If you could buff Sorcerer Class then what would you do?

Minalan

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

right now in PvP sorcerers are overpowered.
they do not need buffed.

If you could make one change to ESO, buff snipe or nerf sorc again, which would it be?

Your fans are dying to know...

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

right now in PvP sorcerers are overpowered.
they do not need buffed.

If you could make one change to ESO, buff snipe or nerf sorc again, which would it be?

Your fans are dying to know...

It wouldn't matter he would still lose to a Sorc!

clocksstoppe

I'd rather delete this game than make sorc good again

Zekka

(almost) strictly PvP opinions

Streak: Remove the added end lag so they can be chained without pause, make it more reliable on uneven terrain, reduce the cost penalty to 20%, 50% was okay in pre-morrowind now it's just too much.

Boundless Storm: Give its 7.5s of major expedition back, add 2s of snare/root immunity because you know... BOUNDLESS Storm.

Overload: Energy Overload has potential as a sustain tool for PvE magsorcs but it needs its numbers tweaked, turn Power Overload into a lightning Dawnbreaker, loads of magsorcs use Dawnbreaker despite it being a stamina ultimate and it works.

C-Frag: the hardcast c-frag should be something actually useful and not a "oh sh!t I wasted time and magicka" moment, keep the proc the way it is but make the hardcast something completely different, something like a DoT that applies major breach for about the same cost as crippling grasp, that would help the sorc on major debuff access and self-healing because that would give a reliable way to proc the blood magic passive (Blood magic's CD should probably be longer in consequence).
C-Blast: ZOS should just admit defeat and make it a stamina melee range skill already, seriously... years and years of useless buffs and it's still a bad skill, even worse now that overload ganking is dead.

Rohaus

I would take away their shields. This would stop shield breaker.

ezio45

oh boi i love this thread<3

- Make dark exchange instant cast, noone should have a problem with this since the resource nerf. Sorc desperately needs a heal.

- Increase sustain, sorc sustain is down right pathetic and it causes alot of the issues with making sorc competitive. Running a sustain set and potent brew is still pathetic. Sorc needs outright, passive increases to sustain (pve and pvp issue)

- all of the sorc ultis suck. even negate if your not fighting a zerg. Forget about the lighting atro, overload is crap now and meteor is too highly telegraphed and too slow. GO LOOK at alcasts latest build for sorc, its using the ulti for fighters guild. Increase overload light attack damage, lose atro entirely for something else and make meteor quicker if yyou want to keep the telegraph fine but the skill needs a change to hit the target with them not blocking

- liquid lighting is THE smallest aoe, up its range a little. (this is mainly a QoL change)

- shields, assuming i cant talk the powers at be into ditching all of this bs and going for a major minor system on shields then at least remove the crit from effecting them and lose the resist. this sucks, either your massivle squishy and have some damage or your just a really tanky tank with no damage. There is no middle defense build for sorc now, your either a glass cannon with sub par dmg and are even more frail than a gankblade or your a tank that just goes around mages wrathing players and letting your gro do the rest

- Sorc needs a stun, runecage is even worse than before they buffed it. We have 0 pressure skills, sorc needs something to help drop block and prevent heals. That also cant be reflected

- debuffs, if memory serves we have ONE debuff and it must not be on any of the used morphs because i dont even now what it is. meanwhile nb has, major fractor, major breech, minor maim. Stam sorc has major defile. At the very least sorc should get major fracture and breech, defile would be great too so enemies cant just heal their entire health bar after we attack (god must be nice having actual self heals.....)
-
- Lighting staffs getting buffed too would help theyve been pretty useless since the off balance nerf

if i had to prioritize id say, shields, sustain, heals, stuns are what sorc needs most

ezio45

Minalan wrote: »

Sustain: rework sorc passives for better magicka sustain bonus. Nightblade get ten percent max magicka FFS, at least let sorcs Regen.

Streak: reduce the cost increase penalty or reduce the stacking penalty duration to two or three seconds. Remove the delay between successive streak casts.

Rune cage: this skill does damage again when broken, but still dodgeable. You can counter it easy, but if you neglect to dodge it will hurt.

Crystal frags: remove the minimum travel time, it's already dodgeable, blockable, and reflectable. Being in short range to a melee class or DK is already a risk great enough to warrant a shorter travel time.

Overload: either make the targeting less clunky and speed up the projectile. The current damage level does not justify it being this slow and difficult to strike with.

Shields: change to 60 percent of health for hardened ward, 50 percent for harness. I don't think the cap is a horrible idea now that armor applies to shields, we just need to adjust the percentages.

Bastion: rework this passive, it doesn't do anything with the hard cap. It needs to work exactly the opposite of shattering blows: reduce damage taken by damage shields to counter that CP. You currently have a shield destroying CP with no counter.

Shield breaker: the game has moved on, the original purpose of this set has gone away. You can crit shields and they're capped. Remove this set or repurpose it to increase damage on shields by 20 percent or something.

^^^^^^^^^^ this player makes some good ideas too

shieldbreaker and shattering blows are *** up now... need to be removed

streak sucks too

simeion

Galarthor wrote: »

1) Make Streak a viable Gap Opener / Escape - i.e. break root and snare. Also reduce or remove the penalty OR give a speed buff + sprint cost reduction. Also remove the self-stun from streak and make it fluid again.

2) Make Rune Cage viable again so sorcs are not forced to use Destructive Reach + Master staff. This would enable sorc to use Force Pulse again and solve the issue of loss-by-class-choice when fighting DKs with wings.

How to make Rune Cage viable again:
i) Make it undodgable again
ii) Add a strong secondary effect, similar to the root from Fossilize and the snare + minor maim from Fear

3) Either reduce the cost of the skills directly or increase the cost reduction / regen bonus through passives

4) Give Sorcs some more Buff / Debuffs of the Minor-Major-Buff-Debuff system.

5) Convert the Dark Deal into some sort of Heal that befits the sorcs play style of using shields. Make it smiliar to how it restores Stamina. Restore X amount of Health immediately and Y amount over T seconds. The X allows the sorc to get out of execute range, while the Y heals the sorc up over time underneath the shield. And make it an instant cast. Possibly add a secondary effect that restores M amount of magicka over T seconds to help with the sustain issues - the latter depends on the solution found for class-wide sustain issue.

This would sorcs finally allow to get away from resto staves, while at the same time not competing with the burst heal of Templars or the Pets.

The Sorc would also remain vulnerable for quite some time, but would not remain in execute range indefinitely as they currently do since the nerf of Healing Ward.

6) Remove the stupid "Minimum Traveling Time" for Fragments ... we don't get a minimum traveling time to dodge any other attacks either. This was just another unnecessary buff to stamblades.

I like some of this direction. I have issues with some of it.

1. Put snare removal and 2 second immunity on lightening form. This and return the speed buff to 6 seconds. This allows the sorcs to attempt to stay ranged. I agree with the self stun-remove it.

2. I like rune cage in its current form. It is week against stam classes and strong against mag classes that dont have stam to consistently dodge roll. If i would change it give it a risk rewards function. make it undodgable within 7 meter.

3. I am not a fan of passive in class line giving skill cost reduction. If it is in the class line why not make the ability cost that and give a better passive.

4. Need more info from you to respond.

5. I like the idea of giving sorcs a heal or single baring the pet , only at the cost of allowing shields to be effected by defile. Instant casting an ability for and 8k shield then getting a huge heal from a source needs counter play. Maybe give minor mending to sorcs for 10 seconds during and after dark deal.

6. There are abilities other frag that are effected by this. I am torn by this change. I like it because close range abilities like this were hard to counter when close. But was to easy to dodge at range.

My suggestions:

Make hard casted frags unreflectable. Then there is a counter to wings for a sorc and the DK can counter the hard hitting frag, by interrupting.

Change either wrath or fury to a spamable so sorcs choose to between an execute or a spamable.

Make make the bounless armor 8% stam and magic a passive for having and deadric skill slotted. Scales off max stat so you either get stam or magic not both.

Would make pets single bar long as defile effects shields.

Make crystal blast a stam morph and add a instant cast to base. Remove the aoe off blast since it is converting to stam.

Rework unholy knowledge passive: To set a target off balance for being effected by a Dark Magic skills. Add the cost reduction to all sorc skills.

Make 1 overload morph a stam version.

I am not a fan of implosion....love it in PvE...to strong in PvP. 7K free damage is sort of silly it is like dealing with proc sets. I have not thought of a replacement passive.

Turn almost all damage into lighting/shock if it is not physical.

Negate i would change to be negate all healing or damage depending on the morph. But i am also happy how negate is now.

Priyasekarssk

templesus wrote: »

I wouldn’t. It’s in a good spot as is for PvP, it doesn’t need any buffs. I’d just nerf nightblade so MagSorc is competitive in PvE.

I would however revert the healing ward change, but that’s not a Sorc buff that’s a general buff.

Please come 1v1 with your op mage sorc. Win atleast 1 fight in 100 fights in PVP. You always come to amuse and make others laugh.

Priyasekarssk

Minalan wrote: »

Sustain: rework sorc passives for better magicka sustain bonus. Nightblade get ten percent max magicka FFS, at least let sorcs Regen.

Streak: reduce the cost increase penalty or reduce the stacking penalty duration to two or three seconds. Remove the delay between successive streak casts.

Rune cage: this skill does damage again when broken, but still dodgeable. You can counter it easy, but if you neglect to dodge it will hurt.

Crystal frags: remove the minimum travel time, it's already dodgeable, blockable, and reflectable. Being in short range to a melee class or DK is already a risk great enough to warrant a shorter travel time.

Overload: either make the targeting less clunky and speed up the projectile. The current damage level does not justify it being this slow and difficult to strike with.

Shields: change to 60 percent of health for hardened ward, 50 percent for harness. I don't think the cap is a horrible idea now that armor applies to shields, we just need to adjust the percentages.

Bastion: rework this passive, it doesn't do anything with the hard cap. It needs to work exactly the opposite of shattering blows: reduce damage taken by damage shields to counter that CP. You currently have a shield destroying CP with no counter.

Shield breaker: the game has moved on, the original purpose of this set has gone away. You can crit shields and they're capped. Remove this set or repurpose it to increase damage on shields by 20 percent or something.

I dont think its viable again in PVP neither PVE. Its only fill support in zerg group. We can discuss all day . ZOs is going to implement nothing you have mentioned.

biggda76

Delete. Sorc op

Feanor

Minalan wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

right now in PvP sorcerers are overpowered.
they do not need buffed.

If you could make one change to ESO, buff snipe or nerf sorc again, which would it be?

Your fans are dying to know...

It would be “nerf Sorc”. He doesn’t care about Snipe as much. The more juicy question would be: “buff stealth” or “nerf Sorc”, because that is what he wants to play: an overpowered, invincible stealth character.

As for the thread, I appreciate @Tasear initiative to ignite the discussion. I fear though that this thread will share the same fate as the many threads in the past who really had good ideas for a class overhaul.

If it comes in 2019 I’m not sure what to expect - the revealed race passive changes don’t make me hopeful that ZOS has changed their M.O., it’s always a bunch of nerfs and little to compensate.

mocap

one-bar pets

f047ys3v3n

I don't think sorcs are in a particularly bad place (other than mag in PVP, and that is all mag in PVP) but here are some thoughts.

The biggest problem I have is the buggy targeting that prevents slow "instant cast" skills like frags and curse from activating at all if your target is eclipsed by anything, even another viable target or dead body, during the supposedly "instant" cast time. It kills my dps and wrecks my rotation when my skills don't fire despite the enemy being in the middle of my cross hairs. This is a general broken game *** design problem but effects sorcs more than others.

As for the rest, pets are not powerful enough to justify 2 bar slots but you nerfed them when they were so........

Sustain is a problem but I can't sustain on any toon. The Wobbler sure made sure of that. I still hate it by the way.

Shields suck now, I hate having to still use them despite that because I feel ripped off in terms of mag cost / benefit gained, and the nerf was worst for sorcs.

I think all classes major expedition skill should drop snares or nobody should be able to drop them. Right now stam toons dropping them with forward momentum but mag toons not being able to do so effectively (purge has huge cost and mist requires vampirism and takes you out of the fight) is garbage. This skill would be boundless on the sorc.

Ratzkifal

At this point I think I'd like to see a full rework of the class rather than changes. But please without dedicating and entire skill line to a role. It's much better if every skill line can stand on its own, has synergies with the other two and can be morphed to fit roles. An example for what that could look like would be a shield skill meant for magicka builds that has a morph which passively reduces block cost and has the shield based on your max health rather than magicka.
If mag DK is the Pyromancer, Necro the Necromancer (duh), Templar the holy magic caster, Warden the Druid/Frost caster and NB the Illusionist/stealth mage then Sorc must be the Arcane Mage that bends magic in its purest form with lightning sprinkled on top for more raw destructive power. The sub-archetypes it should fill are the battlemage and spellblade as tougher/tanky and melee stamina versions respectively.
Spells that fit these themes are bound armor (only as a morph), curse (only theme, not function) , Overload if it looked more like "a big deal", streak with its unique stun (but less clunky) and mage's wrath once you get to execute. Negate - although it fits the theme it is not all that spectacular. Especially when compared to other ults. Even Nova looks threatening if you don't know that it deals zero damage but despite how Negate looks and performs, it's just doesn't look or feel great to use.
Crystalfrags feels/felt good to use but thematically it could get more in line fantasy-wise.

---

Should a full rework be out of question I would try to marry armor and ward to be two sides of the same coin and make room for a class spammable.

Thraben

A class change to Necromancer would be a good buff for my Magsorc.

I´ve lost any trust in ZOS´ willingness to support our class. It´s been 5 months now, and even the most urgent changes (i.e. creating bar space by converting some skills into Passives, or by making the Pets work like the Nightblade´s shade) seem to suffer the same fate Spellcrafting did.

My StamSorc is still waiting for his promised Air Atro, by the way.

Tasear

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Buff overload light attacks to result in higher single target damage over a long fight than Meteor, Destro, or Atronach. Allow ulti regen while using overload. Then overload could be used as a sustain tool without a significant damage loss.

Other options for sustain (probably don’t need to do all of these, but a couple would be nice) are:
- Free Crystal Frags proc
- Remove cast time from Dark Exchange (most or all resource return would have to be delayed to prevent spamming)
- Add 20% Magicka recovery to Daedric Protection passive
- Reduce cost on Lightning Flood since it must be recast more often than Liquid Lightning
- Increase off-balance uptime allowed on PvE bosses from 25% to 50% to encourage use of lightning wall and make heavy attacks hit harder and restore more resources
- Increase Mag and Stam cost reduction from Unholy Knowledge passive from 5% to maybe 7 or 8%

Buff shields, especially sorcerer shields. They should be stronger than light armor shields. If we must keep a health % cap, I would recommend 50% Harness, 60% Dampen (5 Light), 64% Dampen (7 Light), 60% Empowered, 75% Hardened.

Give Perfected Asylum destro a 1 pc bonus. This unique weapon is best utilized by Sorcerers, but is currently outclassed by using multiple 5-piece sets (since Summerset). Spell damage would be best since Sorcs have a good multiplier on it, but Magicka regen could also be nice to sustain a force pulse or crushing shock rotation. I would not want Spell Pen on this weapon (like Blackrose Destro) since that just leads to underpenetration on back bar or overpenetration on front bar.

That overload thing sounds nice. I don't see any sorc DPS using it in game last. Do you guys?

Feanor

Tasear wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Buff overload light attacks to result in higher single target damage over a long fight than Meteor, Destro, or Atronach. Allow ulti regen while using overload. Then overload could be used as a sustain tool without a significant damage loss.

Other options for sustain (probably don’t need to do all of these, but a couple would be nice) are:
- Free Crystal Frags proc
- Remove cast time from Dark Exchange (most or all resource return would have to be delayed to prevent spamming)
- Add 20% Magicka recovery to Daedric Protection passive
- Reduce cost on Lightning Flood since it must be recast more often than Liquid Lightning
- Increase off-balance uptime allowed on PvE bosses from 25% to 50% to encourage use of lightning wall and make heavy attacks hit harder and restore more resources
- Increase Mag and Stam cost reduction from Unholy Knowledge passive from 5% to maybe 7 or 8%

Buff shields, especially sorcerer shields. They should be stronger than light armor shields. If we must keep a health % cap, I would recommend 50% Harness, 60% Dampen (5 Light), 64% Dampen (7 Light), 60% Empowered, 75% Hardened.

Give Perfected Asylum destro a 1 pc bonus. This unique weapon is best utilized by Sorcerers, but is currently outclassed by using multiple 5-piece sets (since Summerset). Spell damage would be best since Sorcs have a good multiplier on it, but Magicka regen could also be nice to sustain a force pulse or crushing shock rotation. I would not want Spell Pen on this weapon (like Blackrose Destro) since that just leads to underpenetration on back bar or overpenetration on front bar.

That overload thing sounds nice. I don't see any sorc DPS using it in game last. Do you guys?

Overload was excellent when stored ultimate was 1000 and before the damage nerfs. I understand the Surge nerf was needed when Overload was like that (because with Overload crits proccing a non-flat value of Surge you practically couldn't die), but a lot has changed since. After the loss of the 3rd bar there is no appeal to use Overload other than PvP ganking at best.

Narvuntien

Sorcs need better magicka regen, as a sorc healer I no longer have bar space for dark conversion the main sustain tool for sorcs.

Now I can still heavy attack and that's big for pet sorcs but its weak damage wise and only overload to buff it's damage.

Secondly there are a lot more synergy sets for fire damage than there are for lightning damage so I really want Shocking Spellweave to exist.

Galarthor

Minalan wrote: »

Rune cage: this skill does damage again when broken, but still dodgeable. You can counter it easy, but if you neglect to dodge it will hurt.

That won't work, b/c the biggest problem remains the perma-dodgers, which your proposed change will not address.

For any build that is not perma-block or perma-dodging Flame Reach will still be the better choice as it frees up a bar slot and has the same effect as Rune Cage.

So that leave perma-blockers and perma dodgers. Both of which are stamina based, and both of which will be completely immune to your Rune Cage. Perma-dodgers for obvious reasons as the Rune Cage is dodgable and will thus never land. And Perma-blockers b/c they will simply dodge the Rune Cage, and even if they get struck by the stun are in 99.9% of the case tanky enough to easily survive your entire burst combo. Besides, they might be worn down over time as you at least hit them with your attacks - unlike the perma-dodgers.

Therefore, Rune Cage will only ever be a viable alternative to Reach if it allows sorc to deal with perma-dodgers that dodge 90% of sorc DPS and easily outheal the remaining 10%. In any other scenario there is no reason to sacrifice a bar slot for a skill that does less than the flame reach!

Rune Cage needs to be undodgable for it to be viable!

And with tthat 1.2 second delay it got, it's quite easy to counter as well. Tbh, after a week or two most people didn't even die to the sorc burst combo in the Summerset patch, as the total burst < total HP after mitigation. So with the delay people get the chance to prepare for the burst.

grannas211

Overload: Either give the third bar back or even better, delete it and give Sorc and actual useful ultimate.

Mintaka5

• Lower all cast times above 1 second, to a second (but primarily for magicka builds only).
• Bring shields back to pre-Murkmire status.
• Defensive Rune needs to stun longer.
• Lessen how long it takes for crystal frags to travel, or remove its cast time.
• Increase all perks under light armor passives stronger

All around the magsorc is a slow, clunky, and light armor builds are too squishy. My main issue is how much front-end time is stolen from magsorcs. You do not see this time stealing in other class, and neither in stamsorcs. The back-end is fine, but with the enormous amounts of damage done in PvP in such short amounts of time (meta builds with max DPS execute rotations), magsorc skills generally are too slow to compensate for this.

Crixus8000

Many good changes have been suggested but here are my main things I would like to change from a stam pvp perspective.

One of the atronach morphs should be stam. We have 0 ults and many need to slot that useless ult just for the sustain from daedric protection passive, it would be nice if we could at least have the ult be useful.

Dadric protection passive not needing a slotted skill. Bar space is bad, it's worse since overload nerf, and needing to slot a skill on both bars to just get the passive is annoying, especially since stamsorc can only use either bound armaments or atro to get it...

Bolt escape needs changing, it's terrible. Stamsorc lacks survivability since speed was gutted. This skill is meant to be our escape yet it's so costly, it takes way too long to activate, it slows you down so much if you go up or down terrain and if you go up terrain it only moves you 1 inch. It should be instant cast and move over terrain better so it doesn't slow you down, it should also make you dodge current incoming attacks when cast because stamsorc is so squishy that moving forward isn't going to help much when you have a few 10k snipes coming your way, and it often makes the skill seem pointless when you streak away then die to multiple ranged attacks, why use it if just blocking or rolling would always be a better choice.

And we need more usable passives and skills. Stamsorc can't use many of it's class passives unlike every other class in the game and we lack skills, only having 4 usable class skills and that's unlcuding bolt escape, and our only class damage skill is hurricane, but that also requires us to be basically facetanking our enemies and stamsorc isn't tanky, it's more of a hit and run type class, or supposed to be at least.

DoobZ69

As a tank who mostly uses melee, as someone who plays from Australia and has bad ping, as someone who had his 4 year old main Sorc mangled by Nerfmire, the first thing I would do is remove the 2 meter melee reach advantage from the DK class. No other class has as much of a suitability for my play style, so it either gets taken away from the DK (to allow for other classes to again be a possibility) or the Sorc gets the same passive (to allow the Sorc to be considered).
The next step would be a fix for Dark Deal to bring the tanking tools in line with the basic needs. The 1 second cast gets me killed more than anything else.
The next step is giving a Sorc tank a unique group/trial wide benefit that they can bring along the lines of Engulfing Flames
The next step is revisiting the woeful lack of skills space that Sorc experience, especially when forced to double slot pets, etc.
The next step is passives and skills. Revamp and make sure they synergize correctly as they are all over the place in the current build.

And theeeeeeeen the balancing can begin...

dogman

hire wrobel back

Schattenfluegel

I would buff the Regpassiva or the Costreducepassiva on the Sorc....

Or, change Dark Deal to a Skill without Casttime.

Its for PvE

colossalvoids

Dark deal cast time decrease, to 1s (edit: sacrificing some health restored?).
To make blood magic viable for stamina characters crystal frag's other morph should be changed into stamina ability with almost the same proc conditions (some fracture maybe?).
It may be too much, but bound armor both morphs need a more viable effect, more like softer version of purge for mag and forward momentum like snare and immobilization removal tool on stamina, maybe even minor endurance/intellect buff to 6 closest allies.
Rebate passive change to mag or stam return, depending on a res pool and with it making one atro an Air one with physical damage output.
Also lightning flood can be made into some tornado like aoe dot ability.
Capacitor passive can get 10% stam recovery to it, maybe depending on pools.

Those are the firts to think about for me personally.

vesselwiththepestle

Add some Major Fracture and at least two more stamina morphs of skills, maybe even a stamina pet. Stamina Atro would be true love.

Kova

I feel like the thing that hurts sorcs are the same things that hurt most magicka casters. Setting up damage takes so long.

Only one skill provides instant damage and it's an execute that has the highest execute requirement in the whole game, otherwise it just tickles people. That means our entire damage output, not just burst, relies on this 4 second window in which our opponent can just:

Flap flap dk wings
shimmering shield warden
stealth out
roll dodge
block completely
Fossilize/stun us
immobilize us
SILENCE us with negate or templar bubble
incap strike burst
Dawnbreaker Death Combo
heal to full health

Making the whole setup completely defunct, so try again in another 4 seconds. Don't forget you're also getting your only defense, shields, completely blown off by:

Poisons
decrease health glyphs
sloads
shieldbreaker
bleeding

And of course shields are affected by resists and debuffs now so incap, etc means you're throwing up paper walls.

Honestly, it's no surprise you find so many pet sorcs these days. Twilight is the only reliable heal since healing ward:

's Cast heal was nerfed
is affected by resists (see paper wall)
is casted on OTHER PLAYERS even IF you have lower health
Takes 4 seconds to do absolutely anything, so hopefully your enemy allows you to keep it up (see 4 second window above.)

But honestly, what could really be the first small step in buffing Sorc:






Maybe just give us SOMETHING, please.

SaintSubwayy

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Sustain buff for nonpet sorcs and one-bar pets.

already happening with altmer changes

but sorc might need some more sustain love thats true