When is Vigor getting nerfed?

LonePirate

Anybody who has ventured into Cyrodiil or BGs has witnessed how ridiculously and unjustifiably overpowered this skill is, primarily due to the ease of stacking Stamina and the skill's broken scaling. I have lost track of the number of times I have seen two players spamming Vigor and taking an entire tightly packed ball group from low health to full health in two quick ticks. It is unquestionably the best AOE heal in the game.

Stamina players already have the best weapon and skill damage in PVP. They have the best mobility and best defensive skill in the game (Evasion) not to mention cheap as dirt blocking and roll dodging. There is no reason for Vigor to be a better skill than Breath of Life or any skill in the Restoration Staff skill line.

I'm sure the Stamina based players will start protesting and disagreeing because they don't want their crutch nerfed. Still, nerfing this skill will begin the journey of bringing some balance between Magicka skills and the exceptionally overpowered Stamina skills in PVP. Vigor should provide roughly the same amount of healing as Healing Springs, a comparable Magicka AOE heal.

Any thoughts on this @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Idinuse

Well, well over due imo.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Mist form is potentially better than Evasion tbh.

Vigor is a odd ability to use (as someone that usually sticks to magica, specifically magica warden with my living trellis which I consider to be the best solo heal in the game) and stam builds outside of using s/b can have a hard time getting good survivability imo.

That said, a large part of the problem is the AOE nature of this ability. If stamina classes had a better heal on demand then it would remove the need for this to be as good as it is. It has a high healing amount in a very short amount of time and can easily be spammed because of that. Its one of the essential heals in a zerg rush.

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

Sy1ph5

Exaggerations get you nowhere. Honestly you just sound like a bad player. Vigor isn't op. Balling up and spamming any skill is gonna be OP get over it. Coordinated skill and set use will outperform anything else no matter what.

technohic

TBH I run Stamplar because I like the proactiveness of Vigor over BOL You cast vigor and can go about fighting while it heals you. BOL, you have to wait until your health is gone and you are on your heels. Add troll king and its almost has effective reactively as BOL/HTD

My issue with nerfing it is I like abilities that allow players to be a bit more independent. Vigor does that for stam. Magplar obviously has self healing, and so does mag DK, but I am not a fan of the sorc or magblade options and magicka in general could use something like a vigor as well as a non-vamp root/snare counter.

Dracane

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form is potentially better than Evasion tbh.

Vigor is a odd ability to use (as someone that usually sticks to magica, specifically magica warden with my living trellis which I consider to be the best solo heal in the game) and stam builds outside of using s/b can have a hard time getting good survivability imo.

That said, a large part of the problem is the AOE nature of this ability. If stamina classes had a better heal on demand then it would remove the need for this to be as good as it is. It has a high healing amount in a very short amount of time and can easily be spammed because of that. Its one of the essential heals in a zerg rush.

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

I doubt the OP is asking for Vigor to get removed. That would indeed be devastating.
It's just that Vigor is too good all around. It's a great self heal over time (isn't it actually the best with proper stats ?) and also a huge aoe heal. Stamina has an easier time stacking insane amounts of damage and getting huge heals from it.

There literally is no trade off. Magicka can't reach those numbers and ends up dealing less damage and also less healing.
I really don't know how to balance it other than a cheap nerf. From what I gather though, there are no intentions to adjust stamina survival, which is naturally far superior in pvp.

Vapirko

Holy *** dude shut the *** up. Jesus. @LonePirate please post your amazing gameplay vids of Stam. Can’t wait to see. Please play 5+ medium pieces.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form is potentially better than Evasion tbh.

Vigor is a odd ability to use (as someone that usually sticks to magica, specifically magica warden with my living trellis which I consider to be the best solo heal in the game) and stam builds outside of using s/b can have a hard time getting good survivability imo.

That said, a large part of the problem is the AOE nature of this ability. If stamina classes had a better heal on demand then it would remove the need for this to be as good as it is. It has a high healing amount in a very short amount of time and can easily be spammed because of that. Its one of the essential heals in a zerg rush.

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

You can’t spam vigor because there’s no burst heal portion. Spamming it does nothing. OP is nothing more than a salty player.

WillhelmBlack

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Vapirko

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

ak_pvp

Its err, not. Nor should it be. I'd be fine if the ally heal was nerfed to weaken ball group circlejerks but its average 1.5k/s for 5s at a fairly high cost. Not OP in the slightest.

Now, troll king, yeah that can be nerfed. Basically 3/4 of vigor and for all group at same strength (bar vamps) and long range, and basically free.

WillhelmBlack

ak_pvp wrote: »

Its err, not. Nor should it be. I'd be fine if the ally heal was nerfed to weaken ball group circlejerks but its average 1.5k/s for 5s at a fairly high cost. Not OP in the slightest.

Now, troll king, yeah that can be nerfed. Basically 3/4 of vigor and for all group at same strength (bar vamps) and long range, and basically free.

Troll King is crappy next patch. No more extra 20% health regen on any of the races.

LonePirate

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

That is exactly what needs to happen because there is no reason for Stamina to output the best damage and the best heals in PVP situations. Vigor is one of the main sources of the massive Stamina-Magicka imbalance in PVP and reducing its strength by bringing it in line with Healing Springs is long overdue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Yes, I did. Form two ball groups of 12 players each. Let one player in group A cast BoL once and compare the total healing to the first tick of Vigor cast by a player in group B. Now add a second player to group A who casts BoL. Add a second player to group B who casts Vigor. Guess which group of 12 will reach full health faster. Hint - it's not group A.

For the whiny Stamina PVP players who are crying because Vigor is their go to heal, you cannot have the best PVP damage and the best heal. How in the world is that anywhere close to a balanced game? Either give up some of your damage or give up some of the healing from Vigor. At the very least a 50% reduction in the non-self healing of Vigor is warranted, if not more.

LiquidPony

Do you mean when is Vigor getting nerfed again?

Sy1ph5

LonePirate wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

That is exactly what needs to happen because there is no reason for Stamina to output the best damage and the best heals in PVP situations. Vigor is one of the main sources of the massive Stamina-Magicka imbalance in PVP and reducing its strength by bringing it in line with Healing Springs is long overdue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Yes, I did. Form two ball groups of 12 players each. Let one player in group A cast BoL once and compare the total healing to the first tick of Vigor cast by a player in group B. Now add a second player to group A who casts BoL. Add a second player to group B who casts Vigor. Guess which group of 12 will reach full health faster. Hint - it's not group A.

For the whiny Stamina PVP players who are crying because Vigor is their go to heal, you cannot have the best PVP damage and the best heal. How in the world is that anywhere close to a balanced game? Either give up some of your damage or give up some of the healing from Vigor. At the very least a 50% reduction in the non-self healing of Vigor is warranted, if not more.

Wow honestly your lack of insight is astounding. Please play every class and spec and come back to this post with some actual experience. You'll be embarrassed.

Morgul667

I have to hope, this is a troll

Morgul667

Playing stam and mag versions of different class could really help you here

idk

Vigor is not even a solid heal. It is a hot that only benefits from being used one every 5 seconds. If you cannot out dps the hot then I suggest looking at ones build and how one uses it.

WillhelmBlack

LonePirate wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

That is exactly what needs to happen because there is no reason for Stamina to output the best damage and the best heals in PVP situations. Vigor is one of the main sources of the massive Stamina-Magicka imbalance in PVP and reducing its strength by bringing it in line with Healing Springs is long overdue.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Yes, I did. Form two ball groups of 12 players each. Let one player in group A cast BoL once and compare the total healing to the first tick of Vigor cast by a player in group B. Now add a second player to group A who casts BoL. Add a second player to group B who casts Vigor. Guess which group of 12 will reach full health faster. Hint - it's not group A.

For the whiny Stamina PVP players who are crying because Vigor is their go to heal, you cannot have the best PVP damage and the best heal. How in the world is that anywhere close to a balanced game? Either give up some of your damage or give up some of the healing from Vigor. At the very least a 50% reduction in the non-self healing of Vigor is warranted, if not more.

Who's whining?

LonePirate

Awesome! More whiny Stamina (PVE?) players who cannot read! I fully stand by the my statement that the group heal from its AOE effect - especially when more than one player is using it - is ridiculously OP. Would you feel better if the skill was converted to a self-heal only or do you need your allies to save you because you cannot survive using only your own heals? Vigor needs a nerf, plain and simple.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Vapirko wrote: »

Holy *** dude shut the *** up. Jesus. @LonePirate please post your amazing gameplay vids of Stam. Can’t wait to see. Please play 5+ medium pieces.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form is potentially better than Evasion tbh.

Vigor is a odd ability to use (as someone that usually sticks to magica, specifically magica warden with my living trellis which I consider to be the best solo heal in the game) and stam builds outside of using s/b can have a hard time getting good survivability imo.

That said, a large part of the problem is the AOE nature of this ability. If stamina classes had a better heal on demand then it would remove the need for this to be as good as it is. It has a high healing amount in a very short amount of time and can easily be spammed because of that. Its one of the essential heals in a zerg rush.

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

You can’t spam vigor because there’s no burst heal portion. Spamming it does nothing. OP is nothing more than a salty player.

To clarify, when I said spam I mean use it off cool down, but this is near enough spamming it as its timer is so low for so much healing.

LonePirate

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Morgul667

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Honestly you original post, sounds like salts because you got killed by stam toons

Asking to nerf others is not the solution

Vapirko

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Holy *** dude shut the *** up. Jesus. @LonePirate please post your amazing gameplay vids of Stam. Can’t wait to see. Please play 5+ medium pieces.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Mist form is potentially better than Evasion tbh.

Vigor is a odd ability to use (as someone that usually sticks to magica, specifically magica warden with my living trellis which I consider to be the best solo heal in the game) and stam builds outside of using s/b can have a hard time getting good survivability imo.

That said, a large part of the problem is the AOE nature of this ability. If stamina classes had a better heal on demand then it would remove the need for this to be as good as it is. It has a high healing amount in a very short amount of time and can easily be spammed because of that. Its one of the essential heals in a zerg rush.

But if you just removed it, for example, I think you would see a lot of stamina builds immediately suffer, many exclusively rely on this as a self heal even if it is a HOT with AOE.

You can’t spam vigor because there’s no burst heal portion. Spamming it does nothing. OP is nothing more than a salty player.

To clarify, when I said spam I mean use it off cool down, but this is near enough spamming it as its timer is so low for so much healing.

Every four seconds isn’t really spamming.

LonePirate

Morgul667 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Honestly you original post, sounds like salts because you got killed by stam toons

Asking to nerf others is not the solution

Here's some friendly advice. Play some PVP and observe for yourself how unbalanced and overpowered the skill is in group situations. Then ask yourself why you feel balance is not important to you or the game.

Vapirko

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

@LonePirate your words quoted.

LonePirate wrote: »

Something is very weird in ESO land. Hodor runs up an impressive score in Veteran Blackrose Prison yet the four streamers during last Friday’s Bethesda Twitchcon stream wiped numerous times during an hour or so on the second of five rounds on the arena before ultimately giving up.

This jog your memory?

Morgul667

LonePirate wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Honestly you original post, sounds like salts because you got killed by stam toons

Asking to nerf others is not the solution

Here's some friendly advice. Play some PVP and observe for yourself how unbalanced and overpowered the skill is in group situations. Then ask yourself why you feel balance is not important to you or the game.

I once got killed by a guy wearing sithis set, can we nerf it ? I would friendly highlight this is not balancing.

Wuuffyy

Hate people man. Ugh!

Dracane

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Omg this statement. I will use this quote very often from now on.

CatchMeTrolling

So by the looks of it , you only play magic? If so, there’s nothing to see here.

Vapirko

Dracane wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Omg this statement. I will use this quote very often from now on.

Although I’m not aware that tears fume? Overly salty water also does not produce fumes, so it doesn’t make much sense. This insult is about as weak as the OPs post and their memory.

Dracane

Vapirko wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Wait. Did you just say Vigor is better than BoL?

Just another scrub. He was also implying that Hodor (top tier pve guild) was cheating on Balckrose prison a few months back lmao. Some people jsut cant live with the fact that others are better than them. This thread also does not belong in the PTS section. Vigor is not a part of the patch notes, nor is healing a general discussion in the patch notes. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you please move this to PvP combat and skills where it belongs. OP is clearly using the PTS section to draw attention to a subjective opinion.

You should retract that statement. I never said anything like that about Hodor and Blackrose Prison. The fumes from your salty tears have clouded your memory.

Omg this statement. I will use this quote very often from now on.

Although I’m not aware that tears fume? Overly salty water also does not produce fumes, so it doesn’t make much sense. This insult is about as weak as the OPs post and their memory.

Indeed. It makes no sense, which is why it amuses me so much.
It's exactly the kind of exaggerated overdrama that I love and live. I try to remain serious on the forums. But in reality, being a dramaqueen is my life.