Free the Warden class!

Anti_Virus

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

KillsAllElves

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

Anti_Virus

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8

Go play necro KThxBye

KillsAllElves

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

G8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8

Go play necro KThxBye

I dont understand your computer nerd rage codes. Use english.

BrokenGameMechanics

KillsAllElves wrote: »

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.
Try again!

For those who may be mislead here a bit. As someone who has mained an Ice Mage Warden for a long time, ZOS has also said that the DPS-ish Ice Mage is a non-starter. FWIW I've found a Tank Ice Mage to be OK for mostly normal Dungs.

However, for whatever the reason, as certainly Ice Mages were not a large population, were not OP, and while fun to play, only somewhat effective in PVP etc, ZOS put some pretty heavy nerfs on them this release. It is enough in my opinion to make them ineffective. Enough so that I de-conned Gold'd out Icy Conj, Ysgrs and Winterborne. Why they opted to kill off, for no real reason whatsoever, what in my opinion is the only somewhat effective niche offensive build for a Magden is beyond me.

TL;DR is Ice Mages were somewhat effective, were definitely fun to play, but are NO LONGER viable. No idea why ZOS went this direction, total head scratcher.

Zardayne

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

I agree! Animals, healing plants, and then ice..always seemed like a foolish choice for a third skill line on a nature based class. IMO it should have been a necro skill line. If I remember right in old ES games, necros used ice there.

Nerouyn

Just making it free wouldn't fix the class.

It's full of design problems. Which need to be fixed.

Shaie

I also found a 3rd skill line of Ice to be weird. To me, the Warden class is a cross between Druid & Ranger and I expected to have a "pet" skill line, a healing skill line and a Nature Magic skill line. Yes, ice is frozen water & yes, water is natural but it's NOT Nature Magic - it's always been a Mage thing, not a Druid thing. I remember looking at them when I first created mine & thinking, "Ice? Huh, that's... (weird)unexpected..." I don't actually use it on either Warden as it just doesn't offer anything that I feel is useful to my play style.

With the introduction of Necromancers though, that Ice magic would have been WAY better suited to them. Perhaps they will redo Wardens to more reflect Nature magicks and thus be more desireable & useful as a class than they are now. We can only hope...

Anti_Virus

Shaie wrote: »

I also found a 3rd skill line of Ice to be weird. To me, the Warden class is a cross between Druid & Rangerand I expected to have a "pet" skill line, a healing skill line and a Nature Magic skill line. Yes, ice is frozen water & yes, water is natural but it's NOT Nature Magic - it's always been a Mage thing, not a Druid thing. I remember looking at them when I first created mine & thinking, "Ice? Huh, that's... (weird)unexpected..." I don't actually use it on either Warden as it just doesn't offer anything that I feel is useful to my play style.

With the introduction of Necromancers though, that Ice magic would have been WAY better suited to them. Perhaps they will redo Wardens to more reflect Nature magicks and thus be more desireable & useful as a class than they are now. We can only hope...

This. Necros do have ice, for those ice mage rpers they can go play necro and leave warden alone.

Runefang

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

If ice is nature so is fire and lightning. Silly argument.

Tigerseye

Yeah, Warden is utter cr*p.

I only play it for flavour.

If I cared at all about maximising output, I wouldn't bother with it.

Shouldn't be like that, should it?

All classes should be equal, in terms of potential max DPS etc..

If you want people to take your game (even vaguely) seriously, it has to be balanced.

Tigerseye

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Warden is arguably the strongest class for group play and battlegrounds.

"Arguably" by whom, exactly?

No one who plays one seems to think that out in the actual community (in guild/zone chat etc.).

Ysbriel

Zardayne wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

I agree! Animals, healing plants, and then ice..always seemed like a foolish choice for a third skill line on a nature based class. IMO it should have been a necro skill line. If I remember right in old ES games, necros used ice there.

TUNDRA, you know like Siberia, Alaska, Canada lots of ice in the winter, green on summer, huge bears and 454 Casull to keep you safe from them. Yes Ice is part of the deal, it was showcased with it. WINTERS EMBRACE. you know it has a whole skill line with lots of POLAR, ARTIC, ICE, PERMAFROST, SLEET, FOZEN on the name of the skills, yes its about ice but since as always in this freaking game and community if its not about the LOUD SORCERES everything else from Dragonknights, Nightblades, Templars and Wardens can be nerfed, gutted, dissectied with any “balancing” explanation in mind. And now yes ahh the new necro has ice? seriously? i did not pre order Morrowind to get a class with ice for the answer to be to buy a new chapter cause then you will have it, When i think of NECRO as in DEATH thats what the focus is, when a class has included all the word stated above purposely on caps to point out the Obvious fact that indeed the class hits at freaking ice then that is what i freaking expect from it, why is it that people like you keep trying to screw it up for everybody else when they state out obvious things the class needs help with? ALL CLASSES deserve attention not just the NECRO because its new or not just the SORCS because most people have them or they scream the loudest.

barney2525

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

The only way to make Ice dps viable at the moment is to make a new class that specialises in it, as the only class skill tree that is themed for ice is for tanking. Also a ice healing tree is quite logical as well as you use an ice pack on injuries to reduce swelling and promote recovery.

All, we need to get realistic here. ZOS has repeatedly and on numerous occasions stated that the Warden - Ice Mage direction for the Magden is a no go. That is out there on the record. So they did warn us. They carried through with their statement by layering multiple nerfs on Ice this release. I learned the hard way and de-conned GOLDED out sets, Ygrs, Conj. Given that I have not yet found any other effective alternative (and lord knows I have tried) play style for a Magden in PVP this campaign, it now looks like I will be deleting my 2 year old primary Main Toon as well. Not sure why they have it in for the Magden, but after 2 years of all nerfs and no buffs, it is time to read the hand writing on the wall here.

I only wish they were so good at execution with all of their public statements.

The Bear In PVP And ZOS Commitment To Getting It Right

When the Warden first came out, I was one of the few that deliberately ran the Bear in PvP. It was actually marginally effective. You could in a 1v1 situation get the Bear to engage. For example, I would hit them with Bugs to get the AOE going at max distance. The Bear would rush out and immediately engage and stay engaged on the opposing player.

Yes the Bear had a TON of problems, but at least more often then not it would ACTUALLY ATTACK an opposing player (say 75% of the time)AND while again problematic the Bear Ulti would go off and do some damage that mattered.

Then ZOS's Combat Designer came out and emphatically announced "we hear you the Bear is problematic at times, but let me state THAT WE ARE COMMITTED TO GETTING IT RIGHT."

So fast forward to today and ponder ZOS's version of "committed to getting it right" for the Bear.

First, they delivered a 30% nerf in damage making the Bear Ulti damage effectively negligible." Wow, committed is right. When you add on that it is a double bar required Ulti you just want to cry for these guys. What are they thinking?

Second, and this is not commonly known, BEFORE the 30% damage nerf, they severally nerfed the Bear's agro, pathing, attack logic. Now in PvP if you initiate an engagement by sending a Bird or Bugs, the Bear runs out towards the player, turns around and comes back. It will do this repeatedly. Run out, turn around and come back. It never attacks. This is now the Bear's dominate behavior, run out, stop, lop back, run out, stop, lop back ... back and forth, back and forth. When it is not doing this the next most likely behavior is the Bear will either just stand then or disappear. In other words the Bear will say 70 to 80% of the time either just be running back and forth or will stand there and not move or will disappear. 20-30% it will actually BRIEFLY engage an enemy. By engage I mean the Bear will look like it is attacking by running to andfollowing an enemy player. This, as we shall see, does NOT mean the Bear is actually doing damage to that player.

In addition, they shortened the aggro time to a second or two. IF by some strange twist of fate the Bear does engage with some random enemy IF you spend a second or two to Heal or Buff the Bear IMMEDIATELY stops attacking and yes, starts walking back to the player. So by ZOS logic you can be stuck in combat all alone in a field for minutes at a time, but as far as the Bear is concerned IF you do not damage a player while in combat within 1-2 seconds the Bear immediately goes "out of combat", stops attacking and just lops away BEHIND you. (Sigh it is not even a decent meat shield.)

Finally, to cap off and to really show the community their "commitment" the Bear Ulti now almost NEVER fires, far far less then it used to. You can spam it over and over and over and over and over and over ... without any effect. And when it DOES go off, it almost ALWAYS misses. Zero damage, zip, nada, nothing.

If you didn't run the Bear Ulti in PvP in the beginning it is hard to appreciate how hard they nerfed the Bear's combat logic prior to the more well know 30% damage nerf. But it is very easy to see how poor it is. Go into your UI and turn off ALL combat stats except for Pet Damage. Go into PvP engage in some combat and try to note the very rare occasion where the Bear does damage. Now try and fire off your Ulti. Keep spamming it and don't give up. Eventually at some point it will go off. Look for damage, see any. No. Well just keep at it. Maybe once every 20 minutes or so you will get the Bear Ulti to fire and hit. Now look at the damage, is it more then what you get from 1 or 2 light attacks? Nope. ZOS combat equivalence logic: Double Bar Ulit with low hit probability is roughly equal to 2 Light Attacks in damage.

What you will see is:

1. The Bear will rarely engage.
2. It will run towards enemies and then immediately turn around and return without engaging.
3. If it does engage it will rarely do damage.
4. If it does engage, it will be for brief seconds, where it will just turn around and lop back to you.
5. The Bear Ulti will only fire maybe 20% of the time. You can spam it over and over and over and nothing will happen. Maybe 20-30% of the time will it actually go off.
6. IF the Bear Ulti, finally, does go off, 80% of the time you will see ZERO dmg. ZERO dmg. The Bear Ulti has a 80% MISS rate.
7. And finally if by some miracle your double bar Ulti does GO OFF and does HIT it does little to no damage. It is funny, sad that the Bear's occasional maul attack DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN THE ULTI (it can Crit, the Ulti can't). Sigh, what are they thinking ... really what ...

Effectively it is a RNG that the Bear will engage, followed by an RNG that the Bear will stay engaged, followed by another RNG that the bear will do damage. So it is like you have to roll three dice and get all 6's to get ONE attack to hit. Same for the Ulti. It is an RNG that the Ulti fires, followed by another RNG that the attack hits/does damage (most of the time it won't).

Moral of the story, if ZOS's Combat Designer grabs the mic and states "we are committed to getting it right" just de-conn the applicable sets and delete the character and find a class where ZOS's Combat Design Team is less committed.

NOTE the above commentary and observations are about Magden and the Bear in PVP only.

None of the changes were Zos.

The Bears just have a really good union and had those changes put in the contract. Otherwise they strike and don't summon when called.

Walking back and standing ON TOP of the character so the Bear blocks the character from looting the enemy is also in their contract.

8)

KillsAllElves

Runefang wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

If ice is nature so is fire and lightning. Silly argument.

Did you figure that out all by your self or did some one hold your hand while you Were doing a google search on natural elements?!

Like tf

KillsAllElves

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

If ice is nature so is fire and lightning. Silly argument.

Did you figure that out all by your self or did some one hold your hand while you Were doing a google search on natural elements?!

Like tf

Morrowind is free from snow and ice besides solstheim, unlike other parts of tamriel at the same lattitude.

Replace wardens ice abilities with volcanic ash to better facilitate the warden morrowind connection.

Still have not seen a bear in vvardenfell.

sionIV

They're not going to change the identity of the warden. You might not like the Winter's Embrace skill line, but it's here to stay. Hopefully they'll rework it (at least change arctic blast back), but they won't remove it.

heaven13

KillsAllElves wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

Lol no warden was marketed as a nature mage with Ice abilities tacked on, the damn class Icon is a bear paw for crying out loud try again.

"Nature mage" ice is nature! the wardens emblem could have been the sleet storm icon, your argument is irrelevant.

It was stated in a twitch stream by zos, if you want to be an ice mage use the warden.

Try again!

If ice is nature so is fire and lightning. Silly argument.

Did you figure that out all by your self or did some one hold your hand while you Were doing a google search on natural elements?!

Like tf

Morrowind is free from snow and ice besides solstheim, unlike other parts of tamriel at the same lattitude.

Replace wardens ice abilities with volcanic ash to better facilitate the warden morrowind connection.

Still have not seen a bear in vvardenfell.

No thanks. It's already unfortunate that the animal companions are so strongly tied to the Morrowind theme. Classes are not and should not be so thematic to a particular zone or race, not when there are 10 playable races in the game.

I enjoyed ice staves before they became tanking weapons. I was excited to have an option for ice mages again and it's unfortunate that it's not all that viable, even for the class with an entire skill line dedicated to it.

tspecherb14_ESO

Free the Warden and free JC as well. Paid for both and fine letting the game phase these into the base game.

Peekachu99

When they stripped out arctic blast and then added the same effect to an armor set literally one patch later, you got an unfiltered sense of how much they were confused by how to balance the class.

Who even uses that absurd stun/ projectile morph? I’ve literally never seen anyone use it, ever.

barney2525

Peekachu99 wrote: »

When they stripped out arctic blast and then added the same effect to an armor set literally one patch later, you got an unfiltered sense of how much they were confused by how to balance the class.

Who even uses that absurd stun/ projectile morph? I’ve literally never seen anyone use it, ever.

Started a brand new warden. Did the tutorial rather than skip it. Since you get one skill point at a time, ended up not even putting a dot into frost line initially. Now he's level 20, and STILL has a frost of 1. Just nothing really useful there.

IMHO

Tipsy

I love the theme of the warden class ,but non of the skill rotations are enjoyable to me.Winter embrace feels very lacking ,to me at least. such a shame since I love the warden theme a lot more than the sorc,but stormcalling's rotation feels much nicer.Though in the case of sorc I dont like dark magic and deadric summons too much. So none of the classes really satisfies and thats probably why i've rerolled countless times too

karekiz

Warden bear is fine with 30% nerf.

...

Just group with a necro, they have an ult called Pre-nerfed bear. For about 8 or so seconds you can feel like ZoS didn't nerf you.

max_only

karekiz wrote: »

Warden bear is fine with 30% nerf.

...

Just group with a necro, they have an ult called Pre-nerfed bear. For about 8 or so seconds you can feel like ZoS didn't nerf you.

Necro is going to get their comeuppance once sales start to die down.

KillsAllElves

[



[/quote]

No thanks. It's already unfortunate that the animal companions are so strongly tied to the Morrowind theme. Classes are not and should not be so thematic to a particular zone or race, not when there are 10 playable races in the game.

Warden is already a half assed zone themed class, even the warden name comes from [Vvarden]fell. Replace the bear with a kaguoti.

max_only

Well at least they came to their senses on Artic Blast, only took them more than a year.

Maybe next year they’ll return the bear.

Hazurko_RaShan

What has happened to warden will happen to necromancer once Zos releases a new class. They will want you to buy the new chapter so they will nerf the old to make it less attractive and try to motivate you to spend. That's how they roll. please accept this as reality until proven otherwise. thank you and have a wonder life.