Necromancer concerns

Browiseth

don't you just love it when the game world gets in the way of the game
what a completely backwards mentality for game design

Tasear

There's no guards in coldharbor or justice system.

Nerouyn

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty.

No they wouldn't.

The only daedric magic in the single player games are conjured weapons and summons. It's admittedly been a while since I've played some of them but I don't recall guards attacking me for using any of those spells.

The two Daedra specifically associated with sorcerer abilities are Azura and Meridia. Their cults and followers - especially Azura's - are widely tolerated. Summerset might be an exception but even then there's a difference between cults and its followers, and people who simply use daedric magic.

Next time you're on Artaeum look in the fields. There's a storm atronach working in the fields.

Kulvar

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

That's part of the fun. Either you wait for guards to go away or you use other offensive skills (destruction staff)

Joy_Division

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

Because that one class decided to delve into forbidden arts. If you want to use class skills in town, play a class that specializes in stuff that's legal.

srfrogg23

I'm really more concerned about whether it will take into account the quests where you have to kills a hostile NPC in town. It'll be really annoying if we get a bounty just for doing the quest.

But, "wait and see" is the name of the game here. Not going to panic before I see the final product.

Alucardo

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm really more concerned about whether it will take into account the quests where you have to kills a hostile NPC in town. It'll be really annoying if we get a bounty just for doing the quest.

But, "wait and see" is the name of the game here. Not going to panic before I see the final product.

Just light attack them to death. Town NPCs are about as tough as porcelain vs a hammer.

There's also the blade of woe to make things even easier.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Finally a use for those feral Bosmer in Verrant Morass, so many potential minions to be had.

IzzyStardust

I actually am looking forward to it!

Osteos

You're are upset about problems that don't even exist.

Kulvar

In all fairness, I want vampires from stage 1 to 4 (with a way to disguise your vampirism) and werewolves in werewolf form to get attacked by town guards on sight.

xaraan

I love the idea of the justice system added to use of necro powers.

There is no quest in the game requiring use of class abilities to deal it in town. There are so many other abilities to choose from - obviously weapon abilities, but also mage guild, psijic, etc. Some quests people are thinking of aren't even close enough to other citizens to probably trigger a bounty if you did use necro skills.

Personally, I would love to see transformed werewolves and use of vampire skills get the same treatment.

Delpi

I... don't care, at all? Because... NECROMANCEEEEER! xD

StormeReigns

Sad no one has a gif of Oingo Boingo's song Dead man's party...

Would really liven up this thread.

Svidrir

The Vampire work why not the Nécro

wolfie1.0.

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

The concerns are in relation to the planned interaction with the justice system. While very immersive and a cool idea I am very concerned it's going to be highly unbalanced, name one other class that just isn't allowed to use their abilities in a significant amount of areas. Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty. In addition, werewolves and vampires displaying their full werewolf/vampire-ness in front of guards are not impacted by the justice system, so why are necromancers that much worse?
There are several times when there are no justice system guards but there are soldiers for the factions sometimes even the faction leaders. Either there has to be inconsistencies that ruin the whole point of this (Immersion) or it has to be even more unbalanced with wider areas you can't use your abilities.
In addition, the rules against necromancy are not shared in all provinces, some ban it, some have rules and limitations, some it is perfectly legal, so either now the justice system has to be changed to have different rules depending on where you are currently or it has to be unimmersive and everywhere it's kill on sight.
If they go through with their current plans I will probably still play necromancer but as it stands balancing ONE class with a restriction like not being able to use their abilities in several areas is a nightmare the devs should not put themselves through.

More than likely the end result will just be some nasty comments and/or reactions from npc's

Merlin13KAGL

Nerouyn wrote: »

The only daedric magic in the single player games are conjured weapons and summons. It's admittedly been a while since I've played some of them but I don't recall guards attacking me for using any of those spells.

@Nerouyn to be fair, at least in Morrowind, they were supposed to attack you if you summoned in town (according to the tooltip), however, they never did.

Regarding the OP, the easiest fix?

Fame. Infamy.

Your reputation should precede you.

Valkysas154

Don't forget pvp allot of ppl like pvping in towns - Tho they should make it where no one can imo

Def going to taunt necros with my templar skills in towns tho try and get them to slip up and cast a necro skill

Nerouyn

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Nerouyn to be fair, at least in Morrowind, they were supposed to attack you if you summoned in town (according to the tooltip), however, they never did.

That's not fair. That's imaginative.

I happened to have the disc handy so installed it. Conjuration spell tooltips don't say that.

MLGProPlayer

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

There is no need to balance quests. You can complete a quest fight by just light attacking.

Jcarson0408

Oh wow I am surprised this got more attention I thought I died. I guess it got NECRO'D! I'm sorry you guys had to read that.

Dragneel1207 wrote: »

if u did not notice
stealing makes the gaurd kill u
killing npcs makes the guard kill u
feeding as a vampire or werewolf inside towns makes the guard kill u
what the OP mentioned is not all info. and plz dont rub skyrim justice system with eso

Oh so just Skyrim doesn't care about summoning undead. I'm just a filthy casual! In what TeS game does summoning undead get you arrested? Go ahead. I'll wait. And yes you can summon undead in other TeS games, don't try the excuse of those spells not requiring a corpse in other TeS games.
Stealing and killing friendly NPCs in town isn't part of a class or even helpful in combat (Unless you are in combat with a friendly NPC but the reason why that's not comparable goes without saying)

Jcarson0408

Nerouyn wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty.

No they wouldn't.

The only daedric magic in the single player games are conjured weapons and summons. It's admittedly been a while since I've played some of them but I don't recall guards attacking me for using any of those spells.

The two Daedra specifically associated with sorcerer abilities are Azura and Meridia. Their cults and followers - especially Azura's - are widely tolerated. Summerset might be an exception but even then there's a difference between cults and its followers, and people who simply use daedric magic.

Next time you're on Artaeum look in the fields. There's a storm atronach working in the fields.

Guards don't attack you for undead in the single player games either. It's surprising they even considered this in an MMO when they didn't for vampires and WW despite that being a BIG no no in the single player games. Never heard of the Azura and Meridia thing with sorcs but it's not unbelievable. Though like you said they are not tolerated everywhere, necromancy is not banned in multiple provinces but with the way things are set up even in those provinces.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

There is no need to balance quests. You can complete a quest fight by just light attacking.

There is no need to single out a class with a restriction no other class has anything close to. If we are going based off of what isn't necessary then it seems like they can just not inconsistently add restrictions.

Tommy_The_Gun

I just realized one thing about necromancer. Actually, quite important. They have this instant resurrection ulti right ?

Currently, if some one resurrects you, you have to accept that, by pressing a button (default E). As far as I know necro ulti resurrects people instantly, without asking any confirmation. There are certain situations when you for example don't want to be resurrected. Mostly in PvP though.

In PvE, what if it will be casted on for example some one who is dead & AFK ? Such player will die again to a mob and will have to pay for extra equipment repair for example.

Also, I am pretty sure it will be used by "friendly" guilds that farm AP in PvP, to resurrect random players that are unaware of two enemy guilds being "friendly", so those guilds will get more AP.

In short, this resurrection ulti, without any confirmation on resurrection, opens a door for trolls & griefers.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

I can't remember the last time I had to kill anything in town. Having to kill something without beeing able to use your class skill is a very minor annoyance. And it happen only a couple of time in your whole ESO life. So I don't see this beeing big enough to require any compensation.

Rex-Umbra

Sorc pets should work like necro so tired of seeing them all over every town

Jcarson0408

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

I can't remember the last time I had to kill anything in town. Having to kill something without beeing able to use your class skill is a very minor annoyance. And it happen only a couple of time in your whole ESO life. So I don't see this beeing big enough to require any compensation.

Then it's not a big enough deal to even add to the game.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

I can't remember the last time I had to kill anything in town. Having to kill something without beeing able to use your class skill is a very minor annoyance. And it happen only a couple of time in your whole ESO life. So I don't see this beeing big enough to require any compensation.

Then it's not a big enough deal to even add to the game.

For RPG purpose, yes

ZaroktheImmortal

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Nerouyn wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Based off of immersion reasons 2/3 of the sorcerer trees would also have the same penalty.

No they wouldn't.

The only daedric magic in the single player games are conjured weapons and summons. It's admittedly been a while since I've played some of them but I don't recall guards attacking me for using any of those spells.

The two Daedra specifically associated with sorcerer abilities are Azura and Meridia. Their cults and followers - especially Azura's - are widely tolerated. Summerset might be an exception but even then there's a difference between cults and its followers, and people who simply use daedric magic.

Next time you're on Artaeum look in the fields. There's a storm atronach working in the fields.

Guards don't attack you for undead in the single player games either. It's surprising they even considered this in an MMO when they didn't for vampires and WW despite that being a BIG no no in the single player games. Never heard of the Azura and Meridia thing with sorcs but it's not unbelievable. Though like you said they are not tolerated everywhere, necromancy is not banned in multiple provinces but with the way things are set up even in those provinces.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Why would you even want to use a skill on a town.

There are quests which require you to get into fights in town. Some of the early Covenant ones in Daggerfall, for example.

weapon skills still aren't banned though. And quests are joke in terms of difficulty. You can do them all by just light attacking, don't even need to use force pulse/rapid strikes.

You CAN. How is it balanced to force ONE class into that restriction without any other class restricted that way or any form of compensation for that restriction?

There is no need to balance quests. You can complete a quest fight by just light attacking.

There is no need to single out a class with a restriction no other class has anything close to. If we are going based off of what isn't necessary then it seems like they can just not inconsistently add restrictions.

They did actually attack vampire players in morrowind if I remember in fact you couldn't quest or do anything except some vampire quests in morrowind which was really annoying and made being a vampire useless. Some people made mods to change this in morrowind but without mods you couldn't complete the game as a vampire. Probably why they didn't put this in with vampirism in the later games. And I'm hoping they don't decide to make vampirism a crime in this one either. It clearly didn't even work for the single player ones and it'd be even more annoying in an MMO where we can't just simply use a mod to get rid of stupid things like that.

gamescan

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm really more concerned about whether it will take into account the quests where you have to kills a hostile NPC in town. It'll be really annoying if we get a bounty just for doing the quest.

But, "wait and see" is the name of the game here. Not going to panic before I see the final product.

You can use normal means to attack and not get a bounty for using your necro powers.

Avoid necro powers in town, avoid necro bounty. Worst case, you pay off your bounty.

Nerouyn

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Guards don't attack you for undead in the single player games either.

Morrowind and Skyrim were set in places which weren't totally anti necromancy.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

I don't think we've heard anything official on this but none of us would be surprised if necromancy isn't considered a crime in ESO's Telvanni towns.

Everywhere else we would expect guards to consider it a crime because of the war. Even if Skyrim and Elswyr are ok with necromancy, both are part of alliances participating in a major war and that changes the rules.

Eg. at any other point in time the Bosmer would go nuts if you picked a flower in Valenwood. In ESO though the worst you should expect to suffer for it is amusing snarky commenary from nearby NPCs.

In the case of Morrowind and Oblivion, we're also talking about very old games with infant crime systems.

Lore says that most of Tamriel is against necromancy. ESO has a moderately robust crime and punishment system and it just wouldn't make sense to have players flaunting their necromancy in front of guards without consequences.

Jcarson0408 wrote: »

Never heard of the Azura and Meridia thing with sorcs but it's not unbelievable.

Which "thing" are you referring to? Their association with the sorcerer class or being less reviled than other Daedra?

Sorc abilities specifically reference these two. Surely someone as knowledgeable as you would know this?

Azura moreso and Meridia to a lesser extent are more tolerated in most places. This is known. It's even touched on in ESO. Have you not played it?

Azura is relatively benign. At least she's not transparently malevolent. Break a deal with her and she'll curse the *** of you and your race and end your civilization. But don't do that and you'll be fine.

Meridia is anti undead. If you're not a vampire then she's probably no danger to you.