Sorcs Need Some Love

Priyasekarssk

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Sorc are in a Decent sport right now, other classes are definetly in more need of love...

Stam and MagDK in PVE, Magwarden in PVE, stamsorc in PVE....just to name a few

Stam and MagDK in PVE, Magwarden in PVE, do need some buff only in PVE . But they are OP in PVP now. It will be way too OP if damage are buffed. Probably buffing only PVE skills could be good idea.

I know how many times I rage quit BGs if I get 3 mage sorcs in my team. Sometimes we stand in spawning location and dance. Remember its in High MMR BGs.
Mage sorcs needs some love for PVP and mage wrath fix for PVE. Wrath is complete broken and it takes forever to execute.

stamsorc in PVE need buff ? Are you serious ?

Priyasekarssk

Alucardo wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

That magblades ow need A LOT more help than magsorcs.

Wtf? It has superior sustain and damage, mobility from path and cloak. Sorc is nothing compared to magblade.

I hope you're joking. Mag sorc can sustain indefinitely on dark conversion alone, not to forget it also has a decent heal attached to it as a bonus. Mobility you got boundless storm and streak. Damage is a lot more forgiving on sorc as well, as curse can't be dodged, reflected or even blocked, whereas everything in the magblades kit is delayed and telegraphed.
The fact you even brought up path in an argument makes me laugh.

Mag sorc can sustain indefinitely on dark conversion alone . Only you are the one joking here . All leaderboards are filled with mageblades and stamblades , all garbages come here and vomit nonsense. Do you people have no work other than vomiting lies in forums ?

Prutton

Quoting myself from another post:

Prutton wrote: »

Magsorcs are actually in a good spot. They might need some adjusts here and there, but they have their identity. Stamsorcs, on the other hand, have nothing that makes them special. Let's compare their identity to other classes:
- Stamplars: Jabs and PotL.
- Stamdens: Dive and Sub Assault
- Stamblades: Killer's Blade and Relentless Focus
- Stamdks: Ok, these guys also need some love, but at least their class makes the best tanks.
- Stamsorcs: Rending Slashes or Crushing Weapon?

One might argue that the identity of stamsorcs lies in Surge and Hurricane. However, most end game players use potions instead of surge, and Hurricane is more of a defensive tool than an actual attack. Casting a skill every one and a half rotation doesn't qualify as identity.

In short, stamsorcs lack good passives, spammable, execute and synergies. My suggestions to improve stamsorcs are:
- Change Crystal Blast into a stamina morph with "Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Physical Damage. Melee, instant, deals less damage, and cost less". Damage and cost should be adjusted so it is better to use than Rending Slashes and Crushing Weapon. That way, stamsorcs get access to a spammable and can make use of the passive Blood Magic.
- Change Endless Fury into a stamina morph with "Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Physical Damage. Increases threshold to 22-25%". That way, they get access to an execute.
- Change Lightning Flood into a stamina morph with "Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Physical Damage. Increases the damage". That way, stamsorcs get access to a synergy.
- Change Bound Armor to be an active buff with long duration, count as an untargetable pet (like warden's netch), with the effect "give Minor Protection" instead of the block mitigation buff. Change both morphs to give bonus while the skill is active instead of slotted. Also, change the passive Daedric Protection to "while you have a pet active" instead of ability slotted. That way, you free a slot from sorcerers (no need to double bar) and make all passives from that tree useful to stamsorcs.

Strider__Roshin

They're one of the strongest specs in the game currently, and too powerful with pets.

Yeah they definitely don't need a buff.

carlos424

Alucardo wrote: »

Sorc damage feels higher than ever, so I definitely don't want to see them buffed in that department. With a good enough stam pool/regen you can live on dark conversion for sustain. People who complain about sustain are usually the ones not doing anything to actually facilitate in managing their own resources, and expect their class to just carry them.
Mag sorc is in a spot where it's very hard to buff without overtuning them.

If you like running around with a pet, then, yes, the pets got a buff. Problem is that you have to double bar them leaving no room for anything for survivability other than the shield. Sorcs are way squishy without decent resistances. You almost have to run lightning form or surge for resistance or heals. But what skill will you drop? Frags? Ele weapon? Prey? Blockade? Liquid lightning? No, no, and no. Dropping any of these puts dps in the tank. So you are forced to drop inner light or aegis, losing max magicka. Without the pet, sorc dps drops like 7-8k. You also loose the health buff which is a killer. You almost have to run a pet. The petsorc dps parses look impressive but in practice......eh.

first_kodiak

I've never met someone who uses dark exchange in PvE. The cast time of dark conversion makes it a waste of time. We also have limited bar space and it just doesn't fit. Same is true of boundless storm for the most part. It gives you major ward and such, but the speed boost only lasts for 4 seconds now and it doesn't do enough damage to justify slotting it. For pve, the execute is also mostly a waste of space. It is slow and just can't compete.

For pve non-pet builds 8 out of 10 bar slots are pretty much fixed. Crystal frags, liquid lightning, force pulse or elemental weapon, blockade, curse, bound aegis x 2, and inner light on main bar. That gives two flexible slots. One of those is either surge for the heal or a shield. I prefer surge because shields are magicka-hungry to sustain in pve. For the last slot using channeled acceleration for minor force is pretty hard to beat in terms of dps.

For a pet sorc it is even worse. 2x pet, 2x pet, inner light, curse, blockade, liquid lightning, bound aegis on main bar at least. If you want bound aegis on both bars then that is all 10 slots. Otherwise you can put surge or a shield in the back bar instead. If you drop a pet you gain slots, but lose a lot of dps.

Sustain hasn't been great since morrowind. My magsorc is a breton and if I try to keep the full rotation going without heavy attacks I still burn through magicka really fast. I do agree with one of the early comments though that buffing magsorc is difficult because it would be all to easy to put it back into top slot for everything on accident. Sorc has really good aoe dps, which nightblade lacks somewhat, so that needs to be balanced too. My stamsorc werewolf has amazing single target, without much effort in werewolf form, but distinctly lacks any aoe abilities beyond hurricane and rain of arrows. Its a trade off.

I'd say there are two things easily agreed on. First, mage's wrath is lackluster at best. Workable for pvp, but outclassed overall by everyone else's executes. Second, stamsorc could use a bit more class synergy. That isn't easy to do without upending the current setup for the class as a whole though, which is probably why they haven't done much with it yet.

Minalan

Sorcs need some minor bug fixes and QoL improvements. NO BUFFS!

Bastion doesn't work when health capped, but shattering blows sure as hell does. It should reduce damage on shields with a huge diminishing returns curve, not increase the size.

The shielding bug is still creeping around, it's supposed to be fixed.

Meteor is still giving bonuses on the wrong bar.

Streak needs to lose the pause and momentum loss after a cast.

Overload needs an overhaul, the skill is just a terrible mess right now. The projectiles are too slow, the targeting bad, the animation is clunky, and losing ultimate Regen with OL active is just too much. Increase the cost if you have to, just make it work.

Trying to cast a pet heal too soon after a summon shouldn't cancel the whole thing and resummon it. It should just wait a second for the heal, or even better do nothing until the pet shows up - not re-channel the whole thing.

Please fix the visual bug where you end up with two of the same looking staves after using a shrine or entering a dungeon.

Fix the bugs and we'll be fine.

tinythinker

Nerftheforums wrote: »

That magblades ow need A LOT more help than magsorcs.

it isn't a zero sum game

still wish they would give use more on what they think is "wrong" with some classes

trying for equal/symmetrical balance rather than staggered/asummetrical balance could lead to lots of dull/boring

Alucardo

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

That magblades ow need A LOT more help than magsorcs.

Wtf? It has superior sustain and damage, mobility from path and cloak. Sorc is nothing compared to magblade.

I hope you're joking. Mag sorc can sustain indefinitely on dark conversion alone, not to forget it also has a decent heal attached to it as a bonus. Mobility you got boundless storm and streak. Damage is a lot more forgiving on sorc as well, as curse can't be dodged, reflected or even blocked, whereas everything in the magblades kit is delayed and telegraphed.
The fact you even brought up path in an argument makes me laugh.

Nobody runs dark conversation nor boundless and streak.

And they are the ones who complain they have no sustain or mobility, even though their toolkit provides it lmao

Prutton

We should separate very well characters in 5 categories: stamina, magicka, healer, tank and PVP. All those play with different skills and need to be balanced individually. Most of the times, changing the skills from one category doesn't affect the others at all. Who else uses Dark Deal and Streak other than PVP?

Sorcerers are in a good spot both in magicka and PVP category. They both could get some improvement here and there, but too much and they become overpowered.

On the other hand, healers and tanks are not even accepted for trials in organized groups. They could definitely get some new skills/morphs and buffs.

Finally, we have stamina sorcerers, the main reason for complaints in the community. They are just like playing dps without skills or passives. Any other class provides more identity and better passives. Get any class without a single point in class skills and you will still have almost the same impact as a stamina sorcerer. They don't have passives, spammable, execute or sustain.

I believe major changes to sorcerers should be aimed at the stamina, healer and tank variants.

Ryanoxx

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Sorc are in a Decent sport right now, other classes are definetly in more need of love...

Stam and MagDK in PVE, Magwarden in PVE, stamsorc in PVE....just to name a few

Stam and MagDK in PVE, Magwarden in PVE, do need some buff only in PVE . But they are OP in PVP now. It will be way too OP if damage are buffed. Probably buffing only PVE skills could be good idea.

I know how many times I rage quit BGs if I get 3 mage sorcs in my team. Sometimes we stand in spawning location and dance. Remember its in High MMR BGs.
Mage sorcs needs some love for PVP and mage wrath fix for PVE. Wrath is complete broken and it takes forever to execute.

stamsorc in PVE need buff ? Are you serious ?

I don't see why Sorcs would need a buff in PvP. Sorcs are really strong in PvP compared to other Magicka Classes because of their mobility due to streak and their sustain through Dark Conversion. The Amplitude passive allows to burst enemies down in no time. Everyone who says Streak and Conversion aren't useful and doesn't refere to PvE probably doesn't know what he is talking about (Not refering to the quoted post). In BGS pets are really strong right now and I'm afraid Zenimax will force Sorcs to run pets. Sorc is the last Magicka Class that I think needs to be changed right now. Zenimax should rather take a look at classes like MagDks which are struggling when it comes to mobility and defense if not building for a tank (also due to not existing healing with defile on a DK). Im talking from a Solo and Smallscaler PvP perspective. I'm neither refering to PvE nor Zergs. I play multiple classes just to make clear that I'm not for buffing one class and making everything else worse. If you think Magicka Sorcerers don't perform well in PvP I suggest checking out Malcolm. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMFVcLp4BlH-Ytp_P3hFh0w

Chilly-McFreeze

TBH I was really hyped when the whole class balance mindset came up. But reading the notes, realizing that all they did for stam sorcs was letting streak scale with the highest stats, really disappointed me.

It seemed like the chance to give them some soul. Not even talking about numerical buffs here but to move them from being a walking weapon skill to something that feels like an actual class. Don't get me wrong, the utility is nice. Surge, Dark Deal, Streak are good and defining, but Bound Armor is still dead weight, half the passives are borderline useless, damage comes only from Hurricane (and streak, ha-ha) and the ultimates cater to magsorcs more than ever.

With (stam) Necromancer on the horizon there is little to no point left playing my stam sorc anymore. I should have seen it coming but like the saying goes: hope dies last. But it dies.

martijnlv40

It really seems sorcs got the least love in the class updates. Both mag and stam, but stam needed it harder. Too bad, I hope they change some more in the upcoming weeks.

Chilly-McFreeze

martijnlv40 wrote: »

It really seems sorcs got the least love in the class updates. Both mag and stam, but stam needed it harder. Too bad, I hope they change some more in the upcoming weeks.

Doubt. First week sets the general direction. After that it's mostly numbers tweaking.

martijnlv40

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

It really seems sorcs got the least love in the class updates. Both mag and stam, but stam needed it harder. Too bad, I hope they change some more in the upcoming weeks.

Doubt. First week sets the general direction. After that it's mostly numbers tweaking.

Yeah that's true. I'm looking to a bit more resource management, so give an extra percentage or two to the passive, or something like that. Let's hope that with the next update it is better (as we always say if we're a bit dissapointed).

Crixus8000

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TBH I was really hyped when the whole class balance mindset came up. But reading the notes, realizing that all they did for stam sorcs was letting streak scale with the highest stats, really disappointed me.

It seemed like the chance to give them some soul. Not even talking about numerical buffs here but to move them from being a walking weapon skill to something that feels like an actual class. Don't get me wrong, the utility is nice. Surge, Dark Deal, Streak are good and defining, but Bound Armor is still dead weight, half the passives are borderline useless, damage comes only from Hurricane (and streak, ha-ha) and the ultimates cater to magsorcs more than ever.

With (stam) Necromancer on the horizon there is little to no point left playing my stam sorc anymore. I should have seen it coming but like the saying goes: hope dies last. But it dies.

I agree. I just haven't enjoyed my stamsorc in so long. Just nerfed in multiple patches now and it feels so weak compared to how it used to be. I was hopeful but instead it got nothing basically and I got a dizzy nerf and my food is nerfed, so I'm even weaker. Just getting tired of it.

Chilly-McFreeze

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TBH I was really hyped when the whole class balance mindset came up. But reading the notes, realizing that all they did for stam sorcs was letting streak scale with the highest stats, really disappointed me.

It seemed like the chance to give them some soul. Not even talking about numerical buffs here but to move them from being a walking weapon skill to something that feels like an actual class. Don't get me wrong, the utility is nice. Surge, Dark Deal, Streak are good and defining, but Bound Armor is still dead weight, half the passives are borderline useless, damage comes only from Hurricane (and streak, ha-ha) and the ultimates cater to magsorcs more than ever.

With (stam) Necromancer on the horizon there is little to no point left playing my stam sorc anymore. I should have seen it coming but like the saying goes: hope dies last. But it dies.

I agree. I just haven't enjoyed my stamsorc in so long. Just nerfed in multiple patches now and it feels so weak compared to how it used to be. I was hopeful but instead it got nothing basically and I got a dizzy nerf and my food is nerfed, so I'm even weaker. Just getting tired of it.

Funny note: every patch I waste a couple thousand gold to turn my stam sorc into a hybrid. The past frag changes killed one nice combo. The issues with Wrath made it nearly pointless to begin with and now the curse into dizzy combo gets mangled as well. Guess I can save the gold this time.

BTW the issue with dizzy never really was that 0.2s afterwards but the long wind up paired the opponent's movement speed that made it difficult to land. But hey, if I now can magically land some in a row I'll deal more damage. Guess that's a win, right? But I can still spam rending slashes to no end. Talk about skill reward and build diversity.

universal_wrath

To make things clear and sum up the whole thing. Stam sorcs need stamina based class abilities to use rather than going for weapons and other skill lines.
Warden,templar, nb and even mag sorcs are able to play both pvp and pve on class based abilities not weapons and other things.

MartiniDaniels

Just make pets function for a duration of 30 seconds. All problems solved, you will have 2 more bar slots for sustain skills

heng14rwb17_ESO

NERF NB BUFF SORC !

Ananoriel

I never had any issues with my magsorc, especially if you compare it to other classes. It feels like one of the strongest dd classes out there.

Vexarius

The design of the necromancer class sets a great model for how to do a class with great options across stamina, healing, tank and mag options. What’s good about necro having so many stamina morph options is that they can balance morphs separately and there’s a clear choice for players between the two rather than them weakening one or dividing up the benefits to try to make the other more chosen. Look at crystal frags - nobody uses the aoe morph and they never have. Turn it into a stamina ability. Same with the aoe atro ultimate. Do the same with summon options like the necromancer (clannfear?). Lightning splash was originally divided/nerfed like this as well which is why the more chosen option is so small, give it a Stam option. Then, rework the dark magic tree to give it its dark magic identity and find a solution to bar space / single use abilities. Make dark deal a more viable slottable sustain option for pve - it needs some other benefit (and change it’s awful animation - the energy exchange animation between two hands in the worm wizard personality springs to mind) nb has siphoning strikes, warden blue Betty which gives major sorcery, necro shocking syphon which does damage. I always felt like the health return functionality of power surge was more themed for a dark magic skill line - Damage + get health back. Just some thoughts.

katorga

Not sure why you would play sorc over necromancer, but that is probably the point, $$.

WrathOfInnos

Pet Sorc is in a great place right now, one of the top ranged DPS. However I would like to see non-pet Sorc be a little more competitive. I think the only way to do this is to buff the skills that a pet sorc cannot utilize due to morph choices and bar space. Haunting Curse would be the obvious one here, since pet builds need to use Daedric Prey. Slight buffs to Bound Aegis and Endless Fury would also help, since a single pet Sorc can maybe fit one of these 2 skills, but they certainly can’t fit both. I would gladly give up a few % of Twilight damage if it meant a better execute and more offensive Bound Aegis.

kookster

Magsorc doesnt need anything, stamsorc does. Stamsorc is literally bottom of the barrel.

Priyasekarssk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Pet Sorc is in a great place right now, one of the top ranged DPS. However I would like to see non-pet Sorc be a little more competitive. I think the only way to do this is to buff the skills that a pet sorc cannot utilize due to morph choices and bar space. Haunting Curse would be the obvious one here, since pet builds need to use Daedric Prey. Slight buffs to Bound Aegis and Endless Fury would also help, since a single pet Sorc can maybe fit one of these 2 skills, but they certainly can’t fit both. I would gladly give up a few % of Twilight damage if it meant a better execute and more offensive Bound Aegis.

First learn to play and come with facts. This is not place for noobs with some garbage lies. Have spell strategist with skyoria perfected + Zaan + maelstrom lightening staff back bar.
Pet sorc is not top dps. Not even close. In fact its a lot lower in PVE compared to other classes. Only thing its easy to play for noobs .
In fact non pet magic sorc is way higher dps than pet sorc in high end with atleast 3k-5K higher . DPS Gap is closer with magicka NB. Still magicka NB is king of mage dps. Only place pet sorc shines is duels in PVP. Apart from that it has no use . Forum is full of bunch of liars.

mocap

are you sure they need more love?

- 51k dps, self buffed, with overland only gear, outside of vma and monsters
- 80k+ dps on that fancy target dummy with trial buffs
- all damage is AoE, so works well against everything
- 4 skills (!) rotation with heavy attack
- infinite sustain without atro mundus, mag regen glyphs, drink and even potions (assuming heavy attack at each rotation)
- blue food
- 19k hp without even a single hp glyph or monster set
- off healer support (pet burst heal)
- crazy selfheal from Surge (4200 crit per second)

Still need more love?

Priyasekarssk

mocap wrote: »

are you sure they need more love?

- 51k dps, self buffed, with overland only gear, outside of vma and monsters
- 80k+ dps on that fancy target dummy with trial buffs
- all damage is AoE, so works well against everything
- 4 skills (!) rotation with heavy attack
- infinite sustain without atro mundus, mag regen glyphs, drink and even potions (assuming heavy attack at each rotation)
- blue food
- 19k hp without even a single hp glyph or monster set
- off healer support (pet burst heal)
- crazy selfheal from Surge (4200 crit per second)

Still need more love?

Your stats are not correct.

TequilaFire

Magsorcs are strong in PvP, they just like to say they are not to divert nerfs to other classes.

Prutton

After patch notes, I just gave up on any hope to get positive changes to stamina sorcerers. At least there were no nerfs this time.