ZOS, please let us use "female" adornments on male characters.

Sheezabeast

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Sheezabeast - far as I'm concerned you should be able to go there!

It would be so cool to make one and be able to roleplay her in Dwemer armor, make a character that could be a blacksmith, or a collector of artifacts, so many possibilities I'm being completely serious, not using shock value.

Aliyavana

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Yes why can't I make a fat female Bosmer and give her a beard, like a female dwarf?

Actually, you might be thinking of a different type of dwarf

max_only

Ravena wrote: »

Now with Summerset we've even got a transgendered NPC, but guys still can't wear adornments!

How can this be a fantasy game if I can't make an elven pretty boy?

I just posted some elven pretty boys though.

On topic of the thread, yes all adornments need to be made available for my babies to slay gurl.

Tigerseye

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

@Tigerseye
I'm not obligated to since it's outside the main topic and I have better things to do on Christmas evening.

Well, not that many better things, apparently, seeing as you are (or were) here arguing about this nonsense, lol.

You could just live and let live.

Linaleah

honestly, I think pretty much everything should be unisex. so... yeah.

as for "mah immurshun" I think.. that train has passed the moment we were able to ride fantastical mounts while wearing rainbow colored outfits. and for me at least the biggest "throws me out of the fantasy" thing is names anyways. but.. people are javing fun with them, so.. shrug.

let

people

have

fun.

wearing dresses and earrings hurts no one, unlike hateful whispers, and general trolling.

Tigerseye

Androconium wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Khajiit needs flowers in the hair, please to consider, many thank.

Khajiits definitely do need flowers.

All big cats should have flowers in their fur:

http://www.gorgeousartgirl.com/fleur-cowles-painter-illustrator-publishing-icon/

I would also really like a tiger mount, with a pale pink flower garland (a bit like a slightly more subtle version of the tiger figurine, shown here).

No. What you want is a tiger mount with the OPTION of pink flower garlands, on your female tiger.

Yeah, fair enough.

I wouldn't mind if it was optional.

Linaleah

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So if you want to cross dress, you can do it with costumes, where females can wear mens clothing and vice versa. Jewelry sure whatever.

M_Volsung wrote: »

Alternatively, why can't my Nord female have a proper beard, like any true Nord would?

But if you want your character to have a beard, make a male character. Women do not have beards.

yes they do. and I'm not talking about transgender women either - I'm talking about cis women, to use modern terminology .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_lady
https://www.businessinsider.com/beards-facial-hair-men-cant-grow-dermatologist-testosterone-2018-11

both men and women have hair on their faces. it just so happens that due to how our hormones are - women's face hair tend to be finer. but there are women who for variety of reason have non standard hormonal make up and so their facial hair is thicker. some getting plucked/waxed. and some - let it grow out. (its not dissimilar to men who cannot grow beards as their facial hair is too fine/sparse)

so before you make such definitive statements... maybe.. just maybe, do your research. you know?

StormChaser3000

Tigerseye wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

@Tigerseye
I'm not obligated to since it's outside the main topic and I have better things to do on Christmas evening.

Well, not that many better things, apparently, seeing as you are (or were) here arguing about this nonsense, lol.

You could just live and let live.

It's not me who writes dissertations here about female khajiit mutated body parts.

Tigerseye

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

@Tigerseye
I'm not obligated to since it's outside the main topic and I have better things to do on Christmas evening.

Well, not that many better things, apparently, seeing as you are (or were) here arguing about this nonsense, lol.

You could just live and let live.

It's not me who writes dissertations here about female khajiit mutated body parts.

If that is your idea of a dissertation, I dread to think what your idea of a short, witty comment would be?

One letter?

rexagamemnon

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So if you want to cross dress, you can do it with costumes, where females can wear mens clothing and vice versa. Jewelry sure whatever.

M_Volsung wrote: »

Alternatively, why can't my Nord female have a proper beard, like any true Nord would?

But if you want your character to have a beard, make a male character. Women do not have beards.

a) I think that was a light-hearted comment
b) Many women do have beards (or would if they didn't have treatments to remove the hair)
c) No, I don't think we should have beards for female characters, but the adornments should be usable whatever.

The overwhelming majority of women who have beards have a hormone imbalance(webmd). I wouldnt wish an unhealthy condition for anyone simply because they want something.

KyraCROgnon

Am i the only fan here of Castle Waiting comic book ? i wanna be able to play a bearbed nun in ESO !

Ananoriel

Yes! I need to see more strong male warriors with tiaras!
But jokes aside, I don't see why it should be gender locked. I can imagine mages wearing circlets and stuff.

StormChaser3000

Tigerseye wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

@Tigerseye
I'm not obligated to since it's outside the main topic and I have better things to do on Christmas evening.

Well, not that many better things, apparently, seeing as you are (or were) here arguing about this nonsense, lol.

You could just live and let live.

It's not me who writes dissertations here about female khajiit mutated body parts.

If that is your idea of a dissertation, I dread to think what your idea of a short, witty comment would be?

One letter?

Y.

Why are you so salty? Got rocks from Santa?

Lol, mods will get a heart attack after coming back from holidays and seeing all this mess.

@rexagamemnon They are probably having a hangover after Christmas. You'll have to wait a bit for them to come back.

Greystag

Yeah I think I give up on this discussion. Next time you want to discuss politics make a new thread or take it to discord or something.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the original discussion. I don't think there's a reason against making jewellery unisex, since everything released since launch has been available to both sexes. The only reason I can think of is pure laziness and no way to monetise it (though ZOS could make them available only to people who purchased the adornments pack, so this excuse is poor). I was hoping to see proper arguments against this proposal.

Linaleah

Greystag wrote: »

Yeah I think I give up on this discussion. Next time you want to discuss politics make a new thread or take it to discord or something.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the original discussion. I don't think there's a reason against making jewellery unisex, since everything released since launch has been available to both sexes. The only reason I can think of is pure laziness and no way to monetise it (though ZOS could make them available only to people who purchased the adornments pack, so this excuse is poor). I was hoping to see proper arguments against this proposal.

there aren't really any reasonable arguments against making adornments etc unisex. that's why the only oposition you got was from you know.. usual suspects.

but i don't think its laziness as much as having limited resources and needing to prioritize other things. there is a great deal of difference between coding something to be unisex from the start and going back to change half a decade old code.

Bruccius

I don't really see a reason to be against it.

Like, I suppose you could complain that ''it would look stupid'', but then again, so do 90% of the player models wearing ridiculous costumes and mounts to stand out (no offense).

And it's not like you're obligated to wear these adornments on your character if you think they look stupid.

I vaguely recall a certain item in Skyrim which appeared like something a man would never wear... What was it again?

Oh yeah, the ''Wedding Wreath'', worn by Vittoria Vici.

max_only

@rexagamemnon

You comment is off topic. How do you not understand this?

The topic: adornments in Tamriel, video game land.

Your comment: real world Earth stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with adornments whatsoever.

You aren’t dense so you are doing it on purpose which means it is a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

Greystag

Linaleah wrote: »

but i don't think its laziness as much as having limited resources and needing to prioritize other things. there is a great deal of difference between coding something to be unisex from the start and going back to change half a decade old code.

Ah, I'm not a coder dude but I presumed it would be fairly easy (since I think only the code would need to be changed, and no models).

Riverlynn

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Gosh... how did this topic come to this?

...because a lot of people, including yourself, just...can't...let...things...go.


You know this thread is going to be pruned/locked.


I personally don't see the harm in male warriors wearing flowers in their hair. If a big guy is coming at me with a huge sword, the flower is going to be the least of my problems...

StormChaser3000

Riverlynn wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Gosh... how did this topic come to this?

...because a lot of people, including yourself, just...can't...let...things...go.


You know this thread is going to be pruned/locked.


I personally don't see the harm in male warriors wearing flowers in their hair. If a big guy is coming at me with a huge sword, the flower is going to be the least of my problems...

And yet you are here, keep adding fuel to the quarrel and not letting this thread die naturally. So who can't let it go?
Both sides are... [insert an adjective].

rexagamemnon

max_only wrote: »

@rexagamemnon

You comment is off topic. How do you not understand this?

The topic: adornments in Tamriel, video game land.

Your comment: real world Earth stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with adornments whatsoever.

You aren’t dense so you are doing it on purpose which means it is a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

Which comment was off topic, ive commented more than once on this thread?

Linaleah

Greystag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

but i don't think its laziness as much as having limited resources and needing to prioritize other things. there is a great deal of difference between coding something to be unisex from the start and going back to change half a decade old code.

Ah, I'm not a coder dude but I presumed it would be fairly easy (since I think only the code would need to be changed, and no models).

well that's the thing. models would need to be adjusted, since female and male models are not identical. even recently we had issues with outfits/hair that was supposed to be unisex, but had severe clipping/distortion issues on some of the models, sometimes mainly female ones, sometimes - male. and that's not even getting into different racial configurations. fixing new models that were supposed to be designed to fit everyone from ground up - sometimes would take ZoS months. now imagine having to go back to base game adornments that were NOT designed from ground up. its a bit more complicated then simply flipping a gender switch.

as much as I'd like for them to go back and fix all of these things... for the moment, I'll settle for all future models being 100% made for all. personaly

Wildberryjack

I don't understand why adornments were gender (female) locked in the first place when we can put dresses on male toons. I mean really

Jeremy

Greystag wrote: »

Female characters have a wide amount of adornments available, but male characters can't use them even if they buy the Adornments upgrade. Is there any particular reason for this? Every adornment that gets released fits both females and males, so I don't see why implementing this would imply a lot of work.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I believe the models are different - so some "clipping" might happen. But clipping happens all the time in the existing model combinations as well. So if that is the reason, I'm not sure it's a good one.

BWS2K

I didn't read this whole thread because it's making me cry inside but while I am 100% supportive of more cosmetic options and letting folks use whatever they've bought on as many of their characters as conceivably possible, I do want to point out that there are trolls in this game who would, upon learning of the option to have bearded women (for instance), immediately seek them out and harass them. I don't know how much like real life folks want ESO to emulate but it's an important point to consider. Happy Gaming!

Greystag

BWS2K wrote: »

I didn't read this whole thread because it's making me cry inside but while I am 100% supportive of more cosmetic options and letting folks use whatever they've bought on as many of their characters as conceivably possible, I do want to point out that there are trolls in this game who would, upon learning of the option to have bearded women (for instance), immediately seek them out and harass them. I don't know how much like real life folks want ESO to emulate but it's an important point to consider. Happy Gaming!

My main argument was for the addition of adornments, especially jewellery. Beards are a bit out of the question because as far as I know there are no cases of bearded women in the lore. Sorry if I worded that wrong.

And I understand what you mean when referencing trolls. My alt (who is a Khajiit Male and only exists for the purpose of getting all 1-50 rewards) wears a very pretty dress a friend gifted me. I have encountered a couple of people -mainly when I'm standing still, waiting for the Dungeon Queue- who whispered me and told me that a Male shouldn't wear dresses and more crap I didn't want to hear, let alone address. This is why I agree that some people would target Female characters wearing beards, and why I think making Jewellery and Beards unisex are two very different types of discussion.

BWS2K

Greystag wrote: »

BWS2K wrote: »

I didn't read this whole thread because it's making me cry inside but while I am 100% supportive of more cosmetic options and letting folks use whatever they've bought on as many of their characters as conceivably possible, I do want to point out that there are trolls in this game who would, upon learning of the option to have bearded women (for instance), immediately seek them out and harass them. I don't know how much like real life folks want ESO to emulate but it's an important point to consider. Happy Gaming!

My main argument was for the addition of adornments, especially jewellery. Beards are a bit out of the question because as far as I know there are no cases of bearded women in the lore. Sorry if I worded that wrong.

And I understand what you mean when referencing trolls. My alt (who is a Khajiit Male and only exists for the purpose of getting all 1-50 rewards) wears a very pretty dress a friend gifted me. I have encountered a couple of people -mainly when I'm standing still, waiting for the Dungeon Queue- who whispered me and told me that a Male shouldn't wear dresses and more crap I didn't want to hear, let alone address. This is why I agree that some people would target Female characters wearing beards, and why I think making Jewellery and Beards unisex are two very different types of discussion.

No worries, I hear ya. The discussion seemed to be leaning that way though and I just had concerns. I'd honestly love to hear from someone more than just a community person (like a modeler or coder, etc.) as to why these sorts of things are prohibited (like skins/body markings are, for instance). I totally agree about jewelry/adornments.

Saucy_Jack

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo about this topic is. Just change

USAGE
[ x ] Female Only

to

USAGE
[ ] Female Only

Hooray! Problem solved!

Greystag

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo about this topic is. Just change

USAGE
[ x ] Female Only

to

USAGE
[ ] Female Only

Hooray! Problem solved!

At first I suspected that it was just a boolean variable -or whatever the heck they're called- and the code could be easily changed but since my knowledge about programming isn't particularly extensive, I chose not to swell more on that theory.



EDIT: And on the bearded women topic:

Yes, women can have beards, mainly due to hormone imbalances and genetic mutations like Hypertrichosis, also known as "werewolf syndrome". The latter would also cause hair to grow in many other places around the body, so a perfect beard wouldn't really give off that look. This is out of the question, but since I believe there's been no cases of any of these in TESO (or TES in general) lore, talking whether or not it's possible for a woman to have a beard in real life isn't really the main point of the initial argument.

And yes, women generally grow facial hair akin to the one a prepubescent boy has. This hair is very thin but it can be easily seen by the naked eye, and by no means would be considered to be a "beard" by most people. The amount varies a lot depending on the woman.

So, taking this all into account:
-Even if ZOS said that hormone imbalances and genetic mutations exist in Nirn and work like the ones on Earth, there's the argument of them being an extremely rare condition, or at least rarer than a man grabbing a circlet and placing it on his head, it really shouldn't be available to everyone.
-None of the facial hair styles in the game really fit the "prepubescent boy style".

In conclusion, the most believable reason to see a female character with an actual beard in Nirn is that a sorcerer used a hex on her and thus a beard grew on her face.

Recremen

Greystag wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo about this topic is. Just change

USAGE
[ x ] Female Only

to

USAGE
[ ] Female Only

Hooray! Problem solved!

At first I suspected that it was just a boolean variable -or whatever the heck they're called- and the code could be easily changed but since my knowledge about programming isn't particularly extensive, I chose not to swell more on that theory.

Without detailed knowledge of the graphical tools they're using we really cannot make any claims about the ease or difficulty of these tasks, and anything we say is wild and baseless speculation. Here's some baseless speculation to start us off!

• What if the models for males and females of the various races are built on custom presets and the adornments would require additional contouring work that has not yet been done for both sexes?
• What if the models actually use a different set of incompatible attributes for certain feature hooks (like flowers in hair) and they'd have to write them over from scratch for the other sex?
• What if the various helmet and headgear models have scripted behavior for how they reshape the hair and adornment textures to fit smoothly underneath, and the sex-specific adornments simply don't have the reshaping work done for the opposite sex models, leading to vast clipping issues?

Really there's just so many things that can go wrong, it's quite unlikely to be a simple boolean value change.