The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Facefister wrote: »
You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.
My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!
What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?
You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.
You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.
Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...
CP didn't always exist. And the game was imbalanced before it.
People are still going to want some form of vertical progression to separate a character that's 4+ years old vs a freshly created character. You want your main to feel legendary.
But the gutting of classes and the feeling of homogenization didn't occur (at least for me) until the CP system had done it's damage, which was an obvious problem before it was a problem. Even I, as a new player in this game and this being my first mmo, could see the flaws in the cp system and that it would need to be changed/overhauled. Even ZoS seen this, that's why the cp system itself has already been gutted... how did that work for your vertical progression? Do you think that if it stays the way it is now that we won't have to have the cp system nerfed into oblivion again? It's either that or the class skills that make your class feel different than others, but most likely both if we go off the history of the game.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.
The problem with the CP system wasn't so much the power creep, BUT was the fact that ZOS didn't reinstitute soft caps on all our stats to compensate for that power creep and force us to make decisions on where to spend those points.
What's the point for any one at cap, to bother buying the new chapter or to continue playing? There isn't any. Nothing but wasted XP that could have gone to something.
CP's with their power creep, would actually help people like me, who are disabled and have to use certain non-Xbox controllers because they are smaller in order to play on PC, to increase and be able to do harder content and continue to improve, despite not being able to animation cancel reliably or hold a perfect rotation.
So now, no improvement, despite hours and hours of playing and events, and what not. So then, what's the point?? If I can't improve either through raised stats so I can do more end game content, then there is no reason for me to bother buying the new content, or to pay for a sub, or really even to log on daily.
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
This is a bad decision. Very bad decision. The only way you are going to FIX CP's is to bring back SOFT CAPS!!! Yep, there are going to be a lot of end game and pvp players that aren't going to like that. BUT it is the only way you are going to be able to lower that ceiling you kept talking about earlier without obliterating he middle ground (like you've been doing), while also raising the floor.
These changes are NOT hurting your end game elite players. These changes are not hurting your lowest floor players. They are hurting your mid-ranged players who find normal dungeons and trials too easy, but some Vet Trials and most Vet HM too hard to complete or even be considered to be allowed to participate in because they don't meet the magick number DPS.
If you don't want player pulling 50K DPS, then put a god damned SOFT CAP on it!!!!! There, problem solved.. It forces them to use their CP in another spot other than DPS.
STOP punishing everyone because a few people are complaining about the power creep!!!!
People want to complain that CP is making them too powerful in overland content... create an on/off toggle. Make CP a PVE thing only.... can't have it in Cyrodiil.
ZOS needs to stop looking at how END GAME elite players are doing in this game and making decisions around them. They need to pay more attention to what the middle ground players are doing, especially those who fall in the GAP of being left out of things when decisions like this are made.
We already have soft caps. Soft caps are diminishing returns. CP have (severe) diminishing returns. That hasn't solved anything.
No... dimishing returns don't work as well as soft caps on our actual stats.
Make is so that you can only get a MAX of 35k mag or stam, 4.5k max mag or stam dmg, 2k max recovery and hit overall damage with a max 45kDPS.
The only thing with a real soft cap in this game at the moment are resistances. Capped at 33.4k or something close to that.LiquidPony wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nerfed the hell out of CP with Morrowind?
Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nixed the VR system and switched to CP?
Didn't they steal our progression when they nerfed Sunderflame and NMG into the ground? I bet I spent 100+ hours farming Sunderflame daggers, and across my 2 accounts I bet I've got 5+ full sets of gold NMG and 20+ gold NMG weapons all collecting dust now.
Y'all are just afraid of change.
Yes, they have gutted our progression several times already..... and guess what, a hell of a lot of end game players quit. Many Raiding guilds imploded because they are sick and tired of having their progression fracked with.
Why do you think they are now running so many damn events? They know it's the only way to boost their numbers to get players back because they screwed up hard!
The players they hurt with those changes were not the players that needed to be brought in line to lower the ceiling. They actually ended up hurting the players who are in the middle who are on the cusp of being able to achieve harder content and needed the progression improvement. But instead, ZOS killed their progression outright and created an even wider gap between the Middle Tiered players by flattening them into the group while the Top Tier Ceiling level players pulled ever fuller forward.
It shows that ZOS has no concept of the consequences of their actual changes, and they need to STOP listening to just the ELITE end game Math players and listen to those in the middle most affected by these changes!!
@Nebthet78 perhaps you should look up the definition of "soft cap."
What you're talking about here are hard caps. Resistances are hard capped.
CP have soft caps. Soft-capping means making it so investing more points/stats/whatever into something has diminishing returns. That's what we have with CP.
And as far as "progression" and "non-elite-tier players" (or whatever) goes, let's be honest: if someone can't complete content with 810 CP, they aren't going to magically be able to complete it with 840 CP either. We're at the point where the 10 CP per tree added each patch is borderline useless.
I stand by it: people are just afraid of change. The people who ragequit with the CP changes in Morrowind were afraid of change, too. I know it: I played with a lot of them. I watched people I know quit and raid guilds I played in fall apart because "ermahgerd I just refuse to do a heavy attack every now and then in my rotation". But then again, I've watched people I know quit and raid guilds fall apart in virtually every single patch since I've been playing ESO. Guess what? New people start raiding, people take a few weeks off and come back, raid guilds reform or merge or new ones pop up, and here in 2019 there's still a healthy raid community in this game, from new progression groups to score-pushers.
And no one seems to have actually listened to what was said in the presentation, anyway. Progression of some sort will probably come back. They're freezing the CP cap for now, re-evaluating the CP system, and then they'll let us know what comes next. A few patches with no CP increase isn't going to hurt anyone in any meaningful way. Mountains out of molehills.Edited by LiquidPony on January 16, 2019 5:19PM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, go ahead and remove CP's. However, (ESPECIALLY in PvP) there has to be sweeping changes to gear, resource pools and sustain. Otherwise an enormous amount of builds suddenly become useless? Nah, I'm sorry. This is a very bad move imo.
I don't wanna hear about "well git good etc." That's not an acceptable retort when you've played CP campaigns since they came out. They will have to convert or do something different with all the points we've earned so far.
Just as an example. I have an Ice warden wearing Iceheart, Winterborn, and Torugs. He's fine in CP. But even then, the build isn't particularly ideal for resource pool and regen. Put him in no-cp? It pretty much can't be played. Not enough sustain, not enough resources, not enough resists. The build was based on certain proc's and CP's holding it up. Now I have other toons of course. I can change out a set or something to try and compete in no-cp. But again, some builds that people busted their tails for, become suddenly obsolete. NOT good, not by a long shot.
Another example. Just last night I was doing vMA. As a PvP'er I'm not happy about having to do this, but I'd like to get some of those weapons. Can you imagine vMA in it's current state withOUT using CP's? How about hard mode vet trails? Slowing down CP's is one thing, but when ya all talk about removing them from the game, your not seeing the big picture.
They're not removing CP... They are just capping it at 810 to rein in the ridiculous power creep. I only wish they had done it sooner as CP has already ruined a lot of content.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 5:11PM1 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Facefister wrote: »
You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.
My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!
What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?
You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.
You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.
Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...
It's not even a PvP issue. CP point's have ruined PvE too. They've trivialised the majority's of content which used to be fun and challenging
I would say it's not just a PvP issue. 100% agree with your view on it's affect on PvE, but it's definitely an issue in PvP too. I know people will say just play no cp PvP then but last I checked the no cp campaign on my server is completely empty. And yes there are battlegrounds for no cp but that scratches a different itch.Edited by Danksta on January 16, 2019 5:11PMBawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lack of character progression and forced main story group content are such negatives that they have completely overridden the man positives that I saw announced. I had just recently purchased a new 6 month sub but have now taken it off auto renew. I'll reevaluate in 4 months but if all of this comes to fruition then I'll just play some other games until the next TES drop. I have no desire to play a group action-adventure game whether set in the Elder Scrolls universe or not.
You are aware this is an MMO an not a single player?
Are you aware that this is/was a MMORPG?1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Facefister wrote: »
You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.
My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!
What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?
You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.
You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.
Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...
It's not even a PvP issue. CP point's have ruined PvE too. They've trivialised the majority's of content which used to be fun and challenging
I would say it's not just a PvP issue. 100% agree with your view on it's affect on PvE, but it's definitely an issue in PvP too. I know people will say just play no cp PvP then but last I checked the no cp campaign on my server is completely empty. And yes there are battlegrounds for no cp but that scratches a different itch.
Sorry I didn't mean it wasn't an issue in PvP (it's definitrly a huge issue there). I meant that comment as it wasn't only a PvP issue.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
Sorry but that sounds silly. By that logic devs should never change anything because players invested their time in that thing. CP system causes issues and makes balance of the game unhealthy so it deserves to be changed. How it'll be changed it's up to devs we can just judge after the change happen is it healthy or not for the game balance. Also to be fair I find removing CP system to not cause as much time waste as You say it'll be because it was never a system people were forced to follow and sacrifices other activities for it. It is just system rewarding You for playing the game kinda byproduct of doing anything but not something forcing You to do one certain thing over and over like many other things for example vMA weapons farm pre trait change. To be fair trait change option "screwed" some people who did hundereds of runs to get that sharpened flame staff more then removal of CP system could.Edited by Juhasow on January 16, 2019 6:07PM4 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is great for pvp and pve! adding more cp would but adding steriods to more steroids0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭The majority of balance issues has risen because of this CP system, I hope they nuke the entire thing and then focus on putting the power and uniqueness back into the classes. That being said, I wouldn't mind a perk system more akin to skyrim which would add actual meaningful variation in builds instead of just some dumb stat increase, which is what the CP system should have been to begin with.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭people worked hard for those points...i like not having to have a group of friends to solo things like IC world bosses...."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.5 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭shieeeet, now it is harder to kill bad player on cyrodiil if cp is removed
Actually its the opposite. Crutch Points pad a bad build and make it sustainable. Anyone can make a perma-heal bot or a near unkillable tank that can spam three skills. That nonsense doesn't fly as well in battlegrounds.2 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »An MMO with no form of progression is an MMO that will not hold my attention much longer. Simple as that. The game will truly feel like a chore to play rather than something to do out of enjoyment. This game is turning more and more into a virtual world social networking platform. People already sit idle in Craglorn, Cyrodiil, etc. just to socialize. Now there is less reason to actually play the game. GG!
What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points. Regrinding all the guild skills and passives on every new character and build I make.
I never get bored in this game. There is always some crazy build i'm thinking of that I want to make. The part that makes me want to quit is when there is a huge unnecessary grind wall between me and the outcome I want.
If I could easily just gear and level all my characters i'd have so many cool builds to play. People that need some silly point system to guide them seem to lack any imagination. Grinding up points is the thing you do before you get to have fun, not the fun in itself.
All my characters are fully geared, and fully leveled except the one I keep purposely below 50 for PvP.I don't care about some new "crazy build" when the truth is, there really is no build versatility in this game if you are truly passionate about end game; everyone uses the same thing, and everyone expects you to be running the same thing. CP, as minuscule as it is, is what has allowed me to experiment with my PvE characters in PvP with no build changes (because I could then dodge roll, block, break free, etc. more than 1½ times on my mag characters). I don't care how insignificant the CP actually was, and it was insignificant and therefor no real reason to just stop raising it now. We've gone beyond the point where this would have actually helped the game. They should have started to think about this way back around 600 CP, and started to revamp the CP system then or create a more intuitive progression system.
What they shouldn't have done, is finally realize what people have been telling them for years, stopping the only progression system in the game, and continue to sell new content with half assed in-game systems still in place while they "figure it out". I play games to progress. I don't play games to just do the same thing every day whilst running on a horizontal treadmill for no damn reason. This has been a game concept as far back as I can remember (early 80's)... It's 2019, and is still a widely used mechanic. People want progression. They want their time in game to mean something. They want to see their progression. ZoS dropped the ball, AGAIN, with the CP system, and here so many of you sit praising them for it. This is why the game is in such *** poor shape.3 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The fact that people are so mad at ZOS for not just doling out another 30 champ points proves people just want the appearance of progression even if its meaningless.1 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points.
If they are so meaningless, then why you are so adamant on praising ZoS for their decision to stop raising the cap. I mean, they're pointless, right? You're just here to argue for the sake of arguing, whilst many of us displeased with this choice have been voicing our opinion based on what we look for in a game, rather it be an MMO, or some other genre... a visible form of progression. No form of progression outside of the grind for new gear sets that get released WILL MAKE ME STOP PLAYING THIS GAME. 100%. GUARANTEED.Edited by Diminish on January 17, 2019 3:39AM3 -
jlb1705✭✭✭Schrödinger's CP: It can simultaneously be considered to be both insignificant to character power and the source of all power creep that is destroying the game.8
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phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does this only apply to the next update or is it ongoing? Do we need to be enlightened anymore?Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Does this only apply to the next update or is it ongoing? Do we need to be enlightened anymore?
They are putting a pause on it and "reevaluating" the system. Iirc, Rich used the words "for the foreseeable future". More enlightenment would be useful.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 17, 2019 4:00AM0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hope all you progression people saw ZOS's new post on Racial Changes;
They went and did exactly what I predicted they would do: They removed ALL max stat % Racial Passives and replaced them with static values.
@VanyelMohr @Diminish
Perhaps I'm being too flippant and hyperbolic in this thread. Here is a concrete example of why I say Vertical Progression is essentially a "Treadmill" or Meaningless
So lets say you have an endgame "progression" PvE magicka DPS character that is a breton or high elf with 35 -40K max magicka.
I will use one of Alcasts builds as an example because they are pretty uniform across the board for magicka. (Siroria/spell strat)
That build has about 39,600 magicka. Your breton or High elf had a 10% max magicka perk from racial passives.
Without this magicka perk (39600/1.1) you would have 36,000 magicka. That's a 4000 magicka loss. If you add ZOS's flat rate value back in, you will end up with 38,000 magicak. Your racial passive was nerfed in half. You lost 2000 magicka, which is about 200 spell damage.
This is what happens every time. ZOS buffs you with one hand, then nerfs you with the other. On a long enough timeline you don't progress because another sweeping nerf comes in and takes away the power you gained.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 17, 2019 7:32AM3 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I hope all you progression people saw ZOS's new post on Racial Changes;
They went and did exactly what I predicted they would do: They removed ALL max stat % Racial Passives and replaced them with static values.
@VanyelMohr @Diminish
Perhaps I'm being too flippant and hyperbolic in this thread. Here is a concrete example of why I say Vertical Progression is essentially a "Treadmill" or Meaningless
So lets say you have an endgame "progression" PvE magicka DPS character (breton or high elf) with 35 -40K max magicka.
I will use one of Alcasts builds as an example because they are pretty uniform across the board for magicka. (Siroria/spell strat)
That build has about 39,600 magicka. Your breton or High elf had a 10% max magicka perk from racial passives.
Without this magicka perk (39600/1.1) you would have 36,000 magicka. That's a 4000 magicka loss. If you add ZOS's flat rate value back in, you will end up with 38,000 magicak. Your racial passive was nerfed in half. You lost 2000 magicka, which is about 200 spell damage.
This is what happens every time. ZOS buffs you with one hand, then nerfs you with the other. On a long enough timeline you don't progress because another sweeping nerf comes in and takes away the power you gained.
Make cookie cutter builds. All have the same stats and abilities. No one can claim someone else's class race is broken. Everything is based on raw skill instead of progression. The only thing one has to differentiate themselves from one another is their costumes. Wonderful fun.
The treadmill you describe does not exist. I am not as weak at CP719 as I was at level 1. A game where there is no progression and you just repeat content ad nauseum is a treadmill.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Facefister wrote: »
You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.
My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!
What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?
You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.
You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.
Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...
It's not even a PvP issue. CP point's have ruined PvE too. They've trivialised the majority of content which used to be fun and challenging
The content your referring to, public dungeons, overland bosses, etc., got NERFED deliberately to cater to casuals. This has nothing to do with CP. "CP power creep" is a myth propagated by certain parties on the forums and elsewhere. My sustain is worse at 810 CP than it was at 510 CP! Where is the creep? All the real power creep comes from these stupid proc sets like Zaan that ZOS keeps adding to sell their lackluster DLC. That's what you should be complaining about!
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for a system that has introduced so much powercreep,.
Very little to possibly no powercreep over the past two years.
Even in the past two years the difference those 30 points per quarter have made is pretty small due to they extremely heavy diminishing returns.
The powercreep you speak of is real, but it comes from all the other changes Zos makes every quarter. We get all worked up about what they nerf and pretty much ignore what is buffed.3 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The majority of balance issues has risen because of this CP system, I hope they nuke the entire thing and then focus on putting the power and uniqueness back into the classes. That being said, I wouldn't mind a perk system more akin to skyrim which would add actual meaningful variation in builds instead of just some dumb stat increase, which is what the CP system should have been to begin with.
Except if they remove it you'll get lless variety, not more.
Want DPS? All points into stamina/mag.
Every class will run the same skills/sets, and about the only difference will be your snazzy outifit.
So not much difference to now really.
Edited by Mr_Walker on January 17, 2019 8:09AM1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I hope all you progression people saw ZOS's new post on Racial Changes;
They went and did exactly what I predicted they would do: They removed ALL max stat % Racial Passives and replaced them with static values.
@VanyelMohr @Diminish
Perhaps I'm being too flippant and hyperbolic in this thread. Here is a concrete example of why I say Vertical Progression is essentially a "Treadmill" or Meaningless
So lets say you have an endgame "progression" PvE magicka DPS character that is a breton or high elf with 35 -40K max magicka.
I will use one of Alcasts builds as an example because they are pretty uniform across the board for magicka. (Siroria/spell strat)
That build has about 39,600 magicka. Your breton or High elf had a 10% max magicka perk from racial passives.
Without this magicka perk (39600/1.1) you would have 36,000 magicka. That's a 4000 magicka loss. If you add ZOS's flat rate value back in, you will end up with 38,000 magicak. Your racial passive was nerfed in half. You lost 2000 magicka, which is about 200 spell damage.
This is what happens every time. ZOS buffs you with one hand, then nerfs you with the other. On a long enough timeline you don't progress because another sweeping nerf comes in and takes away the power you gained.
I'll point you to this post.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ill never understand why people think that vertical progression is meaningless, if we go with the same kind of thinking we could also say that horizontal progression is meaningless since at the end of the day if you want to build for end game you will use the best abilities you can use, and those may not be the ones that have been added, for example, in guild wars 2 for elementalist it's either go weaver or go home, or tempest in some cases, where is your horizontal progression now? When you only ever truly use 2 specs for dps?
Vertical progression is just as important as horizontal progression, if not more, people wanna be more and more powerful as the game goes on, the fact that zos cannot keep up with the increase in power because they don't wanna implement new systems to make up for the increase in power, is not a problem of vertical progression, it's just lazyness.
Power creep doesn't just appear out of the sky, if there is power creep it means that you didn't account for the increase in power, most probably because it takes effort to create new systems to make up for that.2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I hope all you progression people saw ZOS's new post on Racial Changes;
They went and did exactly what I predicted they would do: They removed ALL max stat % Racial Passives and replaced them with static values.
@VanyelMohr @Diminish
Perhaps I'm being too flippant and hyperbolic in this thread. Here is a concrete example of why I say Vertical Progression is essentially a "Treadmill" or Meaningless
So lets say you have an endgame "progression" PvE magicka DPS character (breton or high elf) with 35 -40K max magicka.
I will use one of Alcasts builds as an example because they are pretty uniform across the board for magicka. (Siroria/spell strat)
That build has about 39,600 magicka. Your breton or High elf had a 10% max magicka perk from racial passives.
Without this magicka perk (39600/1.1) you would have 36,000 magicka. That's a 4000 magicka loss. If you add ZOS's flat rate value back in, you will end up with 38,000 magicak. Your racial passive was nerfed in half. You lost 2000 magicka, which is about 200 spell damage.
This is what happens every time. ZOS buffs you with one hand, then nerfs you with the other. On a long enough timeline you don't progress because another sweeping nerf comes in and takes away the power you gained.
Make cookie cutter builds. All have the same stats and abilities. No one can claim someone else's class race is broken. Everything is based on raw skill instead of progression. The only thing one has to differentiate themselves from one another is their costumes. Wonderful fun.
The treadmill you describe does not exist. I am not as weak at CP719 as I was at level 1. A game where there is no progression and you just repeat content ad nauseum is a treadmill.
I think he was talking about the fact that they nerf classes and other aspect to account for cp, that is true, but i don;t agree with the fact that cp should be removed or nerfed because of it.
Afterall, what is the point, it's still nerfing at the end of the day whether you nerf cp or skills.
I already stated my opinion on this at least 2 times on this thread, but we also gotta look at things objectively, and your argument seem like a misrepresentation of his, or her.Edited by JinMori on January 17, 2019 2:28PM1 -
xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos giveth and Zos taketh away
Edited by xxthir13enxx on January 17, 2019 3:10PM1
