Necromancer concerns

Jcarson0408

The concerns are in relation to the planned interaction with the justice system. While very immersive and a cool idea I am very concerned it's going to be highly unbalanced, name one other class that just isn't allowed to use their abilities in a significant amount of areas. Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty. In addition, werewolves and vampires displaying their full werewolf/vampire-ness in front of guards are not impacted by the justice system, so why are necromancers that much worse?
There are several times when there are no justice system guards but there are soldiers for the factions sometimes even the faction leaders. Either there has to be inconsistencies that ruin the whole point of this (Immersion) or it has to be even more unbalanced with wider areas you can't use your abilities.
In addition, the rules against necromancy are not shared in all provinces, some ban it, some have rules and limitations, some it is perfectly legal, so either now the justice system has to be changed to have different rules depending on where you are currently or it has to be unimmersive and everywhere it's kill on sight.
If they go through with their current plans I will probably still play necromancer but as it stands balancing ONE class with a restriction like not being able to use their abilities in several areas is a nightmare the devs should not put themselves through.

SanTii.92

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

Algraxa

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

Yeah, agreed...

All my night blades are part of the thieves guild and or Assassins guild and the only time I am using the players skills in a town are to use these sub-class skills, which both have the same limitations/issues. I am used to it and will likely roll a Necro/guild build.

adriant1978

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

Krayl

Legit concerns but this is why they have, yaknow, a game development team working on it.

Anhedonie

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

Jcarson0408

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

josiahva

You people want necromancy and then are going to complain about the result of being a necromancer? lol. Vampires are ugly because its a disfiguring disease...they can hide behind gear though...necromancers using those abilities cant.

Caligamy_ESO

I think this kind of system is well past due and should be applied to every class and every action that makes sense for it. Just like every ES game that has ever come out, actions in town pissed off the residents, or got you into trouble.

And yeah your own fault if you choose to duel in a heavy guild trader location.

Slack

I hope you are able to kill a few quest NPCs in a town without having to summon undead minions which fight for you



People just want to have everything compensated:

There was a free 1week trial of ESO;
"ZOMG I payed for that week and they didn't, I demand compensation!!"

You can't raise the undead in towns
"ZOMG That's unfair, I don't even need to, but I want compensation"

therift

Dueling should cause a guard riot.

Grimm13

This justice system still remains to be seen as to how it will work. We have no idea if it is like the criminal one or something totally different. I think the concept is good to have the negative reactions. Also believe that dueling, Vamps and Were's should also be included.

Should be more reasons for Vamps to want to reduce from stage 4 more. Also Were's should also curb the use of the powers in towns as well. Dueling in towns also should carry a negative effect by the populace. All these a populace should not want to have near them as they are dangerous for the average person.

phairdon

Assume the necromancer class will be tested on pts. Good way to find out what the consequences are for using certain skills within towns.

Jcarson0408

josiahva wrote: »

You people want necromancy and then are going to complain about the result of being a necromancer? lol. Vampires are ugly because its a disfiguring disease...they can hide behind gear though...necromancers using those abilities cant.

What about werewolves going into werewolf form?

Slack wrote: »

I hope you are able to kill a few quest NPCs in a town without having to summon undead minions which fight for you



People just want to have everything compensated:

There was a free 1week trial of ESO;
"ZOMG I payed for that week and they didn't, I demand compensation!!"

You can't raise the undead in towns
"ZOMG That's unfair, I don't even need to, but I want compensation"

I WANT to be able to play a class without the restrictions that no other class has anything even REMOTELY close to. I'd rather that than compensation. Why you suddenly think this is about compensation is beyond me. It's possible for all classes to kill most NPCs without their abilities so why should any class be able to use their abilities in that situation but not one specific one from a purely game balance point?

Slack

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I hope you are able to kill a few quest NPCs in a town without having to summon undead minions which fight for you



People just want to have everything compensated:

There was a free 1week trial of ESO;
"ZOMG I payed for that week and they didn't, I demand compensation!!"

You can't raise the undead in towns
"ZOMG That's unfair, I don't even need to, but I want compensation"

I WANT to be able to play a class without the restrictions that no other class has anything even REMOTELY close to. I'd rather that than compensation. Why you suddenly think this is about compensation is beyond me.

Well maybe because of that

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

AdamBourke

I agree that it would be weird to only have justice reactions for necromancy - other things like daedric summoning should also get them!

I hope they don't limit this to necromancy.

Tasear

To be fair they are locations without guards like coldharbor. This will just make those locations more popular.

zaria

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

Yes, the dog quest in Wayrest is first who comes to my mind, however you can just use you staff skills here.
More of an issue with all the quests you help npc, no guards around but if you get bounty if pickpocket or attack them.

Jcarson0408

Slack wrote: »

I hope you are able to kill a few quest NPCs in a town without having to summon undead minions which fight for you



People just want to have everything compensated:

There was a free 1week trial of ESO;
"ZOMG I payed for that week and they didn't, I demand compensation!!"

You can't raise the undead in towns
"ZOMG That's unfair, I don't even need to, but I want compensation"

Slack wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I hope you are able to kill a few quest NPCs in a town without having to summon undead minions which fight for you



People just want to have everything compensated:

There was a free 1week trial of ESO;
"ZOMG I payed for that week and they didn't, I demand compensation!!"

You can't raise the undead in towns
"ZOMG That's unfair, I don't even need to, but I want compensation"

I WANT to be able to play a class without the restrictions that no other class has anything even REMOTELY close to. I'd rather that than compensation. Why you suddenly think this is about compensation is beyond me.

Well maybe because of that

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

The point of mentioning compensation was it isn't just a restriction with some upside that only this class gets. It's just kneecapping a class in a way that no other class has anything similar to so throws off class balance. They clearly don't care that much about lore when making the previous classes. Earth manipulation hadn't been a widespread thing before Dragonknight in addition to the oddness of suddenly having a lot of people know Akaviri magic. Divine favor has never manifested itself so noticeably outside of the Templar class. Sorcerer is mostly fine aside from the Dark Magic tree coming from nowhere and Daedric summoning also needing the justice system if we use the same logic we are applying to Necromancers. Nightblade is a stretch but mostly is based off things in TeS lore. Wardens are just a mess, the healing tree is nothing unheard of even if players had never been able to use it in TeS games before, but the other two...why are all the animals aside from the bear so Morrowind heavy? Dark elves aren't well known for their love of nature so why Morrowind animals? The other two specs are clearly not tied to Morrowind at all so why is this spec so Morrowind dependant? Then the frost spec, completely disconnected with the class, what does frost have to do with nature protectors?
Why did they completely ignore lore on most of the classes in the game? Because they wanted to make the game fun. So why decide with this class to make it unbalanced to follow lore when lore wasn't a problem before? Is spamming light attacks fun? If not then why go ahead and forcing one class to do so or suffer consequences in a way that leaves the class weaker than the others?

Tipsy

Just realized Meridia would never grant necromancer dawnbreaker lol
so logically that skills would be unavailable to them.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Its such shuch a minor problem that I dont get all the complaints. I plan to roll a necro like so many other player and I really dont care about the necromancy interdiction.

I just never use abilities anyway in town. Tje fact that my tank min/max have to use a staff bothers me far more.

dazee

josiahva wrote: »

You people want necromancy and then are going to complain about the result of being a necromancer? lol. Vampires are ugly because its a disfiguring disease...they can hide behind gear though...necromancers using those abilities cant.

Guard can't arrest you if you summon 50 zombies to keep him busy while you finish your quest! I'm sure that's how it will be handled right?

StormeReigns

Meh. I plan on terrorizing every yellow NPC in as many towns as possible when I roll my Necro.

I mean, c'mon pick-pick-stab-reanimate. .. what's not to love?

Conduit0

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Its such shuch a minor problem that I dont get all the complaints. I plan to roll a necro like so many other player and I really dont care about the necromancy interdiction.

I just never use abilities anyway in town. Tje fact that my tank min/max have to use a staff bothers me far more.

I don't think its so much that people see this as a significant detriment to being a necromancer, rather I think some people see it as being rather unfair that Necromancers are being singled out while other hated/illegal things like daedra summoning, or vampires and werewolves(which are even more feared and hated than necromancers) get a free pass.

Alucardo

Necromancer can't use abilities in towns? I guess the duelling arena outside of town will finally be used after all.

Dragneel1207

if u did not notice
stealing makes the gaurd kill u
killing npcs makes the guard kill u
feeding as a vampire or werewolf inside towns makes the guard kill u
what the OP mentioned is not all info. and plz dont rub skyrim justice system with eso

idk

I think it is best to see how this actually plays out on the PTS when we start testing the chapter in a few weeks. There is more unknown than known at this time.

Danikat

I'd actually prefer to see this imbalance solved by adding penalties to the other classes too. (Note: I have at least 1 character of each class, plus a vampire and I do the TG and DB quests and justice achievements, so yes this would affect me too.)

It makes no sense that the guards are fine with sorcerers bringing a swarm of daedra into town or even wardens with a bear coming after them, or that they accept anyone fighting in the middle of the town with AoEs being thrown around.

Yes there would have to be exceptions for quests which require you to fight in a town, but I'm sure that could be handled the same way it is in other TES games - if you're attacking only your intended target, who is already aggressive towards you, then it's not a crime, it's self defence.

And as someone said earlier ideally it should be handled differently in each province based on local laws and customs. That might be harder to do because it would mean separately programmed guards for each one and there would need to be a way to communicate the differences to players, but it would be great if they could do that.

Dragneel1207

Then dks spamming wings should also be banned. Since u know a dragon with wings!!
As far as i know the necro justice system will be like u cant res zombies in towns other than that they wont have any problems and u all are over reacting

biminirwb17_ESO

Don't like the way necros are treated, don't buy the Cat Chapter

Tasear

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Its such shuch a minor problem that I dont get all the complaints. I plan to roll a necro like so many other player and I really dont care about the necromancy interdiction.

I just never use abilities anyway in town. Tje fact that my tank min/max have to use a staff bothers me far more.

^ agreed especially that last part.