So I guess lore is completely being tossed now.

myskyrim26

A lot of posts are already here explaining both dragons and necromancers. Both ARE lore-friendly.

Krayl

Heaven forbid the lore evolves to make good game content.

Stop acting like this game series is based on Tolkien or the Bible. It's not. THE LORE EXISTS TO SERVE THE GAME. Not vice versa. If retconning some elements of perceived lore makes a better game and more interesting content, I'm all for it.

haelene

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.

Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.

I agree for sure. Where we differ is that I think we already do have a pretty solid idea of the lore. They were locked away by the dwemer or someone/someone's/something that had access to dwemer stuff - likely before the war against the dragons even happened and likely with Meridia's assistance. I doubt there would be any records because... well.. Tharn is not the only one who makes silly mistakes like he does in the trailer. People's curiosity or power lust or penchant for messing with stuff they don't understand and all that.

True, this is conjecture at this point - but given the clues, it's a pretty educated guess.

adriant1978

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.

Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.

I agree for sure. Where we differ is that I think we already do have a pretty solid idea of the lore. They were locked away by the dwemer or someone/someone's/something that had access to dwemer stuff - likely before the war against the dragons even happened and likely with Meridia's assistance. I doubt there would be any records because... well.. Tharn is not the only one who makes silly mistakes like he does in the trailer. People's curiosity or power lust or penchant for messing with stuff they don't understand and all that.

True, this is conjecture at this point - but given the clues, it's a pretty educated guess.

Sounds good. I'd only add that they also need to work in why these events were forgotten about by the 4th Era and never ended up in Esbern's voluminous collection of Dragon lore. You might think that Dragons rampaging over Elsweyr at the same time as an invasion by an undead Imperial army would get written down somewhere.

Hallothiel

Krayl wrote: »

Heaven forbid the lore evolves to make good game content.

Stop acting like this game series is based on Tolkien or the Bible. It's not. THE LORE EXISTS TO SERVE THE GAME. Not vice versa. If retconning some elements of perceived lore makes a better game and more interesting content, I'm all for it.

Early Christian Church Councils decided which books would go into the Bible & which would be left out as not following the thinking at that time.

And Christopher Tolkien is responsible for Middle Earth being untouchable - iirc JRR wanted the stories to be more like new myths/legends for England - and legends & myths are always changing to fit the times & new interpretations.

And so to those wibbling on about dragons being lore-breaking - if the creator of the lore says they fit, then they fit!

xxthir13enxx

My Gawd you people act like you’ve never heard of the Multiverse!!!!

haelene

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.

Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.

I agree for sure. Where we differ is that I think we already do have a pretty solid idea of the lore. They were locked away by the dwemer or someone/someone's/something that had access to dwemer stuff - likely before the war against the dragons even happened and likely with Meridia's assistance. I doubt there would be any records because... well.. Tharn is not the only one who makes silly mistakes like he does in the trailer. People's curiosity or power lust or penchant for messing with stuff they don't understand and all that.

True, this is conjecture at this point - but given the clues, it's a pretty educated guess.

Sounds good. I'd only add that they also need to work in why these events were forgotten about by the 4th Era and never ended up in Esbern's voluminous collection of Dragon lore. You might think that Dragons rampaging over Elsweyr at the same time as an invasion by an undead Imperial army would get written down somewhere.

To be fair - how often do you hear about other major historical events that happened during the same time as the holocaust? People remember the worst stuff and the stuff that affects them personally/happened in the location they live. I think the war in Cyrodill would be more impactfull to more people as whole, especially in a time where there's no internet and writings/history is so easily lost.

Also, by that logic (though I agree with it), we also need to discuss why mention of Molag Bal literally trying to stuff Nirn into Coldharbor wasn't in the history books. :P Seriously. Dude was trying to merge plains and no one seems to remember that!

Linaleah

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.

Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.

I agree for sure. Where we differ is that I think we already do have a pretty solid idea of the lore. They were locked away by the dwemer or someone/someone's/something that had access to dwemer stuff - likely before the war against the dragons even happened and likely with Meridia's assistance. I doubt there would be any records because... well.. Tharn is not the only one who makes silly mistakes like he does in the trailer. People's curiosity or power lust or penchant for messing with stuff they don't understand and all that.

True, this is conjecture at this point - but given the clues, it's a pretty educated guess.

Sounds good. I'd only add that they also need to work in why these events were forgotten about by the 4th Era and never ended up in Esbern's voluminous collection of Dragon lore. You might think that Dragons rampaging over Elsweyr at the same time as an invasion by an undead Imperial army would get written down somewhere.

To be fair - how often do you hear about other major historical events that happened during the same time as the holocaust? People remember the worst stuff and the stuff that affects them personally/happened in the location they live. I think the war in Cyrodill would be more impactfull to more people as whole, especially in a time where there's no internet and writings/history is so easily lost.

Also, by that logic (though I agree with it), we also need to discuss why mention of Molag Bal literally trying to stuff Nirn into Coldharbor wasn't in the history books. :P Seriously. Dude was trying to merge plains and no one seems to remember that!

doesn't he constantly do that? its like his thing, he believes that Nirn belongs to him and keeps trying to take it over, so just one more try form him, wouldn't be all that significant, especially since it failed. again.

haelene

Linaleah wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

4 : The absolute best thing about tes lore is that nothing ever gives a complete picture ( like real history), so they're are things that can be missing out incorrect and that's completely normal.

Absolutely! As long as there is a good lore explanation for these Dragons being in this place at this time, and not on Esbern's list, I'm cool with it. I have a lot of faith that the writers will deliver.

I agree for sure. Where we differ is that I think we already do have a pretty solid idea of the lore. They were locked away by the dwemer or someone/someone's/something that had access to dwemer stuff - likely before the war against the dragons even happened and likely with Meridia's assistance. I doubt there would be any records because... well.. Tharn is not the only one who makes silly mistakes like he does in the trailer. People's curiosity or power lust or penchant for messing with stuff they don't understand and all that.

True, this is conjecture at this point - but given the clues, it's a pretty educated guess.

Sounds good. I'd only add that they also need to work in why these events were forgotten about by the 4th Era and never ended up in Esbern's voluminous collection of Dragon lore. You might think that Dragons rampaging over Elsweyr at the same time as an invasion by an undead Imperial army would get written down somewhere.

To be fair - how often do you hear about other major historical events that happened during the same time as the holocaust? People remember the worst stuff and the stuff that affects them personally/happened in the location they live. I think the war in Cyrodill would be more impactfull to more people as whole, especially in a time where there's no internet and writings/history is so easily lost.

Also, by that logic (though I agree with it), we also need to discuss why mention of Molag Bal literally trying to stuff Nirn into Coldharbor wasn't in the history books. :P Seriously. Dude was trying to merge plains and no one seems to remember that!

doesn't he constantly do that? its like his thing, he believes that Nirn belongs to him and keeps trying to take it over, so just one more try form him, wouldn't be all that significant, especially since it failed. again.

Well, it got pretty close - you would think it would at least come up in the fighter's guild / mage's guild histories that they worked together despite the war and it was awesome, and blah blah blah, we bested him and all that.

Donny_Vito

This was just a troll post, and a good one at it. The OP has not said anything afterwards, so obviously there wasn't any merit to his allegations.

karthrag_inak

ESO is taking place 705 years before Arena, and over a 1000 years before Skyrim. I wouldn't trust the veracity of "lore" that old in the real world, let alone in a game world. Too many folks get their knickers in a bunch by confusing their Elder Scrolls "religion" (lore about an ancient time used to augment the world-building in other ES games) with Elder Scrolls "fact" (what the devs actually implement in each game).

ghastley

If you played Skyrim, you know that dead dragons can get resurrected, so even if they are dead in this time period, all we need to have them back is ... necromancers!

Knootewoot

Lore, lore, lore. Everybody thinks they are a loremaster now. It should be a class in ESO.

Skill line 1: Complain about lore

You know that everything added could be added to the lore, or as a seperate incident that was not forseen or written by the Elderscrolls.

I mean most stuff in ESO is already "Lore broken"

To name a few:

- Dragon knights
- Stamina spells
- Elderscrolls in Cyrodill. These things locations should not be known, and as someone did they would relocate themselves to another area. Just as the amount of scrolls nobody knows as they will increase of decrease at a whim
- Cyrodill is supposed to be a jungle
- Cropsford is there but hasn't even been founded


But as the endcredits of the game already sais: "Based on the Elderscrolls"

cough.. cough cough... ooh, i got a cold.

And even so, i am glad they add stuff to the game. Lorebreaking or not. As long as people have fun fighting dragons. I know i look forward to it.

gepe87

I can imagine the danger from dragon unleash in Elsewyr and the other province are too busy and paying no attention (cause vanilla dont get script update).

Claudman

Knootewoot wrote: »

Lore, lore, lore. Everybody thinks they are a loremaster now. It should be a class in ESO.

Skill line 1: Complain about lore

You know that everything added could be added to the lore, or as a seperate incident that was not forseen or written by the Elderscrolls.

I mean most stuff in ESO is already "Lore broken"

To name a few:

- Dragon knights
- Stamina spells
- Elderscrolls in Cyrodill. These things locations should not be known, and as someone did they would relocate themselves to another area. Just as the amount of scrolls nobody knows as they will increase of decrease at a whim
- Cyrodill is supposed to be a jungle
- Cropsford is there but hasn't even been founded


But as the endcredits of the game already sais: "Based on the Elderscrolls"

So it isn't a prequel or follow up to the TES series. It's rather a seperate alternate reality of the game.

And even so, i am glad they add stuff to the game. Lorebreaking or not. As long as people have fun fighting dragons. I know i look forward to it.

You had me until you said Alternate Reality. Lol

That's never been confirmed, it has indeed been denied. Even if it was a Dragon Break, everything in ESO would still be canon.

xaraan

Even in Skryim there were Dragons still around that had nothing to do with Alduin or the storyline that had just stayed hidden away. So this is just a bad complaint made by people looking to whine IMO.

As for necromancy being against lore? How so? Are you suggesting there cannot be a class for a type of enemy we run into non-stop in the game? Someone is obviously teaching necromancy and spreading it. What class are all those necromancers I keep running into? I think tying it into the justice system is a nice touch personally (I feel like they should do the same with vampric abilities or someone wolfing out as well IMO).

And let's stop pretending Bethesda is somehow godly with their lore responsibilities when they make games and never take liberties. coughfo76cough I feel ZoS is more careful with how they work the lore into creating new stories than Bethesda tbh.

M_Volsung

jaws343 wrote: »

If you want to get technical, one of the Dungeons in the DLC is a Dwemer ruin. Sooo, we are talking about artifacts from when the Dwemer were around, and they disappeared in the middle of the1st era. So, it is entirely plausible that the Dwemer locked up a number of dragons before they disappeared, maybe even before the 1st era even began and the Dragonguard have no way of accounting for these missing dragons, so they assumed them dead, or just did not know of them to begin with.

*coughBlackReachcough*

Grimm13

You want a plausible story to get your mind to accept this lore update? Here's some thoughts. As pointed out during the live cast, there are no baby dragons and no children in ESO.

The children were sent into the future to ensure that they survived Molag Bal. A population without children to carry on the knowledge has to rely on only a written history that can be lost. Everyone dies and Cropsford is refounded as to when the children were sent.

DovahkiinHeart

Just like how it is part of human nature to be somewhat resistance to change and what is unfamiliar, there will always be a population of players who aren't ready to embrace the whole concept of dragons in this time period for various reasons. But rather than play the irrational 'they can do whatever they want cuz they said so!' ego card that a lot of players are doing whenever someone so much as voices a different opinion other than joy/excitement about this chapter, I will just say to give Elsweyr a chance and see how it plays out first. We like things to be consistent and reliable and that includes information, I get it, but hopefully the story line will provide a satisfying answer to why things happen the way they did.

Knootewoot

Claudman wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Lore, lore, lore. Everybody thinks they are a loremaster now. It should be a class in ESO.

Skill line 1: Complain about lore

You know that everything added could be added to the lore, or as a seperate incident that was not forseen or written by the Elderscrolls.

I mean most stuff in ESO is already "Lore broken"

To name a few:

- Dragon knights
- Stamina spells
- Elderscrolls in Cyrodill. These things locations should not be known, and as someone did they would relocate themselves to another area. Just as the amount of scrolls nobody knows as they will increase of decrease at a whim
- Cyrodill is supposed to be a jungle
- Cropsford is there but hasn't even been founded


But as the endcredits of the game already sais: "Based on the Elderscrolls"

So it isn't a prequel or follow up to the TES series. It's rather a seperate alternate reality of the game.

And even so, i am glad they add stuff to the game. Lorebreaking or not. As long as people have fun fighting dragons. I know i look forward to it.

You had me until you said Alternate Reality. Lol

That's never been confirmed, it has indeed been denied. Even if it was a Dragon Break, everything in ESO would still be canon.

Dang, i knew i should stop typing after the points i made.

Caligamy_ESO

Dragons exist in Tamriel, some are immortal and literally incapable of death. Like Durnehviir who even when defeated by the actual Dragonborn could not be absorbed and came right back moments later to strike a deal with the Dragonborn. If you lore criers would actually read the lore history you constantly profess you would realize there are MANY dragons in this era in different areas. Vvardenfell is supposed to have one in hiding, the Battlespire where Imperial Battlemages like Abnur Tharn trains has one at this time, The Soul Cairn has one, etc..

Clearly the dragons we saw in the trailer were locked up for a long time imprisoned, how is it lore breaking that someone set them free?

And Necromancers.... have always been in every ES game and you've always been able to play as one. In every ESO trailer there is one character who is in focus that represents the placeholder for us as the vestige. In the original it was the EP Warrior who is sent to Coldharbour, in Vvardenfell it was the Warden, in Summerset we were the elf, in Elseweyr we are the Breton hero who clearly did not necessarily choose to be a Necromancer as he was turned into one by the daedra.





^ THIS is who we are in Chapter 3, and if you watch AND listen to the last ESO Twitch they say all of this. But I suspect a lot will just stick their head further in the sand.

ezikeo

Has anyone else noticed that in battlegrounds, I’m not sure what the map its called, however there are a few dragons that fly over us. I’ll take a screen shot when I can.

tclark_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

I feel like they should do the same with vampric abilities or someone wolfing out as well IMO

Agreed!

Hurbster

Mike said the dragons are all around us, just invisible and sneaky. If you can trust a bloke called MIke....

keevil111

Literally necromancers all over the damn place in ESO. Plenty in Oblivion also. And in Skyrim you literally play as "the dragon born" with actual dragons to fight around every corner. Literally.

And WTH is a cliff racer from morrowind if not a literal mini dragon!?

I mean...
























literally!
lol

PrinceShroob

According to Atlas of Dragons -- which is found at Sky Haven Temple in Skyrim and itself says that its list is "sadly incomplete," at least three dragons are known to survive (excluding Paarthurnax), and their last sightings were in the Second Era. In fact, Nahfahlaar was being protected by King Casimir II of Wayrest after the founding of the Mages Guild. I emphasize that the existence of dragons, even if not common knowledge, is within the realm of living memory for Vanus Galerion and other elves and wizards.

There Be Dragons states that "[t]he last known sighting of a dragon in Tamriel was in the time of Tiber Septim. He made a pact with the few remaining dragons, swearing to protect them if they would serve him. Despite his promise, dragons were still hunted and slain..." -- that is, according to this scholar, dragons were being hunted into the early Third Era.

This lore is from Skyrim. To say that having dragons in ESO is lore-breaking is complete and utter nonsense.

Michaelkeir

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Tiber septim had a squad of dragons in his army in the late 2nd era. Third era didn't start until after he founded his empire.

What he said...

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Nothing in the new chapter is lore breaking. Dragons do exist in the 2nd era, very, very few of them but they are there. And from what the trailer looks like, some fool released or woke up a dragon and now it's the players job to hunt this boss down and kill it, (or imprison it again.)
As for necromancers, I look at them the same way I look at Thieves guild or Dark Brotherhood players. A nice skill set to have but don't any guards or towns people see you employing your chosen craft.

jaws343

PrinceShroob wrote: »

According to Atlas of Dragons -- which is found at Sky Haven Temple in Skyrim and itself says that its list is "sadly incomplete," at least three dragons are known to survive (excluding Paarthurnax), and their last sightings were in the Second Era. In fact, Nahfahlaar was being protected by King Casimir II of Wayrest after the founding of the Mages Guild. I emphasize that the existence of dragons, even if not common knowledge, is within the realm of living memory for Vanus Galerion and other elves and wizards.

There Be Dragons states that "[t]he last known sighting of a dragon in Tamriel was in the time of Tiber Septim. He made a pact with the few remaining dragons, swearing to protect them if they would serve him. Despite his promise, dragons were still hunted and slain..." -- that is, according to this scholar, dragons were being hunted into the early Third Era.

This lore is from Skyrim. To say that having dragons in ESO is lore-breaking is complete and utter nonsense.

With the amount of lore being pulled up that supports at least a minor presence of Dragons in Tameriel, I am surprised that at least 1 hasn't already been a World Boss or dungeon Boss before now.

BoloBoffin

Esbern was wrong. Change my mind.