The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really enjoying the whole sideways/forward semantics of this thread.2013
rip decibel1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really enjoying the whole sideways/forward semantics of this thread.
its pretty entertaining. Doesn't take much effort to push an analogy to its breaking point. But lets continue...
If you are on a treadmill, going forward will never get you anywhere. You have to step sideways first. Bam. Ball's in your court progression fetishists.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 16, 2019 2:09AM5 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Really enjoying the whole sideways/forward semantics of this thread.
its pretty entertaining. Doesn't take much effort to push an analogy to its breaking point. But lets continue...
If you are on a treadmill, going forward will never get you anywhere. You have to step sideways first. Bam. Ball's in your court progression fetishists.
Pretty obvious logic is not taught anymore, on a treadmill you are not going forward. Explain to me how you move forward on a treadmill, last I ran on one I stayed in the same place.
5 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Really enjoying the whole sideways/forward semantics of this thread.
its pretty entertaining. Doesn't take much effort to push an analogy to its breaking point. But lets continue...
If you are on a treadmill, going forward will never get you anywhere. You have to step sideways first. Bam. Ball's in your court progression fetishists.
Pretty obvious logic is not taught anymore, on a treadmill you are not going forward. Explain to me how you move forward on a treadmill, last I ran on one I stayed in the same place.
Astute observation. Could you also explain to all these progression fetishists that love the existing crapeon system that their characters aren't really getting any stronger because ZOS nerfs class skills and buffs endgame content to compensate?
Vertical Progression isn't.3 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Really enjoying the whole sideways/forward semantics of this thread.
its pretty entertaining. Doesn't take much effort to push an analogy to its breaking point. But lets continue...
If you are on a treadmill, going forward will never get you anywhere. You have to step sideways first. Bam. Ball's in your court progression fetishists.
Pretty obvious logic is not taught anymore, on a treadmill you are not going forward. Explain to me how you move forward on a treadmill, last I ran on one I stayed in the same place.
I find if I run slightly faster than the treadmill I do in fact move forward ever so slowly whilst I run slower than the treadmill I eventually fall off...
"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard3 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for a system that has introduced so much powercreep, meaningless vertical progression, and has been the true root cause of most of the class skill nerfs in the game - sucking the fun and uniqueness out of each class. Powerful class skills are much more fun than just bigger damage numbers. But you cant have powerful skills and super high damage. Something had to give. Thankfully they chose wisely this time.
Here is a clip from the Twitch Stream:
https://clips.twitch.tv/SmilingKnottyNarwhalRlyTho
Notice that Rich ALMOST says the words "Power Creep." I almost cried. Half done is well begun Rich. Thanks for realizing the champion system road is a dead end. Lets hope its revamped to provide non-combat, non-stat based advantages that are fun to unlock for the people that like that sort of thing. Maybe removed entirely in PvP. That would be the best. I look forward to participating in "revamp the champ system" threads.
Seriously? You thank this is acceptable alternate progression. Dont add points but for the love of good fix the damn Cp system expand on it do something but this system resembles a beta AA system at best. 5 years maturity of a game would have several layers and some sort of vertical progession hidden in the system. You can only feed of a churn base so long before you have dried the well3 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Could you also explain to all these progression fetishists that love the existing crapeon system that their characters aren't really getting any stronger because ZOS nerfs class skills and buffs endgame content to compensate?
Vertical Progression isn't.
I don't understand this argument. The game has become easier as I have progressed through levels and CP points. Mudcrabs and wolves are annoyances now. I can even solo most of the world bosses in the base game. This is REAL progression, it is not an illusion (at least, it's no more of an illusion than that my sorc can strike imaginary creatures with lightning bolts).Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 2:24AM6 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Should be capped a 900 CP, think of the 300 CP per tree achievement.
What will a completionist do?
7 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭As some with 1,500 cp on main account and 900 cp on second. I welcome this change with open arms. The CP system is what has caused so many balance issues. Its what caused nerf after nerf to playstyles and builds. Its whats really kept them form being able to even have a vision for end game in sight for combat. This is a great move to anyone who has been playing ESO from day one and understands just how detrimental this system has been to the game.
What i would really like to see is the CP system opened up to more quality of life changes and away from combat. Make it effect horses, houses, inventory, how you get loot, gold, and other currencies. Make it effect thieving and murdering. There is so many directions they could take that wont effect combat and still allow us to keep what we have earned.
Edited by Inklings on January 16, 2019 2:30AM13 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭What i would really like to see is the CP system opened up to more quality of life changes and away from combat. Make it effect horses, houses, inventory, how you get loot, gold, and other currencies. Make it effect thieving and murdering. There is so many directions they could take that wont effect combat and still allow us to keep what we have earned.
This may motivate you. It does not motivate me.8 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭i do not care about CP at ALL. just let me keep my max magic, stamina, health
stamina, magick, health regens and resources returned from heavy attacks.
let me keep my harvesting speed...oh and crit...pls give us back that crit as baseline, or atleast part of major crit buff.
pls...plsplsplsplspl
you can then remove the system1 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.
The problem with the CP system wasn't so much the power creep, BUT was the fact that ZOS didn't reinstitute soft caps on all our stats to compensate for that power creep and force us to make decisions on where to spend those points.
What's the point for any one at cap, to bother buying the new chapter or to continue playing? There isn't any. Nothing but wasted XP that could have gone to something.
CP's with their power creep, would actually help people like me, who are disabled and have to use certain non-Xbox controllers because they are smaller in order to play on PC, to increase and be able to do harder content and continue to improve, despite not being able to animation cancel reliably or hold a perfect rotation.
So now, no improvement, despite hours and hours of playing and events, and what not. So then, what's the point?? If I can't improve either through raised stats so I can do more end game content, then there is no reason for me to bother buying the new content, or to pay for a sub, or really even to log on daily.
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
This is a bad decision. Very bad decision. The only way you are going to FIX CP's is to bring back SOFT CAPS!!! Yep, there are going to be a lot of end game and pvp players that aren't going to like that. BUT it is the only way you are going to be able to lower that ceiling you kept talking about earlier without obliterating he middle ground (like you've been doing), while also raising the floor.
These changes are NOT hurting your end game elite players. These changes are not hurting your lowest floor players. They are hurting your mid-ranged players who find normal dungeons and trials too easy, but some Vet Trials and most Vet HM too hard to complete or even be considered to be allowed to participate in because they don't meet the magick number DPS.
If you don't want player pulling 50K DPS, then put a god damned SOFT CAP on it!!!!! There, problem solved.. It forces them to use their CP in another spot other than DPS.
STOP punishing everyone because a few people are complaining about the power creep!!!!
People want to complain that CP is making them too powerful in overland content... create an on/off toggle. Make CP a PVE thing only.... can't have it in Cyrodiil.
ZOS needs to stop looking at how END GAME elite players are doing in this game and making decisions around them. They need to pay more attention to what the middle ground players are doing, especially those who fall in the GAP of being left out of things when decisions like this are made.Far too many characters to list any more.21 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭I'd like it if they removed the combat stuff too and added stuff like increased swim speed, movement speed, jump height, harvest chance, lock picking stuff, mount speed stuff... Something like that maybe? Or just remove it altogether and give us something new like spell crafting.2 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.
The problem with the CP system wasn't so much the power creep, BUT was the fact that ZOS didn't reinstitute soft caps on all our stats to compensate for that power creep and force us to make decisions on where to spend those points.
What's the point for any one at cap, to bother buying the new chapter or to continue playing? There isn't any. Nothing but wasted XP that could have gone to something.
CP's with their power creep, would actually help people like me, who are disabled and have to use certain non-Xbox controllers because they are smaller in order to play on PC, to increase and be able to do harder content and continue to improve, despite not being able to animation cancel reliably or hold a perfect rotation.
So now, no improvement, despite hours and hours of playing and events, and what not. So then, what's the point?? If I can't improve either through raised stats so I can do more end game content, then there is no reason for me to bother buying the new content, or to pay for a sub, or really even to log on daily.
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
This is a bad decision. Very bad decision. The only way you are going to FIX CP's is to bring back SOFT CAPS!!! Yep, there are going to be a lot of end game and pvp players that aren't going to like that. BUT it is the only way you are going to be able to lower that ceiling you kept talking about earlier without obliterating he middle ground (like you've been doing), while also raising the floor.
These changes are NOT hurting your end game elite players. These changes are not hurting your lowest floor players. They are hurting your mid-ranged players who find normal dungeons and trials too easy, but some Vet Trials and most Vet HM too hard to complete or even be considered to be allowed to participate in because they don't meet the magick number DPS.
If you don't want player pulling 50K DPS, then put a god damned SOFT CAP on it!!!!! There, problem solved.. It forces them to use their CP in another spot other than DPS.
STOP punishing everyone because a few people are complaining about the power creep!!!!
People want to complain that CP is making them too powerful in overland content... create an on/off toggle. Make CP a PVE thing only.... can't have it in Cyrodiil.
ZOS needs to stop looking at how END GAME elite players are doing in this game and making decisions around them. They need to pay more attention to what the middle ground players are doing, especially those who fall in the GAP of being left out of things when decisions like this are made.
i for one am never going to log into this game again, not only have they ignored the guild trader problem since day ONE (ADD IN A DAMN AUCTION HOUSE!) but now....what is the point of playing an mmorpg with ZERO progression? As an Xbox One player i am eagerly awaiting Black Desert Online to launch so i can play a REAL mmorpg. You people can stay here stroking one another with your lore.Edited by Neoicelord on January 16, 2019 4:02AM5 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭An MMO with no form of progression is an MMO that will not hold my attention much longer. Simple as that. The game will truly feel like a chore to play rather than something to do out of enjoyment. This game is turning more and more into a virtual world social networking platform. People already sit idle in Craglorn, Cyrodiil, etc. just to socialize. Now there is less reason to actually play the game. GG!12 -
xAk_MoRRoWiNdx✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I'd like to see some sort of end game progression line added with some interesting, even non-combat skills we can earn that give us something to do if they want to get rid of CP totally.
It's nice earning stuff like harvesting, or a little rez bonus, etc. more than just flat buffs and bonuses to entire swaths of damage.
There are plenty of really cool endgame perks you could add instead of just more damage, more healing, etc. Here's an example.
Beastmaster perk. Prevents low level enemies in base game zones from attacking or aggroing on you when you walk by. Would be nice to not have a low level wolf or bandit always decide to pick a fight with me that they will always lose. Plus it would make you feel like a boss going into low zones where they know not to mess with you. Immersive, useful, respectful of your progression, and fun. that is what the champ system should be.
Imagine farming crafting nodes with no pesky critters attacking you. Because they fear you based on your champion level.
Plus that would help with the low levels. You leave the kills for them. But if you can walk past everyone to mats, low levels are at a disadvantage and this might have some effect on the market, but I can't quite say to what extent.
I definitely like that idea but perks would have to be considered from every angle. Just something to think aboutNew to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:- PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
- Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
- MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
- Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
- Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
- Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .
My 10 characters:- AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
- EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
- DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
- EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
- AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
- DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
- AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
- DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
- EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
- EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭An MMO with no form of progression is an MMO that will not hold my attention much longer. Simple as that. The game will truly feel like a chore to play rather than something to do out of enjoyment. This game is turning more and more into a virtual world social networking platform. People already sit idle in Craglorn, Cyrodiil, etc. just to socialize. Now there is less reason to actually play the game. GG!
What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points. Regrinding all the guild skills and passives on every new character and build I make.
I never get bored in this game. There is always some crazy build i'm thinking of that I want to make. The part that makes me want to quit is when there is a huge unnecessary grind wall between me and the outcome I want.
If I could easily just gear and level all my characters i'd have so many cool builds to play. People that need some silly point system to guide them seem to lack any imagination. Grinding up points is the thing you do before you get to have fun, not the fun in itself.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 16, 2019 4:20AM3 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »An MMO with no form of progression is an MMO that will not hold my attention much longer. Simple as that. The game will truly feel like a chore to play rather than something to do out of enjoyment. This game is turning more and more into a virtual world social networking platform. People already sit idle in Craglorn, Cyrodiil, etc. just to socialize. Now there is less reason to actually play the game. GG!
What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points. Regrinding all the guild stills and passives on every new character and build I make.
I never get bored in this game. There is always some crazy build i'm thinking of that I want to make. The part that makes me want to quit is when there is a huge unnecessary grind wall between me and the outcome I want.
If I could easily just gear and level all my characters i'd have so many cool builds to play. People that need some silly point system to guide them seem to lack any imagination. Grinding up points is the thing you do before you get to have fun, not the fun in itself.
i play the game to get achievement points, to power level my character and constantly make my toon more powerful.
i do NOT play mmorpgs to have a story of any kind (i will ignore it) or lore of any kind (again, i will ignore it) i played WoW for 10 years and not once did i watch any cutscenes or read any quests, i was there to get loot, get achievements, make alts and play the lovely AUCTION HOUSE to make gold.
ESO gives me nothing and i in turn will not give them anything (money)3 -
stuartx13✭✭✭Well we had vet ranks but people cryed it was to hard and players said lets add champ system.So that what you get i think soft cap is the way to go and add another tree or so for non combat stuff.1
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VanyelMohr✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »What feels like a chore is constantly grinding up meaningless champion points. Regrinding all the guild stills and passives on every new character and build I make.
I never get bored in this game. There is always some crazy build i'm thinking of that I want to make. The part that makes me want to quit is when there is a huge unnecessary grind wall between me and the outcome I want.
If I could easily just gear and level all my characters i'd have so many cool builds to play. People that need some silly point system to guide them seem to lack any imagination. Grinding up points is the thing you do before you get to have fun, not the fun in itself.
I really wish we could all accept that what is fun for one person isn't always fun for another and find a way to meet everyone's needs. Since making everyone happy IS impossible, it would be great if we could state what we want without insulting the way other people play.
Ultimately, ZOS will listen to one side of the debate or another and make a choice. Players will then have a choice to keep playing or not. I'm putting my vote in for some sort of VERTICAL progression system. ZOS will either continue to provide it or it won't. I will make my decision whether to continue to play accordingly.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 4:23AM8 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, no thanks. Without even the illusion of progression I will simply quit playing. It's already tempting. Separate PVE and PVP, then no one needs to care about power creep.forever stuck in combat9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd like to see some sort of end game progression line added with some interesting, even non-combat skills we can earn that give us something to do if they want to get rid of CP totally.
It's nice earning stuff like harvesting, or a little rez bonus, etc. more than just flat buffs and bonuses to entire swaths of damage.
Progression is completing endgame content.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No MMORPG can survive without some sort of vertical progression, wether you like this or not it is just a fact, the nature of the beast so to speak.
You can bet on this.
Wrong.
GW2 has zero vertical progression. It has one of the healthiest MMO populations.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:27AM3 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.0 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome 2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.5 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »I really wish we could all accept that what is fun for one person isn't always fun for another and find a way to meet everyone's needs. Since making everyone happy IS impossible, it would be great if we could state what we want without insulting the way other people play.
The problem with the "live and let live" approach is that you seem to be drawing a line in the sand that says "Increase my combat power or else." Is there no other way for the champion system to grant some sort of intangible benefits instead of raw stat increases? Do you have to feel more powerful than other players or can it only affect solo content?
Raw power increase forces ZOS to either make the endgame content harder, or nerf skills somewhere else. The difference between "Your way" and "My way" is that my way doesn't require anything of you. But your way demands that I have to endlessly grind a power progression system to stay relevant, to be competitive in both pvp and pve. With my way we could both play endgame content, it just requires you to actually enjoy playing the game for the games sake.
This divide is bigger than just this game. You see this in philosophy, politics etc. There are always two ways. One way is the way of the individual, the other way forces everyone to participate for ostensible group benefits.
I wish there was a way for you to feel special and continue to power up endlessly like Goku without it affecting my gaming time.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 16, 2019 4:35AM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
By turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:55AM1
