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This has to be against the rules...
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Heelie✭✭✭✭✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
less than 1% of the population has done vCR +3, they can't "help" the 99% get it, this is why there is the pay barrierMost OwOrated healer of all time2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Because it's their free time and it's up for them to decide what to do with it.There is a huge difference between helping and carrying. If someone is helping you with a dungeon or something, you're still expected to pull your own weight and learn, and you don't have to be a top dd to do so. Carry, on the other hand, is essentially a service and you cannot expect free service from a total stranger (11 total strangers if we're talking about trial carries).
Sure, sometimes you might get free stuff and just like many other players I don't mind helping new players occasionally, but if someone demands something from me, I will refuse to help them on principle.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Mrslizardface✭✭✭I am part of running a group that sells carries and its my way of funding my gear potions etc. I spend so much time raiding I don't have much time to farm mats to sell so selling carries is much easier5 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Like IDC but what is the point of being carried through something like that... seems really boring to me. Why play a game that you're not going to actually play? I mean I guess if someone's a pure RPer and they want the skin but still, seems lame.
Not a lot of people do end game raiding or have the time to dedicate to a team. Raiding with a core with a set schedule is like a job
People just want the skins or titles, aka cosmetics. Let people pay with their wallets6 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
I have no issue helping people get their clears. That being said, it is a two-way street; you cannot expect a group of 11 players to help you indefinitely if you are not able to meet the requirements to get a certain achievement.
Think of it this way: the recommended self-buffed solo DPS parse for a clean vHoF clear is anywhere between 35k to 40k. If you aren't able to make that cut (regardless of whether that's because you can't play that often, you just can't seem to get rotations down, lag issues, etc.), then why should the rest of your raid group (that's 11 other people!) be expected to help you clear vHoF for free?
Patience and willingness to help does not equate to someone being able to get you to magically be able to clear the most difficult content in the game. You have to also put in effort and work to do so.
Again, many end-game raiders have no problems with teaching and helping. But expecting us to basically carry you through vet trials or vet dungeons for free? Now that is "just not nice".7 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uhm... OP...
Is this not pretty standard behavior in any MMO that is chock-full of MT's and has in in-game economy and completely based on free-trade and capitalistic philosophy?
If you've got the coin, you spend it on things you want, especially if it helps you avoid doing distasteful things.
Hey, if there's a market and a pool of buyers, why not make some coin off of it?
It's the way of the world.
The only way to avoid it is to make everything account bound and I don't think anyone really wants that.
It's not cheating though.
That would be like saying that I'm cheating because I get rewards and benefits by paying for my subscription.
I spend money. I get what I want. I don't have to work as hard as someone who's cheap.
What's wrong with that?6 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There’s all this; but also time. I want to spend my gaming time with my friends doing things we wanna do - and other than once a week to help people learn older trials, I don’t have real life time to spare to just give it away all the time, unless it matches with my own enjoyment in game.LadyNalcarya wrote: »kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Because it's their free time and it's up for them to decide what to do with it.There is a huge difference between helping and carrying. If someone is helping you with a dungeon or something, you're still expected to pull your own weight and learn, and you don't have to be a top dd to do so. Carry, on the other hand, is essentially a service and you cannot expect free service from a total stranger (11 total strangers if we're talking about trial carries).
Sure, sometimes you might get free stuff and just like many other players I don't mind helping new players occasionally, but if someone demands something from me, I will refuse to help them on principle.
Everyone expects everything to be handed to them anymore and it makes me kinda cranky.
5 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzzyStardust wrote: »
There’s all this; but also time. I want to spend my gaming time with my friends doing things we wanna do - and other than once a week to help people learn older trials, I don’t have real life time to spare to just give it away all the time, unless it matches with my own enjoyment in game.LadyNalcarya wrote: »kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Because it's their free time and it's up for them to decide what to do with it.There is a huge difference between helping and carrying. If someone is helping you with a dungeon or something, you're still expected to pull your own weight and learn, and you don't have to be a top dd to do so. Carry, on the other hand, is essentially a service and you cannot expect free service from a total stranger (11 total strangers if we're talking about trial carries).
Sure, sometimes you might get free stuff and just like many other players I don't mind helping new players occasionally, but if someone demands something from me, I will refuse to help them on principle.
Everyone expects everything to be handed to them anymore and it makes me kinda cranky.
GIMEE! GIMEE! GIMEE! Oh... and carry me through all the veteran dungeons too. I deserve it.
2 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've seen how much people are charging for those carries. It's mind-boggling. If someone can afford that, they've developed enough skill in some other aspect of the game to make millions, so who cares if they can't trial. They're a better seller/node farmer/crafter/something else than the average, and ZOS hasn't made any skins for kicking butt at crafting, so why not.8 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Unless you pay me for my patience I don't owe you my time and effort.
Do what I did. Get better and learn with a progressive group.
Why do players think that once we clear hard trials we are now obligated to put time, effort and money (potions cost ALOT) to teach someone that could disappear off the face of the earth once they get their skin and never come back to help others?!
You know how many people me and @Fang_of_Lorkhaj dragged through trials only to have them leave the second they got their skin?
ALOT. That's how many. ALOT. And they don't turn around and teach others, they disappear off to PVP to show off.
So if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna get rich.
Again, we don't owe you any of our time! I'm not getting paid to be a tutor. We all had fo get good to clear the hardest content, if wasnt handed to us. You grind levels, gear, weapons, pvp for MONTHS to be trial ready and then you have to learn mechanics too! None of it was easy and just it pays off now doesnt make it unfair.
You dont walk into a trial and magically have this outcome.Edited by TARAFRAKA on April 6, 2019 4:53PM7 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Unless you pay me for my patience I don't owe you sh*t.
Do what i did. Get better and learn with a progressive group.
Why do players think that once we clear hard trials we are now obligated to put time, effort and money (potions cost ALOT) to teach someone that could disappear off the face of the earth once they get their skin and never come back to help others?!
You know how many people me and @Fang_of_Lorkhaj dragged through trials only to have them leave the second they got their skin?
ALOT. That's how many. ALOT. And they don't turn around and teach others, they disappear off to PVP to show off.
So if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna get rich.
Again, we don't owe you any of our time!
Wow! Now that's a rant.
Did anyone say you owed anyone anything? So sometimes ya get played.
That's life.2 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Unless you pay me for my patience I don't owe you sh*t.
Do what i did. Get better and learn with a progressive group.
Why do players think that once we clear hard trials we are now obligated to put time, effort and money (potions cost ALOT) to teach someone that could disappear off the face of the earth once they get their skin and never come back to help others?!
You know how many people me and @Fang_of_Lorkhaj dragged through trials only to have them leave the second they got their skin?
ALOT. That's how many. ALOT. And they don't turn around and teach others, they disappear off to PVP to show off.
So if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna get rich.
Again, we don't owe you any of our time!
Wow! Now that's a rant.
Did anyone say you owed anyone anything? So sometimes ya get played.
That's life.
If you read what I replied to youd understand what I said.
It's not a rant it's the truth.
I dont sugarcoat stuff.
What this comes down to a person (OP) thinking the skins being given out for gold makes earned ones cheaper.
Most of the endgame community disagrees and it's been okayed by ZOS.
Then you have the guy I replied to essentially saying we should just help and be patient instead of having dps and playstyle requirements.
What he fails to realize is if we did that with 12 people WE WOULDN'T CLEAR IT ANYWAY.
Dps checks are real and that's a fact. No matter what we will always be carrying someone if their dps is lower that our highest dps but they compensate for the low dps.
You cant compensate for an unskilled player unless the other 11 are really really good. Getting to that level deserves perks. And gold is a perk.
We cant take 8 dps in like that. We'd never get pass the first boss.
If I'm going to put time and effort into a trial to get someone who is not as skilled a skin, best believe I'm going to get paid for it.
And I'm not alone.
If you look at our no death speed runs there is a very common theme.
Every player is carrying there own weight and performing their role.
I've done my fair share of teaching. I've made videos etc. This is almost two years old:
https://youtu.be/ZxVzvZTg_10
I was still learning then but I still tried to help. But not wanting to teach anymore doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I'm tired. I don't want to teach anymore.
It takes work. And coordination. That should be rewarded.Edited by TARAFRAKA on March 26, 2019 11:57PM7 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭kinguardian wrote: »In a way its sad why not just help people trough it. I am not a strong player myself. Just not so good at the dungeons but I do want some of those rewards. So because I am not a strong player people don't want to help me because my dps or way of playing is not good enough, but if I pay for it then that all doesn't matter.
Nah that's just not nice. Where is people's patience and willingness to help. Even if you have not much time at a certain point then you can always say a time and date that you can do it and then play and help people trough.
It maybe not illegal but it does leave a bad taste behind and it says a lot about the people doing it.
Unless you pay me for my patience I don't owe you sh*t.
Do what i did. Get better and learn with a progressive group.
Why do players think that once we clear hard trials we are now obligated to put time, effort and money (potions cost ALOT) to teach someone that could disappear off the face of the earth once they get their skin and never come back to help others?!
You know how many people me and @Fang_of_Lorkhaj dragged through trials only to have them leave the second they got their skin?
ALOT. That's how many. ALOT. And they don't turn around and teach others, they disappear off to PVP to show off.
So if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna get rich.
Again, we don't owe you any of our time!
Wow! Now that's a rant.
Did anyone say you owed anyone anything? So sometimes ya get played.
That's life.
If you read what I replied to youd understand what I said.
It's not a rant it's the truth.
I dont sugarcoat stuff
What this comes down to a person (OP) thinking the skins being given out for gold makes his earned one cheaper.
Most of the endgame community disagrees and it's been okayed by ZOS.
Then you have the guy I replied to essentially saying we should just help and be patient instead of having dps and playstyle requirements. What he fails to realize is if we did that with 12 people WE WOULDN'T CLEAR IT ANYWAY.
Dps checks are real and that's a fact. No matter what we will always be carrying someone if their dps is lower that our highest dps but they compensate for the low dps. You cant compensate for an unskilled player unless the other 11 are really really good. Getting to that level deserves perks. And gold is a perk.
We cant take 8 dps in like that. We'd never get pass the first boss.
If I'm going to put time and effort into a trial to get someone who is not as skilled a skin, best believe I'm going to get paid for it.
And I'm not alone.
Don't disagree with you at all.
Those of you who've put in the time and dedication to make it so far are under no obligation to carry anyone.
Me, while I'm not very good, don't expect to be carried. I stand on my own two feet or not at all.
I say - take advice, listen to criticism and improve with every time you take it.
As a new MMOer, and just starting to try teaming up rather than just being that anonymous person helping people out by making sure they stay alive and get buffs, I know I have a lot to learn.
And, yes... Gold is a perk. Well earned is well respected.3 -
Fang_of_Lorkhaj✭✭✭✭Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »I see nothing wrong here. I happen to consider myself an avid farmer of raw materials and make rather good gold in the process, with that being said, I also make much more "Gold" when hired to carry individuals through content that they cannot complete. I have 11 characters and that can be quite expensive to maintain with pots, gold food, etc. If I'm able to provide a service to an individual in return for compensation of gold, then I will. It simply sounds like a crying child from OP bc you aren't willing to pay to get something you want. Farm. Make gold. And do what every other person does who cant complete big content. Message someone like me. Not posting on forums.
Fang! My love! We got rich on this didn't we?
Those sure were the days. I moved to EU server since then. 1 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Btw while we are at it, how much would I need for help with vDSA runs for a Master's Inferno staff and where do I contact them?0 -
Fang_of_Lorkhaj✭✭✭✭Btw while we are at it, how much would I need for help with vDSA runs for a Master's Inferno staff and where do I contact them?
The common practice for that would be to have a group get to last boss. The last stage someone will drop and complete it with you in place. The going price is usually 100k gold per player who was part of the original group. Kinda risky due to the fact that you maybe get the drop you want but you do get all 4 master drops at the end.1 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Actually, technically it's not even illegal or immoral in real life situations. We have many a rich fellas hiring bodyguards, mercenaries that are paid for hire, anything that has a connection with services will and can be paid for.
You might feel aggrieved but honestly, they do them, you do you. At the end of the day, skins, gear and motifs gained by running trials are going to be put up in the crown store, sooner or later.
Also in dungeons, Bring the player, not the skins. Just my two cents.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Hostee✭✭✭Nope, I dedicate 7 nights a week to trials progression and it’s mighty expensive. Some people don’t have the time to dedicate to the game and want the skins. My guild provides a service and we have to work for the payout.1
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AlienSlof✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I was still learning then but I still tried to help. But not wanting to teach anymore doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I'm tired. I don't want to teach anymore.
It takes work. And coordination. That should be rewarded.
^ I agree with this lady. ^
This is a game, not a job. Why should this guy be forced to teach ALL the time? Isn't he also allowed to play for fun?
I paid for a Dro M'athra skin a good while ago, and I've been enjoying the use of it EVERY DAY since then. Best 1mil I ever spent, to be honest. Seeing how that group destroyed Rakkhat was truly an eye-opener for me; although I was also putting in the effort with my lesser dps, seeing them at work made me look like I was tickling Rakkhat!
Most of these really good, high dps players are a good deal younger than I am, with scalpel-sharp reaction times. Just like I was back in my Quake days. Now, I'm an older lady with some disabilities, and my reactions will never be that sharp again.
As it happens, I run with a progression group and we are working on vMoL at the moment - we are all older folks, so yeah, it's probably taking us a little longer, but we are determined to get there. I enjoy doing this with my little healer who wears the skin. I didn't lie about how I got it either. Honesty is always the better option.
Carries are a commodity in the game, just like vampire bites or stuff people sell in guild stores. Both parties benefit, so why is this even an issue with some people? Live and let live, for goodness sake.
*Fixed!
Edited by AlienSlof on March 27, 2019 11:54AMRIP Atherton, my beautiful little gentle friend. I will miss you forever. Without you I am a hollow shell.5 -
Mrslizardface✭✭✭Btw while we are at it, how much would I need for help with vDSA runs for a Master's Inferno staff and where do I contact them?
@HaruKamui my group charges 820k (on PC EU)0 -
Eweroun✭✭✭✭There is no problem with this practise in my opinion.
As long as you have to do the clear yourself, I don't see a problem.
If you want to pay for it... well, that's your choice.
--> don't forget, there never is a market if there is no demand
The point is, there is a certain group that asks money for the carry AND make people share their account with them so they can do the run.
--> This way of working should be reported, cause it is against the TOS.
|Lunar Lattice - Guildmaster / Fullmoon group raidlead|
|Potato Knights - former core member|
|former dd-"The Phoenix Reborn", former raidlead "Omnia Vincit /Playdead"|
clears: vCrag HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM (+2) - vCR+3 - vSS HM1 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭I was still learning then but I still tried to help. But not wanting to teach anymore doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I'm tired. I don't want to teach anymore.
It takes work. And coordination. That should be rewarded.
^ I agree with this chap. ^
This is a game, not a job. Why should this guy be forced to teach ALL the time? Isn't he also allowed to play for fun?
I paid for a Dro M'athra skin a good while ago, and I've been enjoying the use of it EVERY DAY since then. Best 1mil I ever spent, to be honest. Seeing how that group destroyed Rakkhat was truly an eye-opener for me; although I was also putting in the effort with my lesser dps, seeing them at work made me look like I was tickling Rakkhat!
Most of these really good, high dps players are a good deal younger than I am, with scalpel-sharp reaction times. Just like I was back in my Quake days. Now, I'm an older lady with some disabilities, and my reactions will never be that sharp again.
As it happens, I run with a progression group and we are working on vMoL at the moment - we are all older folks, so yeah, it's probably taking us a little longer, but we are determined to get there. I enjoy doing this with my little healer who wears the skin. I didn't lie about how I got it either. Honesty is always the better option.
Carries are a commodity in the game, just like vampire bites or stuff people sell in guild stores. Both parties benefit, so why is this even an issue with some people? Live and let live, for goodness sake.
I agree 100% but I'm a woman
0 -
ryzen_gamer_gal✭✭✭✭"i think people should play the way i decide because it's against the rules not to."
control freakery much?2 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭ryzen_gamer_gal wrote: »"i think people should play the way i decide because it's against the rules not to."
control freakery much?
Funny thing is I posted the statement Jessica Folsom made about this 2 years ago and every person that thinks this is wrong ignored it completely.
1 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭I was still learning then but I still tried to help. But not wanting to teach anymore doesn't mean I'm a bad person. I'm tired. I don't want to teach anymore.
It takes work. And coordination. That should be rewarded.
^ I agree with this chap. ^
This is a game, not a job. Why should this guy be forced to teach ALL the time? Isn't he also allowed to play for fun?
I paid for a Dro M'athra skin a good while ago, and I've been enjoying the use of it EVERY DAY since then. Best 1mil I ever spent, to be honest. Seeing how that group destroyed Rakkhat was truly an eye-opener for me; although I was also putting in the effort with my lesser dps, seeing them at work made me look like I was tickling Rakkhat!
Most of these really good, high dps players are a good deal younger than I am, with scalpel-sharp reaction times. Just like I was back in my Quake days. Now, I'm an older lady with some disabilities, and my reactions will never be that sharp again.
As it happens, I run with a progression group and we are working on vMoL at the moment - we are all older folks, so yeah, it's probably taking us a little longer, but we are determined to get there. I enjoy doing this with my little healer who wears the skin. I didn't lie about how I got it either. Honesty is always the better option.
Carries are a commodity in the game, just like vampire bites or stuff people sell in guild stores. Both parties benefit, so why is this even an issue with some people? Live and let live, for goodness sake.
I main a healer so imagine how stressful that is let alone trying to keep an unskilled player alive if we tried to teach a person in vCR+3. Some of these players have 12k health and no idea how to even survive let alone dps! They don't know how to weave or have good gear etc.
I did my time in the trenches.
If I'm held to a certain standard to pass content and I had to get good why would I then not expect that from others? And a healer has to get REALLY good cause we've got to keep us all alive. Perfect vitality does not come easy! We don't owe anyone a carry.
I didn't get 11 amazing players coaching me, we all put in time to progress together and it takes a stupid amount of coordination. It took 2 MONTHS to beat VMol.
I know looking at videos makes it look kind of easy but that's only because of the hours we've spent running with a core team wiping til we got it.
Some people will only see the 24 vitality in the video I posted and think of course they could help! They're really good!
But what they don't see is the 18 times we've reset just that one night because someone died at the second to last boss.
It's literally an unspoken rule to wipe and port out if someone dies. JUST ONE DEATH.
Do people not realize how hard this is??!Edited by TARAFRAKA on March 27, 2019 11:35AM2 -
Milchbart✭✭✭✭I feel like this should be against the rules, those rewards are supposed to be earned by playing, and not just paying, if you dont agree with me, put all the skins at the crownstore then...
But they do have to "play", right? They have to be part of the group and get dragged through the content. They need to not die,
Now every person i see with that skin, i instantly think they are bad players that paid for the skin
BTW, did you know that you can buy a flawless conqueror on ebay?
Since I saw this my respect for players wearing that title has fallen ...
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