Maintenance for the week of February 18:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox One: EU megaserver for maintenance – February 20, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 4.3.4 is available. You can find the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459684/
The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Critical Damage Tests between Dunmer and Khajiit. Proof that Dunmer getting higher crit dmg 4.3.3

nsmurfer
nsmurfer
✭✭✭✭
3.9k Weapon Damage without Dunmer Bonus


Khajiit No-CP
jkucu9848ipy.png
Dunmer No-CP
dz22hur7mnd0.png
Khajiit CP
5p0plrrdqrmh.png
Dunmer CP with HP equalized
s8z3cft0a9fw.png
Dunmer CP with no HP equalization
fu7f82sitz3u.png

Simplification

Khajiit No-CP - 4913 crit dmg
Dunmer No-CP - 4887 crit dmg
Khajiit CP - 6201 crit dmg
Dunmer CP with HP equalized - 6215 crit dmg
Dunmer CP with no HP equalized (already had 17k+ HP, so not needed) - 6776 crit dmg

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett @Masel @Checkmath @Joy_Division

Please don't tell me this is intended!!! Dunmer/Orc/Altmer beating Khajiit in crit dmg means Khajiit is virtually useless. It will just get worse the higher critical dmg modifier I stack.

It is very similar to the condition of Shadow on live

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/366347/shadow-vs-warrior-apprentice-whats-the-point-of-shadow

Edited by nsmurfer on February 11, 2019 11:57PM
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
    ✭✭✭✭
    I can use Major Force and It will further push values in the favor of Dunmer.
  • Colecovision
    Colecovision
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank so much for the testing. There's too much talk with no numbers. Hopefully, they respond to this and ignore every comment without actual evidence.
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
    ✭✭✭✭
    CP5 wrote: »
    You realize the point of showing this is that the dunmer racial bonus for weapon damage results in more crit damage than a khajiit that has a crit damage racial, those differences are the point.

    Yes but thats logical. Thats only true to a certain extent though. Once you hit a certain amount of weapon dmg then adding on more weapon dmg will increase the dmg for less and less percentage wise. So at a certain point Crit dmg will become more effective than weapon dmg.

    If he had 2k weap dmg then picks a dunmer over a kajit he will crit way harder as he adds buffed about 20% weapon dmg to his bas weapon dmg and thus his hits before crit harder and so also after crit hit harder as everyone has a base multiplayer of 50% anyways.

    If he had 4k and picks a dunmer then that extra weap dmg he gets is comparative a much smaller percentage about 8% and thus he will crit harder if he picks kajit instead because he gets that flat 10%

    As higher he goes in weapon dmg as better kajit is compared to dunmer and vise versa. Now we just need @Gilliamtherogue to tell us where these meet before and after cp is applied.
    .
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dr.NRG wrote: »
    CP5 wrote: »
    You realize the point of showing this is that the dunmer racial bonus for weapon damage results in more crit damage than a khajiit that has a crit damage racial, those differences are the point.

    Yes but thats logical. Thats only true to a certain extent though. Once you hit a certain amount of weapon dmg then adding on more weapon dmg will increase the dmg for less and less percentage wise. So at a certain point Crit dmg will become more effective than weapon dmg.

    If he had 2k weap dmg then picks a dunmer over a kajit he will crit way harder as he adds buffed about 20% weapon dmg to his bas weapon dmg and thus his hits before crit harder and so also after crit hit harder as everyone has a base multiplayer of 50% anyways.

    If he had 4k and picks a dunmer then that extra weap dmg he gets is comparative a much smaller percentage about 8% and thus he will crit harder if he picks kajit instead because he gets that flat 10%

    As higher he goes in weapon dmg as better kajit is compared to dunmer and vise versa. Now we just need @Gilliamtherogue to tell us where these meet before and after cp is applied.

    That point is around 9.6k Effective Weapon/Spell dmg. This is my PvP build with 4k weapon damage and 35k stam
    Edited by nsmurfer on February 11, 2019 11:29PM
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
    ✭✭✭✭
    nsmurfer wrote: »
    Dr.NRG wrote: »
    CP5 wrote: »
    You realize the point of showing this is that the dunmer racial bonus for weapon damage results in more crit damage than a khajiit that has a crit damage racial, those differences are the point.

    Yes but thats logical. Thats only true to a certain extent though. Once you hit a certain amount of weapon dmg then adding on more weapon dmg will increase the dmg for less and less percentage wise. So at a certain point Crit dmg will become more effective than weapon dmg.

    If he had 2k weap dmg then picks a dunmer over a kajit he will crit way harder as he adds buffed about 20% weapon dmg to his bas weapon dmg and thus his hits before crit harder and so also after crit hit harder as everyone has a base multiplayer of 50% anyways.

    If he had 4k and picks a dunmer then that extra weap dmg he gets is comparative a much smaller percentage about 8% and thus he will crit harder if he picks kajit instead because he gets that flat 10%

    As higher he goes in weapon dmg as better kajit is compared to dunmer and vise versa. Now we just need @Gilliamtherogue to tell us where these meet before and after cp is applied.

    That point is around 9.6k Effective Weapon/Spell dmg.

    If thats true then yall are just screwed lol;)

    ByeBye Kajit
    Edited by Dr.NRG on February 11, 2019 11:29PM
    .
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Dr.NRG hmm
    the higher with crit we go then less efficient it will be as we have cap for crit chance and it is hard to reach very high modifier of crit damage soe mosty stam builds are going for average or minimum and then stack for weapon damage because for pure damage there is no cap and this would be more efficient to do nonstop tbh
    + buffs as major brutality is scaling % of your weapon damage so also as higher total wepaon damage you will have you will get better bonus from major brutality
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bloody hell. It actually makes me think that ZOS doesn't do any meaningful balancing. They're just tossing random numbers around.

    tbh like always, nothing new at all

    at start of this pts patch was really nice while in every next patch other worse races still was adjusting but then again they used random hit on board with "unexpected *** changes needed to noone"

    if something is going good with blanace changes at ZOS...it is to good, we should always be ready for unexpected *** change without any reason/aplaintation, just to bamboozle another group of players
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • zaria
    zaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Weren't you trolling Altmer players after they got nerfed? Maybe this is some karmic justice.
    Well we still have the issue that Altmer has 125 more magic than Dunmer.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • zaria
    zaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Edziu wrote: »
    Bloody hell. It actually makes me think that ZOS doesn't do any meaningful balancing. They're just tossing random numbers around.

    tbh like always, nothing new at all

    at start of this pts patch was really nice while in every next patch other worse races still was adjusting but then again they used random hit on board with "unexpected *** changes needed to noone"

    if something is going good with blanace changes at ZOS...it is to good, we should always be ready for unexpected *** change without any reason/aplaintation, just to bamboozle another group of players
    Well I give credit for Orc tanking :)
    Or more likely they was not washed out of Caglorn in the flashflood of Altmer tears.

    ESO balance team in action.
    B-29s-firebombs.jpg
    Read second line in my signature
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @zaria yep
    people started to cry over khajiits because theu started to be one of top 3 dps races for mag or stam and what we get? something about I was worry since 1st patch notes which I have seen...khajiit will be to op (even if not BiS race, just one of these top) and people will start cry for nerfs even if dps difference between races is now 200-1k depending which race to which other race we compare, not like now on live huge gap like I will guess good 3k if not more
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
    ✭✭✭✭
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    TBH I entirely expected a split between CHD and CHC, a full on 10% CHD is a bit of a surprise for me, but it's hardly unwarranted as we slowly walk our way back to the Critical Damage meta.

    0331
    0602
  • zaria
    zaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Edziu wrote: »
    @zaria yep
    people started to cry over khajiits because theu started to be one of top 3 dps races for mag or stam and what we get? something about I was worry since 1st patch notes which I have seen...khajiit will be to op (even if not BiS race, just one of these top) and people will start cry for nerfs even if dps difference between races is now 200-1k depending which race to which other race we compare, not like now on live huge gap like I will guess good 3k if not more
    Yes, and because Altmer tears flooded Craglorn, note that Orcs managed to tank trough even if serious OP as no campaign.
    Note that the Altmer campaign then went underground as they suddenly understood they had just set them self up for more nerfs, who could predict that ???
    Best solution is to spam forum with complains as its proven to work.
    Use lots of parses Khajiit is very dependent on crit chance and you can be unlucky :)
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
    ✭✭✭
    First of all, this is just my observation from this company so far.

    Well, here we go. All of these dramatic changes will only luring people ask for nerfs and that's exactly the reaction ZOS wants from players. Why? So they can claim "We did listen your feedback, dawg." and earn some good reputations back while nerf all of them and shifting responsibility to players.

    Just my 2 cents. Tbh, week 1 was just too good to be true. *Sigh*
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on February 12, 2019 1:15AM
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    sage2000 wrote: »
    LMAO a number of anti-Altmer advocates in this thread including the OP, but now that their kitty is doing a tiny bit less damage than a Dunmer we have this: ksq68erh1kvi.jpg

    yeah doing a tiny bit less damage instead of huge chunk sacrifacing last remains of build diversity in this game.
    as long khajiit had crit chance bonus we could use other than meta slave builds for crit and still be efficient...now? now without meta build with crit bonuses we wont have even significan use of this crit damage passive because of how low crit chance is in no meta builds
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Ehh could You atleast do the "testing" without shock dmg enchant which procs concussion thus makes tests rigged ? I wont even comment on the "testing" itself...

    Also what actually does that testing proves ? That races are kinda balanced and do similar dps overall ? Dont forget that khajit have more health and regen then dark elf which is also inportant factor in real fight scenario.
    Edited by Juhasow on February 12, 2019 2:12AM
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    By all means @ everyone on the dev team, I'm sure they pay attention to their mentions when everyone with a bad idea feels the need to ping them in their post.

    This is very informal data. Usecl cmx data not just single attack values on some combat log. You haven't talked about any of the builds you used, you haven't talked about buffs used, or checked for what buffs or procs where up. You'd have to be mad to believe any if this data even if it is true, because the quality is so poor.
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah it’s easy to get mislead by doing these parses because there are many factors that can be missed and it’s easy to accidentally include a biase. Unfortunately ZOS is sometimes guilty of that too and thus we keep finding unexpected overpowered or over performing items, classes build and so on after the patches get released. Remember how everyone said that desto ult was garbage and way to weak when it was first introduced? Zos ended up bugging it so much that it got way overpowered but month later it was nerfed below what it was to begin with and it’s still very strong
    .
  • Mygalomorpea
    Mygalomorpea
    ✭✭
    So... They have now succeeded in making that khajiit will require a different build than orcs and high elfs to extract the most from the race? Same as how redguard and orc will need different tweaks to make them work?

    This is kinda what I hoped would happen. No longer a flat build that will work on every race, but instead a baseline build with variations based on race. And think this might have been one of the factors when it came to the changes.

    Hope to see more versatile sets in the future which have good synergy with 1 race only to make this divide more prominent, perhaps get that "play the way you want" more feasible.
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
    ✭✭✭✭
    I'm personally not worried much about this change. It keeps the Khajiit identity intact. It makes my choice of taking Veiled Heritance over AY more beneficial now.
    And, as a sorcerer, my crit surge heal values will be better. I couldn't find time to test. But I think I have nearly nothing to tweak on my live build to adapt to this change. Overall, it seems very smart to me. It was powerful to bring crit chances on mag builds.
    PC - EU
    "Kiz Zennrili an Zennji siir furo jer wodro"
    May Jone and Jode's light reveal your path.
Sign In or Register to comment.