quite good, but not that good. Alik'r duellers have kicked my a*** in the past and I haven't gone in a very long time. I also understand that many run duelling builds, whereas I don't. I play open-world CP, Cyro and IC, small-scale and large, that's what I build for.

You can call me a potato, if you want. I don't mind. Many people are potatoes relative to the top players in the game. However, when I duel people in my PvP guild, I draw or beat most of them, regardless of class. There are just the odd ones that truly stand out and beat everyone else handily. I am not that player nor - and this may be a crucial difference in our positions - do I think the classes should be exclusively balanced according to duelling performance by top duellers.

Lucky28

Maulkin wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

do you even play ranged magebalde?you go in melee range aswell to hit this skill because even a potato can dodge/block it and if the target is a bit out of range there you go the amazing heal.

I do, but obviously differently to you. When I play ranged magblade it is with MasterReach. So I use the spectral bow after I land the knockback to massive increase the change it lands. Simples.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

yeah they might be dodgeable but they don't need a rump time and be casted twice to get something in return,like crystal frag it procs cost less and deal increase dmg aswell.

But that's a different issue, that's a cost issue not an issue with the heal. I'm all for reducing the cost of the base cast or granting a minor buff to justify the cost more. The only issue I have with the heal is that it should be 10m, not 7m, because that's too close and you will often fail to get the heal while actually in melee range.

Frag also deals less damage, heals less (Dark Magic is like <1k in PvP), is equally obvious and easily dodgeable, has a 4k base cost, ends up getting hard-cast in lag etc. It has its own issues, it ain't all rosy either.

I mained sorc for few years, I still play it with my guild mates because of better group utilities. I would exchange merciless for frags any time, even before nerf. Frags proc way more often and are not even close to being as telegraphed/easy to avoid as merciless. Completely two different worlds, on magblade you need to work very hard for every kill, sorc got it much easier.

As someone who plays both classes religiously for 4 yeas now, I completely disagree and especially before this patch I would have exchanged not only frags but I would have thrown in a good number of other abilities too for Merciless. It procs less often in PvP but the burst dmg is far superior and burst damage is what you kill people with. And there was also Minor Berserk.

sure, yeah. may do more damage but it also misses 90% of the time. you can go on ahead and take 'mercilessly useless' and i'll take frags, as i'd prefer a burst ability that actually hits it's target.

josh.lackey_ESO

Maulkin wrote: »

1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

Looks like magblade got buffs. Not sure what the OP is talking about.

Minor Vulnerability is 8% increased damage, it's the same benefit at Berserk except is extra damage to the target for everyone rather than just the magblade.

thankyourat

fred4 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The same with lotus fan getting minor vulnerability but taking away minor berserk from merciless on paper it seems ok but in practice no one is going to slot lotus fan because how can you fit it on your bar. Without giving up a must have ability? So in reality the only buff magblade got was snare immunity which everyone got and then lost 8% damage all around.

You're tunnel-visioned on your (ranged?) build. Lotus Fan fits in perfectly with Caluurion and, in fact, buffs the proc damage. You might not want to build that way, you might despise proc sets, you might be more of a dueller or BG player than CP open world (me), but you must concede that Lotus Fan suits other builds, just not yours. The statement "no one is going to slot Lotus Fan" is simply false.

I play both range and melee builds as well as heavy armor. I play multiple builds for when I'm in the mood. I don't have a one size fits all build and I probably have more hours of playing melee magblade than almost the entire magblade population just because I've mained the class since launch. Lotus fan is simply not a competitive ability though. And if you give up merciless for lotus fan you literally just lost like 22k tooltip worth of damage and the only way to kill any player that knows what they are doing. It's not that I have anything against lotus fan it's just not worth it in my opinion especially when you look at how melee magblade can already get in and out of melee range at will which is the whole point of the gap closer.

Things that I feel are must run abilities on magblade right now are cloak, annulment, RAT, two siphoning abilities for both bars, either conceal or strife for a spammable, shade, healing ward or an additional hot. So right now that's 8 abilities leaving 2 flex spots available. Notable abilities that fit the flex spot would be mage light, elemental drain, merciless (I feel it's mandatory) and blur. I'm not seeing a way you can get lotus fan in there. Because elemental drain is also a 8% damage increase on your opponent while also giving alot of sustain, and merciless is literally the only burst ability available to magblade. So those abilities will both be better than lotus fan I think mage light would be better than lotus fan as well because the increase crit rate will synergize better with RAT. You can also put a lightning enchant on your staff and get minor vulnerability.

killingspreeb16_ESO

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

Looks like magblade got buffs. Not sure what the OP is talking about.

Minor Vulnerability is 8% increased damage, it's the same benefit at Berserk except is extra damage to the target for everyone rather than just the magblade.

1)That will miss most of the time and on a 7k spectral bow youre not going to get a strong heal out of it and does nothing until you do 5 light attack and need to be casted twice and if youre not in melee range well no heal.
2)but lost a snare and minor main.
3)no one use it right now we will see next patch.
4)only on build that actually use it otherwise you just lost 8% dmg.

Raikiki

The heal on spectral bow is useless for pve in my opinion....Losing my 8% dmg is a huge nerf for solo playing and for group content aswell. Dont like it

Lucky28

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

Looks like magblade got buffs. Not sure what the OP is talking about.

Minor Vulnerability is 8% increased damage, it's the same benefit at Berserk except is extra damage to the target for everyone rather than just the magblade.

we got damage buffs mostly. We didn't really need damage buffs what we needed was heals. as said merciless rarely hits so putting a heal on that ability is pretty much useless the only real reason to slot merciless is minor berserk will is far too unreliable. the problem with magblade is their survivability is in the gutter. unless ZOS removes the delay from merciless, that heal is not going to help.

brandonv516

I'd really like to see how Merciless Resolve works now.

Do I need to cast it still? Or does it automatically proc the Spectral Bow after the necessary light/heavy attacks?

I find it very weird even attaching a heal to that and I think it's going to need some work.