Maintenance for the week of May 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
So I guess lore is completely being tossed now.
-
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dragons need some explanation, I'll agree, but how does a necromancer class break lore? They even said that there will be negative justice system reactions to it which aids immersion.33 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »Dragons in the late 2nd era?
A necromancer class?
WTH.adriant1978 wrote: »Dragons need some explanation, I'll agree, but how does a necromancer class break lore? They even said that there will be negative justice system reactions to it which aids immersion.
Uh well according to Bethesda, Dragons are not lore breaking.25 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tiber septim had a squad of dragons in his army in the late 2nd era. Third era didn't start until after he founded his empire."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard29 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not really, the lore is being expanded and enriched as all good stories do. If you want to regurgitate the misgivings of ill informed stagnant mouthbreathers be my guest.37 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, FFS.
We literally accidentally release dragons that were caged. They're not just roaming around like its normal.
This is not lore breaking, period. There were dragons in this era. They were just in hiding or locked up.44 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Both have already been explained several times by the people who created the Elder Scrolls series.
As in the creators.....you know the dudes that created the lore...as in Tamriel is not a real place.
If Bethesda (who Zenimax Online gets the green light from) says that there are Purple Pig men that live on the twin moons it's cannon.
The fans don't have a say in what is what...the creators do.
Just consider me the cold pimp slap of reality.
Edited by Rain_Greyraven on January 16, 2019 6:02PM"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.65 -
There were very few dragons in the 2nd era alive. Hidden. I'm sure Zenimax will explain and tell a story revolving around their appearance.
Necromancy? It was officially outlawed by the Third Era, but during this time it is illegal in a way and frowned upon. I don't see how it is lore breaking since you can be charged by guards for crime if using necromancy in cities and towns.8 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »Dragons in the late 2nd era?
A necromancer class?
WTH.
Where in the lore say that in the 2nd Era that they are completely gone?
And as for necromancers, I guess it has been ok for them as enemies and npc's all these years, but not at a player class now?
How is any of this lore breaking?PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc7 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Uh well according to Bethesda, Dragons are not lore breaking.
Hence why I said it needs explanation. Bethesda can certainly exercise Word of God on the matter but that's not the same as an in-universe explanation. Skyrim gives the impression that they've been gone for a lot longer than since the Second Era.1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Lore is whatever ZOS wants it to be since they're the ones making it up in the first place.GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »So I guess lore is completely being tossed now.
11 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭They can literally put anything at any era and say it's not lore breaking, because they create the lore the way they see fit.
Like with the atronach mounts and other so called not-lore-breaking-animated-weird-stuff they already created.
I don't need dragons in ESO, they are specific for Skyrim game and should stay there.
All I need is spears, the only thing not given for years for no particular reason.Edited by Gargath on January 16, 2019 6:09PMPC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."5 -
Claudman✭✭✭✭✭Do I have to link Atlas of Dragons again?
It's not lore-breaking, it's been stated many times that the Dragons aren't all dead, they went into hiding and in TES: Redguard (A game which came out before most of the entire series and takes place in the late Second Era) Tiber had a lieutenant who was a Dragon.
Just because an NPC who is a villager or a book tells you that the dragons are all dead, doesn't mean that they are given Paarthunax for example has been alive since before the Dragon War. Also dragons can be killed by anyone, the thing is, the Dovahkiin can kill them permanently so that they can't be resurrected (by consuming their soul).
They also literally said Necromancer class will cause the Justice system to activate so Guards will indeed attack you for using the skills.Edited by Claudman on January 16, 2019 6:12PMWelcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.
I play healers or DPS often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP810+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
I primarily play Damage-Based stuff in PvP, but occasionally I'll play something tanky or got the heals.
I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.
I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.13 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dragons are not like mindless beasts
They have language, they had cults, they are extremely powerful
It's really easy to believe that an extremely powerful intelligent being would be extremely difficult to find if they didn't want to be.
It also makes a ton of sense that somewhere else (lol) such a powerful critter has been prisoner (king rilis comes to mind and the other ton of powerful things locked away - hell Selene was hidden till you go get her)6 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭See it’s pretty funny
We have this guy in Skyrim his name is Esbern, he is the Grand Lore Master of the Blades. The lore master is in charge of preserving all the knowledge of the Akaviri Draginguard. This position was passed down through the generations
Esbern tells your the Dragonguard hunted down and killed every dragon, only 4 dragons survived beyond the 1st era. The last of them were mostly killed by the Dragonguard. It was part of their core mission, there reason for existence. Their entire mission was:
1. Find a Dragonborn
2. Help Dragonborn absorb as many dragon souls as possible in preparation for Alcuin Return
3. In the meantime guard Dragonborn who ends up bein Emp due to being able to wear Amulet of Kings.
Esbern had access to ALL the writings of the Akaviri Dragonguard in the lore library of the Sky Haven temple before it was destroyed by the Thalmor. The guy was OBSESSED with Dragons and Alduin return. The dragon cult existed outside of Skyrim and the Dragonguard kept their own records along with cross reference dragon cult writings who were even more fanatical with Drahobs than the Blades were.
Esbern said the Dragons were killed off my the Dragonguard with the last of them being killed off during the Remen dynasty before ESO timeline. Only 5 dragons actually escaped the Blades and are being pursued during this time.
The Blades are still active in Tamriel even during ESO but you don’t see them because that’s how they operate. To quote
“ my dad used to tell me you keep secrets as good as the Blades”
Only the grandmaster knew every member and only the loremaster knew the Dragon history. Esbern has access to documents proving a the dragons but like 5 were finished off in the first era during the time of Remen. The dragon lore of Cloud ruler temple and verified by dragon cultist records pretty much prove this
But hey if it’s going to make eso a better game, let them have dragons 😀Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭They can literally put anything at any era and say it's not lore breaking, because they create the lore the way they see fit.
Like with the atronach mounts and other so called not-lore-breaking-animated-weird-stuff they already created.
I don't need dragons in ESO, they are specific for Skyrim game and should stay there.
All I need is spears, the only thing not given for years for no particular reason.
What are you talking about? Dragons are a huge part of tes lore as a whole, skyrim just made them visible. They're in no way " specific to skyrim". Should we begin removing everything else from eso that only physically appeared in one game?
Where are people getting these ideas...? Just say you don't like dragons. It's fine. You don't need an excuse to not enjoy something.8 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not lore-breaking, but hilarious - a Necromancer gets killed by Mannimarco and his soul stolen...Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.10 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »See it’s pretty funny
We have this guy in Skyrim his name is Esbern, he is the Grand Lore Master of the Blades. The lore master is in charge of preserving all the knowledge of the Akaviri Draginguard. This position was passed down through the generations
Esbern tells your the Dragonguard hunted down and killed every dragon, only 4 dragons survived beyond the 1st era. The last of them were mostly killed by the Dragonguard. It was part of their core mission, there reason for existence. Their entire mission was:
1. Find a Dragonborn
2. Help Dragonborn absorb as many dragon souls as possible in preparation for Alcuin Return
3. In the meantime guard Dragonborn who ends up bein Emp due to being able to wear Amulet of Kings.
Esbern had access to ALL the writings of the Akaviri Dragonguard in the lore library of the Sky Haven temple before it was destroyed by the Thalmor. The guy was OBSESSED with Dragons and Alduin return. The dragon cult existed outside of Skyrim and the Dragonguard kept their own records along with cross reference dragon cult writings who were even more fanatical with Drahobs than the Blades were.
Esbern said the Dragons were killed off my the Dragonguard with the last of them being killed off during the Remen dynasty before ESO timeline. Only 5 dragons actually escaped the Blades and are being pursued during this time.
The Blades are still active in Tamriel even during ESO but you don’t see them because that’s how they operate. To quote
“ my dad used to tell me you keep secrets as good as the Blades”
Only the grandmaster knew every member and only the loremaster knew the Dragon history. Esbern has access to documents proving a the dragons but like 5 were finished off in the first era during the time of Remen. The dragon lore of Cloud ruler temple and verified by dragon cultist records pretty much prove this
But hey if it’s going to make eso a better game, let them have dragons 😀
you yourself said that 5 dragons were alive during second era. but ESo cannot have dragons, still?
moreover. is it conceivable, that maybe, just maybe a bunch of dragons seeing how they are being exterminated by the dragonguard... went into hiding BEFOre their existence could be recorded and cataloged? you know... maybe possibly? moreover... it wouldn't be the first OR the last time where documents were tampered with.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They can literally put anything at any era and say it's not lore breaking, because they create the lore the way they see fit.
Like with the atronach mounts and other so called not-lore-breaking-animated-weird-stuff they already created.
I don't need dragons in ESO, they are specific for Skyrim game and should stay there.
All I need is spears, the only thing not given for years for no particular reason.
What are you talking about? dragons are a huge part of tes lore as a whole, skyrim just made them visible. They're in no way " specific to skyrim". Should we begin removing everything else from eso that only physically appeared in one game?
Where are people getting these ideas...? Just say you don't like dragons. It's fine. You don't need an excuse to not enjoy something.
There was a strong implication, or perhaps more than an implication if you read RinaldoGandolphi's post, that Dragons haven't been seen since the First Era and that having them in ESO is lore taking second place to the desire to put in something "cool and recognisable" from Skyrim which they think will draw in more players.
Now I fully accept that it's Bethesda's lore and if they want dragons in the Second Era then that's their right, but I do hope we get a strong lore justification for it so that it doesn't feel like a lazy retcon.1 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Dragons are not like mindless beasts
The way I have portrayed them in fiction and RPGs they are......kinda like flying sharks all they do is kill eat and make little Dragons.
The shock when someone finds out that this isn't a Lizard version Neil deGrasse Tyson.....it's Jeffrey Dahmer and your'e lunch.
But this is Tamriel so....
Edited by Rain_Greyraven on January 16, 2019 6:29PM"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.1 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭adriant1978 wrote: »They can literally put anything at any era and say it's not lore breaking, because they create the lore the way they see fit.
Like with the atronach mounts and other so called not-lore-breaking-animated-weird-stuff they already created.
I don't need dragons in ESO, they are specific for Skyrim game and should stay there.
All I need is spears, the only thing not given for years for no particular reason.
What are you talking about? dragons are a huge part of tes lore as a whole, skyrim just made them visible. They're in no way " specific to skyrim". Should we begin removing everything else from eso that only physically appeared in one game?
Where are people getting these ideas...? Just say you don't like dragons. It's fine. You don't need an excuse to not enjoy something.
There was a strong implication, or perhaps more than an implication if you read RinaldoGandolphi's post, that Dragons haven't been seen since the First Era and that having them in ESO is lore taking second place to the desire to put in something "cool and recognisable" from Skyrim which they think will draw in more players.
Now I fully accept that it's Bethesda's lore and if they want dragons in the Second Era then that's their right, but I do hope we get a strong lore justification for it so that it doesn't feel like a lazy retcon.
1 : Please reread. They did not, in any way, all die.
2 : They are still not "specific to skyrim", that post literally proved that point.
3 : These dragons were literally caged in the trailer, i.e, it's likely their existence was not widely discussed because, ya know, they didn't want people to pull a tharn.
4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.
5 : There is nothing wrong with a company deciding to give people what they ask for (necromancers) or what's popular (dragons) especially if it does fit the lore, which it does.
6 : I don't want skyrim yet either, but I'm tired of people shouting " but lore" to justify their dislike of a certain theme when it's not lore breaking. Especially because many of them are just parroting incorrect information they've heard from equally uninformed people. Just say you don't liked it, it's cool not to like stuff.Edited by haelene on January 16, 2019 6:36PM15 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Esbern does not know every dragon. He knows (almost) every dragon who's name is known.
For example, I seriously doubt he knows of Vulthuryol.9 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »See it’s pretty funny
We have this guy in Skyrim his name is Esbern, he is the Grand Lore Master of the Blades. The lore master is in charge of preserving all the knowledge of the Akaviri Draginguard. This position was passed down through the generations
Esbern tells your the Dragonguard hunted down and killed every dragon, only 4 dragons survived beyond the 1st era. The last of them were mostly killed by the Dragonguard. It was part of their core mission, there reason for existence. Their entire mission was:
1. Find a Dragonborn
2. Help Dragonborn absorb as many dragon souls as possible in preparation for Alcuin Return
3. In the meantime guard Dragonborn who ends up bein Emp due to being able to wear Amulet of Kings.
Esbern had access to ALL the writings of the Akaviri Dragonguard in the lore library of the Sky Haven temple before it was destroyed by the Thalmor. The guy was OBSESSED with Dragons and Alduin return. The dragon cult existed outside of Skyrim and the Dragonguard kept their own records along with cross reference dragon cult writings who were even more fanatical with Drahobs than the Blades were.
Esbern said the Dragons were killed off my the Dragonguard with the last of them being killed off during the Remen dynasty before ESO timeline. Only 5 dragons actually escaped the Blades and are being pursued during this time.
The Blades are still active in Tamriel even during ESO but you don’t see them because that’s how they operate. To quote
“ my dad used to tell me you keep secrets as good as the Blades”
Only the grandmaster knew every member and only the loremaster knew the Dragon history. Esbern has access to documents proving a the dragons but like 5 were finished off in the first era during the time of Remen. The dragon lore of Cloud ruler temple and verified by dragon cultist records pretty much prove this
But hey if it’s going to make eso a better game, let them have dragons 😀
If you want to get technical, one of the Dungeons in the DLC is a Dwemer ruin. Sooo, we are talking about artifacts from when the Dwemer were around, and they disappeared in the middle of the1st era. So, it is entirely plausible that the Dwemer locked up a number of dragons before they disappeared, maybe even before the 1st era even began and the Dragonguard have no way of accounting for these missing dragons, so they assumed them dead, or just did not know of them to begin with.8 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »It's really easy to believe that an extremely powerful intelligent being would be extremely difficult to find if they didn't want to be.
Especially a being which can fly and go places where people cannot.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am kinda worried about the justice system that will affect necromancy. Simply because it opens "gate" for doing the same for Vamps & WW.adriant1978 wrote: »Dragons need some explanation, I'll agree, but how does a necromancer class break lore? They even said that there will be negative justice system reactions to it which aids immersion.
Tell me. It would be weird if a city guard would react to a necromancer rising corpses in the middle of a town but would not react to Werewolfs or stage 4 Vampires running around town ...Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on January 16, 2019 6:42PM5 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Dragons are not like mindless beasts
The way I have portrayed them in fiction and RPGs they are......kinda like flying sharks all they do is kill eat and make little Dragons.
The shock when someone finds out that this isn't a Lizard version Neil deGrasse Tyson.....it's Jeffrey Dahmer and your'e lunch.
But this is Tamriel so....
As per the Live Stream yesterday, they said Dragons aren't 'born', they are brought into existence some how.
Could go with part of the Blades thing. Yeah, they killed the existing dragons that they could find. But what is stopping more from being brought into existence? (A question I have no idea how to answer)PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc3 -
DjMuscleboy02✭✭✭✭✭Imagine thinking you know more about ES lore than Lawrence Schick...Edited by DjMuscleboy02 on January 16, 2019 6:43PMBrodor - PC NA - ESO's only pure bodybuilding guild
Hodor, but stronger16 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop already with it breaks lore. If the company that creates the lore decides to evolve their story further then it does not break lore. Have a static set in stone lore like it's a real history is boring and uninspired of discoveries.
Even real history evolves as we discover more.7 -
Demra✭✭✭Well also consider history books. Do you believe that everything that is written is always true and happened in the exact way historians describe the events? Often what historians claim to be true at one point in time later as new evidence emerge turns to be false or half true. Perhaps the lore can be viewed in similar fashion.8
-
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.
Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.
5
