PvP December 2018

heavier

technohic wrote: »

spin to win.

hello Lance Armstrong

Skander

I value skill in a game

Pressing 2 keys and spamming a third. isn't skill.

Derra

Skander wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

Then give any *** class an overpowered ability.

Everyone gets one or nobody gets one.

What i see is only stamina and maybe magsorc being competitive with each other.

And for your information: Draws are not bad. Draws are good. Two players with the same skill level are supposed to draw. If one of them wins becouse he has the cheese class with everything in it, it's not fun. It's moronic.

@Mojomonkeyman Magsorc being competetive in high MMR bgs - alongside heavy stam? Care to give some insight?

Atleast the people that i talk to about high mmr bgs all seem to imply that magsorc specifically (as a dd) isn´t one of the really competetive/op specs atm.

Skander

Derra wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

Then give any *** class an overpowered ability.

Everyone gets one or nobody gets one.

What i see is only stamina and maybe magsorc being competitive with each other.

And for your information: Draws are not bad. Draws are good. Two players with the same skill level are supposed to draw. If one of them wins becouse he has the cheese class with everything in it, it's not fun. It's moronic.

@Mojomonkeyman Magsorc being competetive in high MMR bgs - alongside heavy stam? Care to give some insight?

Atleast the people that i talk to about high mmr bgs all seem to imply that magsorc specifically (as a dd) isn´t one of the really competetive/op specs atm.

Magsorc has a lot of damage burst potential and he can steal pretty much every kill if used correctly.

Ultimate_Overlord

(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿) This is the Autism Police, You're coming with us, @heavier (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

Iskiab

The problem with pvp is the players.

Most people have never played an MMO pvp game and have no standard of comparison. Right now 90 percent of players spec for burst and cc. Their only tactic is to charge in as a group, dump their ultimates to kill as many as they can before getting wiped by the next group who charges in and uses the same tactic.

Plus ESO puts one strong ability in each guild skill line to force players to do it. The result is too much build homogeneity. This creates a pretty fair playing field since most people play similar specs but there’s still a small advantage for the good tanky classes.

The other issue is the balance between single target damage abilities and aoe abilities is jacked. Aoe abilities being used in single target rotations is stupid, but might be necessary given the player base. If ape damage was toned down to where it should be players would complain like crazy instead of learning how to assist. The game is setup to make pvping easy for non-pvpers.

Joy_Division

technohic wrote: »

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying

@Joy_Division I agree with you as far as the OP but the bolded is where I take issue. You rightfully said that there are only those few abilities that can kill good players; at least in a BG setting where you are not zerged down by mass numbers. I can see where we could justify these but it sucks that there are not other abilities and the meta has basically become turtle up, charge up ultimate, then bomb, bleed and spin to win. Theres always going to be a meta, but it just seems so limited

I can see why people are assuming that I'm "justifying" questionable skills, but it goes deeper than that and I do not think justify is the correct word.

How is the solution the OP and other people that whine about "cheese" -100% nerfs with nothing else - going to possibly improve the game? It won't. All it will do is remove the times when players of high experience or group coordination ever die (except gettting zerged down), which will 1000% lead to these same people next to complain about healing and "unkillable" tanks in PVP. This means the next Chapter ESO will get will be Morrowind 2.0. The game will not improve, it will just be more nerfs. We have nearly 4 years of trends to see how ZOS reacts and changes to their game as evidence that this will be the direction the game goes.

I am going to be critical of these such cries because they are just complaints and do not offer suggestions on how to improve the game going forward. They just want a future where they don't die to Spin2Win, sub assaults, and ulti bombs. If these people take the time to do something more than provide a death recap that they believe is self-evident, and instead put forth an alternative that is more than just nerfing skills that kill them, I will hit the agree button and direct it to Wrobel's attention the next meeting we have.

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Xvorg

Minno wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

My Cripple tooltip says 18k in 8 secs

My Soul harverst tooltip says 12k

So, is Cripple stronger that SH?

people can't read I guess. Or that a slow drain over time, only look bad when you see the final outcome. Like coming back home from vacation to find your sink was dripping into your cabinet; is it the sink's fault you didnt catch that drip early and planned ahead?

Same issue with bleeds/dots. Plug up that pressure by selecting a multitude of sets/mechanics built into the game. Or go back to playing COD 17.

Functional illiteracy... I think that's the academic name...

Xvorg

Joy_Division wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying

@Joy_Division I agree with you as far as the OP but the bolded is where I take issue. You rightfully said that there are only those few abilities that can kill good players; at least in a BG setting where you are not zerged down by mass numbers. I can see where we could justify these but it sucks that there are not other abilities and the meta has basically become turtle up, charge up ultimate, then bomb, bleed and spin to win. Theres always going to be a meta, but it just seems so limited

I can see why people are assuming that I'm "justifying" questionable skills, but it goes deeper than that and I do not think justify is the correct word.

How is the solution the OP and other people that whine about "cheese" -100% nerfs with nothing else - going to possibly improve the game? It won't. All it will do is remove the times when players of high experience or group coordination ever die (except gettting zerged down), which will 1000% lead to these same people next to complain about healing and "unkillable" tanks in PVP. This means the next Chapter ESO will get will be Morrowind 2.0. The game will not improve, it will just be more nerfs. We have nearly 4 years of trends to see how ZOS reacts and changes to their game as evidence that this will be the direction the game goes.

I am going to be critical of these such cries because they are just complaints and do not offer suggestions on how to improve the game going forward. They just want a future where they don't die to Spin2Win, sub assaults, and ulti bombs. If these people take the time to do something more than provide a death recap that they believe is self-evident, and instead put forth an alternative that is more than just nerfing skills that kill them, I will hit the agree button and direct it to Wrobel's attention the next meeting we have.

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

There has always been cheese, there will always be cheese.

I remember when the cheese was named Pulsar. Also when it was called Bombard, Wrecking blow, (old) Steelnado, Rapid Strikes, Flying Blade, Silver Shards, Camo Hunter, just to name a few which were not class dependant.

Each one of them was adressed at time. Some where quite a cheese (Camo the biggest ofender imho), others were OK, but people insisted and got the nerf hammer. A nerf hammer that in most of the cases killed the skill.

When people proposes a nerf without a suggestion, the developers take the easier route which is redo the skill, which in turn opens the door to a ton of bugs. Then they complain about performance.

I don't like the way Steelnado is working, but I don't think the solution is a nerf. Maybe a little tuning (less dmg, more stam cost), nothing more.

We all know what happened to cloak when people cryied about it. It took one year to make it viable again.

Reverb

Based on that recap without context, I’d say it was a quite unusual match, and not at all indicative of the state of December ‘18 state of pvp.

The key standout here is Northern Storm instead of Permafrost. The next takeaway is the lack of Dawnbreaker, Tornado or weapon enchant ticks. Or executes.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Not saying sorc is terrible - but skander is basically the only person who meantioned sorcs in the same breath as heavy stamina regarding their overall performance in battlegrounds.
Since i talk with some high mmr players occasionally this seems to be personal bias rather than actual reality.

I know the class is good in low/mid mmr due to the things you´ve mentioned.

Thogard

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Not saying sorc is terrible - but skander is basically the only person who meantioned sorcs in the same breath as heavy stamina regarding their overall performance in battlegrounds.
Since i talk with some high mmr players occasionally this seems to be personal bias rather than actual reality.

I know the class is good in low/mid mmr due to the things you´ve mentioned.

It’s good in high MMR too, as long as the sorc gets put on a mobile team. Mag sorc only really becomes a liability when it’s forced to play a “hold your ground” style of PvP, although I’d argue that those groups need the mag sorc the most since those groups are the most vulnerable to having their kills stolen.

That being said, it’s certainly not an easy class to play.

PhoenixGrey

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Not saying sorc is terrible - but skander is basically the only person who meantioned sorcs in the same breath as heavy stamina regarding their overall performance in battlegrounds.
Since i talk with some high mmr players occasionally this seems to be personal bias rather than actual reality.

I know the class is good in low/mid mmr due to the things you´ve mentioned.

It’s good in high MMR too, as long as the sorc gets put on a mobile team. Mag sorc only really becomes a liability when it’s forced to play a “hold your ground” style of PvP, although I’d argue that those groups need the mag sorc the most since those groups are the most vulnerable to having their kills stolen.

That being said, it’s certainly not an easy class to play.

The mag sorc is the most hard countered class in the game. If a premade wishes to render a sorc useless, they can do so without sacrificing much. You could go from a 6k+ score with no deaths in a high mmr BG to getting farmed repeatedly against the same bunch.

So i cannot agree sorc is any good in high MMR bg's.

Thogard

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Not saying sorc is terrible - but skander is basically the only person who meantioned sorcs in the same breath as heavy stamina regarding their overall performance in battlegrounds.
Since i talk with some high mmr players occasionally this seems to be personal bias rather than actual reality.

I know the class is good in low/mid mmr due to the things you´ve mentioned.

It’s good in high MMR too, as long as the sorc gets put on a mobile team. Mag sorc only really becomes a liability when it’s forced to play a “hold your ground” style of PvP, although I’d argue that those groups need the mag sorc the most since those groups are the most vulnerable to having their kills stolen.

That being said, it’s certainly not an easy class to play.

The mag sorc is the most hard countered class in the game. If a premade wishes to render a sorc useless, they can do so without sacrificing much. You could go from a 6k+ score with no deaths in a high mmr BG to getting farmed repeatedly against the same bunch.

So i cannot agree sorc is any good in high MMR bg's.

Only if you play it like a pre-murkmire mag sorc.

I did fine in high MMR matches on mine, but i play to kite and killsteal. I wouldn’t try to keep shields up and kill peeps in between shield spam. That playstyle is ded imo.

Derra

Thogard wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Derra I don't play BGs that often because I don't like the match-making system and would prefer 6v6 than 4v4v4, so maybe others will have more insight than me. They can survive without a pocket healer, I know Negate is a very strong group skill, and Endless Fury puts points on the scoreboard. I do see Wardens of both varieties as being the preferred spec though.

Not saying sorc is terrible - but skander is basically the only person who meantioned sorcs in the same breath as heavy stamina regarding their overall performance in battlegrounds.
Since i talk with some high mmr players occasionally this seems to be personal bias rather than actual reality.

I know the class is good in low/mid mmr due to the things you´ve mentioned.

It’s good in high MMR too, as long as the sorc gets put on a mobile team. Mag sorc only really becomes a liability when it’s forced to play a “hold your ground” style of PvP, although I’d argue that those groups need the mag sorc the most since those groups are the most vulnerable to having their kills stolen.

That being said, it’s certainly not an easy class to play.

The mag sorc is the most hard countered class in the game. If a premade wishes to render a sorc useless, they can do so without sacrificing much. You could go from a 6k+ score with no deaths in a high mmr BG to getting farmed repeatedly against the same bunch.

So i cannot agree sorc is any good in high MMR bg's.

Only if you play it like a pre-murkmire mag sorc.

I did fine in high MMR matches on mine, but i play to kite and killsteal. I wouldn’t try to keep shields up and kill peeps in between shield spam. That playstyle is ded imo.

which basically means sorc is ded for how many bg modes that heavily revolve around holding your ground or defending positions/teammates?

Sarousse

You should slot the PvP purge, even as a stam player. The meta has changed and people don't adapt.

Well at least for your first page screenshot.

Juhasow

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

You act like the broken part of the game is only on the offense side. It's well known that there are abilities and sets that overperform in offense but also in defense. Match that ends like the one You've linked is result of certain things overperforming in defense or fact that people built themselves to be tanks that are doing dmg or healbots that can outheal everything and I think those are separated issues from the one OP is talking about. OP just mentioned about smaller part of the bigger issue that needs to be dealt with.

Also You really want to tell me that without "Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc" match You've linked would end up differently possibly with 0/0/0 ? I dont think so.

Skander

Sarousse wrote: »

You should slot the PvP purge, even as a stam player. The meta has changed and people don't adapt.

Well at least for your first page screenshot.

sigh...

Mojomonkeyman

Derra wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

Then give any *** class an overpowered ability.

Everyone gets one or nobody gets one.

What i see is only stamina and maybe magsorc being competitive with each other.

And for your information: Draws are not bad. Draws are good. Two players with the same skill level are supposed to draw. If one of them wins becouse he has the cheese class with everything in it, it's not fun. It's moronic.

@Mojomonkeyman Magsorc being competetive in high MMR bgs - alongside heavy stam? Care to give some insight?

Atleast the people that i talk to about high mmr bgs all seem to imply that magsorc specifically (as a dd) isn´t one of the really competetive/op specs atm.

I'd say Magsorc is a mid-tier pick that's never terrible due to kill- and killstealpotential but is heavily handicapped in fights involving coordinated premades who run the two dominant grp setups (sturdy stam burst or standyourground mag). It is usually very challenging for the magsorc to find enough opportunities to make its burst potential count and not waste too many infight cds on repositioning/reshielding.

It also doesn't scale very well with itself in BGs. More than one magsorc is (imo) never a good idea. That being said, I'd still take a single stellar magsorc over a top-tier BG class played by a mediocre player any day of the week.

Another point to consider is that ESO BG grp comps are kinda underdeveloped, there is no real evolution or counterplay. In all those 2 years since BG release I have not met a single group in top mmr range that would actually try to specialize on mobile kill-stealing (as a counter to current metas) or optimized ultimate rotations (including magsorc negate drops which btw absolutely destroy the mojinbri style magicka groups). People just want to drop db's left and right, if that doesn't work, they come to the forums demanding buffs or complain ingame.

So, its not that magsorc has no place in top tier BGs but it has a harder time incorporating itself into current metas and people havent figured out yet (and maybe never will, cuz lazy community and everyone skilled plays multiple classes anyways) how to build a dominant group centering around magsorc qualities.

evoniee

equip furry, equip HA, use turtle 'tactics', build up ulti, set up the combo, ulti bomb with the discord group, finish with spin2win, profit

wonderful game :clap:

Joy_Division

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

You act like the broken part of the game is only on the offense side. It's well known that there are abilities and sets that overperform in offense but also in defense. Match that ends like the one You've linked is result of certain things overperforming in defense or fact that people built themselves to be tanks that are doing dmg or healbots that can outheal everything and I think those are separated issues from the one OP is talking about. OP just mentioned about smaller part of the bigger issue that needs to be dealt with.

Also You really want to tell me that without "Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc" match You've linked would end up differently possibly with 0/0/0 ? I dont think so.

No, the OP acts like the only part of the broken part of the game is on the offensive side. That's why the OP wants offensive "cheese" nerfed, more counterplay, etc., and thinks that in itself will improve the game. I most certainly do not feel that way.

And, yes, if we disallow the strongest or "cheesiest" offensive tools, nobody in that match would have died, with the possible exception of two people that have a habit of overextending themselves (and that probably would have been prevented had we allowed the Earthgore set, which is a crutch for people who make mistakes). Yes, defense is strong and that's precisely my point: there needs to also be offense that is also strong and triggers people otherwise good players in good groups won't die.

Thogard

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

Then give any *** class an overpowered ability.

Everyone gets one or nobody gets one.

What i see is only stamina and maybe magsorc being competitive with each other.

And for your information: Draws are not bad. Draws are good. Two players with the same skill level are supposed to draw. If one of them wins becouse he has the cheese class with everything in it, it's not fun. It's moronic.

@Mojomonkeyman Magsorc being competetive in high MMR bgs - alongside heavy stam? Care to give some insight?

Atleast the people that i talk to about high mmr bgs all seem to imply that magsorc specifically (as a dd) isn´t one of the really competetive/op specs atm.

I'd say Magsorc is a mid-tier pick that's never terrible due to kill- and killstealpotential but is heavily handicapped in fights involving coordinated premades who run the two dominant grp setups (sturdy stam burst or standyourground mag). It is usually very challenging for the magsorc to find enough opportunities to make its burst potential count and not waste too many infight cds on repositioning/reshielding.

It also doesn't scale very well with itself in BGs. More than one magsorc is (imo) never a good idea. That being said, I'd still take a single stellar magsorc over a top-tier BG class played by a mediocre player any day of the week.

Another point to consider is that ESO BG grp comps are kinda underdeveloped, there is no real evolution or counterplay. In all those 2 years since BG release I have not met a single group in top mmr range that would actually try to specialize on mobile kill-stealing (as a counter to current metas) or optimized ultimate rotations (including magsorc negate drops which btw absolutely destroy the mojinbri style magicka groups). People just want to drop db's left and right, if that doesn't work, they come to the forums demanding buffs or complain ingame.

So, its not that magsorc has no place in top tier BGs but it has a harder time incorporating itself into current metas and people havent figured out yet (and maybe never will, cuz lazy community and everyone skilled plays multiple classes anyways) how to build a dominant group centering around magsorc qualities.

There aren’t enough premades queueing on PC NA to warrant putting a premade together to beat them. I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing

O_LYKOS

Player using slashes is perhaps using a bleed build. Leap player is a tank therefore little damage.

Thats my guess at this.

heavier

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿) This is the Autism Police, You're coming with us, @heavier (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

TES is super autistic because they managed to take an already autisimal product (think arena, daggerfall, even some morrowind) and make 10x worse

also no bullying

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Player using slashes is perhaps using a bleed build. Leap player is a tank therefore little damage.

Thats my guess at this.

I thought bleeds countered tank?

Thogard wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

Then give any *** class an overpowered ability.

Everyone gets one or nobody gets one.

What i see is only stamina and maybe magsorc being competitive with each other.

And for your information: Draws are not bad. Draws are good. Two players with the same skill level are supposed to draw. If one of them wins becouse he has the cheese class with everything in it, it's not fun. It's moronic.

@Mojomonkeyman Magsorc being competetive in high MMR bgs - alongside heavy stam? Care to give some insight?

Atleast the people that i talk to about high mmr bgs all seem to imply that magsorc specifically (as a dd) isn´t one of the really competetive/op specs atm.

I'd say Magsorc is a mid-tier pick that's never terrible due to kill- and killstealpotential but is heavily handicapped in fights involving coordinated premades who run the two dominant grp setups (sturdy stam burst or standyourground mag). It is usually very challenging for the magsorc to find enough opportunities to make its burst potential count and not waste too many infight cds on repositioning/reshielding.

It also doesn't scale very well with itself in BGs. More than one magsorc is (imo) never a good idea. That being said, I'd still take a single stellar magsorc over a top-tier BG class played by a mediocre player any day of the week.

Another point to consider is that ESO BG grp comps are kinda underdeveloped, there is no real evolution or counterplay. In all those 2 years since BG release I have not met a single group in top mmr range that would actually try to specialize on mobile kill-stealing (as a counter to current metas) or optimized ultimate rotations (including magsorc negate drops which btw absolutely destroy the mojinbri style magicka groups). People just want to drop db's left and right, if that doesn't work, they come to the forums demanding buffs or complain ingame.

So, its not that magsorc has no place in top tier BGs but it has a harder time incorporating itself into current metas and people havent figured out yet (and maybe never will, cuz lazy community and everyone skilled plays multiple classes anyways) how to build a dominant group centering around magsorc qualities.

There aren’t enough premades queueing on PC NA to warrant putting a premade together to beat them. I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing

in serious pvp MMOs premades get a separate queue or they only pop in 20 v 20 raids

TERA just knew how to balance pvp, but it's too late for ESO devs to learn from TERA by playing because 1 they're mentally inflexible in their seniority and 2 TERA is dying

since I gotta plug my own buffs always:
I'm sustain build by all memes. in BG (a kind meat grinder pvpers frequent) I have just garbage sustain because 0 CP = garbage sustain for me. Refactor CP to 160 instead of zeroing it like it was somehow a mistake

Juhasow

Joy_Division wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

You act like the broken part of the game is only on the offense side. It's well known that there are abilities and sets that overperform in offense but also in defense. Match that ends like the one You've linked is result of certain things overperforming in defense or fact that people built themselves to be tanks that are doing dmg or healbots that can outheal everything and I think those are separated issues from the one OP is talking about. OP just mentioned about smaller part of the bigger issue that needs to be dealt with.

Also You really want to tell me that without "Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc" match You've linked would end up differently possibly with 0/0/0 ? I dont think so.

No, the OP acts like the only part of the broken part of the game is on the offensive side. That's why the OP wants offensive "cheese" nerfed, more counterplay, etc., and thinks that in itself will improve the game. I most certainly do not feel that way.

And, yes, if we disallow the strongest or "cheesiest" offensive tools, nobody in that match would have died, with the possible exception of two people that have a habit of overextending themselves (and that probably would have been prevented had we allowed the Earthgore set, which is a crutch for people who make mistakes). Yes, defense is strong and that's precisely my point: there needs to also be offense that is also strong and triggers people otherwise good players in good groups won't die.

Just to clarify I said what OP mentioned not how he was acting which is completly different thing and I agree he may slightly overexagurate like this would be the only balance issue game have.

I also agree that changing/nerfing just 1 part of the issue may bring even worse results. But You act like broken defense is fine because there is also broken offense and game is balanced because of that which I do not agree with. Personally I think that if we would diallow both the strongeest and "cheesiest" offense and defense , final score of that match would have more kills.

heavier

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't

OK, what do you want me to tell Wrobel in our next meeting?

Eric, you know the like only 5 or 6 skills in the game that can kill good players in BGs? Yeah people are mad because they are dying to them. Sub Assault is coutnerable, all you have to do is move, which you couldn't because it looks like you got stunned. You got CCed and thus were subjected to 2 ultimates and hit with multiple burst skills, you don't think that's a legit way of dying?

I know you can play, so you know damn well that if you're attacked by skills that are easy countered, you will counter them and you won't die. The amount of defense, healing, tankiness options available, even outside of busted gearsets like Earthgore, has made it such CC plus mutliple burst is pretty much the only shot someone on a high MMR team is going to die. You've gotten so used to laughing at the pitiful and uncoordinated attempts by inexperienced players trying to kill you that you're getting mad when you die to a coordinated uli bomb.

I played a high MMR last night. This is 15 minutes of deathmatch, no objectives to cap or relics to take, just 100% focus on killing other players. 105-105-60.



If ZOS nerfs all the "cheese" and other stuff people hate like Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc., such that you can survive when hit with multiple ultimates and multiple burst damage skills, the matches of the sort I was in will be 0-0-0. What will you do then with no death-recap to complain about on these forums? Scream to nerf "healers," right?

You act like the broken part of the game is only on the offense side. It's well known that there are abilities and sets that overperform in offense but also in defense. Match that ends like the one You've linked is result of certain things overperforming in defense or fact that people built themselves to be tanks that are doing dmg or healbots that can outheal everything and I think those are separated issues from the one OP is talking about. OP just mentioned about smaller part of the bigger issue that needs to be dealt with.

Also You really want to tell me that without "Sub Assault, Spin2Win, snares, etc" match You've linked would end up differently possibly with 0/0/0 ? I dont think so.

No, the OP acts like the only part of the broken part of the game is on the offensive side. That's why the OP wants offensive "cheese" nerfed, more counterplay, etc., and thinks that in itself will improve the game. I most certainly do not feel that way.

And, yes, if we disallow the strongest or "cheesiest" offensive tools, nobody in that match would have died, with the possible exception of two people that have a habit of overextending themselves (and that probably would have been prevented had we allowed the Earthgore set, which is a crutch for people who make mistakes). Yes, defense is strong and that's precisely my point: there needs to also be offense that is also strong and triggers people otherwise good players in good groups won't die.

earthgore is hilarious. I laughed the first time I saw it ingame and fantasized about a party built around it that would have it 100% uptime.

Juhasow wrote: »

Just to clarify I said what OP mentioned not how he was acting which is completly different thing and I agree he may slightly overexagurate like this would be the only balance issue game have.

I also agree that changing/nerfing just 1 part of the issue may bring even worse results. But You act like broken defense is fine because there is also broken offense and game is balanced because of that which I do not agree with. Personally I think that if we would diallow both the strongeest and "cheesiest" offense and defense , final score of that match would have more kills.

nerfing hurts egos and completely disallowing thins is a sure way to enrage playerbase

but certainly some aspects need the edge taken off. tanks as tanks must be slower in some manner. dps must require more intention to apply. sometimes it feels like an accident that I do so much damage on certain players.

I don't even get to the point of using the execute I just spam dizzying swing while they take massive damages...the only thoughts I have are "this shouldn't be this way"
"I'm pressing one button repeatedly, the animation doesn't even show my sword hit them, as they are trying escape at the edge of my range"
"they aren't even prone, how is this possible to decimate so readily"

pzschrek

Thogard wrote: »

There aren’t enough premades queueing on PC NA to warrant putting a premade together to beat them.

Jayelf seems to disagree

Leeched

LMFAO
OP, you are that dude who is always raging in group chat at his team mates and also hate whipering enemy teams.
Maybe you should stop PvPing when everything triggers you that much

heavier

why do guys like to use the word trigger so much?

digitallego

heavier wrote: »

why do guys like to use the word trigger so much?

Because they are not smart persons