Xynode Builds

mikemacon

Mrslizardface wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Mrslizardface wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

“For what they’re designed for.”

Yep.

What they’re designed for is the entirety of the game.

I personally have run vet trials with Xynode’s builds with no problem.

Nice try, though…

You could say that about anything, but in reality the group could be carrying you and you could be barely contributing, so saying you've done vet trials with xynode builds means nothing...

Nah. That’s the beauty of Combat Metrics. I can see what my actual real-world damage is while engaging mechanics, as well as my incoming and outgoing buffs and debuts.

Again, nice try...

Could you share? Since none of xynode builds show actual dps

Sure.

Once you post a Xynode build that doesn’t show actual DPS.

Since if you watched the videos you’d see the DPS test right there near the end.

kylewwefan

mocap wrote: »

saw his easy sorc build... You need:
Undaunted Infiltrator lightning staff
Undaunted Infiltrator 3 jewerly
you need 150 transmute crystals, cuz set is medium, so jewerly (or any other body armor parts) is robust (stamina)
you need vma lightning staff

easy sorc...

Lol, I started working on this last night. Got the jewelry, but this lightning staff is about as legendary as BSW inferno! Thinking about going 2 light Grothdar and throwing in 2 medium underpants to try it out.

Qbiken

mikemacon wrote: »

Mrslizardface wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

“For what they’re designed for.”

Yep.

What they’re designed for is the entirety of the game.

I personally have run vet trials with Xynode’s builds with no problem.

Nice try, though…

You could say that about anything, but in reality the group could be carrying you and you could be barely contributing, so saying you've done vet trials with xynode builds means nothing...

Nah. That’s the beauty of Combat Metrics. I can see what my actual real-world damage is while engaging mechanics, as well as my incoming and outgoing buffs and debuts.

Again, nice try...

Here´s the thing, it all comes down to what you want to accomplish. If your goal is to clear the content then you can lowkey use whatever you want, but many players have goals that goes beyond that. And even if you manage to complete content with "off-meta options" with good damage, buff/debuff uptimes or whatever, the question "Could you´ve done it better with proper gear" will most likely be asked. And if you and the people you play with doesn´t care, then it´s no big deal. What bothers me about this whole "Meta vs Off-meta" debate is that the off-meta crowd expects the "meta" crowd to accept their off-meta options.

At the end of the day, you can use whatever you want, but you can´t expect other players to accept your choices.

T3hasiangod

mikemacon wrote: »

Also I run with the Ninja Cakes guild on PC. We run almost all Xynode builds in all content.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But hey - meta orthodoxy says that’s impossible, so eh.

Please show a video of your guild clearing vAS + 2, vMaw HM, vHoF HM, or vCR + 3 with all Xynode builds. I'll wait.

Now granted, Hodor can easily do that. They did finish vMaw HM with 300 CP, but thats because they have that experience. If you compare how quickly and easily they do it though, Xynode's will likely be significantly slower and less efficient.

Clearing a vet trial means almost nothing about the build itself, depending on the trial you're clearing. You can clear most of the vet Craglorn with an average of 20k DPS, with a tank that's only about beefiness and a healer that's just about pumping out HPS. Does that mean that group's set-up is meta or better than the meta? No, because the vet Craglorns are rediculously easy now due to power creep. In fact, many veteran raiders would consider vet Craglorns to be an introduction into end-game, not end-game proper.

kylewwefan

T3hasiangod wrote: »

[snip]

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with his builds. For what they are built for, they're pretty decent. What I have issue with is the fact that many people who use these builds consider them as good as the meta builds, which is complete hogwash. Like please show me the parses that are getting within 1 percent of the meta builds. Meta is meta for a reason. Just because something can do DLC dungeons half-decently does not make it as good as the meta.

These same people are the ones who try to bring these builds into vet trials, not realizing the builds aren't good enough. Then we have to essentially reteach the meta to these same people, assuming they're receptive enough for feedback. Because a lot of them aren't and just complain on the forums about the elitism in end-game raiding, not realizing that they wouldn't be pulling their fair share.

So tl;dr Xynode builds are ok for what they were designed for, but his followers are the ones who elevate him and his builds to unrealistic expectations. [snip]

Off-meta is off-meta for a reason. If you have no intention on doing vet trials, then you do you. But don't you say that off-meta is within 1 percent of the meta and expect us to believe that without solid hard parses as evidence.

One my favorite setup to use on StamBlade is Briarhearts, VO, Veli. I hit 38k with that. Someone good would probably be better. With Rele, Ay, Veli Meta setup, I hit 52k. So uh yeah. %1 better.

starkerealm

therift wrote: »

Some people are frightened by the notion that there isn't a single 'best in slot' build in ESO as there are in other games. Suggesting that other builds provide within 1% of the performance of the build they believe is best is a direct threat to the time they invested in collecting the items they believe to be best.

Not helped by the fact that we have a few content creators who do push a BiS narrative to shore up their sub-par builds, because, "they've done the math."

Hell, I once had someone on these boards arguing that Siroria was BiS, even though they could only maintain five stacks once they got off a dummy parse and into a vet trial. For reference, that's +150 weapon damage, or, you know, half the effectiveness of just running Julianos. Of course, the same individual made a thread arguing about how Weapon Damage, Weapon Crit, Major Slayer, and Medium Armor are all indicative of a set designed for tanking, so... you know.

Mrslizardface

T3hasiangod wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Also I run with the Ninja Cakes guild on PC. We run almost all Xynode builds in all content.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But hey - meta orthodoxy says that’s impossible, so eh.

Please show a video of your guild clearing vAS + 2, vMaw HM, vHoF HM, or vCR + 3 with all Xynode builds. I'll wait.

Now granted, Hodor can easily do that. They did finish vMaw HM with 300 CP, but thats because they have that experience. If you compare how quickly and easily they do it though, Xynode's will likely be significantly slower and less efficient.

Clearing a vet trial means almost nothing about the build itself, depending on the trial you're clearing. You can clear most of the vet Craglorn with an average of 20k DPS, with a tank that's only about beefiness and a healer that's just about pumping out HPS. Does that mean that group's set-up is meta or better than the meta? No, because the vet Craglorns are rediculously easy now due to power creep. In fact, many veteran raiders would consider vet Craglorns to be an introduction into end-game, not end-game proper.

I would like to see this too

kathandira

mocap wrote: »

saw his easy sorc build... You need:
Undaunted Infiltrator lightning staff
Undaunted Infiltrator 3 jewerly
you need 150 transmute crystals, cuz set is medium, so jewerly (or any other body armor parts) is robust (stamina)
you need vma lightning staff

easy sorc...

lol, yeah. The gear isn't easy in that it takes quite a bit of farming. But the rotation is quite easy.

starkerealm

T3hasiangod wrote: »

Please show a video of your guild clearing vAS + 2, vMaw HM, vHoF HM, or vCR + 3 with all Xynode builds. I'll wait.

You're thinking about Xy's PS4EU guild for that. They're the ones with an established trials team. PCNA's still getting theirs geared up after some members of the community migrated over to PC from the consoles.

I'd suggest you check out Xy's youtube backlog, but you can't, so that's not an option.

kathandira

lassitershawn wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@ArchangelIsraphel xynode does tend to focus on class skills that provide identity to his builds, rather than weapon skills - - one of the things you'll hear him say or read in his notes quite often is that he chooses skills that give reason to play a specific class, or, indeed, play vampire for example. He picks sets that compliment that philosophy to achieve the best results. In many ways that is the very essence of what makes a xynode build, and how they can work within 1 or 2 % of the meta.

Agree or disagree, but in my experience console and pc play differently (player experience, responsiveness, qol). Certain classes (sorc, dk) I will pick a xynode build over an alcast build for that reason on xbox.

That's what I'm liking about everything I'm seeing. The classes actually feel unique. I'm thinking of respeccing my NB completely after seeing this because I'm just not having fun with his alcast build, and I feel like I could enjoy him more trying out Xynode's builds.

I've never played on Xbox, only on PC, but I think I'll enjoy it on PC just as much

Side note to fans of alcast builds that I'm not trying to insult alcast or anything- those guides have been useful to me as well. I just don't enjoy the style of gameplay I'm getting out of them at all and my mele characters feel really stagnant in terms of skills and animations. These look so much more dynamic. I might even pick up the DK I abandoned ages ago again.

Alcasts build seem to be built with the intention that the entire Trial group is creating their builds with complete synergy. They work best when everyone has the other team mates in mind when coordinating their builds. It is the Pro technique.

If I were in a scoreboard chasing guild, I would absolutely be using builds like his. But since my guild doesn't coordinate like that, I make builds with the assumption that I may not get all the buffs that I need to perform to my best ability. So in his build where he doesn't slot a certain buff, I do so I can at least be 100% sure I will be getting it.

To me, it seems that is the difference between the two build creators. They are built for different audiences.

Very good point. Xynode tends to build on self sufficiency, Alcast and others (Dottz, etc) on group synergy and coordination. There is a place for both philisophies, and neither outweighs the other except for niche requirement.

Part of enjoying this game is exploring that, and the more voices the better.

100% Agreed.

Reading this has made me consider creating videos for fun builds for the bottom half of the player base. The Non-Vet Trials players. Fun stuff that is actually effective. Sort of a Deltia Revival. There are so many fun ways to build characters that can capitalize on their identity that i'd like to see more of it.

Should try making an ice build with winterborn, I've always wanted to see how fast you could get it to proc xD Warden with 2x ice dots, frost reach dot, asylum staff for the frost part of FP, frost glyph, ice blockade, ice light attacks, ice destro, iceheart, absolute crazy amount of chilled procs. I feel like you could probably get it to proc like once a second and maybe get 5k+ out of it, you'd sacrifice a lot of DPS elsewhere but it might be fun.

That's a fun idea = D

And it is exactly the sort of thing I want to play with just for fun, and effective Normal Content builds.

If it can do 20k on the 3m, then I think that is plenty enough to feel good in Normal Content, and maybe even Non-DLC Vet Dungeons.

mikemacon

Ah, the Far Eastern Deity. It was only a matter of time before you were summoned.

Would an entire guild team (Ninja Cakes, PS4-EU) with the vHOF skin suffice? The entire team made up of Xynode’s guildies? No? Probably not. They probably just carried each other.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

kathandira

kylewwefan wrote: »

With Rele, Ay, Veli Meta setup, I hit 52k. So uh yeah. %1 better.

Maelstrom Bow?

starkerealm

mikemacon wrote: »

Ah, the Far Eastern Deity. It was only a matter of time before you were summoned.

Would an entire guild team (Ninja Cakes, PS4-EU) with the vHOF skin suffice? The entire team made up of Xynode’s guildies? No? Probably not. They probably just carried each other.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No, clearly they all bought their skin from each other. :P

Though, I suspect @krystinathealien has the gory details.

Mrslizardface

mikemacon wrote: »

Ah, the Far Eastern Deity. It was only a matter of time before you were summoned.

Would an entire guild team (Ninja Cakes, PS4-EU) with the vHOF skin suffice? The entire team made up of Xynode’s guildies? No? Probably not. They probably just carried each other.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would really love to see a video or something, since I've only ever seen xynode in random groups

Agenericname

kylewwefan wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

saw his easy sorc build... You need:
Undaunted Infiltrator lightning staff
Undaunted Infiltrator 3 jewerly
you need 150 transmute crystals, cuz set is medium, so jewerly (or any other body armor parts) is robust (stamina)
you need vma lightning staff

easy sorc...

Lol, I started working on this last night. Got the jewelry, but this lightning staff is about as legendary as BSW inferno! Thinking about going 2 light Grothdar and throwing in 2 medium underpants to try it out.

I subbed elegance for undaunted infiltrator. Much easier to get and works pretty well.

MooseKnuckles88

I highly doubt Xynode wants to be associated with any kind of toxicity about his builds, he seems like a pretty humble guy who enjoys the game like the rest of us and goes out his way to try to help others get a start with how to build a character in addition to having some really awesome DLC walkthroughs. No, his builds aren't supreme, legendary, or meta breaking and he already knows that. I appreciate his builds because they're a little different from most other peoples and puts some diversity back into the game (which is extremely lacking these days). If you're getting through vDLCs on HM and able to clear vet trials then likely your build is good enough. There's nothing wrong with not running meta builds, and to be honest if you're not trying for vet trial score runs then I don't see what the problem is.

Xynode has a big fan base likely because of his persona when explains his builds and actually puts the time into the 'why' not just the usual 'because I say so'. Not all, but a lot of youtubers just regurgitate builds because it's easier and will yield more views even though they're not actually telling people anything new.

starkerealm

Agenericname wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

saw his easy sorc build... You need:
Undaunted Infiltrator lightning staff
Undaunted Infiltrator 3 jewerly
you need 150 transmute crystals, cuz set is medium, so jewerly (or any other body armor parts) is robust (stamina)
you need vma lightning staff

easy sorc...

Lol, I started working on this last night. Got the jewelry, but this lightning staff is about as legendary as BSW inferno! Thinking about going 2 light Grothdar and throwing in 2 medium underpants to try it out.

I subbed elegance for undaunted infiltrator. Much easier to get and works pretty well.

For what it's worth, the pre-Summerset version was, I believe, Spider Cultist and Netch's Touch. Getting Spider Cultist Staves is a lot easier because there are a few unique lightning drops, including one in Sharpened. While I'm going from memory, I think subbing Spider for Elegant will get higher performance, but I'm not 100% sure.

starkerealm

@MooseKnuckles88, from interacting with Xy on many occasions, including getting him on the podcast three separate times, can confirm; he's good people with a real love for teaching people about the game and how they can improve.

sudaki_eso

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with not running meta builds, and to be honest if you're not trying for vet trial score runs then I don't see what the problem is.

^This
Like i said before i use meta builds and xynode builds, and yes, your dps are not as high as with a bis setup but that doesnt mean that you cant have fun or do vet trials. I am a stamina guy and tried the easySorc cause the rotation is pretty close to the one i do on my main. And guess what, there wasnt any problem clearing those carglorn hardmodes, vmol or vas. We dont do score runs or trying some "worlds first" nonsense, we just want to have fun - and thats what xynode builds are for - fun. You want to get the max out of your char, run vcr+3 score runs? I agree, other builds might be better. It all depends on what you do and what you want to archieve.

I like em both (alcast and xynode) and i am happy that there are ppl like xynode out there who are going a different way, otherwise all my 5 stam chars would have the same gear since bis is the same for all of them.

ZOS_RogerJ

Remember, per the community rules, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.

Jamdarius

his stamden bow/bow build is great

Kel

T3hasiangod wrote: »

[snip]

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with his builds. For what they are built for, they're pretty decent. What I have issue with is the fact that many people who use these builds consider them as good as the meta builds, which is complete hogwash. Like please show me the parses that are getting within 1 percent of the meta builds. Meta is meta for a reason. Just because something can do DLC dungeons half-decently does not make it as good as the meta.

These same people are the ones who try to bring these builds into vet trials, not realizing the builds aren't good enough. Then we have to essentially reteach the meta to these same people, assuming they're receptive enough for feedback. Because a lot of them aren't and just complain on the forums about the elitism in end-game raiding, not realizing that they wouldn't be pulling their fair share.

So tl;dr Xynode builds are ok for what they were designed for, but his followers are the ones who elevate him and his builds to unrealistic expectations. [snip]

Off-meta is off-meta for a reason. If you have no intention on doing vet trials, then you do you. But don't you say that off-meta is within 1 percent of the meta and expect us to believe that without solid hard parses as evidence.

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comments]

Xynode: 31k subscribers

You: 8k subscribers


[snip]

I mean, his new DK hits 52k dps. How is that not good enough for vet trials, exactly?

[snip]

[edited for baiting commentary]

FluffyKitten

Easy sorc, best build i've tried, really fun and really effective.
Thank you Xy

pod88kk

I ran the easy mode sorc through vma around 3/4 times & it worked well. Then I got into end game trialing and pushing for scores and unfortunately that where it's usefulness ended. Now I ride the Meta train......CHOO CHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Why? because meta is better!!

Heelie

Kel wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

[snip]

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with his builds. For what they are built for, they're pretty decent. What I have issue with is the fact that many people who use these builds consider them as good as the meta builds, which is complete hogwash. Like please show me the parses that are getting within 1 percent of the meta builds. Meta is meta for a reason. Just because something can do DLC dungeons half-decently does not make it as good as the meta.

These same people are the ones who try to bring these builds into vet trials, not realizing the builds aren't good enough. Then we have to essentially reteach the meta to these same people, assuming they're receptive enough for feedback. Because a lot of them aren't and just complain on the forums about the elitism in end-game raiding, not realizing that they wouldn't be pulling their fair share.

So tl;dr Xynode builds are ok for what they were designed for, but his followers are the ones who elevate him and his builds to unrealistic expectations. [snip]

Off-meta is off-meta for a reason. If you have no intention on doing vet trials, then you do you. But don't you say that off-meta is within 1 percent of the meta and expect us to believe that without solid hard parses as evidence.

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comments]

Xynode: 31k subscribers

You: 8k subscribers


[snip].

I mean, his new DK hits 52k dps. How is that not good enough for vet trials, exactly?

[snip]

This is probably the least contructive comment in this entire thread, I don't see the points honestly, the two creators have entirely different audiences.

Kel

Heelie wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

T3hasiangod wrote: »

[snip]

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with his builds. For what they are built for, they're pretty decent. What I have issue with is the fact that many people who use these builds consider them as good as the meta builds, which is complete hogwash. Like please show me the parses that are getting within 1 percent of the meta builds. Meta is meta for a reason. Just because something can do DLC dungeons half-decently does not make it as good as the meta.

These same people are the ones who try to bring these builds into vet trials, not realizing the builds aren't good enough. Then we have to essentially reteach the meta to these same people, assuming they're receptive enough for feedback. Because a lot of them aren't and just complain on the forums about the elitism in end-game raiding, not realizing that they wouldn't be pulling their fair share.

So tl;dr Xynode builds are ok for what they were designed for, but his followers are the ones who elevate him and his builds to unrealistic expectations. [snip]

Off-meta is off-meta for a reason. If you have no intention on doing vet trials, then you do you. But don't you say that off-meta is within 1 percent of the meta and expect us to believe that without solid hard parses as evidence.

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comments]

Xynode: 31k subscribers

You: 8k subscribers


Now I get why you're so salty.

I mean, his new DK hits 52k dps. How is that not good enough for vet trials, exactly?

Pretty sad of you to feel like you have to come throw some shade on a appreciation post.

This is probably the least contructive comment in this entire thread, I don't see the points honestly, the two creators have entirely different audiences.

You dont see the point of someone coming into a thread that's supposedly to show appreciation just to throw shade?

Audience has nothing to do with it.
It's a lack of class and respect.

End game players aren't toxic though, right?

Disappointing that has to be spelled out...

pod88kk

T3hasiangod wrote: »

[snip]

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with his builds. For what they are built for, they're pretty decent. What I have issue with is the fact that many people who use these builds consider them as good as the meta builds, which is complete hogwash. Like please show me the parses that are getting within 1 percent of the meta builds. Meta is meta for a reason. Just because something can do DLC dungeons half-decently does not make it as good as the meta.

These same people are the ones who try to bring these builds into vet trials, not realizing the builds aren't good enough. Then we have to essentially reteach the meta to these same people, assuming they're receptive enough for feedback. Because a lot of them aren't and just complain on the forums about the elitism in end-game raiding, not realizing that they wouldn't be pulling their fair share.

So tl;dr Xynode builds are ok for what they were designed for, but his followers are the ones who elevate him and his builds to unrealistic expectations. [snip]

Off-meta is off-meta for a reason. If you have no intention on doing vet trials, then you do you. But don't you say that off-meta is within 1 percent of the meta and expect us to believe that without solid hard parses as evidence.

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comments]

If I could give you more 'AGREES' I would.

Your content is far more relevant/useful for end game players. I feel that Xynode builds are more for the 'I'll play the way I want to play' players....the 'Woohoo we finished vet hel ra in just under 3 hours, GG everyone' kinda players.

therift

It's sad to see a thread established to appreciate a content creator devolve into an argument over meta. It has become another example of the notorious elitism of a few vet trials players. Quite sad.

Judas Helviaryn

therift wrote: »

It's sad to see a thread established to appreciate a content creator devolve into an argument over meta. It has become another example of the notorious elitism of a few vet trials players. Quite sad.

People have no pride in their lives, they have to derive it from a video game at the expense of others. It's petty.

starkerealm

lassitershawn wrote: »

Pretty much this post. When I was a new player myself I took some builds off the internet that were essentially advertised as BiS and were anything but. Being new to MMOs I just kind of naively assumed the content was accurate and later learned the hard way that it was not. Ofc I was willing to accept that another build was better and was willing to learn from actual endgame players, some people are not and just stupidly insist things like "IA on DPS" are BiS with no evidence to back it up (note that opinion and theorycrafting are in general not evidence). Same goes for a lot of players taking builds from popular websites.

On a side note, how does copying a build from a "meta-killer" (lol) website make you any more innovative or special than someone who copies their build from someone who is actually using a meta build. Like... lol? Can someone who fancies themselves anti-meta for any reason other than cool RP builds (full respect to those and those who advertise them as what they are) answer this for me?

@lassitershawn, then you haven't actually looked at Xy's content. He's usually pretty clear that BiS simply isn't a thing in ESO. He's also very good about explaining why he does what he does, and actually runs endgame content... you know, unlike the guy you quoted and agreed with, who frequently advocates for BiS (with dubious choices) and says, "I did the math," as the only justifications for his opinions. (Frequently, with fundamental errors in methodology.)