Free the Warden class!

siddique

max_only wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

Warden main here, If it was added to base-game the hope would be maybe they wouldn't continuously gut it so much. But then I look at Sorcs and realize we'd probably still get the same treatment.

But agreed, it should just be moved to base game already. I preordered Morrowind too and love the class, and i really think keeping it in the crown-store is a silly move now. Make it base-game, then people can't scream "Pay to win" when they maybe do balances that are in the classes favor for once.

Nothing wrong with Sorcerers, they just have the loudest players.

I sense a cloaking nightblade. Nerf!

max_only

siddique wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

Warden main here, If it was added to base-game the hope would be maybe they wouldn't continuously gut it so much. But then I look at Sorcs and realize we'd probably still get the same treatment.

But agreed, it should just be moved to base game already. I preordered Morrowind too and love the class, and i really think keeping it in the crown-store is a silly move now. Make it base-game, then people can't scream "Pay to win" when they maybe do balances that are in the classes favor for once.

Nothing wrong with Sorcerers, they just have the loudest players.

I sense a cloaking nightblade. Nerf!

I haven’t played my Nightblade in months. They ruined Nb tanking. Every time we found a way to be unique and useful they took it away

SidraWillowsky

max_only wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

Warden main here, If it was added to base-game the hope would be maybe they wouldn't continuously gut it so much. But then I look at Sorcs and realize we'd probably still get the same treatment.

But agreed, it should just be moved to base game already. I preordered Morrowind too and love the class, and i really think keeping it in the crown-store is a silly move now. Make it base-game, then people can't scream "Pay to win" when they maybe do balances that are in the classes favor for once.

Nothing wrong with Sorcerers, they just have the loudest players.

I sense a cloaking nightblade. Nerf!

I haven’t played my Nightblade in months. They ruined Nb tanking. Every time we found a way to be unique and useful they took it away

Nerf sorcs?

Get_Packed

The problem with warden comes down to its ability to kill another player. The burst window is kinda weird with the 3 second deep fissure, why would they make it block-able? That made no sense at all.
Since we dont really have a way to execute and its even harder now that deep fissure is blockable. The frost stun is ok but it needs a dot or something to stack damage.

MentalxHammer

bearbelly wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Warden is arguably the strongest class for group play and battlegrounds.

Tank?

I'm finally thinking of getting into group play (I'm primarily solo), but I need to respec my main in order to be viable.
Frakkin' mudcrabs pose a danger to her at the moment.

The most popular group play builds for warden play high damage set ups and are built for aoe burst damage, most commonly stamina. With soothing spores and vigor (next patch natures embrace) you can offer fat heals to the group while at the same time stacking aoe damage with scorch. I'll be rolling with a master maul carve build next patch

ccmedaddy

I love how Necromancer's class identity is incorporated into cool unique mechanics like corpses and stuff while magden's class identity as an animal summoner just means our animations are extra slow. What a concept.

Sergykid

in BGs even a tank magden will get 4k damage dealt per cast ability, which is a spammable and can be combined with the aoe one. That frost ult is also incredible useful. That damage paired with stuck to the caster, paired with major protection, ok.

Get_Packed

Sergykid wrote: »

in BGs even a tank magden will get 4k damage dealt per cast ability, which is a spammable and can be combined with the aoe one. That frost ult is also incredible useful. That damage paired with stuck to the caster, paired with major protection, ok.

Maybe if the target doesnt have inpen.

Sergykid

Get_Packed wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

in BGs even a tank magden will get 4k damage dealt per cast ability, which is a spammable and can be combined with the aoe one. That frost ult is also incredible useful. That damage paired with stuck to the caster, paired with major protection, ok.

Maybe if the target doesnt have inpen.

i'm full impen and had 22k spell resist.

Anti_Virus

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

barney2525

ankeor wrote: »

Free Imperial race!

Agreed. Just got squeegeed with that one. Imperial costs extra?

a pox on you!

barney2525

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No!

A giant Penguin


8)

Skwor

When will the "give me free stuff" threads ever end?

Devs need to eat too you know and servers cost money.

max_only

Skwor wrote: »

When will the "give me free stuff" threads ever end?

Devs need to eat too you know and servers cost money.

Have you read the op at all? I think not.

Stx

Warden is still in a really great spot, so I wouldnt complain. Everyone gets nerfs.

Wardens of all flavors are beast in pvp and in pve if I'm not mistaken mag dps is the only role that's not competitive.

Having minor berserk passive and minor protection attached to armor buff is pretty awesome.

Darkenarlol

stop your pathetic conspirology. please.

and all those posts about "PAYWALL" just make me laugh

it is 1.5 k crowns AND can be gifted thru crown store so it

is purchaseable for in-game obtainable GOLD.

if you still call it a "paywall" you are either lazy IRL or ingame. maybe both.

ccmedaddy

Darkenarlol wrote: »

stop your pathetic conspirology. please.

and all those posts about "PAYWALL" just make me laugh

it is 1.5 k crowns AND can be gifted thru crown store so it

is purchaseable for in-game obtainable GOLD.

if you still call it a "paywall" you are either lazy IRL or ingame. maybe both.

You literally just described a paywall but go off I guess

max_only

Darkenarlol wrote: »

stop your pathetic conspirology. please.

and all those posts about "PAYWALL" just make me laugh

it is 1.5 k crowns AND can be gifted thru crown store so it

is purchaseable for in-game obtainable GOLD.

if you still call it a "paywall" you are either lazy IRL or ingame. maybe both.

You’re too lazy to read.

EvilAutoTech

Free Imperial Wardens in any alliance

Oh wait...

Grandma

they'd still probably get nerfed pretty consistently but it'd be nice to have them be free to play. I suspect we'd see more healers.

KillsAllElves

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

LeHarrt91

I feel they should add a Cyromancer with all ice theme and change the wardens Winters Embrace to nature themed lol as its a mix of both and it doesnt quite fit.

KillsAllElves

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

I feel they should add a Cyromancer with all ice theme and change the wardens Winters Embrace to nature themed lol as its a mix of both and it doesnt quite fit.

I can agree with that.

LeHarrt91

KillsAllElves wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

I feel they should add a Cyromancer with all ice theme and change the wardens Winters Embrace to nature themed lol as its a mix of both and it doesnt quite fit.

I can agree with that.

The only way to make Ice dps viable at the moment is to make a new class that specialises in it, as the only class skill tree that is themed for ice is for tanking. Also a ice healing tree is quite logical as well as you use an ice pack on injuries to reduce swelling and promote recovery.

Cundu_Ertur

The bear is not worth 2 ultimate slots.

max_only

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Trash the bear and replace it with a frost atronach that deals big aoe damage

Replace the birds with ice balls

Buff ice damage, ice staff and ice damage sets

Replace the netch with an ice wraith.

No. I like my nature theme TYVM

If you want Ice go play necro

Either you didnt read my post or your comprehension is lacking!

The warden was marketed as a response to those who wanted an ice mage, if you have a problem with that take it up with the developer.

Warden was supposed to have alot of ice themed abilities, the warden seems to be in a weird spot as if its not sure if it should suck on ice cubes or play a landscaper.

"If you want ice go play necro" - you offer no constructive suggestions!

IMHO It was marketed as a pet class/ranger. The commercial had a giant bear in it.The ice swirl the Redguard thing wasn’t shown as much as the bear.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

The bear is not worth 2 ultimate slots.

The bear is not worth the money. If I want to pay to get whipped I’d go downtown.

Sergykid

i bought it with ingame gold, everyone can do it if they want the class. What to do with gold in this game anyway? Except for housing or motifs, which both are cosmetic, you don't have what to spend gold on. More than half of my sunk gold went into crown store stuff

Nemesis7884

Still very salty about the arctic blast change, it wasnt op in any way, no one asked for a change and i dont see anyone using the new version....i still dont understand why they did that

BrokenGameMechanics

MentalxHammer wrote: »

With soothing spores and vigor (next patch natures embrace) you can offer fat heals to the group while at the same time stacking aoe damage with scorch. I'll be rolling with a master maul carve build next patch

I used to be on the fence with ZOS but ultimately cut them some slack that they really knew their game and had a direction. I have since changed my mind.

It UNBELIEVABLE that ZOS decided to simultaneously:

• Remove the ONLY viable play style for a magden from the game. The Ice Mage with 2 major stacking nerfs this release. How the Game Designer woke up and decided suddenly that Immobilize is on par with a spammable knockback stun is beyond me. What is he thinking/seeing that makes that the case?
• And then simultaneously eliminate the last remaining thing a magden brought to the table with PvP group play which was a hybred some damage, some healing play. You already have unkillable stam ball groups from Vigor healing. Again, how the heck did the Game Designer wake up and decide stam needed even MORE ball group healing with Nature's Embrace (BEST HOT) is just beyond me.

Magden (DPS) only sub-class in the game that has NEVER RECEIVED A SINGLE BUFF for over 2 years. Even more depressing is if you actually write down all the nerfs over the last 2 years Magden has been the single most nerfed class by a wide margin.

How the Game Designer woke up one morning and thought "community feedback is telling me Magden's are the lowest ranked sub-class in the game, I need to keep steady stream of nerfs and no buffs over the next 2 years to ensure that."

I honestly think that no member of ZOS's Combat Team has ever gone into PvP for the day on a Magden.

BrokenGameMechanics

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

The only way to make Ice dps viable at the moment is to make a new class that specialises in it, as the only class skill tree that is themed for ice is for tanking. Also a ice healing tree is quite logical as well as you use an ice pack on injuries to reduce swelling and promote recovery.

All, we need to get realistic here. ZOS has repeatedly and on numerous occasions stated that the Warden - Ice Mage direction for the Magden is a no go. That is out there on the record. So they did warn us. They carried through with their statement by layering multiple nerfs on Ice this release. I learned the hard way and de-conned GOLDED out sets, Ygrs, Conj. Given that I have not yet found any other effective alternative (and lord knows I have tried) play style for a Magden in PVP this campaign, it now looks like I will be deleting my 2 year old primary Main Toon as well. Not sure why they have it in for the Magden, but after 2 years of all nerfs and no buffs, it is time to read the hand writing on the wall here.

I only wish they were so good at execution with all of their public statements.

The Bear In PVP And ZOS Commitment To Getting It Right

When the Warden first came out, I was one of the few that deliberately ran the Bear in PvP. It was actually marginally effective. You could in a 1v1 situation get the Bear to engage. For example, I would hit them with Bugs to get the AOE going at max distance. The Bear would rush out and immediately engage and stay engaged on the opposing player.

Yes the Bear had a TON of problems, but at least more often then not it would ACTUALLY ATTACK an opposing player (say 75% of the time)AND while again problematic the Bear Ulti would go off and do some damage that mattered.

Then ZOS's Combat Designer came out and emphatically announced "we hear you the Bear is problematic at times, but let me state THAT WE ARE COMMITTED TO GETTING IT RIGHT."

So fast forward to today and ponder ZOS's version of "committed to getting it right" for the Bear.

First, they delivered a 30% nerf in damage making the Bear Ulti damage effectively negligible." Wow, committed is right. When you add on that it is a double bar required Ulti you just want to cry for these guys. What are they thinking?

Second, and this is not commonly known, BEFORE the 30% damage nerf, they severally nerfed the Bear's agro, pathing, attack logic. Now in PvP if you initiate an engagement by sending a Bird or Bugs, the Bear runs out towards the player, turns around and comes back. It will do this repeatedly. Run out, turn around and come back. It never attacks. This is now the Bear's dominate behavior, run out, stop, lop back, run out, stop, lop back ... back and forth, back and forth. When it is not doing this the next most likely behavior is the Bear will either just stand then or disappear. In other words the Bear will say 70 to 80% of the time either just be running back and forth or will stand there and not move or will disappear. 20-30% it will actually BRIEFLY engage an enemy. By engage I mean the Bear will look like it is attacking by running to andfollowing an enemy player. This, as we shall see, does NOT mean the Bear is actually doing damage to that player.

In addition, they shortened the aggro time to a second or two. IF by some strange twist of fate the Bear does engage with some random enemy IF you spend a second or two to Heal or Buff the Bear IMMEDIATELY stops attacking and yes, starts walking back to the player. So by ZOS logic you can be stuck in combat all alone in a field for minutes at a time, but as far as the Bear is concerned IF you do not damage a player while in combat within 1-2 seconds the Bear immediately goes "out of combat", stops attacking and just lops away BEHIND you. (Sigh it is not even a decent meat shield.)

Finally, to cap off and to really show the community their "commitment" the Bear Ulti now almost NEVER fires, far far less then it used to. You can spam it over and over and over and over and over and over ... without any effect. And when it DOES go off, it almost ALWAYS misses. Zero damage, zip, nada, nothing.

If you didn't run the Bear Ulti in PvP in the beginning it is hard to appreciate how hard they nerfed the Bear's combat logic prior to the more well know 30% damage nerf. But it is very easy to see how poor it is. Go into your UI and turn off ALL combat stats except for Pet Damage. Go into PvP engage in some combat and try to note the very rare occasion where the Bear does damage. Now try and fire off your Ulti. Keep spamming it and don't give up. Eventually at some point it will go off. Look for damage, see any. No. Well just keep at it. Maybe once every 20 minutes or so you will get the Bear Ulti to fire and hit. Now look at the damage, is it more then what you get from 1 or 2 light attacks? Nope. ZOS combat equivalence logic: Double Bar Ulit with low hit probability is roughly equal to 2 Light Attacks in damage.

What you will see is:

1. The Bear will rarely engage.
2. It will run towards enemies and then immediately turn around and return without engaging.
3. If it does engage it will rarely do damage.
4. If it does engage, it will be for brief seconds, where it will just turn around and lop back to you.
5. The Bear Ulti will only fire maybe 20% of the time. You can spam it over and over and over and nothing will happen. Maybe 20-30% of the time will it actually go off.
6. IF the Bear Ulti, finally, does go off, 80% of the time you will see ZERO dmg. ZERO dmg. The Bear Ulti has a 80% MISS rate.
7. And finally if by some miracle your double bar Ulti does GO OFF and does HIT it does little to no damage. It is funny, sad that the Bear's occasional maul attack DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN THE ULTI (it can Crit, the Ulti can't). Sigh, what are they thinking ... really what ...

Effectively it is a RNG that the Bear will engage, followed by an RNG that the Bear will stay engaged, followed by another RNG that the bear will do damage. So it is like you have to roll three dice and get all 6's to get ONE attack to hit. Same for the Ulti. It is an RNG that the Ulti fires, followed by another RNG that the attack hits/does damage (most of the time it won't).

Moral of the story, if ZOS's Combat Designer grabs the mic and states "we are committed to getting it right" just de-conn the applicable sets and delete the character and find a class where ZOS's Combat Design Team is less committed.

NOTE the above commentary and observations are about Magden and the Bear in PVP only.