When is Vigor getting nerfed?

yodased

The problem with your argument is false equivilency.

Take your two groups:

Two 45k stam pool vigor users.
Two 45K mag pool templars.

While the individual aoe healing over a 5 second period may indeed be higher if you just sit there and heal, the magic group will also have purge synergy while standing in a heal over time, resource management from balls and shards and earthgore negating the other teams offensive ability every 30 seconds.

The situation you are describing is actually more effective in smaller groups as the stamina mobility, burst and line of sight used by these groups offer more in 4-5 man than magic.

Sure 5 stamina based high damage movement based characters working in tandem are going to be able to maximize vigor to heal while moving, but trying to compare dedicated heal characters to a dd with vigor is disingenious and not applicable for real battle situations.

Itzmichi

Yeah sure, vigor is used by our healers in raids all the time, just as the only heal, backbar equipped with a bow, works like a charm, definitely best heal in the game. Needs neeeeeeerf!

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Wow. AGAIN. Really? When will you Nerfers stop with this madness? Vigor has been nerfed in the past because of all the whining from PVPers. Enough of t his. Stop whining for nerfs all the time.

TrinityBreaker

LonePirate wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

That is exactly what needs to happen because there is no reason for Stamina to output the best damage and the best heals in PVP situations. Vigor is one of the main sources of the massive Stamina-Magicka imbalance in PVP and reducing its strength by bringing it in line with Healing Springs is long overdue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Yes, I did. Form two ball groups of 12 players each. Let one player in group A cast BoL once and compare the total healing to the first tick of Vigor cast by a player in group B. Now add a second player to group A who casts BoL. Add a second player to group B who casts Vigor. Guess which group of 12 will reach full health faster. Hint - it's not group A.

For the whiny Stamina PVP players who are crying because Vigor is their go to heal, you cannot have the best PVP damage and the best heal. How in the world is that anywhere close to a balanced game? Either give up some of your damage or give up some of the healing from Vigor. At the very least a 50% reduction in the non-self healing of Vigor is warranted, if not more.

Why are you comparing a heal that hits 2 targets to an heal that hits more than 2 people?

Drdeath20

I wish vigor was as strong as some believe.

IxSTALKERxI

Healing springs > Vigor

Ragnaroek93

I'd trade Vigor all day long for a stamina based shield which can compete with Hardened Ward, just saying. Vigor ticks for like 1.3k on my build, that's far away from being OP.

Zekka

Vigor is fine, healing done to other players is overtuned in general and needs a nerf through Battle Spirit.

MashmalloMan

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Hate people man. Ugh!

The worst, nerf people pls ZOS.

Finedaible

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

Roboplus

Hi. StamHealer Warden here.

Please stop.

Thank you.

montiferus

Bad players needing to see skills nerfed to compensate for badness.

News flash...you will always be bad.

Arkangeloski

LonePirate wrote: »

Anybody who has ventured into Cyrodiil or BGs has witnessed how ridiculously and unjustifiably overpowered this skill is, primarily due to the ease of stacking Stamina and the skill's broken scaling. I have lost track of the number of times I have seen two players spamming Vigor and taking an entire tightly packed ball group from low health to full health in two quick ticks. It is unquestionably the best AOE heal in the game.

Stamina players already have the best weapon and skill damage in PVP. They have the best mobility and best defensive skill in the game (Evasion) not to mention cheap as dirt blocking and roll dodging. There is no reason for Vigor to be a better skill than Breath of Life or any skill in the Restoration Staff skill line.

I'm sure the Stamina based players will start protesting and disagreeing because they don't want their crutch nerfed. Still, nerfing this skill will begin the journey of bringing some balance between Magicka skills and the exceptionally overpowered Stamina skills in PVP. Vigor should provide roughly the same amount of healing as Healing Springs, a comparable Magicka AOE heal.

Any thoughts on this @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Hahahaha

TrinityBreaker

With people terribad people like OP, this game will be nerfed.

LonePirate

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

Dracane

LonePirate wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

A reasonable step would be to not let vigor stack anymore. Because in that regard it is indeed overperforming, no matter what your stance might be.

Which as you said, makes 2 stamina players together infernal, without any need for offensive sacrifise. Not letting it stack anymore should fix the group issues without affecting single players.

EDIT: probably resolving vigor should just not have an aoe component at all, while the other morph does and is still stackable.

usmcjdking

LonePirate wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

The AOE component is WEAKER than Healing Springs, doesn't provide free mag return and cannot be stacked on itself.

I don't understand your complaint.

LonePirate

usmcjdking wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

The AOE component is WEAKER than Healing Springs, doesn't provide free mag return and cannot be stacked on itself.

I don't understand your complaint.

Go to Cyrodiil and observe some Stamina based tower farmers or any group of tightly bunched Stam players and you will see with your own eyes how OP Vigor is due to its AOE heal component.

radiostar

I don't think it needs nerfed in pve.

Sy1ph5

LonePirate wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

The AOE component is WEAKER than Healing Springs, doesn't provide free mag return and cannot be stacked on itself.

I don't understand your complaint.

Go to Cyrodiil and observe some Stamina based tower farmers or any group of tightly bunched Stam players and you will see with your own eyes how OP Vigor is due to its AOE heal component.

You clearly have no idea how stupid you look. Join one of those groups and run with them for a week or two then come back.

To address your inevitable stamboi accusation I main a magsorc.

usmcjdking

LonePirate wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Stamina heals are woefully terrible compared to magicka heals. Vigor is literally the only good stamina-based heal in the game for all possible stamina builds, and it takes a while to unlock for new characters too. If you were to nerf Vigor, then there's nothing left for stamina survivability, and then you can say farewell to any chance of your stamina build being recruited for a Trial.

I have no problems with the self-heal for Vigor. It is the massively OP group AOE heal component in PVP that needs to be nerfed or removed. Reading through this thread, it is obvious there are plenty of horrible Stamina PVP players who could not survive in PVP unless they have both the OP damage skills and heals which Stamina offers in Cyrodiil and BGs.Nerfing the group heal portion of Vigor is the first step to establishing Stamina and Magicka balance in PVP which has been stacked in Stamina's favor for far too long.

The AOE component is WEAKER than Healing Springs, doesn't provide free mag return and cannot be stacked on itself.

I don't understand your complaint.

Go to Cyrodiil and observe some Stamina based tower farmers or any group of tightly bunched Stam players and you will see with your own eyes how OP Vigor is due to its AOE heal component.

Did you just start PVPing last week or something?

elfantasmo

Vapirko wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

@LonePirate your words quoted.

LonePirate wrote: »

Something is very weird in ESO land. Hodor runs up an impressive score in Veteran Blackrose Prison yet the four streamers during last Friday’s Bethesda Twitchcon stream wiped numerous times during an hour or so on the second of five rounds on the arena before ultimately giving up.

This jog your memory?

Tumbleweed

iCaliban

No need to nerf vigor. It would be nice if magicka toons had access to a non class/weapon specific powerful HOT though. Possibly change one morph to magicka (dont give me, "but my stamina healer!" this isnt a thing, stop trying to make it one)

LonePirate

Vapirko wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

@LonePirate your words quoted.

LonePirate wrote: »

Something is very weird in ESO land. Hodor runs up an impressive score in Veteran Blackrose Prison yet the four streamers during last Friday’s Bethesda Twitchcon stream wiped numerous times during an hour or so on the second of five rounds on the arena before ultimately giving up.

This jog your memory?

Where in that statement do I accuse Hodor of cheating? Seems like you are a little sensitive here. Do you have something to hide perhaps? If anything that statement is a testament to one of two things, take your pick: 1. Those streamers absolutely sucked or had never played it or 2. Hodor is a league above those players, mostly because they spent hours on the PTS running the content whereas those streamers had not.

CatchMeTrolling

Your issue is actually a entirely different issue and you don’t realize it. The actual problem with vigor and healing is the fact the alliance skill line offers an extra 20 percent(?) extra healing. In my opinion that’s what should be removed or only available at towns or resources.

In general most people vigors don’t heal for that much. It’s the combination of vigor, rally, troll king, food, pots and mundus.

A combination of healing isn’t exclusive to stam though, I can do the same thing on a magic build but the difference is I can offer way more utility.

ZonasArch

LonePirate wrote: »

Anybody who has ventured into Cyrodiil or BGs has witnessed how ridiculously and unjustifiably overpowered this skill is, primarily due to the ease of stacking Stamina and the skill's broken scaling. I have lost track of the number of times I have seen two players spamming Vigor and taking an entire tightly packed ball group from low health to full health in two quick ticks. It is unquestionably the best AOE heal in the game.

Stamina players already have the best weapon and skill damage in PVP. They have the best mobility and best defensive skill in the game (Evasion) not to mention cheap as dirt blocking and roll dodging. There is no reason for Vigor to be a better skill than Breath of Life or any skill in the Restoration Staff skill line.

I'm sure the Stamina based players will start protesting and disagreeing because they don't want their crutch nerfed. Still, nerfing this skill will begin the journey of bringing some balance between Magicka skills and the exceptionally overpowered Stamina skills in PVP. Vigor should provide roughly the same amount of healing as Healing Springs, a comparable Magicka AOE heal.

Any thoughts on this @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

As a Magicka player that only recently, after 5k hours, got into stamina, I promise you... You're being stupid and over exaggerating. Vigor is not that good. Not bursty at all and if you have any two dots it'll kill any helping vigor can do. Breath of life is WAY better, and so is mutagen, with its burst if under 20%(iirc) health. Vigor only has the AoE effect going for it and the range isn't even that good.

Durham

LonePirate wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

That is exactly what needs to happen because there is no reason for Stamina to output the best damage and the best heals in PVP situations. Vigor is one of the main sources of the massive Stamina-Magicka imbalance in PVP and reducing its strength by bringing it in line with Healing Springs is long overdue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Yes, I did. Form two ball groups of 12 players each. Let one player in group A cast BoL once and compare the total healing to the first tick of Vigor cast by a player in group B. Now add a second player to group A who casts BoL. Add a second player to group B who casts Vigor. Guess which group of 12 will reach full health faster. Hint - it's not group A.

For the whiny Stamina PVP players who are crying because Vigor is their go to heal, you cannot have the best PVP damage and the best heal. How in the world is that anywhere close to a balanced game? Either give up some of your damage or give up some of the healing from Vigor. At the very least a 50% reduction in the non-self healing of Vigor is warranted, if not more.

your joking right ? You have no clue

allup8679

LonePirate wrote: »

Anybody who has ventured into Cyrodiil or BGs has witnessed how ridiculously and unjustifiably overpowered this skill is, primarily due to the ease of stacking Stamina and the skill's broken scaling. I have lost track of the number of times I have seen two players spamming Vigor and taking an entire tightly packed ball group from low health to full health in two quick ticks. It is unquestionably the best AOE heal in the game.

Stamina players already have the best weapon and skill damage in PVP. They have the best mobility and best defensive skill in the game (Evasion) not to mention cheap as dirt blocking and roll dodging. There is no reason for Vigor to be a better skill than Breath of Life or any skill in the Restoration Staff skill line.

I'm sure the Stamina based players will start protesting and disagreeing because they don't want their crutch nerfed. Still, nerfing this skill will begin the journey of bringing some balance between Magicka skills and the exceptionally overpowered Stamina skills in PVP. Vigor should provide roughly the same amount of healing as Healing Springs, a comparable Magicka AOE heal.

Any thoughts on this @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Holy hell this is a bad take.

LittlePinkDot

LonePirate wrote: »

Anybody who has ventured into Cyrodiil or BGs has witnessed how ridiculously and unjustifiably overpowered this skill is, primarily due to the ease of stacking Stamina and the skill's broken scaling. I have lost track of the number of times I have seen two players spamming Vigor and taking an entire tightly packed ball group from low health to full health in two quick ticks. It is unquestionably the best AOE heal in the game.

Stamina players already have the best weapon and skill damage in PVP. They have the best mobility and best defensive skill in the game (Evasion) not to mention cheap as dirt blocking and roll dodging. There is no reason for Vigor to be a better skill than Breath of Life or any skill in the Restoration Staff skill line.

I'm sure the Stamina based players will start protesting and disagreeing because they don't want their crutch nerfed. Still, nerfing this skill will begin the journey of bringing some balance between Magicka skills and the exceptionally overpowered Stamina skills in PVP. Vigor should provide roughly the same amount of healing as Healing Springs, a comparable Magicka AOE heal.

Any thoughts on this @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

I disagree. My argonian magplar healer is way better at healing a group to full health... And giving minor berserk... And increasing spell/weapon dmg with spellpower cure... And other such buffing goodies.

Vigor doesnt do much if the stamina characters is doing things solo, like dueling or solo pve.

Toc de Malsvi

Having tried to heal up pugs with Vigor I can attest that its really not that good. Please calm the insane rhetoric and spend a little more time in PVP.