is Redguard Necromancer the most lorebreaking thing ZOS has ever introduced?

feyii

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

While I don't think it's lorebreaking I also found it strange that they specifically decided to use a Redguard for the showcase. Most other races, save Dark Elves maybe, would have been less controversial.

OrdoHermetica

feyii wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

While I don't think it's lorebreaking I also found it strange that they specifically decided to use a Redguard for the showcase. Most other races, save Dark Elves maybe, would have been less controversial.

Given that the Redguard in question is wearing full Daedric-looking armor, I think controversy was the point - in-game controversy, that is. This is clearly not an upstanding member of Redguard society. It's a contrast thing.

bearbelly

IronWooshu wrote: »

...at least to my knowledge.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

There is literally a Redguard Necromancer in every Elder Scrolls game.

Ackadian

It's not lore breaking lol... The main antagonists in Alik'r are redguard necromancers... Just because we will be able to play as one doesn't mean our characters will have to be "good". Like Rich said... The world is going to react to anyone playing necromancers and give them a harder time than others.

IronWooshu

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Again the Withered Hand was created by ZOS not Bethesda and were never mentioned in any Redguard lore before ZOS began ESO, at least to my knowledge.

Putting aside the fact that, as other others have mentioned, ZOS works with the Bethesda lore team directly and everything in ESO is canon: there were Redguard necromancers all the way back in TESII. Also, cultural taboos ≠ an inability to do something. Yes, most Redguards distrust most magic (though that hasn't always been the case), but that certainly doesn't mean that outcasts of that society CAN'T do magic. In fact, the whole "hatred of magic, especially necromancy" specifically came about BECAUSE Redguards have abused magic in the past: Yokuda was destroyed by Hiradirge stone magic, for example.

So, yeah, Redguards can absolutely practice magic, and even necromancy. It turns out that people who are willing to summon corpses from the ground and defile the souls of the dead in the pursuit of personal power don't much care about social or cultural taboos. Shocking, I know.

It was the Elves who used magic on Yokuda, the only magics used was from the Sword Singers who could conjure magical swords. The sinking of Yokuda is not fully known what happened.

spartaxoxo

The races all have general customs and cultures, but they are compromised of individuals who are more or less engaged in their culture. It isn't physically impossible for a Redguard to be a necromancer, or for one to be interested in it, it is merely illegal.

Varana

Elder Scrolls games have always been very ... lenient with their heroes.

In Morrowind, you could become head of the Imperial Cult and the Tribunal Temple at the same time, plus House Telvanni, and the re-incarnation of an ancient Dunmer hero - as an Argonian.

Redguard necromancers are basically hard-core lore nerds, compared to that.

Sanctuary_Reaper

I swear they said the necromancer in the trailer was a breton

OrdoHermetica

IronWooshu wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Again the Withered Hand was created by ZOS not Bethesda and were never mentioned in any Redguard lore before ZOS began ESO, at least to my knowledge.

Putting aside the fact that, as other others have mentioned, ZOS works with the Bethesda lore team directly and everything in ESO is canon: there were Redguard necromancers all the way back in TESII. Also, cultural taboos ≠ an inability to do something. Yes, most Redguards distrust most magic (though that hasn't always been the case), but that certainly doesn't mean that outcasts of that society CAN'T do magic. In fact, the whole "hatred of magic, especially necromancy" specifically came about BECAUSE Redguards have abused magic in the past: Yokuda was destroyed by Hiradirge stone magic, for example.

So, yeah, Redguards can absolutely practice magic, and even necromancy. It turns out that people who are willing to summon corpses from the ground and defile the souls of the dead in the pursuit of personal power don't much care about social or cultural taboos. Shocking, I know.

It was the Elves who used magic on Yokuda, the only magics used was from the Sword Singers who could conjure magical swords. The sinking of Yokuda is not fully known what happened.

No. No, it was not the elves. Not by any description of what happened. It was absolutely the Yokudans... possibly while killing all the elves.

Seriously, there's a whole bunch of lore on it. Read up on it on UESP if you don't believe me.

(But also, that really wasn't my point, and the rest of it is far more relevant.)

spartaxoxo

BretonicKnight wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought the OP brought up Redguard Necromancers because Necromancy is one of the highest crimes and greatest taboos in Redguard culture and the protagonist is their hero. Redguards have literally dethroned Kings and turned their backs on greater heroes for Necromancy. It's not that Redguard Necromancers DON'T EXIST as everyone spamming the illegal Withered Hand cultists that the entire loyal Redguard faction fights against would suggest. It's that there's really no way for a Redguard Necromancer to fit the lore as the vestige / hero of Alik'r.

This does make more sense. You are right about that. Hopefully they surprise us and have the npcs treat as you as Ashabah in that area, but I doubt it.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

IronWooshu wrote: »

I think it's lore breaking for a Redguard to be a Necromancer and hero.

Deal with it.

Well, you're not on staff at either Bethesda or ZOS.

They've decided that ESO is canon. ESO contains quests involving the Withered Hand, lead by Suturah and his children, all of them Redguards and all of them necromancers.

Therefore, Redguard necromancers are canon. Deal with it.

miteba

Whatever happens in ESO becomes lore and we all gain with it!
They already stated that more than once.
Zenimax works with Bethesda always lore wise.
Always so much fuss with it... People want the game to stagnate, is that it?

josiahva

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

Now I have to make one just because.

People are always going on about lore as if it actually matters. I have a news flash for you: Video game writing is BAD, its ALWAYS bad with the exception of a few standout games like the Witcher...and that is mainly because the Witcher was based on books by a decent writer. The reason video game stories are so bad is because there is no writer behind them, just some half-baked story written by 20 different people not at all well thought out.

myskyrim26

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

Nords are said to despise all daedra-related things. Yet there are Nord cultists, a lot of them seen in EP quests.
Altmer absolutely despise all daedra-related things! Yet we have AD story.
Every race consists of thousands of individuals. Some of them are not like the others. So we have Nords cultists, Altmer violating the vital rules of their peope, and Redguard necromancers.

SilverIce58

So what if you think a redguard necromancer can't be a hero? Let them prove themselves. Not all necromancers are evil, not all redguards hate magic, and not all heroes make good choices (like say, killing Parthunaax), but you should always give them a chance. And besides, while the vestige, to you, can't be a redguard necromancer, to someone else it can be.

The vestige is literally everyone and has done every choice in the game. Good or bad.

kathandira

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

Is a criminal in a land of law lore breaking?

People can be outlaws, or outcasts.

Rake

yes

Gohavoc

khajiit werewolf

TheTwistedRune

Of course Redguards can be Necromancers, just second rate ones.

Cyhawk

No. Strict classes was the most lore breaking thing ZOS has ever done.

This is the first Elder Scrolls game where you're completely unable to do X if you're class Y. Even Arena wasnt this strict.

Nord_Raseri

IronWooshu wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Withered Hand Cultists, dude.

With a comment like that...
Argonians shouldn't have Lukiul and should all be racist.
Dunmer should all be slavers.
Altmer should all be genocidal xenophobes.
Etc.

I don't think you're doing it right.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Every race despises necromancy.

True but Redguards despise most magics, especially western magic while allowing some Eastern magic to be practiced like Restoration.

Redguards also vary from person to person. Again, Withered Hand cultists who are REDGUARD NECROMANCERS.

Again the Withered Hand was created by ZOS not Bethesda and were never mentioned in any Redguard lore before ZOS began ESO, at least to my knowledge.

What ... ESO is part of the lore and part of the Canon that contributes to all the Elder Scroll games.

Not sure if trolling or just misguided in general.

So you're saying ZOS has no governing rules? Whatever they make regardless is law and now LORE? I mean they could spawn another dragon break and bring forth another Dovakin, right?

Tiber Septim is supposed to appear in a few hundred years, so thats covered.

about 200 years away Tiber Septim will take back the Imperial Throne and Cyrodil

take back the throne? you realize he's not even imperial, right? his name was Hjalti Early-Beard. a nord. from Atmora. wait, did the nords at some point gain the imperial throne and lose it before Hjalti became General Talos?

jlmurra2

I will be making a Redguard necromancer. He, or she, (I haven't yet decided), will be allied with the Pact.

Jitterbug

I want one

DMuehlhausen

IronWooshu wrote: »

The main necromancer showcased on the website is a Redguard Necromancer, the same race that absolutely despises Necromancy.

If you think about it it's the Race that makes the most sense.

In any culture/race people that don't respect the dead are normally considered pretty bad. What better way to introduce the Necromancer class than to have it done by a race that but normal standards hates them the most.

SilverIce58

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Withered Hand Cultists, dude.

With a comment like that...
Argonians shouldn't have Lukiul and should all be racist.
Dunmer should all be slavers.
Altmer should all be genocidal xenophobes.
Etc.

I don't think you're doing it right.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Every race despises necromancy.

True but Redguards despise most magics, especially western magic while allowing some Eastern magic to be practiced like Restoration.

Redguards also vary from person to person. Again, Withered Hand cultists who are REDGUARD NECROMANCERS.

Again the Withered Hand was created by ZOS not Bethesda and were never mentioned in any Redguard lore before ZOS began ESO, at least to my knowledge.

What ... ESO is part of the lore and part of the Canon that contributes to all the Elder Scroll games.

Not sure if trolling or just misguided in general.

So you're saying ZOS has no governing rules? Whatever they make regardless is law and now LORE? I mean they could spawn another dragon break and bring forth another Dovakin, right?

Tiber Septim is supposed to appear in a few hundred years, so thats covered.

about 200 years away Tiber Septim will take back the Imperial Throne and Cyrodil

take back the throne? you realize he's not even imperial, right? his name was Hjalti Early-Beard. a nord. from Atmora. wait, did the nords at some point gain the imperial throne and lose it before Hjalti became General Talos?

He's not a Nord, he's an Atmoran (in some versions of the story). There's a difference. Also, you must know that his names are Talos, Hjalti, Ysmir, and Tiber, from his lore page: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim

Unit117

Isn’t the girl from the fang lair dungeon a redguard necromancer?

yodased

outliers in every society exist. Just because your people's rules forbid necromancy doesn't mean you will follow those rules.

Elsterchen

MamaDruid wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Are all Khajiits thieves? Are all altmers racist ****s? Are all nords naked drunkards? Are all bosmer respectful of the Green Pact? Are all orcs either warriors or blacksmiths?

This. 1,000%.

There is intention in choosing a Redguard for that image. It was great to see in today's stream the important role lore has in their development choices.

I agree 100%.

On the other hand, I wish a simple lore-friendly redguard follower of akatosh would be something possible to be played without beeing penalized or keep out of many quest (including main quest!) too. Atm its NOT possible to play a simple lore-friendly average character without missing out on the game.

I welcome diversity and options, but I feel priorization of goals is not well done.

Cardthief

As others have stated above, it matters not about their culture, it matters to the individual. Not all Redguards follow Redguard beliefs and customs, same goes for every other race. They don't have to even be born in or grow up in their native homeland, you can have a Redguard that was born and raised in Morrowind, or Cyrodiil, or anywhere else for that matter.

All in all its best to not judge a character based on their race, its all based on who they are as individuals.

LightMaster7

LOL Redguard necromancer? What are they based on stamina then cause if they are based on magicka that is a total JOKE with absolutely *** added for Redguard in terms of magicka passives.