Pet Targeting

Bashev

Minyassa wrote: »

Isn't the whole point of playing a pets build to have the pets run interference between you and mobs? If other players are the mobs, same thing. That's the point. Sounds like it is working as intended. Imagine how dungeon bosses feel. xD

If the dungeon bosses were able to complain believe me the forum would be full with nerf this, nerf that

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sure. Make them untargetable AND unkillable!

Can you read? I want them targetable only if I tab target them.

Trancestor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

IDK,

But what about LoS obstacles that stamina players permanently use to get out of sight and waiting for their ulti to build up?
How that does fit in your adjustment?

@Didgerion

The difference between using environmental LOS and pet LOS is that I can’t unintentionally use a single target ultimate or skill on a tree. Pet builds force you to waste resources and ultimates.

You don't WASTE them. You can and should kill the pet. You can't kill a tree.

Riiiight. When I’m in a deathmatch BG — where points are only granted for killing players — I should go ahead and kill the up to sixteen pets cluttering my screen at any given time while the four players controlling said pets lazily spam CC, heavy attacks, and executes behind their meat shield.

Edit: Also, you can’t kill a tree, but you CAN move away from the tree and force the other player to engage you in the open. They can’t drag that tree along with them. If you’re getting owned by environmental LOSers or tower farmers, you only have yourself to blame.

I hear you. It's annoying. And it has annoyed me for years that whenever I look at a melee player, I have to run around trees, towers and rocks for hours. Negating my ranged advantage. And then take the frontloaded burst, while I can't setup my backloaded one. Sure, I can walk away from the tree. And ignore the following camp, reses or whatever that player will inevitably do to hinder my faction.
I'm actually with you that LOS is annoying. But I find it satisfying to see "us" apply that logic to "you" and watch how you deal with it. Grim satisfaction for every Frag that has refused to fire because reasons. *shrugs*

To be clear, make pets untargettable when you also allow ranged attacks to hit people when they're in sight. And range, of course. Fair is fair, aye?

If people constantly LOS you then you're probably a zergling that goes after solo players, i've had only very rare occurances of someone LOSing me in a 1v1 or 1vx and when that happens those players are really bad or in a jack daniels build. L2P.

Haojin

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

mate, why do you have problem with pets ? lightling staff heavy attack is aoe (that is pretty much what you are doing %99) ! and please, cut the ***, you are one of that zoo lovers.

Bashev

Haojin wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

mate, why do you have problem with pets ? lightling staff heavy attack is aoe (that is pretty much what you are doing %99) ! and please, cut the ***, you are one of that zoo lovers.

Lighting and resto heavy attacks are with the worst targeting too. I have one pet too and I will suffer if this change is introduced. But I dont care about that. I think with that change the gameplay will be improved. Dont you think the same?

Edit: I am sorry that I dont follow the meta.

Haojin

mate, you are the one whos only heavy attack spamming in bgs with your cheesy infiltirator + maelstrom + elegance (torug?) + skoria setup. do you want more easymode ?

Qbiken

ZOS overbuffed pets in general (especially sorc pets that deal quite a bit of damage, compared to ww pets that barely does any damage at all). I highly question why pets gets such a heavy mitigation towards AoE damage. If you could AoE the pets down it would be a lot easier to deal with.

Bashev

Haojin wrote: »

mate, you are the one whos only heavy attack spamming in bgs with your cheesy infiltirator + maelstrom + elegance (torug?) + skoria setup. do you want more easymode ?

Yes that is my build (torug not elegance for more off balance). Can you post your build cause I dont know who you are?

If my build was so cheesy dont you think that it will be all over in PvP?

TheYKcid

Had a BG two days ago that had to less than four enemy Werewolves running Leader of the Pack. One enemy Sorc with Engine too, for good measure.

Every clash literally involved more NPCs than actual enemy players. Aiming any kind of single-target attack with any reasonable degree of accuracy and promptness becomes effectively impossible under such conditions.

This is straight-up abuse, and it's getting increasingly common as a result of the [completely unneeded] pet buffs, and people jumping on the bandwagon. Pet targeting needs to be completely overhauled at this point.

Maulkin

Signed. Couldn't agree more.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sure. Make them untargetable AND unkillable!

If they're gonna do that, they would have to completely remove Sorc pet light attack damage and only leave their special abilities.

Pet light attack dmg is like a DoT. You can purge DoTs or walk out of ground AoEs. But you can't walk away from pets since they follow you and you can't purge their dmg. So they need to be targetable, stunnable and killable if the defender is to have a way of stopping the incoming dmg like with all other dots.

Also DoTs have an application cost which needs to be reapplied at expiration. For Sorc pets that expiration is when they die. If they don't die, those Matriach zaps are a constant and 100% free dps with no way of negating it. Which is unbalanced af and would have to be removed.

So careful what you wish for.

Bashev

Maulkin wrote: »

Signed. Couldn't agree more.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sure. Make them untargetable AND unkillable!

If they're gonna do that, they would have to completely remove Sorc pet light attack damage and only leave their special abilities.

Pet light attack dmg is like a DoT. You can purge DoTs or walk out of ground AoEs. But you can't walk away from pets since they follow you and you can't purge their dmg. So they need to be targetable, stunnable and killable if the defender is to have a way of stopping the incoming dmg like with all other dots.

Also DoTs have an application cost which needs to be reapplied at expiration. For Sorc pets that expiration is when they die. If they don't die, those Matriach zaps are a constant and 100% free dps with no way of negating it. Which is unbalanced af and would have to be removed.

So careful what you wish for.

But Maulkin I want them targetable only when I tab target them. Otherwise I want my attacks just to miss them. I know there are some cases that I will want to kill, hit a pet. But in this case I can tab target and do that. So they will not be unkillable.

Maulkin

Bashev wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Signed. Couldn't agree more.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sure. Make them untargetable AND unkillable!

If they're gonna do that, they would have to completely remove Sorc pet light attack damage and only leave their special abilities.

Pet light attack dmg is like a DoT. You can purge DoTs or walk out of ground AoEs. But you can't walk away from pets since they follow you and you can't purge their dmg. So they need to be targetable, stunnable and killable if the defender is to have a way of stopping the incoming dmg like with all other dots.

Also DoTs have an application cost which needs to be reapplied at expiration. For Sorc pets that expiration is when they die. If they don't die, those Matriach zaps are a constant and 100% free dps with no way of negating it. Which is unbalanced af and would have to be removed.

So careful what you wish for.

But Maulkin I want them targetable only when I tab target them. Otherwise I want my attacks just to miss them. I know there are some cases that I will want to kill, hit a pet. But in this case I can tab target and do that. So they will not be unkillable.

That was a response to Emma not you. The first line of my message was the only one directed at the opening post.

I have my doubts about how much they can improve the targeting though. 5 years on and you still hit critters ahead of monsters in open world and dungeons. At least they removed critters from Cyro, but that kinda shows that the targeting system still prioritises the first thing in your aiming direction.

Bashev

Maulkin wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Signed. Couldn't agree more.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sure. Make them untargetable AND unkillable!

If they're gonna do that, they would have to completely remove Sorc pet light attack damage and only leave their special abilities.

Pet light attack dmg is like a DoT. You can purge DoTs or walk out of ground AoEs. But you can't walk away from pets since they follow you and you can't purge their dmg. So they need to be targetable, stunnable and killable if the defender is to have a way of stopping the incoming dmg like with all other dots.

Also DoTs have an application cost which needs to be reapplied at expiration. For Sorc pets that expiration is when they die. If they don't die, those Matriach zaps are a constant and 100% free dps with no way of negating it. Which is unbalanced af and would have to be removed.

So careful what you wish for.

But Maulkin I want them targetable only when I tab target them. Otherwise I want my attacks just to miss them. I know there are some cases that I will want to kill, hit a pet. But in this case I can tab target and do that. So they will not be unkillable.

That was a response to Emma not you. The first line of my message was the only one directed at the opening post.

I have my doubts about how much they can improve the targeting though. 5 years on and you still hit critters ahead of monsters in open world and dungeons. At least they removed critters from Cyro, but that kinda shows that the targeting system still prioritises the first thing in your aiming direction.

Yeah, I agree. And it will be worst with the new class. Pets will be everywhere.

Bomber293

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

This is so true! In BG with 2 pet sorcs as enemys it is just luck if you hit them or one of their 4 pets... Its just a pain. Even if you target the pets can bodyblock. I play on Console so 1mm adjustments to the crosshair are near impossible.


Would appreciate it alot if you change something

Aurielle

So many threads about this issue with zero dev acknowledgement:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459914/toggle-pet-targeting-please

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435761/pet-targeting-needs-to-change

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444651/fix-pet-targeting-please/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/449245/pets-and-werewolves-in-bg

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430770/option-to-toggle-target-pet-on-off-function-on-ps4-similar-to-the-attack-npc-option-that-exists

... to list but a few.

Lord-Otto

Trancestor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

IDK,

But what about LoS obstacles that stamina players permanently use to get out of sight and waiting for their ulti to build up?
How that does fit in your adjustment?

@Didgerion

The difference between using environmental LOS and pet LOS is that I can’t unintentionally use a single target ultimate or skill on a tree. Pet builds force you to waste resources and ultimates.

You don't WASTE them. You can and should kill the pet. You can't kill a tree.

Riiiight. When I’m in a deathmatch BG — where points are only granted for killing players — I should go ahead and kill the up to sixteen pets cluttering my screen at any given time while the four players controlling said pets lazily spam CC, heavy attacks, and executes behind their meat shield.

Edit: Also, you can’t kill a tree, but you CAN move away from the tree and force the other player to engage you in the open. They can’t drag that tree along with them. If you’re getting owned by environmental LOSers or tower farmers, you only have yourself to blame.

I hear you. It's annoying. And it has annoyed me for years that whenever I look at a melee player, I have to run around trees, towers and rocks for hours. Negating my ranged advantage. And then take the frontloaded burst, while I can't setup my backloaded one. Sure, I can walk away from the tree. And ignore the following camp, reses or whatever that player will inevitably do to hinder my faction.
I'm actually with you that LOS is annoying. But I find it satisfying to see "us" apply that logic to "you" and watch how you deal with it. Grim satisfaction for every Frag that has refused to fire because reasons. *shrugs*

To be clear, make pets untargettable when you also allow ranged attacks to hit people when they're in sight. And range, of course. Fair is fair, aye?

If people constantly LOS you then you're probably a zergling that goes after solo players, i've had only very rare occurances of someone LOSing me in a 1v1 or 1vx and when that happens those players are really bad or in a jack daniels build. L2P.

Looks to me you never met a good player. Do you know how HoTs like Vigor and mitigation of Soul Assault work? Yup, the stamina player better make use of LoS. The more you know.
And I can imagine you must be a reeeal asset to your alliance when you constantly let stragglers go so they can put up a camp or res whole groups. I guess if you're in a zerg alliance, you can afford that, so I get why you're saying that. Hm. But I don't have that luxury most of the time. Other alliance will exploit any distraction.
But who am I to bring actual strategic thinking into a PvP mode based around map control? I clearly need to kill my brain cells and L2P. That's also 800% more original and so, so constructive to discussions!

Didgerion

Dartricz wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

IDK,

But what about LoS obstacles that stamina players permanently use to get out of sight and waiting for their ulti to build up?
How that does fit in your adjustment?

LoS is a tactic and it's not only stamina characters that can do it, I do it on my mag dk all the time. Hitting a pet accidentally because of the targeting system is frustrating because it's not your fault it's the game

Yes but stamina characters use LoS more reliable. Best stamina players use LoS intensively to win 1vX fights. Hitting stamina player with ultimate does not help me in any way if they are successfully LoS-ing and vigor will fill their HP to 100%.
Also while stamina player is los-ing they charge their ultimate - an extremely bursty ultimate, also they are releasing roll-dodge penalty stack.

I'd say pet LoS and environmental LoS are quite comparable in annoyance.

oxygen_thief

Aurielle wrote: »

So many threads about this issue with zero dev acknowledgement:
... to list but a few.

they do acknowledge it thats why they will add one more class with pets

Toc de Malsvi

So I did a stamina version of this and it worked pretty well with very little investment.

Crown Poisons and Tri-pots, 1 piece impen, purple bow for offensive bar, gold VMA bow on back bar without using Hail(I got lazy). Did 3 BG's won 2 of 3 and led my team in score for each. Here's a video of the build followed by some short clips of the action. Turns out its hard for people to kill you if they cannot reliably target you, even if you are squishy AF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_0HaPlIuQQ&feature=youtu.be

To be fair this is an alt and doesn't play in a good BG bracket. But at the same time the build is stupid easy to put together and took no effort to have more than reasonable success versus other players. Just stack as many pet effects as possible and try and stay around/behind them. They do to the work for you and cause havoc for other players trying to target you.

InvictusApollo

Strange. Most of my pvp characters are ranged and I never had any problems with pets. Even when there were entire zoos in BG.

Positioning is also a pvp skill. Master it and you won't have issues with petsorcs.

Koensol

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Strange. Most of my pvp characters are ranged and I never had any problems with pets. Even when there were entire zoos in BG.

Positioning is also a pvp skill. Master it and you won't have issues with petsorcs.

Haha, yea I'm sure it is all just an L2P issue!

Trancestor

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

IDK,

But what about LoS obstacles that stamina players permanently use to get out of sight and waiting for their ulti to build up?
How that does fit in your adjustment?

@Didgerion

The difference between using environmental LOS and pet LOS is that I can’t unintentionally use a single target ultimate or skill on a tree. Pet builds force you to waste resources and ultimates.

You don't WASTE them. You can and should kill the pet. You can't kill a tree.

Riiiight. When I’m in a deathmatch BG — where points are only granted for killing players — I should go ahead and kill the up to sixteen pets cluttering my screen at any given time while the four players controlling said pets lazily spam CC, heavy attacks, and executes behind their meat shield.

Edit: Also, you can’t kill a tree, but you CAN move away from the tree and force the other player to engage you in the open. They can’t drag that tree along with them. If you’re getting owned by environmental LOSers or tower farmers, you only have yourself to blame.

I hear you. It's annoying. And it has annoyed me for years that whenever I look at a melee player, I have to run around trees, towers and rocks for hours. Negating my ranged advantage. And then take the frontloaded burst, while I can't setup my backloaded one. Sure, I can walk away from the tree. And ignore the following camp, reses or whatever that player will inevitably do to hinder my faction.
I'm actually with you that LOS is annoying. But I find it satisfying to see "us" apply that logic to "you" and watch how you deal with it. Grim satisfaction for every Frag that has refused to fire because reasons. *shrugs*

To be clear, make pets untargettable when you also allow ranged attacks to hit people when they're in sight. And range, of course. Fair is fair, aye?

If people constantly LOS you then you're probably a zergling that goes after solo players, i've had only very rare occurances of someone LOSing me in a 1v1 or 1vx and when that happens those players are really bad or in a jack daniels build. L2P.

Looks to me you never met a good player. Do you know how HoTs like Vigor and mitigation of Soul Assault work? Yup, the stamina player better make use of LoS. The more you know.
And I can imagine you must be a reeeal asset to your alliance when you constantly let stragglers go so they can put up a camp or res whole groups. I guess if you're in a zerg alliance, you can afford that, so I get why you're saying that. Hm. But I don't have that luxury most of the time. Other alliance will exploit any distraction.
But who am I to bring actual strategic thinking into a PvP mode based around map control? I clearly need to kill my brain cells and L2P. That's also 800% more original and so, so constructive to discussions!

Sounds like a zergling, speaks like a zergling and complains like a zergling, zergling confirmed.

ecru

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Strange. Most of my pvp characters are ranged and I never had any problems with pets. Even when there were entire zoos in BG.

Positioning is also a pvp skill. Master it and you won't have issues with petsorcs.

Targets are prioritized first based on distance, second on whether they're actually in your reticle or not. If the pet is closer to you but slightly off to the side, there is a good chance you will still attack the pet. Yes, you can "position" better so that the pet is further off to the side, but you don't have a perfectly flat plane in every direction and no objects in between you and the sorc that allows you to do this, and even if you did, repositioning is still time spent trying to get around pet targeting rather than actually hitting the sorc like you should be able to.

It's free mitigation no matter how you try to spin it or how "good" at positioning you suggest you are. Stop making excuses for it.

Lord-Otto

Trancestor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Currently the targeting system is really bad and this can be really exposed in the BGs.
ZoS please make all pets targetable only when they are exclusively tab targeted. Otherwise they should have the least priority.
Maybe only the Sorc and Necro ulties could be targetable and used for LoS as they are ulties and should be strong.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_Gilliam

IDK,

But what about LoS obstacles that stamina players permanently use to get out of sight and waiting for their ulti to build up?
How that does fit in your adjustment?

@Didgerion

The difference between using environmental LOS and pet LOS is that I can’t unintentionally use a single target ultimate or skill on a tree. Pet builds force you to waste resources and ultimates.

You don't WASTE them. You can and should kill the pet. You can't kill a tree.

Riiiight. When I’m in a deathmatch BG — where points are only granted for killing players — I should go ahead and kill the up to sixteen pets cluttering my screen at any given time while the four players controlling said pets lazily spam CC, heavy attacks, and executes behind their meat shield.

Edit: Also, you can’t kill a tree, but you CAN move away from the tree and force the other player to engage you in the open. They can’t drag that tree along with them. If you’re getting owned by environmental LOSers or tower farmers, you only have yourself to blame.

I hear you. It's annoying. And it has annoyed me for years that whenever I look at a melee player, I have to run around trees, towers and rocks for hours. Negating my ranged advantage. And then take the frontloaded burst, while I can't setup my backloaded one. Sure, I can walk away from the tree. And ignore the following camp, reses or whatever that player will inevitably do to hinder my faction.
I'm actually with you that LOS is annoying. But I find it satisfying to see "us" apply that logic to "you" and watch how you deal with it. Grim satisfaction for every Frag that has refused to fire because reasons. *shrugs*

To be clear, make pets untargettable when you also allow ranged attacks to hit people when they're in sight. And range, of course. Fair is fair, aye?

If people constantly LOS you then you're probably a zergling that goes after solo players, i've had only very rare occurances of someone LOSing me in a 1v1 or 1vx and when that happens those players are really bad or in a jack daniels build. L2P.

Looks to me you never met a good player. Do you know how HoTs like Vigor and mitigation of Soul Assault work? Yup, the stamina player better make use of LoS. The more you know.
And I can imagine you must be a reeeal asset to your alliance when you constantly let stragglers go so they can put up a camp or res whole groups. I guess if you're in a zerg alliance, you can afford that, so I get why you're saying that. Hm. But I don't have that luxury most of the time. Other alliance will exploit any distraction.
But who am I to bring actual strategic thinking into a PvP mode based around map control? I clearly need to kill my brain cells and L2P. That's also 800% more original and so, so constructive to discussions!

Sounds like a zergling, speaks like a zergling and complains like a zergling, zergling confirmed.

If bringing proper arguments into this discussion instead of mindlessly bashing other players makes me a zergling, so be it. Feel better now? Can the grown-ups continue their conversation now? Thank you.

Bashev

BGs are still very frustrating. If there are 3-4 sorcs in the game it means that there are at least 3-4 extra pets.
ZoS please find a solution for this.

Neloth

Bashev wrote: »

BGs are still very frustrating. If there are 3-4 sorcs in the game it means that there are at least 3-4 extra pets.
ZoS please find a solution for this.

Bring your own petsorc or petsorc-friend into BG?

Bashev

Neloth wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

BGs are still very frustrating. If there are 3-4 sorcs in the game it means that there are at least 3-4 extra pets.
ZoS please find a solution for this.

Bring your own petsorc or petsorc-friend into BG?

That is what I do. Otherwise ZoS will never fix that issue.

LordTareq

Now that I've started a pet sorcerer alt, pets are absolutely fine and targeting does not need to be fixed at all

katorga

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I don't have problems with the targetting to be honest, the problem is that the Twilight is just insanely overtuned.

Didn't they just get get nerfed?

Udrath

It's not that bad if you relax, chill out, and target them instead of the pet.

I mean their sacrificing two slots on both bars to slot a pet and suck, so fair. Except werewolves. Pack Leader Werewolves need like 1000% increased mass so their a bigger target. And they should be even bigger if their emperor. I seen Nords taller than these "Pack Leaders".

Lord-Otto

Bashev wrote: »

BGs are still very frustrating. If there are 3-4 sorcs in the game it means that there are at least 3-4 extra pets.
ZoS please find a solution for this.

Go to Cyrodiil? I'm sure your alliance could need you!
;3