Magblade died

Kadoozy

Apxac wrote: »

Eldartar wrote: »

Erm, Bye then, have a nice day.

It is easy to talk to a person who has not spent a year of his life developing one class. The changes were unpleasant, but I suffered, now I'm in a rage. Who is involved in balance in this game? These are terrible changes for an almost dead class. Before writing such comments here, remember how often you see magblades in pvp now...

Okay well try playing for 5 years and having your main gutted and eventually rebalanced to a strong position over and over. You aren't special. Nightblades will be fine. Either give constructive feedback or quit crying. It is a game.

Iskiab

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Well, I logged onto PTS and did some BGs. Only two so take my experience with a grain of salt because of limited experience. Here’s some things I noticed you might want to incorporate in your playstyles. One deathmatch and one capture the relic where people ignored the objectives and just fought because... well... it’s PTS so you’re there to play and test:

- aoes are everywhere, spammed constantly
- every time someone tried using the resto ult they died. EVERY time. A channel that roots you is a non-starter as a magblade. Use Soul Siphon, it’s always been better you just haven’t tried it
- RAT is amazing
- My impression is that speed will be amazing to counter necros. Maybe because of the corpse mechanic? Idk much about them, but being mobile seemed to be effective
- the guard/tether changes effect ball groups a lot. They still ball up but sniping the healer is now a lot easier

I went in and tried my live spec adding RAT with little changes. 1 death and 6 kills in both BGs in my healing spec. Since people haven’t fine tuned playing a necro I expect my opponents to improve but ranged magblade I feel will be okay post patch.

P.S. - Rapid regen > mutagen

Appreciate the feedback from PTS. Hard to gauge competition in BGs on PTS I’m sure as no real MMR would be accounted for though. Nice to hear about guard changes.

Agreed. One thing though is most of the people playing in BGs on PTS would at least be pvpers or devs. I actually found the skill level higher then live (positioning and such), but I’m pretty sure with experience the people playing necro will be twice as good.

If you take one thing away from what I think at least try Soul Siphon. I think I die a little every time I see a magblade use the resto ult when NB has one of the best ultimates (not just best healing ultimate, one of best ultimates period) in game but no one uses it. That and I’d try speed.

Now that the resto ult no longer gives major protection you’re even more of a sitting duck if you try using it. You can kill vampires pretty easily on live now when they use it, on PTS people who tried seemed like free kills, impale in execute range does more damage then it heals.

Apxac

I don’t understand, people commenting on this and proving that the magblade is normal, you really don’t see that this is an obvious class nerf? Do you really think this is normal? I played on the PTS, I absolutely did not like what I saw. I think you write and talk a lot, but you play little of it. All the famous magblade players are crying, take a look at YouTube. In the discussion is the most insistent circus. "Hamsters" who have absolutely no idea what a magblade is, try to prove that the changes are good.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

If you take one thing away from what I think at least try Soul Siphon. I think I die a little every time I see a magblade use the resto ult when NB has one of the best ultimates (not just best healing ultimate, one of best ultimates period) in game but no one uses it.

I actually think it's a pretty common back bar ult for stamblade. In terms of it being better than the resto ult, before or after nerf, I don't see it. I've used it. It's expensive in exchange for having greater group utility. So, OK, if you are a healer or you value the group support, I guess I get your point, but as a solo player it has never suited me. Neither ult is necessarily the life saver that people make it out to be and, in PvP, you need your offensive ults anyway. If you frequently have the ult saved on solo NB, that means you didn't cast Incap / Soul Harvest near cooldown and are probably doing something wrong. For my purposes the cheaper back bar ult suits me better.

fred4

Apxac wrote: »

I don’t understand, people commenting on this and proving that the magblade is normal, you really don’t see that this is an obvious class nerf? Do you really think this is normal? I played on the PTS, I absolutely did not like what I saw. I think you write and talk a lot, but you play little of it. All the famous magblade players are crying, take a look at YouTube. In the discussion is the most insistent circus. "Hamsters" who have absolutely no idea what a magblade is, try to prove that the changes are good.

Crossing over from another thread: How would you feel if Merciless gave Major Sorcery or maybe even Major Sorcery + Major Prophecy? Having those buffs on Merciless would seriuously improve magblade bar space and facilitate pre-buffing in cloak for ganking / bombing playstyles. This would only buff magblade, not stamblade. As far as I'm concerned they could drop Sorcery from Sap as well as the IMO ill-conceived idea of turning Merciless into a damage + healing skill.

Apxac

fred4 wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

I don’t understand, people commenting on this and proving that the magblade is normal, you really don’t see that this is an obvious class nerf? Do you really think this is normal? I played on the PTS, I absolutely did not like what I saw. I think you write and talk a lot, but you play little of it. All the famous magblade players are crying, take a look at YouTube. In the discussion is the most insistent circus. "Hamsters" who have absolutely no idea what a magblade is, try to prove that the changes are good.

Crossing over from another thread: How would you feel if Merciless gave Major Sorcery or maybe even Major Sorcery + Major Prophecy? Having those buffs on Merciless would seriuously improve magblade bar space and facilitate pre-buffing in cloak for ganking / bombing playstyles. This would only buff magblade, not stamblade. As far as I'm concerned they could drop Sorcery from Sap as well as the IMO ill-conceived idea of turning Merciless into a damage + healing skill.

I think this is a really good idea. It would be nice to get these buffs from 1 class ability, I think it would solve the problem of a lack of slots for healing ability (a cloak no longer heals enough, but it gives a good protection in time). This is an interesting idea, I would test it.

And with healing it would be worth doing otherwise. It should be removed from Merciless, because it is simply useless. BUT the healing of Swallow Soul should be made stable, tied to the base damage, not to the damage done. This will solve all the problems of the class, I think. In addition, it is worth reviewing the flight time of the arrow, because this is the only burst damage at nightblade, but it is too slow, take a very long time and very easy to dodge.

mikemacon

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

exeeter702

Iskiab wrote: »

Well, I logged onto PTS and did some BGs. Only two so take my experience with a grain of salt because of limited experience. Here’s some things I noticed you might want to incorporate in your playstyles. One deathmatch and one capture the relic where people ignored the objectives and just fought because... well... it’s PTS so you’re there to play and test:

- aoes are everywhere, spammed constantly (including by me)
- every time someone tried using the resto ult they died. EVERY time. A channel that roots you is a non-starter as a magblade. Use Soul Siphon, it’s always been better you just haven’t tried it
- RAT is amazing
- My impression is that speed will be amazing to counter necros. Maybe because of the corpse mechanic? Idk much about them, but being mobile seemed to be effective
- the guard/tether changes effect ball groups a lot. They still ball up but sniping the healer is now a lot easier

I went in and tried my live spec adding RAT with little changes. 1 death and 6 kills in both BGs in my healing spec. Since people haven’t fine tuned playing a necro I expect my opponents to improve but ranged magblade I feel will be okay post patch.

P.S. - Rapid regen > mutagen

What channeled root?

Lucky28

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

hmm how about we increase the cost of frags, and give it a delay so it never hits.... good idea right, lets also nerf sorcs heals to nothing, oh we could also bug out streak so it never activates like shade. wouldn't that be fun?.

darkblue5

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

Bazeric

I killed mine long ago.

There was a time when magblades were shadowy blood mages. *Fire place flicker intensifies* ...I was glutton for choice of prey, I could freely swap my skills and my approaches to combat. It was wholly my choice whether to torment enemies out of their reach, or stare into the whites of their eyes as I drew from them their last breath. We survived by sapping their life force, all while striking fear into their bones. Enemies were even said to have feared their own shadows for fear that we would grow from them, strike them down, and vanish back into them it before their lifeless corpse hit the ground. It was a bountiful time when we were free to bounce from target to target, zerg to zerg. ......but then the winds shifted, something had started to change. The rules of war had changed.

The time had come where I was no longer allowed to survive off the pressure my fear exerted, the pressure that sapped the will of my opponents, thus we were forced deeper into the shadows... forced to prey on the weak and feeble... hardly the bounty that had once sustained our power. However, this lifestyle was sustainable for a time, given the plethora of weak and feeble prey that littered battlefield... but as such that well quickly began to dry. All the while, there had been a great famine hanging in the sky, like a moon, watching... waiting.... from above, ready to descend and leave only darkness. And so it did, descending and hitting as a torrent, washing across the land, purging all but the fittest. Life became a struggle of cannibalism. I was left preying on my own kind... we'd grown weak, we'd grown feeble. What little prey remained began to be shepherded by wolves. They say there is safety in numbers, and they aren't wrong. This time of shepherding blighted the land. Voids of consumption swallowed the grounds, salted the Nirn. Soon there was little left to be picked over. That's when the anemia wrought by the bloodless desert starved me of my power and I was left to wither away in the shadows I had once called home.

This has been:
Magblade, A Tale

By: Ashes and Dust

Jeezye

Bazeric wrote: »

I killed mine long ago.

There was a time when magblades were shadowy blood mages. *Fire place flicker intensifies* ...I was glutton for choice of prey, I could freely swap my skills and my approaches to combat. It was wholly my choice whether to torment enemies out of their reach, or stare into the whites of their eyes as I drew from them their last breath. We survived by sapping their life force, all while striking fear into their bones. Enemies were even said to have feared their own shadows for fear that we would grow from them, strike them down, and vanish back into them it before their lifeless corpse hit the ground. It was a bountiful time when we were free to bounce from target to target, zerg to zerg. ......but then the winds shifted, something had started to change. The rules of war had changed.

The time had come where I was no longer allowed to survive off the pressure my fear exerted, the pressure that sapped the will of my opponents, thus we were forced deeper into the shadows... forced to prey on the weak and feeble... hardly the bounty that had once sustained our power. However, this lifestyle was sustainable for a time, given the plethora of weak and feeble prey that littered battlefield... but as such that well quickly began to dry. All the while, there had been a great famine hanging in the sky, like a moon, watching... waiting.... from above, ready to descend and leave only darkness. And so it did, descending and hitting as a torrent, washing across the land, purging all but the fittest. Life became a struggle of cannibalism. I was left preying on my own kind... we'd grown weak, we'd grown feeble. What little prey remained began to be shepherded by wolves. They say there is safety in numbers, and they aren't wrong. This time of shepherding blighted the land. Voids of consumption swallowed the grounds, salted the Nirn. Soon there was little left to be picked over. That's when the anemia wrought by the bloodless desert starved me of my power and I was left to wither away in the shadows I had once called home.

This has been:
Magblade, A Tale

By: Ashes and Dust

LOL. Feels almost like I could relate irl xD

Jeezye

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

except magsorcs were strong af before nerfmire whereas magblade are already in a sorry state. secondly, sorcs didn't even receive direct nerfs, rather indirect through damage shield changes. Ironically, they turned out to handle these nerfs best due to the ludicrous scaling of hardened ward compared to dampen and healing ward.

Magsorc and magblade power levels are beyond being even comparable.

kaithuzar

@Jeezye ,

You should fight a necro if you haven’t yet.
Blast bones OP

fred4

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

It will be interesting to see where Caluurion ganking ends up. The Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan suits it, and the RAT change means you can ditch Forward Momentum in favor of a destro staff. These are buffs to that playstyle, or at least to my build variation of it, whereas stamblade (ganking) has received nerfs.

kaithuzar

fred4 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see where Caluurion ganking ends up. The Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan suits it, and the RAT change means you can ditch Forward Momentum in favor of a destro staff. These are buffs to that playstyle, or at least to my build variation of it, whereas stamblade (ganking) has received nerfs.

Yea 2% extra damage using Destro inferno over 2h sword, I guess we’ll take whatever we can get at this point.
I really wish they would’ve just applied the magicka version of fracture to concealed & been done. Nobody uses concealed in pve raids, it would be a straight buff to pvp magblade, which needs the extra damage, especially after removing 20 seconds of berserk in exchange for 8 seconds of vulnerability.

theshockcable

Woah woah.. there buckaroo!

You can get minor berserk from sets.
What you want is MAJOR berserk...

Next, you start ranting about DK's that's like not even the same class.

If you really need "healing" that badly
as you're concerned about equip a restoration staff
on your back bar.

Hope that helps!
- ENJOY!! 🤓

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

theshockcable wrote: »

Woah woah.. there buckaroo!

You can get minor berserk from sets.
What you want is MAJOR berserk...

Next, you start ranting about DK's that's like not even the same class.

If you really need "healing" that badly
as you're concerned about equip a restoration staff
on your back bar.

Hope that helps!
- ENJOY!! 🤓

Narrator: It doesn't.

darkblue5

theshockcable wrote: »

Woah woah.. there buckaroo!

You can get minor berserk from sets.
What you want is MAJOR berserk...

Next, you start ranting about DK's that's like not even the same class.

If you really need "healing" that badly
as you're concerned about equip a restoration staff
on your back bar.

Hope that helps!
- ENJOY!! 🤓

No magicka class can survive on resto heals/shields alone. No class can survive by merely adding the light armor shield.

Thus I deem this an excellent use of sarcasm. This statement is actually supporting magblade having a reliable defense of some kind added. HoT, bulk, whatever. I deem shockable to be for it, and I wholly concur!

fred4

kaithuzar wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see where Caluurion ganking ends up. The Minor Vulnerability on Lotus Fan suits it, and the RAT change means you can ditch Forward Momentum in favor of a destro staff. These are buffs to that playstyle, or at least to my build variation of it, whereas stamblade (ganking) has received nerfs.

Yea 2% extra damage using Destro inferno over 2h sword, I guess we’ll take whatever we can get at this point.

It's about the light attacks. 2H light attacks use weapon damage, stamina, weapon crit, physical pen, physical weapon expert CP. It makes them complete wet noodles on a magblade. My light attacks hit medium armor stamblades for 500. They crit me with light attacks for 3K. Switching to staff should mean light attacks more in line with stamblades. That's why RAT is a big deal.

I really wish they would’ve just applied the magicka version of fracture to concealed & been done.

I don't know. If they keep the Concealed speed buff, fine. However, if they traded that away for Breach, that would probably be the day I quit the game, because I seriously value the quality of life from that speed buff. Basically I don't want them to touch Concealed. I don't even want them thinking about it.

fred4

darkblue5 wrote: »

No class can survive by merely adding the light armor shield.

While I agree theshockcable is either a clueless noob or a troll, the above statement is IMO not true. Forgetting about sorcs, build a 50K magicka stacking warden (12.7K Dampen in CP), add just Living Trellis and bird / shalk spam (which heals them), and they arguably can survive quite well. Would I add further healing, perhaps Mutagen? Probably, but even without that they are in much better shape than magblade. I guess that is your sentiment, just the above statement didn't quite hit the mark for me.

fred4

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

I actually think you’ll be really happy with the changes when they hit live. It’s not just auto attacks you’re getting, destruction staff passives are miles better than 2 hander. RAT will help a ton. Minor vulnerability is better then minor berserk for damage, and it will make a fire staff a no-brainer choice.

Every class thread is full of ‘the sky is falling’ threads, even the classes that are getting buffed but the players are too dumb to see it.

Pvp wise Magblade’s not getting buffed, and I see the changes moreso as pushing the class into certain playstyles. Healers and ranged will be better off because of RAT and no reflections. Melee will be fine for ganking, but I’m not sure if the class has enough survivability for sap tanking and group play.

If you’re a melee magblade who only duels and does open world ganking I think you’ll be okay. Melee magblade for group play might have problems.

For group play here are the issues I see with melee magblade:
- aoes are going to be spammed making shadowy disguise useless
- dark cloak nerf/change meaning no burst heal
- minor vulnerability is fine solo, in group play it’s a status effect of lightning and don’t think it’ll add much with all the lightning damage out there
- NBs have access to major evasion in their class toolkit which is a major +. But without more self healing IDK if they can take advantage

Basicly for group play for melee NB to be okay sap tanking has to be possible. Maybe there is a way and I’m just not familiar with the playstyle enough to see it, but I’m thinking more self healing would be required. A skirmisher might work... but with more aoes out there I don’t think so.

Apxac

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

I actually think you’ll be really happy with the changes when they hit live. It’s not just auto attacks you’re getting, destruction staff passives are miles better than 2 hander. RAT will help a ton. Minor vulnerability is better then minor berserk for damage, and it will make a fire staff a no-brainer choice.

Every class thread is full of ‘the sky is falling’ threads, even the classes that are getting buffed but the players are too dumb to see it.

Pvp wise Magblade’s not getting buffed, and I see the changes moreso as pushing the class into certain playstyles. Healers and ranged will be better off because of RAT and no reflections. Melee will be fine for ganking, but I’m not sure if the class has enough survivability for sap tanking and group play.

If you’re a melee magblade who only duels and does open world ganking I think you’ll be okay. Melee magblade for group play might have problems.

For group play here are the issues I see with melee magblade:
- aoes are going to be spammed making shadowy disguise useless
- dark cloak nerf/change meaning no burst heal
- minor vulnerability is fine solo, in group play it’s a status effect of lightning and don’t think it’ll add much with all the lightning damage out there
- NBs have access to major evasion in their class toolkit which is a major +. But without more self healing IDK if they can take advantage

Basicly for group play for melee NB to be okay sap tanking has to be possible. Maybe there is a way and I’m just not familiar with the playstyle enough to see it, but I’m thinking more self healing would be required. A skirmisher might work... but with more aoes out there I don’t think so.

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

I actually think you’ll be really happy with the changes when they hit live. It’s not just auto attacks you’re getting, destruction staff passives are miles better than 2 hander. RAT will help a ton. Minor vulnerability is better then minor berserk for damage, and it will make a fire staff a no-brainer choice.

Every class thread is full of ‘the sky is falling’ threads, even the classes that are getting buffed but the players are too dumb to see it.

Pvp wise Magblade’s not getting buffed, and I see the changes moreso as pushing the class into certain playstyles. Healers and ranged will be better off because of RAT and no reflections. Melee will be fine for ganking, but I’m not sure if the class has enough survivability for sap tanking and group play.

If you’re a melee magblade who only duels and does open world ganking I think you’ll be okay. Melee magblade for group play might have problems.

For group play here are the issues I see with melee magblade:
- aoes are going to be spammed making shadowy disguise useless
- dark cloak nerf/change meaning no burst heal
- minor vulnerability is fine solo, in group play it’s a status effect of lightning and don’t think it’ll add much with all the lightning damage out there
- NBs have access to major evasion in their class toolkit which is a major +. But without more self healing IDK if they can take advantage

Basicly for group play for melee NB to be okay sap tanking has to be possible. Maybe there is a way and I’m just not familiar with the playstyle enough to see it, but I’m thinking more self healing would be required. A skirmisher might work... but with more aoes out there I don’t think so.

Even now it is not good. I have been playing magblade for a very long time, it is weak. He is weak for a long time and will become even weaker. I proposed solutions to the problem, I hope this will pay attention. Developers change the class as no player will play, these are meaningless and disastrous changes. Many good players are already talking about this, look YouTube, you will understand. Play this high-level pvp class and also understand. In fact, there is very little healing, it needs to be changed. But now we have less damage. Vulnerability needs to be added to the bow, not the lotus fan. Or at least let Merciless give us a Major Sorcery and a Major Prophecy, with the current changes in the cloak, we can take the ability to heal instead of the ability of the Mage guild (to enhance the crit). This will affect PvP, but will not affect PvE. Swallow soul healing should be made stable and permanent, independent of the damage done. I think this would solve all the problems of the class and make it truly competitive both in open battle and hidden.

Iskiab

Apxac wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

I actually think you’ll be really happy with the changes when they hit live. It’s not just auto attacks you’re getting, destruction staff passives are miles better than 2 hander. RAT will help a ton. Minor vulnerability is better then minor berserk for damage, and it will make a fire staff a no-brainer choice.

Every class thread is full of ‘the sky is falling’ threads, even the classes that are getting buffed but the players are too dumb to see it.

Pvp wise Magblade’s not getting buffed, and I see the changes moreso as pushing the class into certain playstyles. Healers and ranged will be better off because of RAT and no reflections. Melee will be fine for ganking, but I’m not sure if the class has enough survivability for sap tanking and group play.

If you’re a melee magblade who only duels and does open world ganking I think you’ll be okay. Melee magblade for group play might have problems.

For group play here are the issues I see with melee magblade:
- aoes are going to be spammed making shadowy disguise useless
- dark cloak nerf/change meaning no burst heal
- minor vulnerability is fine solo, in group play it’s a status effect of lightning and don’t think it’ll add much with all the lightning damage out there
- NBs have access to major evasion in their class toolkit which is a major +. But without more self healing IDK if they can take advantage

Basicly for group play for melee NB to be okay sap tanking has to be possible. Maybe there is a way and I’m just not familiar with the playstyle enough to see it, but I’m thinking more self healing would be required. A skirmisher might work... but with more aoes out there I don’t think so.

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yep! Just like sorcs died in Murkmire when shields were “nerfed”. Or when crystal frags were nerfed. Or when bolt escape was nerfed. That’s why nobody plays sorcs any more!

::he says, while merrily running around killing all the things on his perfectly fine sorc::

At the time reasonable people were recognizing that the change would at least offer a reliable defense. There is a chance that snare removal without vampirism's brutal vulnerabilities will be enough but doesn't sound like it from better players than me.

The current nerfs aren't why magblade is bad anyways. Magblade has been bad in open world for months and no one has found a better meta build than either Caluurion's ganks or Dark Cloak heals. And Dark Cloak heals are getting nerfed.

Neither build is at all better at what it is trying to do than the competition. Dark Cloak Nightblade was a worse magsorc and Caluurion's ganking is almost purely worse than stamblade ganking. It's only better against the squishiest of squishy targets aka other gankblades.

Doubt pvp magblade will get the help it needs this patch. 3-6 months maybe magblade will be worth playing again. There just isn't time to deal with why magblade is bad (because you can't build them to not crutch on cloak defensively and still have the pressure to kill more than true new players.)

P.S. Solo bombing has been getting deader as the hyper efficient tank sets and traits abound. (Protective Jewels, Impreg, Buffer o' Swift, Reactive, etc)

You seem to know what you're talking about. I basically agree and gave you an Insightful. Re-reading this, though, I want to argue with the bolded part, because I love my Caluurion ganker in open world specifically. Since the build is proc-based, it allowed me to care less about spell damage and invest in speed (Swift) and sustain.

I find a cloaking magblade speed build, such as mine, plays best in flat, open spaces, such as in the front of keep gates. Where the space is confined, it becomes easier for enemy players to lay down AOE or for sorcs to 100% predict my location and streak through me. I hate the narrow corridors of the IC sewers, as those are actually the most difficult places to cloak away in and reset the fight. As such, my magblade favors terrain not normally associated with 1vXing, nor possibly with stamblades.

In open spaces the magblade with that Concealed speed buff has an edge if you just move unpredictably enough. Most people probably view a Caluurion build strictly as a ganker. I don't. You can very well criss-cross through the middle of a large scale brawl in cloak, picking out targets as opportunites arise. I guess that's still called ganking, but it's not the 1v1 encounter in the middle of nowhere you might associate with the term.

Magblade just plays differently to stamblade, who doesn't have the same mobility in cloak, nor the sustain to keep it up. I, for one, love this playstyle and perhaps the trade of not being up to the same power level - at least not quite - is appropriate.

I actually think you’ll be really happy with the changes when they hit live. It’s not just auto attacks you’re getting, destruction staff passives are miles better than 2 hander. RAT will help a ton. Minor vulnerability is better then minor berserk for damage, and it will make a fire staff a no-brainer choice.

Every class thread is full of ‘the sky is falling’ threads, even the classes that are getting buffed but the players are too dumb to see it.

Pvp wise Magblade’s not getting buffed, and I see the changes moreso as pushing the class into certain playstyles. Healers and ranged will be better off because of RAT and no reflections. Melee will be fine for ganking, but I’m not sure if the class has enough survivability for sap tanking and group play.

If you’re a melee magblade who only duels and does open world ganking I think you’ll be okay. Melee magblade for group play might have problems.

For group play here are the issues I see with melee magblade:
- aoes are going to be spammed making shadowy disguise useless
- dark cloak nerf/change meaning no burst heal
- minor vulnerability is fine solo, in group play it’s a status effect of lightning and don’t think it’ll add much with all the lightning damage out there
- NBs have access to major evasion in their class toolkit which is a major +. But without more self healing IDK if they can take advantage

Basicly for group play for melee NB to be okay sap tanking has to be possible. Maybe there is a way and I’m just not familiar with the playstyle enough to see it, but I’m thinking more self healing would be required. A skirmisher might work... but with more aoes out there I don’t think so.

Swallow soul healing should be made stable and permanent, independent of the damage done. I think this would solve all the problems of the class and make it truly competitive both in open battle and hidden.

This is an excellent idea. Right now (I magblade heal) I never use swallow soul or funnel health because the healing is tied to my damage and I don’t run penetration in pvp. Plus people block, etc...

Make the healing amount based on stats and not damage done would be a great change. Right now it’s fairly easy for a tanky player to shut down a magblade’s main self healing skill. Zero pve effect, large pvp boost.

Yhoden

fred4 wrote: »

Apxac wrote: »

I don’t understand, people commenting on this and proving that the magblade is normal, you really don’t see that this is an obvious class nerf? Do you really think this is normal? I played on the PTS, I absolutely did not like what I saw. I think you write and talk a lot, but you play little of it. All the famous magblade players are crying, take a look at YouTube. In the discussion is the most insistent circus. "Hamsters" who have absolutely no idea what a magblade is, try to prove that the changes are good.

Crossing over from another thread: How would you feel if Merciless gave Major Sorcery or maybe even Major Sorcery + Major Prophecy? Having those buffs on Merciless would seriuously improve magblade bar space and facilitate pre-buffing in cloak for ganking / bombing playstyles. This would only buff magblade, not stamblade. As far as I'm concerned they could drop Sorcery from Sap as well as the IMO ill-conceived idea of turning Merciless into a damage + healing skill.

I never play with major sorcery buff, but this would be a really nice addition if they implimented

Zer0oo

Not sure if you all noticed but mag nb has now a snare immunity with the psijic skill. Yes some skills got nerfed but with being able to remove snares relay able mag blades should be hell a lot stronger than last patch for open world.

Maulkin

Zer0oo wrote: »

Not sure if you all noticed but mag nb has now a snare immunity with the psijic skill. Yes some skills got nerfed but with being able to remove snares relay able mag blades should be hell a lot stronger than last patch for open world.

You can be better than last patch and still be weak, tbf.

I'm personally not fussed by the loss of Minor Berserk, although they need to do sth with the cast of Merciless doing nothing while costing 2k magicka. My biggest remaining problem for me is the lack of decent HoTs or heals in general.

Too many of the heals are tied as % of damage which is a busted mechanic cause in PvP with all the damage mitigation and blocking and debuffs (Minor/Major Protection, Minor Maim) on top of Defiles..... those heals become worthless. They have changed a bunch of skills that were working that way, like Power/Crit Surge going from % of dmg done to a flat heal on every crit. They need to the same with more magblades skills like Funnel/Swallow so magblades can get some healing in combat detached from damage.

Apxac

Zer0oo wrote: »

Not sure if you all noticed but mag nb has now a snare immunity with the psijic skill. Yes some skills got nerfed but with being able to remove snares relay able mag blades should be hell a lot stronger than last patch for open world.

He felt fine without it. In addition, everyone got the ability, not just the Magblade, so this is a “buff” for all magic classes who will find a place for this ability. The changes I'm talking about would allow this skill to be added to the ability panel, but I'm not sure that people will still use it.

Kuramas9tails

Maulkin wrote: »

What are you complaining about? This was a great patch for magblades!

Only a single nerf really, with the loss of Minor Berserk. But we get
1) A heal on Spectral Bow
2) A better Fear CC (that also doesn't run opponents out of the map!)
3) Sap 25% dmg buff
4) Minor Vulnerability on Lotus fan/Teleport strike

And before you say these are minor buffs compared to the loss, remember the best buffs are outside of the class.

1) MagDKs won't reflect all our crap back at us
2) If you find a slot (which you will) for Race Against Time, you get snare immunity, speed buff and minor force.

The class just became so much more playable!

Daus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Major defile removed only from incap. It's not like direct nerf, they simply push magblade to melee. Will it work or no.. future will show.

I guess Stamblades will switch to Soul Harvest then. I guess ZOS doesn't want Stamblades having an ult?

DBoS just like the rest of the stam builds now

None of those are positives towards PVE Mageblades except Sap but rarely do Madeblades run Sap anymore at the cost of it and the ease of getting major sorcery from other aspects which don't cost magic (potion) or much cheaper to get (entropy 1650 Magic as opposed to 3240 magic for Sap)